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Realityck

macrumors G4
Nov 9, 2015
11,444
17,241
Silicon Valley, CA
It's overkill for most people and too expensive. Just a guess. I tend to take whatever the current standard is and double it (8GB > 16GB) for breathing room.
I think most people seem to forget the cost of previous Macs along with the devalued USD. Simple comparison of a 1998 G3 Mac that went for $1299.99

so $1,299.99 in 1998 is worth $2,376.76 today
even more recently $1299 in 2012 is worth $1,687.38 today

So spending an extra $400 today for more storage or RAM is not that much more, compared to a few years back.
 
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boswald

macrumors 65816
Jul 21, 2016
1,311
2,192
Florida
I think most people seem to forget the cost of previous Macs along with the devalued USD. Simple comparison of a 1998 G3 Mac that went for $1299.99

so $1,299.99 in 1998 is worth $2,376.76 today
Good point. Hadn't thought of it that way.
 

someoneoutthere

macrumors 6502
Jul 27, 2014
327
126
Someplaceoutthere
As some other users have pointed out, I do not believe that 32gb is unpopular, rather, we live in a world where instant gratification and potential savings are playing a bigger role in our decision making process. If I can simply show up at an Apple Retail Store or an authorized reseller such as Best Buy or Micro Center and get the MacBook I want during my visit and/or at a lower price without having to wait weeks for my BTO device to ship from overseas, I would be most certainly influenced by the availability & saving(s) and utilize those outlets to purchase the MacBook that fits my needs.

Micro Center near my zipcode, for example, has plenty of 32gb and 64gb MBPs with 1 & 2TB storage for $200-900 off MSRP in stock. Similarly built MBPs on Apple.com are expected to be delivered towards the end of the month.
 

ian87w

macrumors G3
Feb 22, 2020
8,704
12,638
Indonesia
Looking at buying a Macbook pro 2021 16,2" or possibly waiting for the 2023 version. Everything is clear to me but one detail: why is the 32gb internal memory option so unpopular? I mean like I get it, it's expensive to pay for, but you're already getting a VERY expensive machine that you're likely going to hold on to for maybe 6-8 years, and you're fine with having just 16gb? How would that be enough in a few years even when every damn app turns into electron and using hundreds of mb's?

Am I missing something? Will 16gb be just fine and I'm just overestimating what will be needed a few years from now or what?
Because it's not a base model.
Majority of people buy stuff that are readily in stock, which is the base model. Also, most resellers will only be selling the base retail models as you can only buy 32GB model BTO from Apple.
 
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NeonNights

macrumors 6502a
Jul 22, 2022
673
891
32GB is not only expensive but simply unnecessary for a majority of users. Those that get 32GB already know they need it. I don't buy the argument that 32GB is future-proofing. To some extent it is but after a few years there will be advancements in SoC design and/or new interfaces and hardware features will require you to upgrade anyways outside of RAM.

My 2015 MacBook Pro 13 with 8GB is still happily humming along as my kid's primary laptop. My M1 MacBook Air with 16GB will probably last just as long as the MBP. I wouldn't go for a 32GB MBA even if the option existed. Save the money instead towards your next upgrade or accessories, unless you absolutely know your daily workflow is actually hampered by 16GB.
 
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russell_314

macrumors 604
Feb 10, 2019
6,680
10,284
USA
why is the 32gb internal memory option so unpopular?
A better question is why would someone buy something they don’t need? Most people don’t need 64 GB or 32 GB. I think 16 GB is considered the sweet spot for many people. I’d say people that just do web browsing and light tasks are overpaying if they get more than 8 GB.

It’s all about what you do and you should buy the correct configuration for your needs. Some people need a 2 TB SSD. For me that would be a complete waste of money because I never have more than 150 GB on my SSD.

I hear a lot of people talk about “future proof”. Not everyone keeps their MacBook for seven years. Some people trade theirs in every three to four years or even sooner.

The only purpose I could see for over buying a configuration would be bragging rights. Just to impress your friends, saying you have a maxed out system. I think that’s more of a gaming PC thing than a Mac thing though.
 

wilberforce

macrumors 68030
Aug 15, 2020
2,932
3,210
SF Bay Area
Much better to get a new Mac every 3 years or so than sink so much into that upgrade now and have it 6-8 years. In 6-8 years, RAM is not your only problem. Your Mac is outdated in every area by then.
I think 3 years is too short, and 6-8 years too long. IMO, 5 years is a reasonable time horizon for planning purposes. After about 5 years I find I am looking for a new machine, and it has never been just because I am lacking RAM. 5 years is when Apple considers it "vintage," and latest MacOS support starts to get dropped. New connectors and interfaces are not supported. Screens get improved. The list goes on.
I don't think one should skimp on RAM - get what you need plus some headroom. But the idea of maxing out on RAM ("get the most you can afford!") in the hope of extending the life several years is just not realistic and a waste of money, which could be saved and put towards the next upgrade.
 
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velocityg4

macrumors 604
Dec 19, 2004
7,336
4,726
Georgia
Oh man, you’re gonna love this:


That was an interesting video. It's amazing how computers which were so limited for resources. Where able to run financial systems and military systems at a massive scale. Something like an iPhone 14 has more computing power than all the computer systems used by the US government combined. At the time when SAGE came out. Possibly more compute power than the entire world of 1958. As I'm guessing, conservatively, the iPhone 14 is between one million and two million times faster than SAGE in IOPS.
 
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Tajhad

macrumors member
Apr 4, 2017
65
25
Newcastle
I purchased an M1 16 inch PBP a few months back. I went with 32G of Ram and 2 TB drive.
My last machine I “specked up“ to 16G of Ram but it lasted 9 years. If fact it is still going well but trackpad was getting a little unpredictable and battery very poor. I wanted to replace it before it gave up and I had to buy something immediate. But - it lasted 9 years.

I have gone with 32 G of Ram for the same logic you have expressed. Although 16G is great for the moment - will it be in 5 years time ? I would rather have it on board than say I need to upgrade because it isnt cutting mustard.
I also went with 2 TB hardrive. My last machine was only 500 G and I replaced it with a 1TB drive within 2 years ( luckily it was the last model that you could upgrade yourself). I know this is personal choice but would prefer the storage built in rather than having drives hanging off it. I know a lot of people don’t care and are happy to do so.

Regarding the ram - I personally would go to 32G ( and have). The hard drives you can work around, - the RAM not so much.
 
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daveo228i

macrumors newbie
Feb 1, 2020
20
9
When I was shopping for a new Mac Book I chose a MacBook Pro 1M, and opted for 16 megs of RAM, instead of the 8 megs. I’m not a power user, but I have noticed with my RAM memory app, that it times I’m pushing 8 megs. So it’s nice to know I have plenty in reserve if needed.
 

profcutter

macrumors 68000
Mar 28, 2019
1,550
1,296
That was an interesting video. It's amazing how computers which were so limited for resources. Where able to run financial systems and military systems at a massive scale. Something like an iPhone 14 has more computing power than all the computer systems used by the US government combined. At the time when SAGE came out. Possibly more compute power than the entire world of 1958. As I'm guessing, conservatively, the iPhone 14 is between one million and two million times faster than SAGE in IOPS.
I love the film both for its depiction of archaic computer hardware, and for the drama. MEMORY…. Is described with a soundtrack out of a horror movie. The punch cards, the displays, and the core memory! It’s actually fascinating what they were able to achieve with such technology. The truth is that developing a video monitor using that system is really impressive. Unfortunate that it was developed for military purposes, like so much other technology. I’d love to see one of those displays in person. It looks like maybe 30 inches? I’d also love to know what that device was that one of the operators was touching to the screen. A primitive touch screen interface?
 

tigersoul

macrumors member
Original poster
Sep 20, 2011
55
9
Thanks for all the replies giving various perspectives of the situation. I would probably be fine with 16 if it wasn't for the fact I do music production and need virtualization here and there. Those are the two areas that will be affected. Putting 8gb into virtualization will probably just barely work so what I have to figure out is whether "just barely works" is good enough for the frequency I'm doing that.
 

wilberforce

macrumors 68030
Aug 15, 2020
2,932
3,210
SF Bay Area
Thanks for all the replies giving various perspectives of the situation. I would probably be fine with 16 if it wasn't for the fact I do music production and need virtualization here and there. Those are the two areas that will be affected. Putting 8gb into virtualization will probably just barely work so what I have to figure out is whether "just barely works" is good enough for the frequency I'm doing that.
Sounds like you actually have a need for more RAM, so get it.
 
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Wahlstrm

macrumors 6502a
Dec 4, 2013
865
884
Does anyone know if Apple ever explained why they chose not to make the RAM of their macOS machines expandable?

Besides being cheaper to produce without a mechanism for removable ram sticks and that they also make a lot more money by forcing people to buy ram from them instead of 3rd party.

…It allows for much thinner machines.

And now with M-chips it’s unclear if it will ever be supported even if there was room for it..
 

tmoerel

Suspended
Jan 24, 2008
1,005
1,570
Besides being cheaper to produce without a mechanism for removable ram sticks and that they also make a lot more money by forcing people to buy ram from them instead of 3rd party.

…It allows for much thinner machines.

And now with M-chips it’s unclear if it will ever be supported even if there was room for it..
Nothing to do with forcing people or lacking room. It is all about speed. You cannot have 400Gb/s using an external module. The lines would be too long and create all kinds of interference.
You can't have this kind of memory performance and have removable memory. Physics!
 

drumcat

macrumors 65816
Feb 28, 2008
1,190
2,891
Otautahi, Aotearoa
Looking at buying a Macbook pro 2021 16,2" or possibly waiting for the 2023 version. Everything is clear to me but one detail: why is the 32gb internal memory option so unpopular? I mean like I get it, it's expensive to pay for, but you're already getting a VERY expensive machine that you're likely going to hold on to for maybe 6-8 years, and you're fine with having just 16gb? How would that be enough in a few years even when every damn app turns into electron and using hundreds of mb's?

Am I missing something? Will 16gb be just fine and I'm just overestimating what will be needed a few years from now or what?
As someone who purchased a 24gb m2 air, I get your thinking. It gets used up most often on cached files, so I know it's not getting used much beyond 16. I expect the reason it's unpopular is that there's a very diminished return on those last GB of RAM. It isn't because they don't help; it's because they don't help much. On a laptop, it's often overkill. However for those that it isn't, either they'll fork out the money, or it's better to get a mini studio.

People doing intense RAM work often are desk-bound anyways. This is just meeting the market. I had my 2015 laptop as a main driver for 5+ years, as I bought the older one since it had USB-A in 2017. It was a wise choice.

Getting the battery replaced under warranty absolutely was not a good choice. Cheap authorised dealers can get in the sea.

Get the RAM if money isn't tight, but understand that after you get past 16g, the return gets smaller and smaller for most people. If you're not most people, decide if a laptop is right. :)
 
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ian87w

macrumors G3
Feb 22, 2020
8,704
12,638
Indonesia
Simple: Speed!
Try to find a removable memory module with LPDDR5 that can push 200-400GB/s. Good luck!
Apple had soldered RAM even before Apple Silicon, aka on intel macs with slower RAM. So the reason was not purely speed. It's simply price control and increasing margin, so people won't just upgrade RAM themselves for less.
 

tmoerel

Suspended
Jan 24, 2008
1,005
1,570
Apple had soldered RAM even before Apple Silicon, aka on intel macs with slower RAM. So the reason was not purely speed. It's simply price control and increasing margin, so people won't just upgrade RAM themselves for less.
It might have been like this in the past but with Apple Silicon it is now a physical limit. New architecture = different paradigm.
 
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Gudi

Suspended
May 3, 2013
4,590
3,267
Berlin, Berlin
However, I think that having more RAM is never a bad thing. The argument of "unused RAM is wasted RAM" is not a compelling one, in my mind. That's just like saying "unused brain power is wasted (in a human)!"
Evolution has it that animal species who only live in caves lose their eyesight over time. It's evolutionary beneficial to not waste any resources on growing organs you can never make use of. The idea that humans only use 10% of their brains is a science myth based on an over interpretation of one study.

Besides, workflows can increase in the future and new macOS's have a tendency to have higher RAM requirements over time.
Another myth in need of better citation. When RAM was scarce people always needed more, but had to live within the limits of the available. Now that RAM is plenty programmers can be wasteful, but that doesn't mean their need will grow endlessly over time. Just like humans won't eat twice as much in ten years and then four times as much in twenty. Even the fattest person has an upper limit of food consumption. Most people don't buy 32GB memory, because they know they can't eat that much. Even at an all-you-can-eat buffet.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
Am I missing something?
I would love to get 32GB of ram, but the price was just not worth it. I do have a couple of apps that could take advantage of it but alas I'm on 16gb - its not the end of the world, but perhaps next time, I'll pony up the extra cash
 
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