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Marsikus

macrumors 6502
Feb 12, 2020
262
224
AE
Much better to get a new Mac every 3 years or so than sink so much into that upgrade now and have it 6-8 years. In 6-8 years, RAM is not your only problem. Your Mac is outdated in every area by then.
And in 6-8 years you got the same RAM amount again, unless you pay increment (and wait!) worth of 16 or more GB for the addition of just 8 GB. On 13" MBP they install 8 GB as base since 2014 and nowadays. It seems, Moore's law has been lost somewhere :D
It is simply does not bother Mac users that much because Apple's applications are well optimized and here are nearly no full-fledged games on Mac.
 

Mr. Dee

macrumors 603
Dec 4, 2003
5,990
12,840
Jamaica
I have the 2020 M1 MacBook Pro with 8 GBs of RAM and it works just fine for me. I consider myself a Power User but it meets my needs for running three different web browsers with multiple tabs, usually have Excel running in the background, Spotify. The reason why consciously went with 8GBs I wasn’t gonna be running VMs on it. For that I have a Windows laptop with 32 GBs of RAM.

I don’t think 32 GBs of RAM is for general purpose computing. It’s more for applications like Adobe Creative Cloud, Final Cut, CAD, rendering etc.
 

sracer

macrumors G4
Apr 9, 2010
10,405
13,290
where hip is spoken
Base models give awesome bang for a buck, but upgrades raise price nearly exponentially.
And despite Apple is greedy on specs, they work great even on “little” hardware.
Exactly.
Apple stirs up and encourages fear (of not having enough RAM or storage). This is reinforced by not allowing end-users to upgrade RAM after the sale. If a person wants to assuage that fear, it's going to cost them... a lot.

In my experiences, Mac OS is highly efficient in its use of RAM. The true amount of RAM needed is obviously dependent upon one's workflows, but in many instances, people don't need as much RAM as they think they do.
 
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velocityg4

macrumors 604
Dec 19, 2004
7,336
4,726
Georgia
It might have been like this in the past but with Apple Silicon it is now a physical limit. New architecture = different paradigm.

While you can't have traditional RAM modules far away. Couldn't Apple have used a socket and pins like CPU have. To make the RAM removable. Instead of soldering. Then they could still be positioned all around the CPU.
 

Siliconguy

macrumors 6502
Jan 1, 2022
430
627
I have no idea how they edit videos on 8GB MacBook Air and get comparable result with MacBook Pro.

And that is the answer. This Base MacBook Air is never used for video editing. I don't even do video editing. Also I don't keep more than 3 or four tabs open in Safari. Why would I? When I'm done with a page I close it. If I might need it later I bookmark it.

8 GB is more than enough for Libreoffice with a 7 MB spreadsheet open, Mail, and this browser. Even the Linux box I do most of the heavy work on (but still no video editing) only has 16 GB and that never runs out either.

The 16 GB point might be the dividing line between video editors and everyone else.
 

Marsikus

macrumors 6502
Feb 12, 2020
262
224
AE
Exactly.
Apple stirs up and encourages fear (of not having enough RAM or storage).
I guess it’s more encouraged by users’ own experience. Last time a built home PC on a budget in 2012, and even then it was 8GB RAM. After 4 years that PC became noticeably slower (thanks to Windows :D)
And now it is 2022 and Apple and PC laptops still go to store shelves with 8GB.

And that is the answer. This Base MacBook Air is never used for video editing. I don't even do video editing.
I suppose Air can do some basic home video cut, doesn’t it?
 

Sheepish-Lord

macrumors 68030
Oct 13, 2021
2,529
5,148
And that is the answer. This Base MacBook Air is never used for video editing. I don't even do video editing. Also I don't keep more than 3 or four tabs open in Safari. Why would I? When I'm done with a page I close it. If I might need it later I bookmark it.

8 GB is more than enough for Libreoffice with a 7 MB spreadsheet open, Mail, and this browser. Even the Linux box I do most of the heavy work on (but still no video editing) only has 16 GB and that never runs out either.

The 16 GB point might be the dividing line between video editors and everyone else.
Stop, you’re making too much sense! You mean you don’t live everyday in computing chaos with dozens of programs open at once, run four 4K monitors and have seventy website tabs you switch between?!

It’s almost like you have the ability to focus and prioritize.
 
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Wahlstrm

macrumors 6502a
Dec 4, 2013
865
884
Nothing to do with forcing people or lacking room. It is all about speed. You cannot have 400Gb/s using an external module. The lines would be too long and create all kinds of interference.
You can't have this kind of memory performance and have removable memory. Physics!

Apple removed ram sticks a decade ago, the 400GB/s was not even invented back then..
 
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NeonNights

macrumors 6502a
Jul 22, 2022
673
891
4GB of Ram for Ventura? Some of those oldest Intel MacBooks? It can run of course, but how great would that be? I doubt it would be super great. And I am not sure how “much better than Windows” achieved. On my personal Windows PC with Core i5-9300H and 16GB of RAM the responsiveness is good for the hardware, whereas adjacent MacBook Pro I mentioned in last post gets stuck here and there more often than I like. Beach ball is not a rare occurrence. 4GB 2014 Intel MacBook Air already struggle to run Big Sur, even after closing out background programs and whatnot.

Yes, it’s my personal experience and by no means it is representative, but I’d fight against every claim on YouTube saying 8GB is enough for macOS unless your workload is mostly single task. I have no idea how they edit videos on 8GB MacBook Air and get comparable result with MacBook Pro.
I just posted a video comparison on the Mac Mini thread demonstrating virtually zero difference scrubbing through a 4K timeline in Final Cit Pro, doing some cuts, titles, transitions and color balance. You can certainly edit video on an 8GB M1. This is compared against my 16GB M1 MacBook Air with Affinity Photo, Word, and 10 Safari tabs open on both machines. Rendering the output is faster on the 16GB M1 but in terms of actual editing (effects, scrubbing, b-roll, color grading, etc), it was all just as smooth of a process between 8GB M1 and 16GB M1 for me editing on a 4K display.

I noticed more difference in Affinity Photo between 8GB and 16GB than I did in Final Cut Pro.
 
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tmoerel

Suspended
Jan 24, 2008
1,005
1,570
Apple removed ram sticks a decade ago, the 400GB/s was not even invented back then..
Sure that was true then. But today we have the fast memory that cannot be removable. Se either live in the past and keep moaning or get with today and enjoy very fast and power efficient machines. The future is in front, the past is gone.
 

Realityck

macrumors G4
Nov 9, 2015
11,444
17,241
Silicon Valley, CA
I have the 2020 M1 MacBook Pro with 8 GBs of RAM and it works just fine for me. I consider myself a Power User but it meets my needs for running three different web browsers with multiple tabs, usually have Excel running in the background, Spotify. The reason why consciously went with 8GBs I wasn’t gonna be running VMs on it. For that I have a Windows laptop with 32 GBs of RAM.

I don’t think 32 GBs of RAM is for general purpose computing. It’s more for applications like Adobe Creative Cloud, Final Cut, CAD, rendering etc.
Funny just about everyone that bought the 27” iMacs before they stopped selling them went out and stuffed them with 32GB of Ram due to accessible slots under the stand in the rear. Back then we all knew you could buy memory a lot cheaper then kitted by Apple from OWC or other sources. Now that Ram is soldered suddenly we don’t spend the money. Too funny.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
I have the 2020 M1 MacBook Pro with 8 GBs of RAM and it works just fine for me
That's awesome and it goes to show you that one size does not fit all.

I don’t think 32 GBs of RAM is for general purpose computing. It’s more for applications like Adobe Creative Cloud, Final Cut, CAD, rendering etc.
I wouldn't go that far. I'm not a full on power user, but yet I find my 16GB of ram hitting the yellow often. One of my favorite games Cities:Skylines eats ram for breakfast - it runs ok with 16, but it needs more. And no its not poorly written but rather its needs are such that you do need that much ram. I also like to use Parallels and again that pushes my ram usage. Do I want to have word, excel, chrome open (with about 10 tabs)? Well then, I see my swap space getting used a bit more.

All I'm saying is just because you don't have a need for more then 8gb, doesn't mean you can draw a conclusion that 32 is simply not needed for the everyone else. Again I think its great that you're needs are such that 8GB is more then enough for your computing but that fact doesn't negate that 32GB is something that would be useful for many others
 
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Mr. Dee

macrumors 603
Dec 4, 2003
5,990
12,840
Jamaica
That's awesome and it goes to show you that one size does not fit all.


I wouldn't go that far. I'm not a full on power user, but yet I find my 16GB of ram hitting the yellow often. One of my favorite games Cities:Skylines eats ram for breakfast - it runs ok with 16, but it needs more. And no its not poorly written but rather its needs are such that you do need that much ram. I also like to use Parallels and again that pushes my ram usage. Do I want to have word, excel, chrome open (with about 10 tabs)? Well then, I see my swap space getting used a bit more.

All I'm saying is just because you don't have a need for more then 8gb, doesn't mean you can draw a conclusion that 32 is simply not needed for the everyone else. Again I think its great that you're needs are such that 8GB is more then enough for your computing but that fact doesn't negate that 32GB is something that would be useful for many others
Apparently Apple doesn’t see it that way for the vast majority that’s why they keep offering 8 GB as the standard on the Air and 13 inch MBP. How many users unless they are tech savvy or educated at the store or relative upgrade the base config?
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
Apparently Apple doesn’t see it that way for the vast majority that’s why they keep offering 8 GB as the standard
OR
Its set so low that people then have to choose the more expensive option and thus Apple rakes in more profits.

I'm betting that Apple is fully aware of the whole "future proofing" idea and people more often then not spec up their configurations because, you know, you can't add more memory afterwards.
 

Mystic-Micro

macrumors newbie
Jun 17, 2022
10
10
OR
Its set so low that people then have to choose the more expensive option and thus Apple rakes in more profits.

I'm betting that Apple is fully aware of the whole "future proofing" idea and people more often then not spec up their configurations because, you know, you can't add more memory afterwards.
To be clear, Apple will optimize for profit obviously, the ram pricing is designed for that, however I don't think they would set the base line at 8/16 for the Air/Pro unless it was good enough for the vast majority of their users over the expected life of the machine (which they view to be 4-5 years, and backed up by MacOs update periods).

Generally, the Mac revenue base is so small relative to their other product offering, I doubt they will sell you a deliberately ram starved machine for the masses and risk the reputation/customer hit for having a slow machine before the expected eol.

Now if you use extensive memory apps, electron everything, chrome only etc, then sure pay the premium because that's the use case, but its not for the vast majority of people.

I think the reason RAM upgrades are so contentious here, is folks keep parroting by more ram, without actually considering use cases, and it really is an individual use case. If you expect to keep your laptop beyond software support range, or plan to use heavy ram intensive apps then go for it, but honestly, Computer usage in terms of RAM/CPU usage for day to day tasks have been pretty stable for the last 8-10 years. I just don't see, safari/spotify/Apple News/excel/powerpoint/mail etc needing 32gb in 4-5 years to warrant it.

Note: If you do think that 4-5 years of a laptop is too short of a lifespan for a Mac, I wholeheartedly agree, but let's be honest, once the Mac. is no longer on the OS update list, it's officially eol at that point. I really think, folks should be talking more about this and less about the ram, because this software based deprecation will happen before any RAM bottlenecks occur for most folks.

Note 2: 4 years is too short though! Apple in the sustainability report for 2022 believes the first owner will use the laptop for 4 years and how they measure the product lifecycle for the average Mac User. While the aknowledge is uses for far longer, they care about folks buying their products, not handing it down. (Paragraph 2, Page 85 of the 2022 Sustainability Report)

  1. To model customer use, we measure the power consumed by a product while it is running in a simulated scenario. Daily usage patterns are specific to each product and are a mixture of actual and modeled customer use data. For the purposes of our assessment, years of use, which are based on first owners, are modeled to be four years for macOS and tvOS devices and three years for iOS, iPadOS, and watchOS devices. Most Apple products last longer and are often passed along, resold, or returned to Apple by the first owner for others to use. More information
    on our product energy use is provided in our Product Environmental Reports.
 
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maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
however I don't think they would set the base line at 8/16 for the Air/Pro unless it was good enough for the vast majority of their users over the expected life of the machine (which they view to be 4-5 years, and backed up by MacOs update periods).
I think I've been jaded by time, and what I mean by that is that I remember the days of Apple prior to Steve Job's return and during, where we had the PPC macs, and they all had base memory that was way too low for most usages. Most people had to upgrade the ram and even back then they charged a premium - the only difference between then and now, as we the consumer could buy ram from people other then Apple and after the sale.

Is 8GB too low, its workable, no question, and I think for light usage on the MBA, its more then adequate but in 2022, I think 16 is the bare minimum and 32 is something that would be best for many people. Just my opinion and truth be told, I don't think there's any wrong answer because you pick the configuration that works best for you.
 

Marsikus

macrumors 6502
Feb 12, 2020
262
224
AE
This all reminded me how some PC vendors were selling laptops equipped with only 256MB RAM and OEM Windows Vista, while bare minimum for Vista installation was 512.
 

jagolden

macrumors 68000
Feb 11, 2002
1,587
1,501
Spring for the 32, you won’t regret it.
If you do any video, audio, photo editing you’ll notice the difference. Multitasking with multiple applications open will go much smoother.
Different machine but I couldn’t stuff 64 into my iMac fast enough. Noticeable improvement.
 
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Mr. Dee

macrumors 603
Dec 4, 2003
5,990
12,840
Jamaica
OR
Its set so low that people then have to choose the more expensive option and thus Apple rakes in more profits.

I'm betting that Apple is fully aware of the whole "future proofing" idea and people more often then not spec up their configurations because, you know, you can't add more memory afterwards.
Not necessarily, my brother has the 4 port 13 inch 2017 MacBook Pro and it’s 8 GBs. Two Co-workers I know with 2020 M1’s also have the standard 8 GB. My Early 2015 MBP is also 8 GBs. My former roommate her 2017 Intel MBP was the base model 128 GB with 8GBs of RAM.

Anyone choosing higher spec ed models are usually a niche. Businesses on the other hand they go high specs. For instance I noticed some 2013 to 14 15 inch MBPs we threw away those were high specced models with 512 GB storage. But when you are not paying for it, who cares.

But when it’s out of pocket my observation is most settle for the standard config.
 

Alpha Centauri

macrumors 65816
Oct 13, 2020
1,446
1,142
i landed a 64gb 1tb m1 pro max 14 from microcenter for 2500 a month ago. there are deals here and there but i do admit its rare.
That's a great deal! Unfortunately I'm in DE and a comparatively specced BTO from a reseller here, show yours as
3649 (discounted from RRP of 4129).
 
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