MP 7,1 Can't decide between 7.1 and PC purchase!

[richinaus]

I was in the same boat and after a few years of hemming and hawing, I finally jumped in a got a 32core Threadripper dual 3090 build from Puget upgrading from a 10core iMac Pro. I'm mostly Ae+CPU based rendering currently but wanted to make sure I had a machine able to handle anything I threw at it. I REALLY wanted to stay on the Mac platform, but the current Mac Pro seemed like a dead end. I think these AMD cards are the last GPU upgrades we'll see for it, and the future AS Mac Pro seemed too far off for me to wait. I think there will be some growing pains before it fills the niche the current Mac Pro fills.

Pros
• CPU Rendering is obviously faster.

• Ae is much faster. The higher clock speeds translates to faster previews at a higher res. This is without running the MFR on the beta. Once that is out of beta it will make a big difference with 32 cores.

• GPU rendering is light years faster. I have not tried it yet, but Redshift RT will be PC only for what I'm assuming a good while before they make the port to Metal, so you will have earlier access to almost realtime rendering.

• I'm really interested in where Blender is going. It was clear to me Metal support for eeVee and Cycles was not a priority for them.

• I started getting into PC gaming.

Cons
• This thing is LOUD AF. Like way louder than I really thought it would be when just working idle in Ae and C4D. The initial fan curves for Puget had the machine revving up and down even at idle with no apps open. We've since adjusted the fan curve to be more aggressive and it runs louder more consistently now. A Mac Pro would definitely be way more quiet than this beast, and look better.

• Windows is horrible. File Explorer hurts my eyes to use. I can't believe anyone thinks this is proper UI design. There are File Explorer alternatives that are much better, but I'm hesitant to pull the trigger and hack the registry to make them default. I'm waiting out to see if Win 11 brings any improvements and gauge the over all system stability before I get hacky.

• It seems a lot less stable than my Mac. I've had system hangs and reboots for no good reason. Most of my system/Ae/C4D hangs were me just pushing things too hard/wrong and I knew why it did what it did. This is just random Ae is gonna hang while not doing anything too intensive.

For now I have a M1 MacBook Pro next door to my PC and a monitor and Logitech keyboard and mouse I can quickly switch inputs on. (I'm typing this on the MacBook right now). I do email and casual browsing on the MacBook, and I'm getting work done on the PC. Parsec works surprising well and would be a great option to just run Ae and C4D on the PC, but 30 years of muscle memory of hitting CMD was too hard to break, so I wound up swapping the keyboard commands using Power Toys on Windows, and Parsec does not translate keys the Mac for some reason. Really hope they can figure that out.

I was slightly worried about chip production/supply chains in the next year or two and needed to get a machine to get the job done now. If the next Mac Pro proves to be something that can do the work I need it to do, I will switch back in a heart beat. Then I'll have a cheaply upgradable render box I can hopefully move into the closet with some ventilation and sound proofing.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

Except for using slightly different apps, my thoughts on my PC and Macs are virtually identical [and our set ups but yours is better ]

It was current and future plans that swung me, plus simply better support on Windows for GPU’s and RT rendering.

Suffice to say, like you, my macs are not far away, but again not really used for productivity that much unfortunately.

 

[vett93]

Are there Windows desktops that are as quiet as MP 7,1? For 'productivity' work, a loud machine is the fastest way to stop me from being productive.

 

[th0masp]

My PC with a 'silent' case with two fans, a 'silent' power supply, a gigantic Noctua heatsink and an Asus 2080 Ti Strix (set to performance mode) produces a very even fan noise you wouldn't be able to really hear in a shared office.
In my home office I can hear it humming gently no matter if I'm pushing the GPU or CPU or if its sitting idle. By no means would I consider it loud or a distraction.

What's working me up is that in over 10 years all the PCs I've owned were unusable for listening to audio while working - with the headphones plugged in I could clearly hear every time the GPUs were being pushed. Macs on the other hand haven't given me this issue at all. ?

Edit: Since you said you're a fellow Trashcan user - mine is more audible than the PC, even at the default fan settings.

 

[richinaus]

My PC with a 'silent' case with two fans, a 'silent' power supply, a gigantic Noctua heatsink and an Asus 2080 Ti Strix (set to performance mode) produces a very even fan noise you wouldn't be able to really hear in a shared office.
In my home office I can hear it humming gently no matter if I'm pushing the GPU or CPU or if its sitting idle. By no means would I consider it loud or a distraction.

What's working me up is that in over 10 years all the PCs I've owned were unusable for listening to audio while working - with the headphones plugged in I could clearly hear every time the GPUs were being pushed. Macs on the other hand haven't given me this issue at all. ?

Edit: Since you said you're a fellow Trashcan user - mine is more audible than the PC, even at the default fan settings.

I listen to all audio from my iPad. The PC is there as a pure productivity tool only

But yes, mine can get loud with the fans but really the heat is more annoying to me these days. I am noise sensitive and most of the time am on my own in the studio due to staff WFH, and its fine. I run a standard NZXT box with a full on CPU heatsink and fan [cant remember which].

I just put in a new Asus 3080 ti GPU and it is noticeably quieter than the 2080 super I had in there [the GPU is what makes all my noise, given I use it for RT rendering].

 

[EdwardC]

My HP workstation with a Quadro card is whisper quiet. I work in my home office and can not stand fan noise, that being said my M1 mini is 100% silent not that it's a workstation.

 

[vett93]

My PC with a 'silent' case with two fans, a 'silent' power supply, a gigantic Noctua heatsink and an Asus 2080 Ti Strix (set to performance mode) produces a very even fan noise you wouldn't be able to really hear in a shared office.
In my home office I can hear it humming gently no matter if I'm pushing the GPU or CPU or if its sitting idle. By no means would I consider it loud or a distraction.

What's working me up is that in over 10 years all the PCs I've owned were unusable for listening to audio while working - with the headphones plugged in I could clearly hear every time the GPUs were being pushed. Macs on the other hand haven't given me this issue at all. ?

Edit: Since you said you're a fellow Trashcan user - mine is more audible than the PC, even at the default fan settings.

Are you saying your PC is quieter than a Trashcan MP 6,1? I cannot hear my Trashcan Mac at all.

 

[th0masp]

Yes, that's what I'm saying. I can hear the Trashcan (6-core, D500, 64 GB, manufactured in 2018, placed about 70 cm away behind a 38-inch screen). PC is on the floor beside the desk.

Mainly I'm saying: buy a decent silent PC, not a self-assembled collection of gamer hardware - maybe look into a HP machine like EdwardC mentioned - and don't worry about noise levels. Still plenty left to to worry - about Windows usability.

 

[h9826790]

It's easy to build a silent PC. There is some forums specifically focus on this area.

 

[mBox]

I use 2019 at work alongside an affordable HP Z240 but high-end Nvidia card (forgot the model).
Both work in Maya but mostly After Effects and a slew of apps e.g. Resolve, Pro Tools, Avid MC, etc.
Honestly, if you can afford the 2019 and load it decently you are fine.
Arnold renders nicely on mine.
But most of the time, all my heavy data set Maya work is on that HP, and it's rarely on the internet.
The MP does everything and gets all that hands-on action e.g. Mograph, editing, color, and finishing, etc..
It does all that since it's robust and not as cumbersome as the HP IMHO.

 

[Freeangel1]

GO AMD THREADRIPPER IN A PC.
MUCH CHEAPER TO BUILD
TOALLY USER UPGRADABLE AND REPAIRABLE.
A THREADRIPPER WILL WASTE a 7.1 Mac Pro. Especially for 3D Work.

Windows 11 ROCKS!! BIG SUR SUCKS!

 

[mBox]

Dude, we can hear you
As a real professional that does this for a living, you just can't justify going for something that gets easily replaced in a few months. Yes, I am talking about Windows components.

 

[mBox]

Are you saying your PC is quieter than a Trashcan MP 6,1? I cannot hear my Trashcan Mac at all.

I have to agree here. I can hear all the HPs before I could hear a tube.
Gotta love a PC when you know someone from IT is logging in and doing tasks.
The suckers just ramp up like my RED camera
And if your 2013 MP is loud, maybe clean that damn thing with air

 

[skippermonkey]

GO AMD THREADRIPPER IN A PC.
MUCH CHEAPER TO BUILD
TOALLY USER UPGRADABLE AND REPAIRABLE.
A THREADRIPPER WILL WASTE a 7.1 Mac Pro. Especially for 3D Work.

Windows 11 ROCKS!! BIG SUR SUCKS!

No need to be jingoistic (and slightly childish). Everyone knows PCs deliver more bang for the buck. But then saying ‘Windows rocks and Big Sur sucks‘ really removes any credibility fom your argument.

 

[sirio76]

Are you saying your PC is quieter than a Trashcan MP 6,1? I cannot hear my Trashcan Mac at all.

If you never clean the dust it can get noisy, not annoying as an average PC but definitely audible.
A quick clean will solve the issue and it will be back to be almost noise free, if that’s not the case maybe there are other problems.

 

[richinaus]

No need to be jingoistic (and slightly childish). Everyone knows PCS deliver more bang for the buck. But then saying ‘Windows rocks and Big Sur sucks‘ really removes any credibility from your argument.

I thought it was a well considered and eloquent argument on why windoze is the best and Apple sux….?

 

[kvic]

Given OP's requirements, it's obviously better to go with PCs IMO.

I'm little surprised though ppl are comparing OEM machines (MacPro7,1) vs DIY PC.. A better comparison will be against HP Z series, Lenovo P series and equivalent workstation designs/chassis from OEMs.

Not that you can't go with DIY builds but it requires lots of know-how's to do it well and make it look non-amateur. Lower tier but experienced system integrators such as Puget Systems are simply not even up to the job.

I could feel OP actually wants a Mac Pro. If so, why not just go with one. Justification is unnecessary as long as it makes you work happier everyday..

 

[th0masp]

If you never clean the dust it can get noisy, not annoying as an average PC but definitely audible.
A quick clean will solve the issue and it will be back to be almost noise free, if that’s not the case maybe there are other problems.

I'm the first owner of this Trashcan and I heard it right from the start when setting it up. It simply is audible and not whisper quiet or anything at default fan speeds. If it was possible to clean it without removing all the cables I might consider testing that just to see if my recollection is wrong. As it is however - no motivation to unwire everything and fumble around behind the monitor.

My point was that a PC does not have to be some monstrosity that revs up and down all the time and somehow makes you feel relieved once it's turned off.

 

[mitchino]

I have not tried it yet, but Redshift RT will be PC only for what I'm assuming a good while before they make the port to Metal, so you will have earlier access to almost realtime rendering.

Redshift is already available for Metal, and the new Big Navi GPUs work great.

 

[vett93]

I'm the first owner of this Trashcan and I heard it right from the start when setting it up. It simply is audible and not whisper quiet or anything at default fan speeds. If it was possible to clean it without removing all the cables I might consider testing that just to see if my recollection is wrong. As it is however - no motivation to unwire everything and fumble around behind the monitor.

My point was that a PC does not have to be some monstrosity that revs up and down all the time and somehow makes you feel relieved once it's turned off.

Do you know the rpm of the fan for your MP 6,1?

 

[vett93]

Not that you can't go with DIY builds but it requires lots of know-how's to do it well and make it look non-amateur. Lower tier but experienced system integrators such as Puget Systems are simply not even up to the job.

Are custom builders like Puget Systems really not as good as OEM vendors like HP and Lenovo?

 

[kvic]

Are custom builders like Puget Systems really not as good as OEM vendors like HP and Lenovo?

Depends on what's good enough for you. IMO, the biggest OEMs in the world are miles & miles ahead in terms of workstation designs. Take a look at HP Z for example. I don't speak Russian but I found this guy has the best video on HP Z. In the video you can see the latest & previous gen HP Z8 & Z840 chassis. Personally I like the look of previous gen more.

 

[richinaus]

Depends on what's good enough for you. IMO, the biggest OEMs in the world are miles & miles ahead in terms of workstation designs. Take a look at HP Z for example. I don't speak Russian but I found this guy has the best video on HP Z. In the video you can see the latest & previous gen HP Z8 & Z840 chassis. Personally I like the look of previous gen more.

I tend to agree with this.
My PC is an slightly adhoc combination of high end gaming hardware that works well [It was a pro build], with minimal LED's.
However I don't trust it as I really do hammer it all day long [80 hours a week], and would much prefer a Z workstation, but there aren't any available !

Try buying anything HP Z at present - I cant find any in the stores, and get quoted dates such as Jan 2022...... The cash is there ready to spend and nothing really to buy!

 

[EdwardC]

I tend to agree with this.
My PC is an slightly adhoc combination of high end gaming hardware that works well [It was a pro build], with minimal LED's.
However I don't trust it as I really do hammer it all day long [80 hours a week], and would much prefer a Z workstation, but there aren't any available !

Try buying anything HP Z at present - I cant find any in the stores, and get quoted dates such as Jan 2022...... The cash is there ready to spend and nothing really to buy!

Check out Provantage or even B&H depending on the level of build you need. Plenty of stocked items at both vendors at the moment.

PROVANTAGE: Workstations - Workstations

Get Fast Service and Low Prices on Workstations - Workstations and Over 500,000 Other Products at Provantage.

www.provantage.com

 

[LEOMODE]

I don't make money off of using Mac Pro 7,1 but here are my 2 cents (what I have is in my signature below).

TLDR version is that you will end up spending more money for Mac Pro 7,1. Are you ok shelling out a bit more money, that would be the final question you would have to answer.

I actually use more Windows 10 than Mac OS. For my usage, Mac OS is buggy and doesn't feature what Windows offers. However, I still decided to go with Mac Pro 7,1 because I can still switch to Mac OS for any other usage that I need Mac OS on.

Sure, I can maybe go with Windows desktop and additional MacBooks or Mac Minis. However, what Mac Pro 7,1 desktop offers is expandability, reliability, higher resale value/sellability than Windows desktop, and flexibility. Most Windows desktops you probably need to upgrade and change every 2-3 years hoping it won't break down. My last 5,1 Mac Pro lasted 10 years before I finally switched to 7,1. I still would've kept it if I could keep upgrading software and hardware.

However, all of my decisions to keep using Mac Pro came at a higher cost.

*If you only will have to use Mac OS to make a living -> No brainer and go with Mac Pro. Maybe wait for M1 chip Mac Pro.
*If you have to use Windows more to make a living -> Go with Windows desktop, or Mac Pro 7,1 if you want the value propositions from Mac Pro 7,1 I stated above in bold.
*If you want to use both equally -> Go with Mac Pro 7,1 as long as you're ok with staying for Windows 10, or buy Windows desktop/laptop and MacBooks or Mac desktops.

I do admit, however, that I still sometimes look at going with Windows desktop + MacBook/Mac combo, but being able to just do one job on one machine is still more convenient for me so now I'm just looking at 6900XT so I can easily swift from Mac OS to Windows OS. I just wished Mac will support Windows 11 officially.

 

[vett93]

...
My PC is an slightly adhoc combination of high end gaming hardware that works well [It was a pro build], with minimal LED's.
However I don't trust it as I really do hammer it all day long [80 hours a week], and would much prefer a Z workstation, but there aren't any available !
...

May I ask why you don't trust your pro build desktop with high end gaming hardware? Is it due to non-ECC RAM, thermo-throttled CPU, or something else?