Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Interesting article from a dividend perspective. I think the article underestimates Apple. Just like Microsoft sometimes they need a little time to catch up. I have no doubt with all the cash Apple has that they will develop a stellar AI. Considering the failure that is Siri I am sure Apple doesn't want to build up peoples expectations and let them down. When they have everything ready then they will unleash the marketing campaign.

At the moment the entire line does look a little weak. M3 is great but if you are on M1 or above I don't see as huge an adoption rate for new buyers as before. iPhones at the moment don't have anything that sets them apart besides iOS. They are very nice bar phones just like Android phones. But Android has foldable phones and other innovative niche features like gaming phones and camera phones, etc. Google is all over AI and so is Samsung and Microsoft. But I do believe if and when Apple release their version it will be better at least at first.

If Apple does AI better than anyone else with even better photo editing features and more realistic generative AI and adds call screening and a actually smart Siri like interface then we could have people get excited about iPhone again. I know if what I just said were true I would be a LOT more tempted to buy an iPhone because once you get used to a truly smart phone it is hard to go back.
 
how about just don’t read this thread if you don’t like it?
Probably soon as I assume the opinions will just continue to repeat from here. 😄

Rather than trying to gatekeep who gets to say what
I never tried to silence anyone. My question of why these threads exist was somewhat rhetorical but mostly sincere. On top of that, I think, venting is helpful (even mandatory sometimes) plus can bring insight. On that note, I have a still unresolved Windows problem that I could have brought up before now to make a case that Windows is horrible and no one should use it. During the pandemic, I figured I’d try going back to PC gaming. I downloaded the Xbox app for PC (as I have Game Pass Ultimate) and happily played some titles, although, was very frustrated by the separate game stores (e.g., Epic) — which, like Apple, is forced into one, far better experience on console. However, when I tried multiplayer (i.e., voice chat), it was a no go. More specifically, I couldn’t get the mic volume to go beyond 25%, and that was while yelling. I tried driver/OS/app updates, driver downgrades, multiple headsets (including Microsoft’s wired gaming) as well as standalone microphones, adjusting gain and other OS level audio settings, toggling every switch and slider in the Xbox Game Bar, checked BIOS and other firmware, and even a fresh Windows install. I could use another device to chat, but that felt like an unnecessary and ridiculous bypass. Eventually, I threw my hands up and just waited until I could purchase a Series X. Why not use this as a complaint? I haven’t seen evidence it’s a common problem, nor do I think it would be fair to assume/project. I made my choice and it (mostly) worked out — sadly, I haven’t sold that PC yet, accepting the losses.

So, go ahead, continue to discuss — I mean that sincerely. But as I was saying, sharing your opinions probably won’t do much in itself to help yourselves though maybe others. And on that, I would have respected more of a how-to format, as that would have felt more productive, rather than storytelling time as @Technerd108 doesn’t seem to be seeking suggestions — but I could have misread/misinterpreted.

P.S.

You aren't required to read this subforum. That is what it is for as it is entitled, "Alternatives to Mac Hardware." It's simple, you can exclude it from the posts you receive and then you don't need to see these at all.

And the rest of us who wish to discuss these and other issues, can. :)
I must be getting old.. Who’s trying to silence who?
😆🤦‍♂️

Anyway… I guess this does appear to be the proper moment to say, adieu!
 
Probably soon as I assume the opinions will just continue to repeat from here. 😄


I never tried to silence anyone. My question of why these threads exist was somewhat rhetorical but mostly sincere. On top of that, I think, venting is helpful (even mandatory sometimes) plus can bring insight. On that note, I have a still unresolved Windows problem that I could have brought up before now to make a case that Windows is horrible and no one should use it. During the pandemic, I figured I’d try going back to PC gaming. I downloaded the Xbox app for PC (as I have Game Pass Ultimate) and happily played some titles, although, was very frustrated by the separate game stores (e.g., Epic) — which, like Apple, is forced into one, far better experience on console. However, when I tried multiplayer (i.e., voice chat), it was a no go. More specifically, I couldn’t get the mic volume to go beyond 25%, and that was while yelling. I tried driver/OS/app updates, driver downgrades, multiple headsets (including Microsoft’s wired gaming) as well as standalone microphones, adjusting gain and other OS level audio settings, toggling every switch and slider in the Xbox Game Bar, checked BIOS and other firmware, and even a fresh Windows install. I could use another device to chat, but that felt like an unnecessary and ridiculous bypass. Eventually, I threw my hands up and just waited until I could purchase a Series X. Why not use this as a complaint? I haven’t seen evidence it’s a common problem, nor do I think it would be fair to assume/project. I made my choice and it (mostly) worked out — sadly, I haven’t sold that PC yet, accepting the losses.

So, go ahead, continue to discuss — I mean that sincerely. But as I was saying, sharing your opinions probably won’t do much in itself to help yourselves though maybe others. And on that, I would have respected more of a how-to format, as that would have felt more productive, rather than storytelling time as @Technerd108 doesn’t seem to be seeking suggestions — but I could have misread/misinterpreted.

P.S.


I must be getting old.. Who’s trying to silence who?
😆🤦‍♂️

Anyway… I guess this does appear to be the proper moment to say, adieu!
Sometimes it is hard to see one's own bias.

You have projected some of your feelings onto others.

Your experience with one gaming rig is not indicative of most users experience otherwise gaming would not be so popular on Windows and Windows laptops. It is a huge market and growing every year.

Everyone has their own approach to sharing and I am sorry that my story didn't resonate with you. To understand my motivation through assumption is not always a good idea. I always assume I have no idea why someone does something and if I think I know for sure I could easily be wrong. People are complex.

And please do share. If you would have shared when you had your issue I have a suspicion someone could have helped. For as many problems as there may be on Windows there are solutions. If that happened to me I would have returned it immediately and gotten something else and tried several laptops until I found one that met my needs. I would not judge all Apple devices based on a bad experience with one and I have had a few. I keep trying and I learn to see if I can solve the problem on my own.

Back when I first installed Linux on a laptop was SuseLinux 9 I think it was and I bought a disc at Best Buy for $100 or so. I couldn't even get wifi going. Searched forums, downloaded a bunch of stuff and nothing worked. It was a nightmare. I had completely wiped Windows and had to figure out how to get it back back in the DSL days downloading 700mb could take 40 minutes if it didn't time out. I could have said that was it with Linux.

I then tried dual booting so I would always have a working system. Took about a year of trying different Linux distros until I found Mepis Linux and everything worked, sound, direct x, wifi, it all worked!!! Since then I have learned a lot about Linux and can install Slackware or Debian on a laptop no problem. But it took a lot of headache for a while. Same with Apple. I originally used DOS clones, then Windows 95, 98 and ......so on. Started using Macs with OSx. They were very expensive for me at the time. A mouse with only one button?? So many things but I didn't stop. I kept learning until I understood MacOS enough that I was comfortable in it. The same can be said for any OS.

I think in the next 5 years gaming pc's are going to get on MacBook level battery life but the performance of Nvidia/AMD and Intel Arc on graphics and cpu performance above M series. Apple still has a big lead on process so they may never catch up on process but with the big little architecture and continued improvement in process Intel and AMD and Qualcomm could really shake things up. It is an exciting time in the PC market to see what evolve with ARM. If Microsoft gets serios on ARM it could really leapfrog the platform. We shall see.....
 
I still use that archaic iPhone as my main phone, iPhone 6s 128 GB. Do I need a better phone? No, I do not think so.
I do have an iPhone 7+ 256 GB for photos, and an anamorphic lens as well.

edit: I think 16 GB should be minimum on a mac, in 2024
More power you lol.

I think 8 gb Is fine for And 16 for mbp base
 
Probably soon as I assume the opinions will just continue to repeat from here. 😄


I never tried to silence anyone. My question of why these threads exist was somewhat rhetorical but mostly sincere. On top of that, I think, venting is helpful (even mandatory sometimes) plus can bring insight. On that note, I have a still unresolved Windows problem that I could have brought up before now to make a case that Windows is horrible and no one should use it. During the pandemic, I figured I’d try going back to PC gaming. I downloaded the Xbox app for PC (as I have Game Pass Ultimate) and happily played some titles, although, was very frustrated by the separate game stores (e.g., Epic) — which, like Apple, is forced into one, far better experience on console. However, when I tried multiplayer (i.e., voice chat), it was a no go. More specifically, I couldn’t get the mic volume to go beyond 25%, and that was while yelling. I tried driver/OS/app updates, driver downgrades, multiple headsets (including Microsoft’s wired gaming) as well as standalone microphones, adjusting gain and other OS level audio settings, toggling every switch and slider in the Xbox Game Bar, checked BIOS and other firmware, and even a fresh Windows install. I could use another device to chat, but that felt like an unnecessary and ridiculous bypass. Eventually, I threw my hands up and just waited until I could purchase a Series X. Why not use this as a complaint? I haven’t seen evidence it’s a common problem, nor do I think it would be fair to assume/project. I made my choice and it (mostly) worked out — sadly, I haven’t sold that PC yet, accepting the losses.

So, go ahead, continue to discuss — I mean that sincerely. But as I was saying, sharing your opinions probably won’t do much in itself to help yourselves though maybe others. And on that, I would have respected more of a how-to format, as that would have felt more productive, rather than storytelling time as @Technerd108 doesn’t seem to be seeking suggestions — but I could have misread/misinterpreted.

P.S.


I must be getting old.. Who’s trying to silence who?
😆🤦‍♂️

Anyway… I guess this does appear to be the proper moment to say, adieu!
You are, of course, free to do as you wish. I was just responding to you saying the following:

In other words, shouldn’t your complaints/efforts be directed to Microsoft, Google, etc, providing feedback on how to refine their OS’s, etc (i.e., continue progress on the product(s) you perceive as already superior)? And leave those of us who prefer the Apple ecosystem to do the same.
 
Apple has been on a path of development really since Steve returned, from the G days, with Motorola, then the Intel era, and now Apple is on the M/Silicon path, when Apple decided to go on the M/Silicon, they had to decide on which direction, BTO or Post Purchase Upgrade, it seems from the various comments that System on a chip does not allow for post purchase upgrading...

That may be true, but does it have to be going forward? Maybe as a transition period that makes sense, I have used the term immature engineering, Apple+Intel reached Mature Engineering when you could upgrade post purchase, for some reason Apple chose to abandon this philosophy in the direction of BTO.

You have a laptop, expensive, you maybe fortunate to be able to BTO it maxxed spec, yay, great, having the extra power is useful.. Other regions where tech is a lot more expensive, 2 or 4 times as much, we do not have this option to BTO, it is just not an option...

A wise CEO would realize this, see the potential of extra income by having a 2nd line of devices, the MEA range for example, SEA, Middle East Africa, and South East Asia/America, for example covering a huge market...

Apple like Samsung is a global brand, the more markets you are active in, the better, so it makes sense to have 2 lines of manufacturing, one for the US market, and one for the international market..

BTO maybe more popular in the US through the financing offered by the brand itself, and PPU, post purchase upgrading as financing is not possible through the brand itself, as the brand itself is not present in the market, represented through agency, 3rd party resellers, and grey/parallel import.

I have had so many phones, and only 1 iphone, gen 1 when it was launched, and the iphone was not useful when launched for the circumstance I needed a phone for, the cheaper Motorola/Alcatel/Nokia did a better job...

Apple has not been a great tool even in March 2024 when it comes to phones..Lacks the airdrop/bluetooth support that my sammy does, ok, this is for security reasons, I get that...

What I don't get, Apple is prescribing/dictating, how we work, let me take the risk, it is my risk to take, let the IT professionals within the employ of the company sort out the security internally...

Apple needs to take a step back, yes I can understand why they are paranoid, but that is just the point, the paranoia is too much...

The whole SOC, a step too far in the wrong direction, I can understand SOC on a Macbook Air, which you could say was a direct replacement for the plastic Macbook, when first launched... The Air was designed for a certain user in mind...

The "Pro"fessional laptop should be professional in it's design, large multi national corporations spend money on buying new tech, and have extremely well trained staff in house that maintain the network for that corporate, from the software, through the hardware and malware/virus, that is the job, you have folks with soldering irons and microscopes than can do the repair as well as, or if not better than the hack in the back of an istore in NYC...

As a user, you get used to a certain laptop, you get promoted, your laptop might benefit from an upgrade, it makes sense from a financial point, called amortaziation, that laptops become non viable after a period, usually 5 years, but have some value if upgraded, the upgrades could be a legit business expense, we call this "Apple Tax" you pay the man, he does the upgrade...Yay.

Apple should have chosen a better path of development, or change direction, or carry on with the path they are on...

It is impossible to know 6 months from now what you will need, software changes, hardware changes, your needs change...

It is like a house, you need a house to live in, you can only buy what the developer has built, it comes fully furnished, how much is up to you, you might be only able to afford a 1 bed/1 bath/on street parking, the only things you can bring to the house, clothes and very limited amount of food as you have a tiny fridge, you cannot install any devices, not even a lamp, what the house comes with, you are stuck with... A single bed, a tiny chest of drawers, 1 chair to sit in, the only tv is the laptop, 13 inch screen...

No one would buy a house like this, that is insane... But that is what the developer built, you have no option, you need a house.. Or you could buy a house without furniture, or reoplace as you need.. Maybe add a pool, a "wing" for a garage, grandparents residence.. Which would you choose???
 
Which would you choose???
I took advantage of this situation. And purchased a Mac Pro 7.1 at a very low price, a few months before Apple presented the 2023 AS version. As everyone knew the next one would not be an Intel version.
I have upgraded it, step by step this past year. My last upgrade was the Radeon Pro W6800x Duo card. But I have not installed it yet.
I did not hope I would be able to afford this so soon. If Apple had continued the Intel line, I am sure I would have had to wait at least 3-4 years longer, for it to drop so drastically in resale value.

The only Apple product I have with the new M-series, is my two iPad Pro 12.9" M1.

But I also see the issue with the current macs. If the upgrades were more reasonable in cost. I believe Apple would sell way more units. But I do not know that for a fact. So perhaps Apple knows better, to balance production with price?

On the PC side, there has been a shortage of GPUs, with increased prices as well. So it's not all rosy on that side either

edit: I run macOS Monterey and Windows 10 on the Mac Pro
 
Last edited:
I just took a look, the istore.co.za which is the local store here in South Africa, does not allow for RAM selection, the US store in the USA, for online purchase does...

$1000 for RAM is just criminal, how much of that is profit? 90%? 80%??
Screen Shot 2024-03-17 at 08.03.25.png


Please could someone explain the math here, it is not mathing for me... 64x2=128 [200x2=400] so how does Apple go from 64 to 128 from $200 to $1000, that is 5 times $200...]
Yet 48 is listed as default...48GB of RAM, I would be over the moon with just 32, up from 8...

The point is, Apple made a bad decision, I cannot afford R59 999 for a fully specced, well the max spec version available here for the MacBook Pro | Apple M2 Pro / Max according to the https://www.istore.co.za/macbook-pro-apple-m2-pro-max local website here, and for reference, that is about a year rent for a decent apartment [1 bed/bath/car port]
 
48 GB + 16 GB at $200 = 64 GB.
64 GB / 16 GB = 4
4x $200 = $ 1000

that is about a year rent for a decent apartment [1 bed/bath/car port]
We can not compare and claim that Apple is targeting unrealistic prices. Just because we can not afford the top specs.

On the other hand. I would believe that Apple's low power consumption and long lasting batteries, are a boon even for people living in less rich economies.
I don't know how it is in your country. But for me the dollar has almost doubled in value in 10 years.
10 years ago $1 was 6 Nok, today $1 is 10.61 Nok.
That is also something I have to remember, when I look at cost today

Screenshot 2024-03-17 at 07.29.12.png
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Technerd108
48 GB + 16 GB at $200 = 64 GB.
64 GB / 16 GB = 4
4x $200 = $ 1000

Please explain the math, it is not mathing, there is a problem with the logic...
128GB for $1000, what I mean is, what size per "stick" of RAM?

How does Apple get the 128GB, 2x64? 32x4? One assumes at least 4 RAM slots.. for the 32x4, or is 128x1? So then how does Apple get to 48 as the default? 32+16 or 32+8+8???

Something is not right..
 
48 GB + 16 GB at $200 = 64 GB.
64 GB / 16 GB = 4
4x $200 = $ 1000

Please explain the math, it is not mathing, there is a problem with the logic...
128GB for $1000, what I mean is, what size per "stick" of RAM?

How does Apple get the 128GB, 2x64? 32x4? One assumes at least 4 RAM slots.. for the 32x4, or is 128x1? So then how does Apple get to 48 as the default? 32+16 or 32+8+8???

Something is not right..
16 GB is $200
Every step up is multiplied by another $200
So 48 GB includes $600

In this case. The SoC probably has three memory modules with 16 GB each, as a base config
 
64 is $200... 2 x would be 400,
but 128 is $1000, 5 x as much as 64...

The logic is so bad, my head hurts.. Where do you get 16? 48+16? Or is Apple doing the ol ZX speccy and disabling half the chip off a 128 stick?
 
64 is $200... 2 x would be 400,
but 128 is $1000, 5 x as much as 64...

The logic is so bad, my head hurts.. Where do you get 16? 48+16? Or is Apple doing the ol ZX speccy and disabling half the chip off a 128 stick?
Look at this photo
There are 4 memory modules around the M2 Pro Max
That is why it is called System on Chip (SoC)

th-2485380850.jpeg
 
OK, then how is the RAM configured? How is it 48/64/128?
So it would make sense to do like car companies do, include the same harness wiring, but blank out the switches on the versions for the peasant class, but have the buttons on the super wealthy class..

I cannot see how Apple would get to 48, 16+16+16+0 for 4 slots or 8+8+32+0? Use 4 slots, 3, 2? 1? What??
 
I cannot see how Apple would get to 48, 16+16+16+0 for 4 slots or 8+8+32+0? Use 4 slots, 3, 2? 1? What??
3 memory modules with 16 GB, 48 GB
4 memory modules with 16 GB, 64 GB
4 memory modules with 32 GB, 128 GB

It might be some chips have a faulty memory module, so it is sold with 3 functioning. But that is only my guess
 
Last edited:
That makes no sense at all, the logic fails at 16GB, beyond that it is just not logical, why leave slots empty? You have not made any logical reasoning at all, nothing is making any sense...

If Apple sell laptops with empty slots, in this case, the base is 48GB, why not allow for the installing of up to 128 later? That is why it does not make sense, 4 slots, as shown, 2 occupied, and forever will remain, upgrading cannot be done, so which means that the SOC does not come with 4 slots, it comes with 1 slot, 48GG, or 64GB or 128GB, this would explain why there is no 96GB version.. Or OR, Apple is dumbing down a 128GB to 64..

Something is not right...
 
If the SOC comes pre-built, with the amount of RAM you select at purchase, then how hard could it be to divorce the SOC from the motherboard and replace it with a SOC of a larger capacity RAM?

It cannot, thus and therefor the SOC was a bad design, it was and will forever be a bad design, designed according to philosophy and not mature engineering...

Yes, it is a great design, but a bad design, it has not been explained how the RAM is configured, with respect to open/vacant slots, and that would not be a good idea, you should populate every slot, if not allow for post purchase population..

That is the point, there is a design philosophy conflict here, the SOC is a great design for something like the Air, in which you want a 1 device does it all, but it fails in the design in the Pro version, in which the philosophy should be upgrade at will, replace what breaks, as corporations have the tools, the budgets, the staff to handle this.

That is the point I and others are making, this whole thread of 18 pages/445 posts basically is about how there is a problem, a one SOC fits all feet approach, never works, not in shoes, underwear or SOC's for laptops..

Apple is extremely communist in the design by doing the one SOC for all.. Very Lada.. very Trabant..
 
  • Haha
Reactions: millerj123
Sometimes it is hard to see one's own bias.

You have projected some of your feelings onto others.

This is what I always return to on these forums. Don't get me wrong; everyone has a view, and I largely respect every individual's right to have one, whatever it is.

But you can see two types of people in discussions like this one: those who are defensive regarding criticism of Apple and tech enthusiasts.

For the most part, the contributors to this thread are tech enthusiasts—those who see benefit in all tech, regardless of who it is—Apple, Microsoft, Dell, Samsung, and so on. The discussion shows that we have all used Apple, Windows or Android devices. Not just once 10 years ago, and didn't like them. Or worse, have never used them.

Then you have others who slide into the thread telling us to vote with our wallets and leave Apple, but that's it—not much more. Useful, no, not really.

We all have our own biases, of course. But it's still a more balanced discussion amongst those who don't have a single bias where only Apple is right. These are the threads I visit MR for.
 
I am trying to understand how and why Apple did, and the confusing products, Apple was for a long time the leader, then it all went a but in the toilet, loose...a stinky horrible brown mess, that leaves a stain...Ugly..

The last few posts shows a serious issue, why.what is the whole update costs about, is the M SOC built and installed according to what your order, leaving slots unfilled, why?

For me 2 laptops, 1 SOC is BTO, as shown above, it comes as you want, called the Air
The other is Pro, 15/16/19 inch screens, that has loads of ports, a different SOC that allows for post purchase upgrading, it can be done, it is matter of choosing to do this...

Let those folks build the device up over time, I would love to do this, no question, give the consumer options, and don't tell me how to run my network, let me decide what is best for me..

Phones should have at least 1 SD card/Apple version thereof, on iphones, for just in case..
 
  • Haha
Reactions: dominiongamma
For the most part, the contributors to this thread are tech enthusiasts—those who see benefit in all tech, regardless of who it is—Apple, Microsoft, Dell, Samsung, and so on. The discussion shows that we have all used Apple, Windows or Android devices. Not just once 10 years ago, and didn't like them. Or worse, have never used them.
Most people here enjoy tech, and are not so blinded by a given logo. Apple has advantages, and disadvantages. Dell, HP, Razer, Samsung, Microsoft have different pluses and minuses

I do enjoy tinkering and playing with technology, I'm currently, learning 3d printing, because, why not
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.