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Bye, Bye for now Apple, it has been fun!
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Never underestimate the power of the RDF
It can move mountains*
*moving most mountains requires only 4GB RAM thanks to Apple "Amazeballs" Silicon
Once it becomes necessary to entirely misrepresent the point you're arguing with, the argument you make becomes just silly.
10/10 for sarcasm though!
Apple cannot predict who use the laptops, that is foolish, so it would be mature engineering to allow for growth, 2nd issue it renders the whole "green" eco friendly mute, as well in order to go from 8 to 16/32GB you have destroy or not use, or create e-waste of a laptop, there is no reason laptops could not have the option for upgrading post purchase...
Laptops/desktops can run for up to 20 yrs, we have 3 mac pro laptops from the 32bit era, they still work well, for the jobs they do, we upgraded the RAM, to the max, but being 32bit, each app can only use 2GB RAM...
I find my 2020 MacBook Air limited when it comes to file conversions, running compressor really pushes the laptop hard.. Had the M1 Macbook Pro allowed for upgrades for the RAM, I would have bought that, but seeing as it is functionally for me the very same as an Air, but only more expensive, I felt it was more economical to buy the Air..
I would have upgraded over the last 4 years, I could not, Apple lost out, that to me is the bigger issue, why not at least try???
Laptops/desktops can run for up to 20 yrs, we have 3 mac pro laptops from the 32bit era, they still work well, for the jobs they do, we upgraded the RAM, to the max, but being 32bit, each app can only use 2GB RAM...
I find my 2020 MacBook Air limited when it comes to file conversions, running compressor really pushes the laptop hard.. Had the M1 Macbook Pro allowed for upgrades for the RAM, I would have bought that, but seeing as it is functionally for me the very same as an Air, but only more expensive, I felt it was more economical to buy the Air..
I would have upgraded over the last 4 years, I could not, Apple lost out, that to me is the bigger issue, why not at least try???
I agree with you @JustinePaula
In this day and age of standard connections that don't inhibit size or speed at all, the expectation should be some amount of repair ability and upgrade ability, by design and by default, on computers.
This feels particularly true when we have a company like Apple that is so image conscious that they buy carbon offsets and "plant trees" ...
All nice stuff, but how about you design the devices to be serviceable and thus have longer functional life spans!?
That would actually be useful
In this day and age of standard connections that don't inhibit size or speed at all, the expectation should be some amount of repair ability and upgrade ability, by design and by default, on computers.
This feels particularly true when we have a company like Apple that is so image conscious that they buy carbon offsets and "plant trees" ...
All nice stuff, but how about you design the devices to be serviceable and thus have longer functional life spans!?
That would actually be useful
Thanks @turbineseaplane
The joy I felt when I upgraded my 1st macbook pro, it was such a wonderful feeling seeing the RAM increase, I felt a true professional, then Apple went all stupid, and took this away, and never explained why, but then rabbits on and on forever about the carbon offsets and how they are doing this and that..
But the laptops need RAM, especially in 64bit, I cannot tell you how much I would have updated both the 2013 and the 2020 mac laptops, and bought ipads, and powerbanks, Apple give me a reason to spend my money, right now you are making the case you hate me, you don't want my money...
Apple really has lost the plot.. How many laptops go unsold, destroyed/scrapped because they are just too expensive.. But had they cost 2/3rd of what they do, maybe more folks would buy, the air is what it is, the pro update viable. Why not? Seems so obvious the sell more laptops if you charge less, or sell fewer laptops for more money.. Maybe selling fewer laptops for more money makes sense.. Would love a lesson on how that makes sense..
The joy I felt when I upgraded my 1st macbook pro, it was such a wonderful feeling seeing the RAM increase, I felt a true professional, then Apple went all stupid, and took this away, and never explained why, but then rabbits on and on forever about the carbon offsets and how they are doing this and that..
But the laptops need RAM, especially in 64bit, I cannot tell you how much I would have updated both the 2013 and the 2020 mac laptops, and bought ipads, and powerbanks, Apple give me a reason to spend my money, right now you are making the case you hate me, you don't want my money...
Apple really has lost the plot.. How many laptops go unsold, destroyed/scrapped because they are just too expensive.. But had they cost 2/3rd of what they do, maybe more folks would buy, the air is what it is, the pro update viable. Why not? Seems so obvious the sell more laptops if you charge less, or sell fewer laptops for more money.. Maybe selling fewer laptops for more money makes sense.. Would love a lesson on how that makes sense..
I personally can live with the MBA and even the Mac Mini as devices that aren't upgradeable. I know what I need and what will last me years, so I do not have to worry much about upgrading them post-purchase. They are both devices for the masses to not worry about upgrading.
But the MBP, Mac Studio and iMacs, no, at least come up with a design that allows more RAM to be added to what is on the chip if not a design that splits the CPU and RAM back out entirely to allow slots for RAM and SSD to be upgraded.
Never going to happen, of course.
But the MBP, Mac Studio and iMacs, no, at least come up with a design that allows more RAM to be added to what is on the chip if not a design that splits the CPU and RAM back out entirely to allow slots for RAM and SSD to be upgraded.
Never going to happen, of course.
This is nonsense. For any manufacturer to produce anything with a hope of staying in business, they have to predict the market and what their customers will want, need, and buy.
Also, given Apple in this instance don't just control every single aspect of the hardware, but also every single aspect of the operating system that runs on the hardware, it's a bit of a stretch to wonder who else but they would actually know where they're going with it and why.
Being an armchair expert is actually easy. Running a multinational business with a long history of success in a fast moving environment is not.
On edit: One other factor, as demonstrated by @turbineseaplane and the 2015 MBP so loving described elsewhere, is that today's computers don't just stop and fall apart when they get outdated. There are many, many examples of systems even older than that, even more outdated and RAM limited, which are still in use and being enjoyed today. Somehow, a 2024 MBA isn't destined for that for reasons not a single person can explain.
Well, to be fair though, I'm running an old OS (on purpose and which gets harder and harder to do with how Apple does things), and if I weren't, one would likely only be using this device as a Mac with OCLP (for staying on current OSes), which I don't think is possible with ASi.
Also, I'm using an aftermarket NVMe stick which nearly doubled the speed (not possible with ASi) ... and this MBP came default with 16GB RAM-- 9 years ago!
The longevity situation with ASi I think is going to look a lot different than it could, if Apple had designed things a little differently.
On storage at least, for me, all the devices should be using socketed NVMe at this point
There is zero advantage to not doing so -- it's all downside from the consumer side
Maybe. Still appreciate the long post. But do you know why I feel like you will return to Apple? Because you care to write such a long post here while all your devices are either Androids or Windows.
Yes, I run old OS versions too, very much by choice for much the same reason you do. And yes, internet-wise this gets harder and harder but that's not much to do with Apple. As much as they the bogeyman of many macruqmor member's nightmares, they don't make the internet, and nor are they responsible for the increasing layers of security and protocols involved in it.
That said, there are inventive people who even today do produce great software for systems going back well before your MBP so that it can still be productively used. That Apple doesn't is only evidence that they aren't the sole solution to the problem.
I actually use a few old(er) systems, sometimes from necessity. Most date from times when 16Gb was not even a dream let alone an option. They still work. True, my G4 'sunflower' iMac with 1.25 Gb RAM is rather limited in what it can do on the internet, though it can play quite happily on macrumors, that only limits what it might be able to do in the future.
Sure, your NVMe upgrade gave you better performance and an M-whatever Mac won't have that option. So what? There's nothing wrong with speculating that present design decisions are going to impact longevity of systems, but that doesn't mean this is a fact. Nor in fact that it is even likely. Assuming common reliability levels, a current AS Mac will keep on running for years, and certainly some markets actually require it by consumer law. However, since we don't have any idea what software there will be in another 9 years from now, it's quite bizarre to think we should be measuring present systems on the basis of what it will be.
As I said elsewhere, my 1992 Classic II is a marginal rebuild on a system I had in the day, which produced designs and layouts for publications (commercial ones, in fact), advertising and marketing campaigns, and also helped manage projects and was central to the financial management of a business. It can still do exactly that. Old computers don't explode into pieces - I'm glad you pay yours the respect it deserves!
By the way, as you should know by now, I don't have much disagreement with your views on the corporate policies Apple weave into their products. In many instances I don't like them and don't approve of them. But pick one of these things up, and it is very hard to believe they don't know what they're doing, even if you don't like it.
Right before the plug was pulled on Power Computing, I had the opportunity to get a factory tour in Round Rock, Tx. Impressive operation. And they will building a much larger facility down the road. Then boom, lights out. They probably could have killed Apple on the hardware front.
Given Apple were teetering on the edge of bankruptcy at the point the plug was pulled on the clones, this was probably a large reason why.
At that point in time, Apple's hardware was a mess of overcomplicating and desperation. It didn't take much to compete or outperform it.
I personally think people like mac because of hardware not software.
macOS are worse than others os Force the user to make something easy into something difficult.
Apple hardcore fan are worse too. They're going to make me use Windows..
with an expensive product but what you get besides the Apple logo is not worth it. The default memory space provided is less. And upgrading is expensive. The warranty is only 1 year for a very expensive product. If you want more warranty, you have to pay a higher price.
I bought a used PC. I find that the last experience that made me hate Windows is gone. It's very smooth to use. Opening apps responds much faster, even though my PC's CPU is slower than my MacBook Air's. I don't know what causes Mac to lag. Maybe it's due to poor optimization from Apple. Because Apple has mainly focused on the iPhone for a very long time. Today's MacOS is still the MacOS for 2000s.
people think iPhone died when Steve Jobs passed away.
but not iphone its macOS
I like my MacBook Air
macOS are worse than others os Force the user to make something easy into something difficult.
Apple hardcore fan are worse too. They're going to make me use Windows..
with an expensive product but what you get besides the Apple logo is not worth it. The default memory space provided is less. And upgrading is expensive. The warranty is only 1 year for a very expensive product. If you want more warranty, you have to pay a higher price.
I bought a used PC. I find that the last experience that made me hate Windows is gone. It's very smooth to use. Opening apps responds much faster, even though my PC's CPU is slower than my MacBook Air's. I don't know what causes Mac to lag. Maybe it's due to poor optimization from Apple. Because Apple has mainly focused on the iPhone for a very long time. Today's MacOS is still the MacOS for 2000s.
people think iPhone died when Steve Jobs passed away.
but not iphone its macOS
I like my MacBook Air
Well, that is me back online with my Mac Mini, having had to downgrade from Sonoma to Ventura due to the mouse cursor bug that has not been fixed since Sonoma launched. Ventura is decent, at least. Of course, now I am plagued with "Upgrade to Sonoma....".
"They" didn't need more than 4GB 10 years ago, either.
"They" didn't need >50Mb/s internet service back in 2010.
"They" didn't need more than a 13GB hard drive back in 2003.
"They" didn't need a bigger than 15" monitor back in 2001.
"They" didn't need a faster than 33.6kbps modem back in 1997.
"They" didn't need more than 1.44MB per floppy disk to back up documents in 1993.
"They" didn't need a hard drive back in 1987.
"They" didn't need any more than 640kB of RAM back in 1981...
The word "yet" actually has meaning.
Apple patents brand new foldable display tech that looks to fix the ugly crease
Apple has filed for a patent that looks to make the crease in a foldable more bearable in use.
www.msn.com
Interesting. Folding phones coming to Apple. How many times have I heard iPhone users say they want a foldable or bought a foldable just because the form factor interested them? A lot.
I think it is a good idea and if their patent actually works I would be legitimately interested. I will never buy a foldable phone for two reasons. 1) plastic screen will scratch if I look at it wrong. 2) I will never unsee the crease. And a 3rd is they are generally heavier and bigger with less battery life than a bar phone.
Now this also has me thinking about Mac's. How long before MacOS has a touch interface? I bet the introduction of iOS like menus and design in MacOS is to get people ready for a merge of feature sets at a future time. I bet Mac's will get touch screens at some point.
I may be crazy but Apple has done stuff like this in the past. We will never use a hole punch cut out on an iPhone because our sensors would make it aesthetically unpleasing and that is why we have the notch. Apple incorporates notch design into laptops. Then Apple introduces the pill hole cut out with dynamic island?????? New Mac's still have notch and new iPhones have pill cutout???
So Apple does whatever they want even if it makes no sense or seems like an about face from a previous position.
Too bad they couldn't have kept going. Too bad factories like this aren't still running in the USA!
Of course we would not have the Apple of today if they would have continued down that path and one could argue whether or not that has been a benefit to end users or a detriment. I personally think it has made Apple pursue more predatory business practices but Apple was never, ever about sharing hardware partners or sharing software. They have always sleeked complete control over the hardware so I really can't expect a different outcome than what we have.
True, but PC had a good machine. Would have gotten even better if they were allowed to blossom further.
My 1st computer was a ZX Spectrum, my extremely tight fisted dad, he bought a used 16K version, which was great if all you wanted was to code.. but for games, not so much, so for a birthday, I was given a brand new game, on cassette, 48K, it said.. I only had 16K of RAM, so my mom paid for the upgrade and it was expensive...
Speccy's worked better after upgrades... Then later I bought a new 2nd gen Macbook Pro, it came with 2x1 GB RAM, after a while I bought 2x4GB as the RAM was damn expensive, went from 2 to 8GB.. What a feeling...
Damn 8GB across 3 laptops, 1st then the 2013 Pro, now the 2020 M1 Air...all 8GB RAM...
The only laptop to benefit from upgrades was a bit pointless, once I learnt that 8GB was the max 32bit could handle for FCP7, it seemed pointless..
Hoped that the later this would be improved on with the "new" 64bit everyone was going on about.. it never happened, something happened and post purchase upgrading became a hated thing, a new thing BTO... build to order, buy expensive, you will thank us later..
How that is better, it is not, it is exclusionary, from a company all about innovation, to exclude cause you make the product too damn expensive.. and then never explain why.. Odd...
The price jumps from stock base level to 1 level up was extreme, so you make the decision to buy cheap, Pro to Air, but had the Pro had the option of an expensive RAM+Install Fee I would have done it, no question, to go from 8 to 16, then 24, then 32GB RAM, over 5 or 10 years, no question, a lot of people would do this..
Apple chose to not have this as an income stream, really not sure why, instead it has a policy of given folks not what they need..
Software requires RAM, the more the better when it comes to RAM, you don't know in 2024 what you will be doing a year from now, maybe in the US, where laptops are cheap, salaries high, you can afford to BTO, oh it is only $2300 or $3200.. Double that for Africa, here a simple ipad costs more than a year of rent, a watch with a basic iphone is more than a year of rent, that is just insane..
We use tech longer than the US, as it is too expensive to replace, by not upgrading Apple hurts the brand of Apple, when it is so easy to build a PC, upgrade.. Apple should be wanting to be better than a PC, remember the PC Apple ads.. M/soft it seems won that war...
Greed, pure greed, greed runs on incompetence, and the lump of coal with no imagination..a bad combination.
Speccy's worked better after upgrades... Then later I bought a new 2nd gen Macbook Pro, it came with 2x1 GB RAM, after a while I bought 2x4GB as the RAM was damn expensive, went from 2 to 8GB.. What a feeling...
Damn 8GB across 3 laptops, 1st then the 2013 Pro, now the 2020 M1 Air...all 8GB RAM...
The only laptop to benefit from upgrades was a bit pointless, once I learnt that 8GB was the max 32bit could handle for FCP7, it seemed pointless..
Hoped that the later this would be improved on with the "new" 64bit everyone was going on about.. it never happened, something happened and post purchase upgrading became a hated thing, a new thing BTO... build to order, buy expensive, you will thank us later..
How that is better, it is not, it is exclusionary, from a company all about innovation, to exclude cause you make the product too damn expensive.. and then never explain why.. Odd...
The price jumps from stock base level to 1 level up was extreme, so you make the decision to buy cheap, Pro to Air, but had the Pro had the option of an expensive RAM+Install Fee I would have done it, no question, to go from 8 to 16, then 24, then 32GB RAM, over 5 or 10 years, no question, a lot of people would do this..
Apple chose to not have this as an income stream, really not sure why, instead it has a policy of given folks not what they need..
Software requires RAM, the more the better when it comes to RAM, you don't know in 2024 what you will be doing a year from now, maybe in the US, where laptops are cheap, salaries high, you can afford to BTO, oh it is only $2300 or $3200.. Double that for Africa, here a simple ipad costs more than a year of rent, a watch with a basic iphone is more than a year of rent, that is just insane..
We use tech longer than the US, as it is too expensive to replace, by not upgrading Apple hurts the brand of Apple, when it is so easy to build a PC, upgrade.. Apple should be wanting to be better than a PC, remember the PC Apple ads.. M/soft it seems won that war...
Greed, pure greed, greed runs on incompetence, and the lump of coal with no imagination..a bad combination.
@Technerd108
I am so in agreement, I just wonder of the 2 options Apple, other tech could have chosen, had they gone the post purchase upgrading, what the laptops/phones would have been like...
No reason they cannot change, would I invest in a M3 Macbook Pro and pay for updates/upgrades, YES YES YES..
hard to understand why this is not the case, must be a reason it is not the standard.
I am so in agreement, I just wonder of the 2 options Apple, other tech could have chosen, had they gone the post purchase upgrading, what the laptops/phones would have been like...
No reason they cannot change, would I invest in a M3 Macbook Pro and pay for updates/upgrades, YES YES YES..
hard to understand why this is not the case, must be a reason it is not the standard.
Hi @Technerd108
I tried windows, from 3.1 through 95/98/98SE, into NT4.0. then XP, then 7 then 10...Mac from 10.4 Tiger, through 3 Mac laptops, 1 iphone.. 1st gen iphone, had it only short time, found it not as useful as a cheap whatever came before android. Worked better with my mac laptop than the iphone, no tethering was the issue with the iphone..
Apple Tim and I think Jony Ive, made a decision about what direction to take the laptops, soldered in, BTO, build to order, instead of gen 1 and gen 2 of the macbook pro that came with the drop out battery, the slots for the RAM, firewire, express34 slot...
Apple had such brilliant momentum, darlings of tech, everyone loved the I am a Mac ads, the cheeky slight of hand by Steve Jobs, the quirky tech, the ballsy move of the iphone, but then something happened, ok, Steve got unalived, RIP, something changed, my timeline might be a little off...
Most users buy laptops if they are buying Apple, the software is great for the most part, why Apple has in 7 years not fixed the keyboard bug in FCPX is beyond me, but still it is functional..
It makes every logical sense to design for upgrading over the life of the product, my case 12 years...
The software changes, the OS changes, as we have seen, you build in obsolescence in the code, like Google and Apple did to old ipads, and old mac laptops..
My 2013 macbook pro would still be viable in another 12 years, as software already installed will still work, like we use Final Cut pro 7 almost 20 yrs after it was published, on 20 yr old mac pro desktop machines..
Parts of this planet cannot afford new every 2 years, not here in Africa, so we use devices for a long time, having a couple of extra sticks of RAM, really would make a world of difference now we are 64bit devices..
I am 100% behind your comment, I support it...
I tried windows, from 3.1 through 95/98/98SE, into NT4.0. then XP, then 7 then 10...Mac from 10.4 Tiger, through 3 Mac laptops, 1 iphone.. 1st gen iphone, had it only short time, found it not as useful as a cheap whatever came before android. Worked better with my mac laptop than the iphone, no tethering was the issue with the iphone..
Apple Tim and I think Jony Ive, made a decision about what direction to take the laptops, soldered in, BTO, build to order, instead of gen 1 and gen 2 of the macbook pro that came with the drop out battery, the slots for the RAM, firewire, express34 slot...
Apple had such brilliant momentum, darlings of tech, everyone loved the I am a Mac ads, the cheeky slight of hand by Steve Jobs, the quirky tech, the ballsy move of the iphone, but then something happened, ok, Steve got unalived, RIP, something changed, my timeline might be a little off...
Most users buy laptops if they are buying Apple, the software is great for the most part, why Apple has in 7 years not fixed the keyboard bug in FCPX is beyond me, but still it is functional..
It makes every logical sense to design for upgrading over the life of the product, my case 12 years...
The software changes, the OS changes, as we have seen, you build in obsolescence in the code, like Google and Apple did to old ipads, and old mac laptops..
My 2013 macbook pro would still be viable in another 12 years, as software already installed will still work, like we use Final Cut pro 7 almost 20 yrs after it was published, on 20 yr old mac pro desktop machines..
Parts of this planet cannot afford new every 2 years, not here in Africa, so we use devices for a long time, having a couple of extra sticks of RAM, really would make a world of difference now we are 64bit devices..
I am 100% behind your comment, I support it...