College Bound what do I need??

[profcutter]

((As a prof you should know better than to assume that what worked in 2023 will be appropriate in 2027+, which is the time frame specified by the OP. Even if you are teaching LA courses (which I do not denigrate) you should read up on Apple's [superb] Unified Memory Architecture and also on where AI seems to be going.

Apple gives us a hint as to where things are going with the fact that today's MBP max is 128 GB RAM. Mac OS and apps RAM needs have increased every year for 40 years now. New buyers should plan accordingly, for the future.

For the FUTURE (exciting when it’s in bold, no?) the OP should probably buy a new machine then, that meets the future needs, not now, when this bold faced future may or may not happen. Yeah it’s true, that 2013 was top of the line in 2013. Not in 2015, not in 2019, or when I finally replaced it in 2021, with a refurb M1 Max, and I only got the Mac because I actually use 3 displays.

I’m not sure where all the excitement is coming from here. I offered my advice as a professor, teaching at the same institution for 12 years now. I’m sure all of my students are kicking themselves for not buying maxed-out laptops. Or maybe not at all.

We can get into the relative merit of one discipline versus another, though MR is probably not the right forum.

I used to believe in future proofing too. A couple things happened: one, it was waaaaay easier to future proof with intel, since you knew no major changes were coming down the line any time soon. With Apple silicon, I really have no idea what kind of change an m6 or m7 might represent. Second, apple laptops got extremely pricey, with little wiggle room unless you’re willing to buy a machine a couple years out of date. Third, I realized I’m not a “power user” anymore. Video editing can easily be accomplished on an m1, or an M1 Max, I’m not suffering by not having an m3 machine. So we’ve hit kind of a plateau. Machines are actually getting to be “fast enough” for my usage. Intel was never that way, you always felt like “if only it could do… in realtime” I can push M1 Max to a crawl in Davinci resolve, but it takes some effort. Given what I’ve seen of student projects, and I’ve seen a lot of them in my day, I’ve never seen one that couldn’t have been done on an
M1, and if they need more than that the faculty should make that clear.

I’m not sure why you’re so hot and bothered, the OP will buy whatever they feel like in the end, I can’t imagine being so worked up about which model of laptop someone else buys.

 

[apostolosdt]

In 2024, all major brands’ computers will remain functional well past ten years. Today’s machines are outdated by their OS and apps run. That’s your concern.

 

[Minghold]

In 2024, all major brands’ computers will remain functional well past ten years.

That part is not true, as soldered SSDs and internal serial number-checking (to thwart independent parts repair) are deliberate planned-obsolescence engineering by Apple. When the SSD fails, the whole machine is a brick, by design.

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

As other sensible minds in here have mentioned, you're never going to upgrade or repair this machine as everything is soldered in and will stop getting OS upgrades from Apple in x number of years. Not tomorrow, but certainly no sooner than 3-10 years. Security updates should then cease in a few years after that.

So don't overspend on the latest, greatest and over-spec'ed and get AppleCare to baby it. Get the cheapest M1 256/8 Air and save that money for something better. Like the computer that will replace this one in 3-7 years.

Any Mac you buy is consumable and soon obsolete. Don't play along with the "future-proofing" narrative. There's no future-proofing until the EU forces it upon big tech. And those computers will not reach store shelves anytime soon if ever.

For now, it's all consumable and obsolete in a few years. You should buy with that mindset, spending as little as possible, and only getting what you need.

M1 Air is a perfect compromise between something inexpensive and highly capable.

 

[OneSon]

Macbook Air and a ton of beer son.

 

[apostolosdt]

That part is not true, as soldered SSDs and internal serial number-checking (to thwart independent parts repair) are deliberate planned-obsolescence engineering by Apple. When the SSD fails, the whole machine is a brick, by design.

That's quite a bold remark. Interested to hear more about how such a task is achieved, engineering-wise of course.

 

[Ameer_1]

Don't forget the Apple Education Discount
Base Model
Mac Air M3 $999
Mac Pro M3 $1499
https://www.apple.com/us-edu/store

 

[Alameda]

Partially true. But I have the advice originally that led to that and I started with a THINKPAD is better for business majors.

And I think if someone is asking for advice, they can take what the person is saying in relation to that advice. If they can’t, just ignore it.

People are always concerned too much about stuff as someone who has been through it, I wouldn’t waste $0.02 on a college course today. I can get a better education by taking a course focused on what it is that I want to do. In a college, you take a bunch of crap courses that have nothing to do with the major. Most of it isn’t necessary and a lot of it isn’t good for one’s outlook on life and indoctrination is par for the course at most of these universities. It’s sad.

But you might actually learn something by taking a wide array of courses taught by experts in their respective field. And maybe that will broaden your narrow perspectives and give you insights and thinking skills which you otherwise couldn’t obtain. Maybe interacting with other students studying the same material will help you learn it better, and give you perspectives you hadn’t considered.
I love my university education. It formed me. I studied Hamlet from a TA who was passionate about it. I learned astronomy from a professor who designed parts of the Hubble telescope. I learned City Planning from an actual city planner. I studied ancient Roman literature from a man who’d read the original Latin texts. I learned about wormholes directly from Stephen Hawking. And on and on.

I’ve worked in the tech industry for over two decades now. I have taken on roles across the organizations I‘ve worked in, from marketing to sales to engineering to senior management. There’s nothing I cannot do and nothing I cannot learn. You will not develop those skills by staring at a screen alone in a room. It’s been proven that educational achievement dropped substantially during the pandemic, and even if you are a highly motivated self-learner, you will not learn as much alone as you can by interacting with other people.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Better: learn how to make a bootable backup of your laptop's drive to a USB external.

This, x 2 !!! Most of us with graduate degrees knew someone who lost hundreds of hours of thesis work due to failure to diligently back up laptop mass storage. Backup daily should be routine, with weekly to an off site location (trunk of the car, gym locker or whatever). Cloud backup is good only if privacy is of no concern.

 

[ThailandToo]

Don't forget the Apple Education Discount
Base Model
Mac Air M3 $999
Mac Pro M3 $1499
https://www.apple.com/us-edu/store

How about the sale at Amazon, where you save more than Apple gives with education discounts?

 

[ChrisA]

College bound… what do I need

Will be attending college this August and I’m looking for a computer that will last throughout 4 years. Will be using this as an education device and media YouTube tv device.

Should I wait for new systems or do you recommend existing devices? Thinking 13-15inch max size due to weight etc…

Would be using outside as well so screen brightness matters.

Thanks in advance!

Consider getting an iPad. If you are going to use it in class, an iPad and pencil work better. Typing is not as good as writing by hand. You don't need an expensive one for note-taking.

You will also need a computer, but if you have an iPad then the computert does not need to be some small and light as you will not be carrying it around with you all day. A desktop might even work. (maybe)

I was a student not too many years ago. I went back to grad school at age 50+ and found the university has Apple iMacs all over on rooms in different buildinga nd in the library. If you keep you daya on some cloud service then any one of these public-use computers can run. I would sign on and them my desktop would appear. There was not much need to haul a notebook around so might stayed at home

But you will need a computer, the question is if you need to cary it around all the time. I hope not. And as I said, pencils work better then keyboards in class

 

[ChrisA]

This, x 2 !!! Most of us with graduate degrees knew someone who lost hundreds of hours of thesis work due to failure to diligently back up laptop mass storage. Backup daily should be routine, with weekly to an off site location (trunk of the car, gym locker or whatever). Cloud backup is good only if privacy is of no concern.

Daily??? Time Machine runs hourly and it sautomatic anbd runs in the background.

Then, I ask why one Earth would someone store data on their computer when there are services like iCloud. If the data is on the computer then you can only access it if you have that computer near you. If the data is on some cloud service then any computer on Earth that has Internet access is good to get the data.

Cloud backup and even full tie use is not a privacy issue if the data is encrypted at your end before it is sent.

Most people will use some kind of a redundant system where quite a few things would have to go wrong before they could lose data. A common rule is that "the data shall always exist on at least three different physical meadia and at least two geographical locations." This is the dead-minimum.

But Daily and weekly??? Not today we use continuous backups that run by themselves in the background.

 

[ChrisA]

I’m afraid I’d disagree with much of this advice. I‘m a professor at a university, you really don’t need more machine than the college recommends. 16GB of RAM is never a bad idea, but saying minimum 24 seems overkill for what most students do. Unless business finance relies heavily on specific software, you’re probably better off saving money for a larger screen for spreadsheets and trading software than blowing money on an overpowered laptop. I’m not sure what you mean that you shouldn’t “cheap out,” what’s the point in spending money on extra GPU cores you’ll never use, or 96GB of RAM to take notes, watch YouTube videos, and crunch numbers? How will a Max help a student managing large excel files?

I mean, I teach at a self-styled “elite” liberal arts college, and the students have the latest Pro Max iphones, but most are happy with 13 inch MacBook airs that they bling out with covers and stickers. A large laptop is a rarity, and most of them just use the labs if they have need of any major computing power. Even so, a MacBook Air can do most of what they need, and if you’re using things like GIS, you need a PC or remote access anyway. Even if you’re doing film studies, an iPad with Davinci can do 99 percent of what you need, and you can use the labs for that last 1 percent that you’re doing with partners anyway.

I agree. I was both a student and in teaching a few years go. As a teacher I'm many times use Chromebooks in a lab. There were very low-spec computers but for what students do they worked well. Many people would use iPads.

the advice to over-spec the comuter is wrong. It is absolutly the case that if the computer is too big you will not cary it with you. Many times "too big" means it does not fit on those tiny tables that are biult into some chassroom chairs. Some of them are only about a foot square. There are times when you will want a larger screen. So buy a 27" monitor and leave it where ever you live. With the money ypou save by NOT over-buying a computer you can buy an iPad. and a $16 pencil from Amazon (not the $80 Apple one unless you are into digital art.)

 

[HDFan]

I ask why one Earth would someone store data on their computer when there are services like iCloud.

Because iCloud is not a backup service and thus can't be included in a 3-2-1 backup strategy. Can't put an iCloud database in your safe deposit box.

 

[dk001]

College bound… what do I need

Will be attending college this August and I’m looking for a computer that will last throughout 4 years. Will be using this as an education device and media YouTube tv device.

Should I wait for new systems or do you recommend existing devices? Thinking 13-15inch max size due to weight etc…

Would be using outside as well so screen brightness matters.

Thanks in advance!

I recently asked that question in my grand-daughter’s case (incoming freshman this fall) and the college’s reply was that anything will work. But … depending on her major, there are some classes where the software is not available for a Mac.

They also recommended not to go high end as between theft, losing it, and breakage, chances of it lasting for all 4-5 years is slim.

 

[Richu]

Partially true. But I have the advice originally that led to that and I started with a THINKPAD is better for business majors.

And I think if someone is asking for advice, they can take what the person is saying in relation to that advice. If they can’t, just ignore it.

People are always concerned too much about stuff as someone who has been through it, I wouldn’t waste $0.02 on a college course today. I can get a better education by taking a course focused on what it is that I want to do. In a college, you take a bunch of crap courses that have nothing to do with the major. Most of it isn’t necessary and a lot of it isn’t good for one’s outlook on life and indoctrination is par for the course at most of these universities. It’s sad.

I think it varies a lot depending on the details.

In my country education is free and you get a grant from the state to pursue higher education.

I don’t think I’ve applied any of the engineering/physics/math courses in my career beyond the very basic math. Also the business/economics courses started being useless past the first three courses (although those helped a lot). While it’s a “top education” (e.g. you need to max out all selection criteria) the curriculum itself is copied in lots of other universities/degrees.

But - The average career trajectory for the graduates is way beyond anyone with a “normal” education and eons away from anyone without any higher education. Alumni usually end up being CEOs. With that said it’s not given, but on average it’s a more conventionally successful path.

I personally think the upside (at least for my education) was the network and “stamp of approval” (has given me a lot of well paying stimulating jobs), the self confidence in technical problems and analysis (anything I take on now is a walk in the park compared to the physics courses).

Can’t speak for the value of other educations though - it all depends on the details

 

[Minghold]

That part is not true, as soldered SSDs and internal serial number-checking (to thwart independent parts repair) are deliberate planned-obsolescence engineering by Apple. When the SSD fails, the whole machine is a brick, by design.

That's quite a bold remark.Interested to hear more about how such a task is achieved, engineering-wise of course.

Louis, take it away....

"The advertiser-friendly youtubers are that way; this is the autistic-nerd section!"

(And subscribe to his channel.)

 

[chrono1081]

Get a surface pro.

Why even suggest that when he obviously wants a Mac?

 

[Minghold]

Because iCloud is not a backup service and thus can't be included in a 3-2-1 backup strategy. Can't put an iCloud database in your safe deposit box.

Because "the cloud" is an intelligence-agency's server-farm. (Oh, but you have passwords, right? That's cute. No way those can be broken, eh?)

Anything that a mega-billion-dollar corporation (otherwise soaking you to the bone) is prompting you to use for free is there at your detriment.

 

[cardfan]

Why even suggest that when he obviously wants a Mac?

Did he mention a Mac? Just the size device he wanted and needs to be bright.

But as I posted again I’m not even sure why he’s asking given he owns a 16 MacBook. Any pc laptop or MacBook will do.

 

[specialstyle]

College bound… what do I need

Will be attending college this August and I’m looking for a computer that will last throughout 4 years. Will be using this as an education device and media YouTube tv device.

Should I wait for new systems or do you recommend existing devices? Thinking 13-15inch max size due to weight etc…

Would be using outside as well so screen brightness matters.

Thanks in advance!

I just came across this, yes you can absolutely get an existing system and it will be more than enough. The screens on the newer models are fantastic across the board (I just answered a similar post on reddit) -- the new machines are so insanely powerful that even the older M1 chips are super fast when compared to the i9s of that era -- I think the most important thing to focus on is that it's the right size.... I just upgraded from a 2012 15" to the 14" MacBook pro with M3 Pro inside. I was on the fence about the 16 because it's gorgeous -- but the weight and size makes it a lot harder to carry around and since the specs between the two models is more or less identical I figured i'd save a little and get the one that I need more than the one that I want... if that makes sense. Good luck!

 

[Minghold]

the new machines are so insanely powerful that even the older M1 chips are super fast when compared to the i9s of that era

There's no such thing as a moderate-speed (let alone slow-speed) i9 processor of any vintage. They are all blazingly fast, and, as far as I know, Apple never equipped i9s in any machine lacking an SSD.

But you don't need an SSD or an Mx silicon or an i9 or an i7 or an i5 or even an i3 to type papers and spreadsheets. You can run Office2019 in MacOS High Sierra on a $40 Craigslist special 2008 core2duo iMac. It won't be fast, but it'll still be quicker than your average finance-major's typing speed.

First rule of finance-majoring for students whose fathers aren't named Daddy Warbucks: pinch those pennies, and stay out of debt.

 

[wonderings]

Any older machine is going to run into issues when you need any new software. Also problems with secure browsers and going about all the steps to work around that. Just leads to more and more headaches. I would simply look for a used affordable M1 MacBook Pro or Air. The big benefit with the battery and going all day without needing to plug in is a huge advantage over any previous Intel MacBook laptop.

 

[Minghold]

Any older machine is going to run into issues when you need any new software.

In my experience, 99% of the time my customer thinks they need new software, it's because they're unaware of existing software.

Also problems with secure browsers and going about all the steps to work around that.

Install Chromium-legacy, and all done. (Runs on MacOS's as old as Lion.) The "secure browser" bit of malarky ten years ago was a hatched scheme between the big hardware OEMs to force-obsolesce the stable, fast, and well-loved El Capitan and Windows 7 operating-systems.

Just leads to more and more headaches. I would simply look for a used affordable M1 MacBook Pro or Air. The big benefit with the battery and going all day without needing to plug in is a huge advantage over any previous Intel MacBook laptop.

Trust me when I tell you this: Apple will make your silicon laptop, that you're so proud of now, eat its battery with a near-future "update". Because Apple is Apple, and it's been doing that to every mobile device since they learned choking iPhones paid off with new iPhone sales. (Google has doing the same thing with Android updates for at least half a decade now.)

Getting more than a day's worth of battery life out of an old MB amounts to turning off the OS's background telemitry nonsense, starting with MRT and Spotlight Indexing. That, and not using an APFS OS.

 

[Alameda]

In my experience, 99% of the time my customer thinks they need new software, it's because they're unaware of existing software.

Install Chromium-legacy, and all done. (Runs on MacOS's as old as Lion.) The "secure browser" bit of malarky ten years ago was a hatched scheme between the big hardware OEMs to force-obsolesce the stable, fast, and well-loved El Capitan and Windows 7 operating-systems.

Trust me when I tell you this: Apple will make your silicon laptop, that you're so proud of now, eat its battery with a near-future "update". Because Apple is Apple, and it's been doing that to every mobile device since they learned choking iPhones paid off with new iPhone sales. (Google has doing the same thing with Android updates for at least half a decade now.)

Getting more than a day's worth of battery life out of an old MB amounts to turning off the OS's background telemitry nonsense, starting with MRT and Spotlight Indexing. That, and not using an APFS OS.

I disagree with your opinion.
I paid $1,700 for my college Mac SE in 1987, and it only had to floppy drives — no hard disk!

Today, for about $750 you can get a college student a lightweight laptop that will last all four years of school. No worries about compatibility or reliability, it will work rock solid with everything, except for students with very specialized requirements.