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I’m seeing a lot of negative comments on crypto. For those who don’t know what they’re doing with crypto, don’t be in it, but it is fast becoming mainstream. If you stick with the blue chip coins or tokens, it is not gambling. It is gambling if you’re spending all of your money on meme coins, except maybe the OG meme, Dogecoin, which is fairly mature. With the advent of bitcoin and ethereum ETF’s, with more to come (probably Solana, Polygon, Cardano, Dogecoin, etc.), you’ll start to find a lot of your mutual funds are invested in crypto.

It’s good to learn more about crypto because it is about to boom with institutional investors flocking to it and including these investment options for their customers. Several large investment firms are now recommending their customers put at least 6% of their portfolios in crypto. There is a ton of money to be made. Consider this time frame to be the ground floor of crypto. An entire industry currently worth $3 trillion is expected to grow to $30 trillion by the end of the decade, matching that of gold.
Crypto is mainly a pyramid scheme—probably the biggest in history. Have people made money with crypto? Of course, a few have made ungodly sums of money with crypto. The majority of people, though, will never make serious money with their investments in crypto.
The primary function of crypto is currently to finance organized crime worldwide. To finance cybercrime, human trafficking, and dictatorships like North Korea.
 
Crypto is mainly a pyramid scheme—probably the biggest in history. Have people made money with crypto? Of course, a few have made ungodly sums of money with crypto. The majority of people, though, will never make serious money with their investments in crypto.
The primary function of crypto is currently to finance organized crime worldwide. To finance cybercrime, human trafficking, and dictatorships like North Korea.
Count me as one of those who has made ungodly sums with crypto, and I’m not a drug lord or dictator. I’m just a retired former software engineer. Learn about it and you’ll find it’s not much different than other investments like stocks and bonds, only it’s more volatile and far more dependent on cycles. Crypto runs in four year cycles centered around the bitcoin halvings, and with any modicum of discipline, you can rake in tons of money without being a crime lord.

Here’s a little known fact. Everyone who has bought and held bitcoin for at least four years is in the black, no matter when it was bought. Even if you bought at the very top in the last cycle, you’ve still made a profit. If you had bought Solana at its low of $8 in the last cycle, you’d be seeing huge profits as it recently broke its all-time high of $265 and is currently at around $230. My Dogecoin, which I bought four years ago, is worth 3 times what I paid for it. My bitcoin ETF’s have more than doubled their value and ETF’s were only approved by the SEC this year. I dabble in meme coins but the real money has been made in the blue chips. All I did was buy and hold with no day trading or any weird schemes just like most people do with their regular stocks and mutual funds.

It is in no way a pyramid scheme, any more than an ordinary stock is. You buy it at a sum from someone who sells it and you sell it to someone else who wants to buy it, all done on exchanges. If you stick with the blue chips, you are dealing with a fairly reputable investment. If you want to mess with shady tokens, you are risking everything, but that’s no different from investing in junk stocks or junk bonds or even venture capital.

At least two countries consider bitcoin legal tender and multiple countries are in the process of establishing bitcoin as a strategic reserve. Large corporations are investing heavily in bitcoin in order to create their own reserves. If you don’t want to invest in it, don’t. But you’ll be left behind in a nascent industry that will at least 10X in the next few years with bitcoin projected to reach $15 million by 2050. Right now, maybe 5% of US residents are invested. Within the next ten years, expect that to go up to at least 50%. I really don’t care if you invest or not, but don’t dismiss it out of hand as I did six years ago, thinking it was a scam. My only regret is not getting into it much earlier when bitcoin was around $1000. I’d be flying around in a private jet now if I had only started a few years earlier.
 
I’m seeing a lot of negative comments on crypto. For those who don’t know what they’re doing with crypto, don’t be in it, but it is fast becoming mainstream. If you stick with the blue chip coins or tokens, it is not gambling. It is gambling if you’re spending all of your money on meme coins, except maybe the OG meme, Dogecoin, which is fairly mature. With the advent of bitcoin and ethereum ETF’s, with more to come (probably Solana, Polygon, Cardano, Dogecoin, etc.), you’ll start to find a lot of your mutual funds are invested in crypto.

It’s good to learn more about crypto because it is about to boom with institutional investors flocking to it and including these investment options for their customers. Several large investment firms are now recommending their customers put at least 6% of their portfolios in crypto. There is a ton of money to be made. Consider this time frame to be the ground floor of crypto. An entire industry currently worth $3 trillion is expected to grow to $30 trillion by the end of the decade, matching that of gold.

Crypto is not an investment. It is not mainstream, though proponents desperately want it to appear as though it is so they can encourage more dupes to buy in. The only source of value in crypto is other people's principal. There is no source of growth beyond the initial ante.

It is not an investment so much as it is a currency that can buy nothing but other currencies.

It is absolutely gambling. You are betting that you will be able to time the market better than other people. It is a slightly less than zero sum game-- any money made by one person is necessarily lost by another while everyone is constantly losing a little bit in maintenance fees to the miners recomputing the ledger.
 
you’ll find it’s not much different than other investments like stocks and bonds

Stocks gain value because the company they represent a partial ownership of gain value through actual profits or the expectation of future profits. Bonds gain value because the issuer pays interest on the debt. Both have an outside source of new growth and value. Crypto has no outside sources of growth-- they only build on the principal of new participants. That is the definition of a pyramid scheme.
 
I’m seeing a lot of negative comments on crypto. For those who don’t know what they’re doing with crypto, don’t be in it, but it is fast becoming mainstream. If you stick with the blue chip coins or tokens, it is not gambling. It is gambling if you’re spending all of your money on meme coins, except maybe the OG meme, Dogecoin, which is fairly mature. With the advent of bitcoin and ethereum ETF’s, with more to come (probably Solana, Polygon, Cardano, Dogecoin, etc.), you’ll start to find a lot of your mutual funds are invested in crypto.

It’s good to learn more about crypto because it is about to boom with institutional investors flocking to it and including these investment options for their customers. Several large investment firms are now recommending their customers put at least 6% of their portfolios in crypto. There is a ton of money to be made. Consider this time frame to be the ground floor of crypto. An entire industry currently worth $3 trillion is expected to grow to $30 trillion by the end of the decade, matching that of gold.
The negative comments are the ones who regret not buying BTC sub 20k.
 
Crypto is not an investment. It is not mainstream, though proponents desperately want it to appear as though it is so they can encourage more dupes to buy in. The only source of value in crypto is other people's principal. There is no source of growth beyond the initial ante.

It is not an investment so much as it is a currency that can buy nothing but other currencies.

It is absolutely gambling. You are betting that you will be able to time the market better than other people. It is a slightly less than zero sum game-- any money made by one person is necessarily lost by another while everyone is constantly losing a little bit in maintenance fees to the miners recomputing the ledger.
It's not even a currency because very few places will accept it in exchange for 'real' goods and services.

When you use your dollars to buy UK Pounds, you are directly buying another currency that can be used to buy goods and services in that country (you are swapping one currency for another). When you buy Crypto, you are giving someone USD to transfer their already owned crypto to your wallet. The only thing you can do with that crypto is sell it in the future for hopefully more than you paid for it. As the crypto itself has no use, you are relying on your 'buyer' to believe the value of the coin will go up. As soon as that belief vanishes, people won't buy the coin at any price during the slow decline; because they know the price won't ever increase and any amount of money they pay for the coin will be lost.
 
not that bad - as the sale will be done with your anonymized device specific card number.
Depends on the spread they are giving you.
 
Crypto is mainly a pyramid scheme—probably the biggest in history. Have people made money with crypto? Of course, a few have made ungodly sums of money with crypto. The majority of people, though, will never make serious money with their investments in crypto.
The primary function of crypto is currently to finance organized crime worldwide. To finance cybercrime, human trafficking, and dictatorships like North Korea.
Reportedly, even US Aid is being laundered with crypto and moved elsewhere🤣 But we are yet to see real data on this in following months, probably gonna be huge scandal
 
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>> Coinbase says that Coinbase Onramp users can expect a faster end-to-end experience with fiat-to-crypto conversion that takes seconds << But the reverse is not true or ever will be.... The nature of a distributed currency system is that the transactions will never be as fast as credit/debit payments..
 
It is in no way a pyramid scheme, any more than an ordinary stock is. You buy it at a sum from someone who sells it and you sell it to someone else who wants to buy it, all done on exchanges.
I would not compare it to a pyramid scheme. I think a much better analogy is collectible items like Beanie Babies or more recently limited edition sneakers. As long as they are in fashion, a lot of money can be made, sure. I won't make a prediction about the rise or fall of crypto here. I am very curious, though, what will happen when the world economy suffers a serious recession. It should be very interesting what investors will then think about the economic value of their crypto holdings.
 
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It's because it's gambling disguised as currency ;)
1 in 10 "thumbs downed" my comments... LOL. good odds and point proven

OK so now 2 "thumbs down" out of 18... and goof to see "SteveJObs" is managing to have input from beyond...
;)
 
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Stocks gain value because the company they represent a partial ownership of gain value through actual profits or the expectation of future profits. Bonds gain value because the issuer pays interest on the debt. Both have an outside source of new growth and value. Crypto has no outside sources of growth-- they only build on the principal of new participants. That is the definition of a pyramid scheme.

The stock market is built exactly the way you describe crypto: “they only build on the principal of new participants.” The stock market is a zero-sum game and only goes up when new money comes in and goes down when people sell their stocks and withdraw their money from the market. If an exchange is closed, no trading takes place and the prices of all stocks don’t change until trading is open again. I’m guessing you don’t own any stocks since you think stocks are a pyramid scheme. Stocks are purely priced based on a buy/sell order through supply and demand. The price of crypto is determined exactly the same as stocks.

Bitcoin’s valuation is based on pretty much the same thing all commodities are based on, e.g. gold. In other words, people base the value on its intrinsic characteristics just like gold and they buy and sell accordingly. That’s one reason why the SEC has declared crypto coins to be a commodity, not a security. It’s also why people call bitcoin, digital gold. I’m guessing you own no commodities like gold or silver since those are pyramid schemes, too. The value of gold doesn’t change unless someone buys or sells it with new money entering the market or money leaving the market. Gold prices don’t rise on their own. Neither do stocks or bonds or any other investment.

I suppose BlackRock buys billions worth of bitcoin because they want to be fleeced? Virtually every major investment company alows people to invest in bitcoin and ethereum ETF’s and will probably allow others once the SEC approves them. Even Vanguard, the last holdout, finally gave in after their CEO left and is investing in bitcoin. I suppose the SEC approved bitcoin and ethereum ETF’s because they believe it’s a pyramid scheme? Those bitcoin ETF’s are legitimately traded on exchanges and are rapidly filling up the investment portfolios of the country’s largest investment firms and make those available to their customers. I suppose you know better than they do since they make them available to their customers because they want their clients to lose money. The investment company I use allows trading in BlackRock, Fidelity, and Grayscale bitcoin ETF’s as well as Grayscale’s two ethereum ETF’s, and are evaluating others before offering them for sale by doing their due diligence.

In another comparison with gold, the only way the supply of gold increases is if someone mines it out of the ground. Similarly, computers hash algorithms for bitcoin in what’s called mining (essentially they are processing transactions) in order to generate more bitcoin. As a reward for solving these equations, they are awarded mining blocks of that crypto. Miners produce 450 bitcoin a day to put into the market with no more than 21 million that will ever exist. It currently has a lower inflation rate than gold does. I won’t bother discussing the difference between Proof of Work and Proof of Stake except to say bitcoin is an example of the former while ethereum is an example of the latter.
 
1 in 10 "thumbs downed" my comments... LOL. good odds and point proven ;)
Gambling is a poor word choice. Gambling involves known odds in favor of the House where you risk your money based on those known odds against you. The longer you play, the more likely the House will take your money based on those odds. For instance, playing the pass line without free odds in craps has a House advantage of 1.51% in favor of the House. The longer you play, the closer the House gets to taking 1.51% of your money. The only way to win at gambling is to play for short periods of time so the odds don’t catch up to you.

Like stocks, bonds, or other commodities, there are no known odds for any crypto. The amount of time you “play” has no bearing on whether you can make money or lose money. Currency can be a good word choice for certain coins, but not others. For instance, Ethereum layer one makes for a very poor currency while Dogecoin makes for a very good one.
 
Somewhere there's a joke about using Apple Pay to buy tulip bulbs, but I'd rather not invite the ire of the masses who are no-doubt enjoying the latest "valuations".

Historians aren't going to be kind when they write about us.

Go ahead...let the 'thumbs down' begin...I promise not to be a jerk on the way down, I just ask people not to be a jerk on the way up. Enjoy the ride for what it is.

At least the tulip bubble wasn’t funded by international criminals holding business data for ransom to pump money into their scheme.
 
Back to the topic on hand, Apple Pay seems to offer only one advantage over ACH transactions on Coinbase. Coinbase, based on your trading volume, allows you a certain amount of ACH transactions per month, dollar-wise, and if you exceed that amount, you can’t add any more money. With Apple Pay, it’s unfortunate you can’t use credit cards, but a debit card would allow you to bypass that ACH limitation, allowing you to trade with however much you have in your bank account. I suppose that’s worth it since I’ve been locked out of Coinbase before since I hit my ACH limit and had to wait a period of time for it to drop off.
 
It's not even a currency because very few places will accept it in exchange for 'real' goods and services.

When you use your dollars to buy UK Pounds, you are directly buying another currency that can be used to buy goods and services in that country (you are swapping one currency for another). When you buy Crypto, you are giving someone USD to transfer their already owned crypto to your wallet. The only thing you can do with that crypto is sell it in the future for hopefully more than you paid for it. As the crypto itself has no use, you are relying on your 'buyer' to believe the value of the coin will go up. As soon as that belief vanishes, people won't buy the coin at any price during the slow decline; because they know the price won't ever increase and any amount of money they pay for the coin will be lost.

That's why I referred to it as "a currency that can buy nothing but other currencies" in the post you quoted. For all the "independence from fiat currencies" that gets talked about you can really only, with only the most minor of exceptions, buy fiat currency with it.
 
This is awesome! This removes a lot of friction to oboarding people and businesses to crypto. Many small businesses loses 3% per transaction to card fees. With coinbase and $USDC these fees are essentially zero which would increase bottom line of low margin businesses.

People like to call crypto gambling or tulip mania, but that cant be any further from the truth. Tulip mania lasted 3 years. Major crypto currencies like BTC and ETH have been around for a decade plus.

I think this is a great partnership and hoping apple moves into crypto space within their wallet app.
 
The stock market is built exactly the way you describe crypto: “they only build on the principal of new participants.” The stock market is a zero-sum game and only goes up when new money comes in and goes down when people sell their stocks and withdraw their money from the market. If an exchange is closed, no trading takes place and the prices of all stocks don’t change until trading is open again. I’m guessing you don’t own any stocks since you think stocks are a pyramid scheme. Stocks are purely priced based on a buy/sell order through supply and demand. The price of crypto is determined exactly the same as stocks.

Bitcoin’s valuation is based on pretty much the same thing all commodities are based on, e.g. gold. In other words, people base the value on its intrinsic characteristics just like gold and they buy and sell accordingly. That’s one reason why the SEC has declared crypto coins to be a commodity, not a security. It’s also why people call bitcoin, digital gold. I’m guessing you own no commodities like gold or silver since those are pyramid schemes, too. The value of gold doesn’t change unless someone buys or sells it with new money entering the market or money leaving the market. Gold prices don’t rise on their own. Neither do stocks or bonds or any other investment.

I suppose BlackRock buys billions worth of bitcoin because they want to be fleeced? Virtually every major investment company alows people to invest in bitcoin and ethereum ETF’s and will probably allow others once the SEC approves them. Even Vanguard, the last holdout, finally gave in after their CEO left and is investing in bitcoin. I suppose the SEC approved bitcoin and ethereum ETF’s because they believe it’s a pyramid scheme? Those bitcoin ETF’s are legitimately traded on exchanges and are rapidly filling up the investment portfolios of the country’s largest investment firms and make those available to their customers. I suppose you know better than they do since they make them available to their customers because they want their clients to lose money. The investment company I use allows trading in BlackRock, Fidelity, and Grayscale bitcoin ETF’s as well as Grayscale’s two ethereum ETF’s, and are evaluating others before offering them for sale by doing their due diligence.

In another comparison with gold, the only way the supply of gold increases is if someone mines it out of the ground. Similarly, computers hash algorithms for bitcoin in what’s called mining (essentially they are processing transactions) in order to generate more bitcoin. As a reward for solving these equations, they are awarded mining blocks of that crypto. Miners produce 450 bitcoin a day to put into the market with no more than 21 million that will ever exist. It currently has a lower inflation rate than gold does. I won’t bother discussing the difference between Proof of Work and Proof of Stake except to say bitcoin is an example of the former while ethereum is an example of the latter.

It's amazing to me how many people try to argue that crypto and stocks are the same because they both go up and they both go down and you buy and sell each. Stocks represent ownership of an underlying asset, crypto does not. If I bought a share of Apple 20 years ago and still owned that share now, the underlying asset increased in value: Apple owns more real estate and structures, they own more patents and IP, they have greater brand value and a stronger ability to sell, they own media content and they own a massive supply chain and pipeline to deliver product. Yes there is fluctuation around the current enterprise value that reflects some speculation based on future performance, but it has an underlying, intrinsic value.

If I bought a bitcoin 20 years ago and still owned it now, it has no intrinsic value. It is only worth more today than it was then because the most recent person made an unsecured deposit of a larger amount. It is a pyramid scheme.

Gold is fetishized as an investment and its cost far exceeds its intrinsic value because of intensive marketing, a lack of understanding of how money and macro-economics work, and a general nostalgia for the olden days. Still, like real estate, gold does have an intrinsic value and is also scarce. It is, in itself, useful for many things that gold alone can be used for and there is a limited amount of it to be used for those purposes.

Crypto is not scarce as evidenced by the number new coins that keep getting sold all the freaking time. There is only one element in the periodic table with the atomic configuration of gold. There are many coins that are essentially the same nothingness with different names and there's no real barrier to creating another one and marketing it in competition to the existing set. Bitcoin is a brand name but the coin itself is nothing special beyond the brand loyalty it brings.

The halvenings are just more mysticism around a reduction in maintenance fees. Nobody expects an investment to double if the maintenance fees are cut incrementally. It's an opportunity for hype though and any impact that has on the price is more indication of its poor investment quality.

You, and much of the crypto community, are confusing inflation with the monetary base. The monetary base is a measure of how many units of a currency are in circulation. The monetary base of bitcoin increases with mining. Inflation is a measure of price stability which is not the same thing at all.

From January 2022 to January 2023, BTC denominated prices doubled. A 100% inflation rate. That does not make bitcoin a good refuge from the 7 to 9% the USD was seeing.

As far as restricting the monetary base, we learned some important lessons in the 1930s about the downsides of that strategy as well. If you're proposing a currency more restricted than gold, you'd expect Great-er Depressions to follow.

Investment companies hold crypto because their customers want them to. They make their profits whether their customers win or lose on the trades as long as they manage the assets. If governments, particularly large governments, begin holding crypto reserves then crypto prices will go up which is not the vindication you might think it is, it would simply amount to a massive transfer of wealth from taxpayers to individual crypto holders.
 
Gambling is a poor word choice. Gambling involves known odds in favor of the House where you risk your money based on those known odds against you. The longer you play, the more likely the House will take your money based on those odds. For instance, playing the pass line without free odds in craps has a House advantage of 1.51% in favor of the House. The longer you play, the closer the House gets to taking 1.51% of your money. The only way to win at gambling is to play for short periods of time so the odds don’t catch up to you.

Like stocks, bonds, or other commodities, there are no known odds for any crypto. The amount of time you “play” has no bearing on whether you can make money or lose money. Currency can be a good word choice for certain coins, but not others. For instance, Ethereum layer one makes for a very poor currency while Dogecoin makes for a very good one.
gambling does not involve known odds.

odds change on horse racing for a start over time based on number of bets being placed.

no crytpo is a "good" currency. it's all a gamble.
and people have won big and lost big.

and winners rely on others losing.
 
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