Compare Mojave vs Catalina in performance?

[honestone33]

i used to do clean installs... now i just update. and can't say i have any issues with the simpler procedure. the 12-step program above further convinces me that an update, ultimately, is a perfectly-fine thing to do.

That's fine for you. But I sure don't want to risk any "left over" issues from ANY prior versions of the Mac OS. For example, if one "only" updated from El Capitain to Sierra to High Sierra to Mojave, there could be a lot of "left over" and unwanted items from any of those versions of the Mac OS prior to Mojave. And now if one does it again to Catalina, another OS, Mojave, would be in that problematic mix.

Along with that, if one does not do very much (or as some folks do, none at all) disk cleanup/maintenance, that just makes the update process potentially more problematic.

I'll stick with the clean installation. As it is, the downloading of the new Mac OS and copying of it to another location is something one really needs to do no matter if they do a clean installation or an update. Also, I always, usually on Saturdays, go through the sequence of running Onyx and TechTool Pro, and then doing the backups. The only real extra steps are 1) booting to that SuperDuper! backup, 2) using Disk Utility to Erase and Format the internal SSD, and 3) doing the actual clean installation of the new Mac OS, along with the subsequent migration of needed information. I do understand the "attractiveness" of the update route, but as usual, doing things the longer (and not as convenient) way can be more beneficial. And of course the ultimate clincher is that I wind up with a clean system, with no issues.

 

[fisherking]

That's fine for you. But I sure don't want to risk any "left over" issues from ANY prior versions of the Mac OS. For example, if one "only" updated from El Capitain to Sierra to High Sierra to Mojave, there could be a lot of "left over" and unwanted items from any of those versions of the Mac OS prior to Mojave. And now if one does it again to Catalina, another OS, Mojave, would be in that problematic mix.

Along with that, if one does not do very much (or as some folks do, none at all) disk cleanup/maintenance, that just makes the update process potentially more problematic.

I'll stick with the clean installation. As it is, the downloading of the new Mac OS and copying of it to another location is something one really needs to do no matter if they do a clean installation or an update. Also, I always, usually on Saturdays, go through the sequence of running Onyx and TechTool Pro, and then doing the backups. The only real extra steps are 1) booting to that SuperDuper! backup, 2) using Disk Utility to Erase and Format the internal SSD, and 3) doing the actual clean installation of the new Mac OS, along with the subsequent migration of needed information. I do understand the "attractiveness" of the update route, but as usual, doing things the longer (and not as convenient) way can be more beneficial. And of course the ultimate clincher is that I wind up with a clean system, with no issues.

am not having any issues, and stopped doing clean installs several years ago. and which 'leftover and unwanted items' are you worried about?

apple designs the upgrades to be just that; upgrades. and while there's no harm in doing a clean install.. i prefer spending the day using my mac, not coddling it.

still... we have theses options, and whatever gets us where we need to be... seems fine.

 

[honestone33]

am not having any issues, and stopped doing clean installs several years ago. and which 'leftover and unwanted items' are you worried about?

That could somewhat depend upon on how "well" one takes care of their machine. Think about an automobile as an analogy: one can wash their car in two ways: one is to use an actual sponge with car detergent to wash the car (after of course first rinsing it off), and the other is to just spray it with water. In the first case, one is removing just about all the old dirt, grime, etc. In the second case, one is just covering up what was already there.

If one does not clean their machine on a regular basis (and there are many folks who don't. I have seen MANY instances of that through the years), then doing just an upgrade could leave some problematic files, folders, settings, etc. as they are. I certainly don't want that.

Given that I do both daily cleanup, and weekly maintenance/cleanup, I could be fine with just doing an upgrade. If I did that, though, I certainly would not continue to do just an upgrade with subsequent versions of the OS. I don't want to risk asking for trouble.

apple designs the upgrades to be just that; upgrades. and while there's no harm in doing a clean install.. i prefer spending the day using my mac, not coddling it.

In my case, when I do my maintenance/cleanup/backups tasks on Saturdays, I am also cleaning our townhome, ie, I am multi-tasking, and thus am not expecting to use either of my machines during that time. I would do the same with my clean installation process detailed above (most likely, I would have already downloaded the latest version of the full OS installation file, already copied it to another location, and then removed the original one from the Applications folder. So, the number of steps I would need for the full clean installation of the Mac OS would be decreased by two). And again, when doing this, I would multi-task by doing my normal cleaning of our place. Hence, I am not "giving up" the usage of either of my machines. In fact, even with all those steps, I would still not be done cleaning our place, and thus have not wasted any time at all.

still... we have theses options, and whatever gets us where we need to be... seems fine.

Yes, we do.

 

[fisherking]

That could somewhat depend upon on how "well" one takes care of their machine. Think about an automobile as an analogy: one can wash their car in two ways: one is to use an actual sponge with car detergent to wash the car (after of course first rinsing it off), and the other is to just spray it with water. In the first case, one is removing just about all the old dirt, grime, etc. In the second case, one is just covering up what was already there.

If one does not clean their machine on a regular basis (and there are many folks who don't. I have seen MANY instances of that through the years), then doing just an upgrade could leave some problematic files, folders, settings, etc. as they are. I certainly don't want that.

Given that I do both daily cleanup, and weekly maintenance/cleanup, I could be fine with just doing an upgrade. If I did that, though, I certainly would not continue to do just an upgrade with subsequent versions of the OS. I don't want to risk asking for trouble.



In my case, when I do my maintenance/cleanup/backups tasks on Saturdays, I am also cleaning our townhome, ie, I am multi-tasking, and thus am not expecting to use either of my machines during that time. I would do the same with my clean installation process detailed above (most likely, I would have already downloaded the latest version of the full OS installation file, already copied it to another location, and then removed the original one from the Applications folder. So, the number of steps I would need for the full clean installation of the Mac OS would be decreased by two). And again, when doing this, I would multi-task by doing my normal cleaning of our place. Hence, I am not "giving up" the usage of either of my machines. In fact, even with all those steps, I would still not be done cleaning our place, and thus have not wasted any time at all.



Yes, we do.

there's nothing wrong with obsession; i just prefer my life simpler, but... seems you have it under control.

 

[J.Gallardo]

... ways of life is not the subject.

I liked a lot and found useful honestone33's description of his/her procedure. I'm planning to have a dual boot system, and even not going to do the same way, I got a few ideas and better knowledge about cloning/upgrading/installing thanks to it.
(By the other hand, I still don't understand the convenience of having a system installer copy or thumbdrive. I rely on Recovery partition, and always thought it was a commodity to manage a few machine instead of just one...)
I keep learning and planning, but I'll wait Catalina to reach a more stable version.

 

[||\||]

I still don't understand the convenience of having a system installer copy or thumbdrive.

This is for users who have updated the OS beyond its original version, but are not running what is current. Apple will eventually remove public access to that OS installer, so it is helpful to save a copy for yourself.

 

[honestone33]

there's nothing wrong with obsession; i just prefer my life simpler, but... seems you have it under control.

Explain what you mean by "obsession". What is wrong with keeping things clean and orderly? I practice both of them no matter what the task is. And once one gets used to doing it, not really a chore anymore, nor not a burden. I do, though, believe in the KISS philosophy: Keep It Simple Stupid:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle

If by "simpler" you mean not doing much (if any) cleanup, OK, fine. Also, most folks prefer to take short cuts with tasks. I don't, as taking short cuts can cause you grief.
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... ways of life is not the subject.

I liked a lot and found useful honestone33's description of his/her procedure. I'm planning to have a dual boot system, and even not going to do the same way, I got a few ideas and better knowledge about cloning/upgrading/installing thanks to it.
(By the other hand, I still don't understand the convenience of having a system installer copy or thumbdrive. I rely on Recovery partition, and always thought it was a commodity to manage a few machine instead of just one...)
I keep learning and planning, but I'll wait Catalina to reach a more stable version.

Thank you! I appreciate it.
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This is for users who have updated the OS beyond its original version, but are not running what is current. Apple will eventually remove public access to that OS installer, so it is helpful to save a copy for yourself.

Yes, very, very accurate. But it also is useful even if it's the same current version, and one needs to do some kind of recovery after a "disaster" (as long as one has it on an external device).

 

[fisherking]

some people polish their cars, then drive them. others polish their cars, then polish them again. and again.

and some people just drive them. whatever works

 

[honestone33]

some people polish their cars, then drive them. others polish their cars, then polish them again. and again.

and some people just drive them. whatever works

Wow, such a clueless post! And while folks just drive their cars, without doing anything, such cars sure look filthy, and without much (if any) maintenance, they are just asking (in fact begging) for trouble.

Sure glad I don't follow such clueless and mindless thinking! And sure would not want such "non-polish" behavior to be a reflection of how I live. I much prefer the opposite view, ie, being clean.

 

[||\||]

Wow, such a clueless post! And while folks just drive their cars, without doing anything, such cars sure look filthy, and without much (if any) maintenance, they are just asking (in fact begging) for trouble.

Much like current operating systems, modern automobiles require very little maintenance compared to previous years. My Prius has been designed to possibly have the transmission fluid changed once in its life (though original fluid is considered as lifetime). The oil gets changed twice a year (synthetic). I might consider getting the coolant drained once, though this car is getting up in age. As with Mac OS, I don’t really have to do much of anything to this vehicle and it runs great. ?

 

[fisherking]

Wow, such a clueless post! And while folks just drive their cars, without doing anything, such cars sure look filthy, and without much (if any) maintenance, they are just asking (in fact begging) for trouble.

Sure glad I don't follow such clueless and mindless thinking! And sure would not want such "non-polish" behavior to be a reflection of how I live. I much prefer the opposite view, ie, being clean.

there is no harm in being overly cautious, paranoid, or obsessive about one's mac. enjoy!

 

[honestone33]

Much like current operating systems, modern automobiles require very little maintenance compared to previous years. My Prius has been designed to possibly have the transmission fluid changed once in its life (though original fluid is considered as lifetime). The oil gets changed twice a year (synthetic). I might consider getting the coolant drained once, though this car is getting up in age. As with Mac OS, I don’t really have to do much of anything to this vehicle and it runs great. ?

Yes, more modern cars do require less and less "frequent" maintenance. Our 2013 Camry needs the oil changed every 5000 miles, and the oil and oil filter changed every 10,000 miles. But our 2005 Mercedes CLK 320 (we bought it brand new, and still have it. Only has 70,000 miles on it) needs the oil and oil filter changed every 5,000 miles. However, there are some other items that also require checking/changing. Tire pressure is one obvious one, but I'd be surprised if many folks check it on some kind of regular basis. In fact, I'll bet very few do. I guess they prefer to wait until they have issues with their tires. The other two, Cabin Air Filter and Air Filter, also need to be changed at specific intervals. However, those items are not difficult to change, and I do it myself on both of our cars at the start of spring. Parts are certainly cheaper than than having it done elsewhere (especially at a dealership), along with labor.

One item, though, seems to be a step backwards: automobile batteries. In the "old" days, one had a much, much better indication of when a battery was going bad, with visible and serviceable water levels. These days, "modern" batteries are certainly a "closed" system. I had the battery changed on the Mercedes a little over 6 years ago, and as far as I can tell, external battery appearance (clean posts)) looks fine, and all the interior lights, including directional signal flashing, seem fine. And external lights are bright enough. I also use a Battery Tender once a month on it, and that seems to bring it up to full charge normally. Yet I am somewhat concerned that it could go bad at any moment.
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there is no harm in being overly cautious, paranoid, or obsessive about one's mac. enjoy!

Again, most of that is clueless! I am not being overly cautions, nor paranoid, nor obsessive with ANY of my cleaning/maintenance tasks. I am just exercising common sense (something that a lot of folks lack).

And for "external" cleaning, I certainly don't want the lack of doing it to be a reflection of my lifestyle, which is a clean, fresh one.

As for "internal" cleaning/maintenance, my post above about doing that for both of our automobiles should (if folks have an open mind and can see that) make that clear. Doing such tasks on our cars, my Macs, our appliances (when feasible), etc. insures that they last longer, and run fine. If you want to do less (or none) of that, be my guest. I'll just stick with using common sense.

 

[fisherking]

Yes, more modern cars do require less and less "frequent" maintenance. Our 2013 Camry needs the oil changed every 5000 miles, and the oil and oil filter changed every 10,000 miles. But our 2005 Mercedes CLK 320 (we bought it brand new, and still have it. Only has 70,000 miles on it) needs the oil and oil filter changed every 5,000 miles. However, there are some other items that also require checking/changing. Tire pressure is one obvious one, but I'd be surprised if many folks check it on some kind of regular basis. In fact, I'll bet very few do. I guess they prefer to wait until they have issues with their tires. The other two, Cabin Air Filter and Air Filter, also need to be changed at specific intervals. However, those items are not difficult to change, and I do it myself on both of our cars at the start of spring. Parts are certainly cheaper than than having it done elsewhere (especially at a dealership), along with labor.

One item, though, seems to be a step backwards: automobile batteries. In the "old" days, one had a much, much better indication of when a battery was going bad, with visible and serviceable water levels. These days, "modern" batteries are certainly a "closed" system. I had the battery changed on the Mercedes a little over 6 years ago, and as far as I can tell, external battery appearance (clean posts)) looks fine, and all the interior lights, including directional signal flashing, seem fine. And external lights are bright enough. I also use a Battery Tender once a month on it, and that seems to bring it up to full charge normally. Yet I am somewhat concerned that it could go bad at any moment.
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Again, most of that is clueless! I am not being overly cautions, nor paranoid, nor obsessive with ANY of my cleaning/maintenance tasks. I am just exercising common sense (something that a lot of folks lack).

And for "external" cleaning, I certainly don't want the lack of doing it to be a reflection of my lifestyle, which is a clean, fresh one.

As for "internal" cleaning/maintenance, my post above about doing that for both of our automobiles should (if folks have an open mind and can see that) make that clear. Doing such tasks on our cars, my Macs, our appliances (when feasible), etc. insures that they last longer, and run fine. If you want to do less (or none) of that, be my guest. I'll just stick with using common sense.

your version of 'common sense' may not be everyone's; and lots of people, pros, amateurs.. use their macs without running onyx, or doing clean installs... and do just fine.

seriously, do what works for you. just allow others to do what works for them...

 

[honestone33]

your version of 'common sense' may not be everyone's; and lots of people, pros, amateurs.. use their macs without running onyx, or doing clean installs... and do just fine.

seriously, do what works for you. just allow others to do what works for them...

Remember, you are the one who started with the obsessive, paranoid, coddling statements, not me. I have never said that the tasks I follow are perfect, not have I ever said they are for everyone. But you are the one who expressed your "disagreements" in a non-mature manner. And also it was non-productive.

And the common sense characterization was meant to apply towards many things, not just Macs. Clearly you don't understand that.

Next time, and seriously, express your opinions in a more mature fashion. Then there can be meaningful conversations.

Finally, as you (finally!) correctly stated, I will do things my way. And I am not "allowing" others to do what works for them. And if you don't want to clean anything, fine. Be my guest.

 

[fisherking]

Remember, you are the one who started with the obsessive, paranoid, coddling statements, not me. I have never said that the tasks I follow are perfect, not have I ever said they are for everyone. But you are the one who expressed your "disagreements" in a non-mature manner. And also it was non-productive.

And the common sense characterization was meant to apply towards many things, not just Macs. Clearly you don't understand that.

Next time, and seriously, express your opinions in a more mature fashion. Then there can be meaningful conversations.

Finally, as you (finally!) correctly stated, I will do things my way. And I am not "allowing" others to do what works for them. And if you don't want to clean anything, fine. Be my guest.

there's nothing wrong with taking care of one's mac, or cleaning things out (i do a thorough removal of app files i don't keep, with find my file); i lock the dock away with a terminal script; have since 10.3.9.

we all have our ways of using our macs, and that's a good thing. so, am not arguing your right to do what you want, just not thrilled to be treated rudely. but so it goes.

 

[honestone33]

we all have our ways of using our macs, and that's a good thing. so, am not arguing your right to do what you want, just not thrilled to be treated rudely. but so it goes.

But you are the one who started being rude to me. It is you who made the obsessive, paranoid, coddling statements. And the "coddling" one was especially rude, as I easily answered that by demonstrating my ability to multi-task. (I notice you never refuted that. Maybe you can't multi-task).

So, as the old saying goes, "What goes around comes around". That is, you started with the rudeness, and I just gave it back to you, ie, you got what you deserve.

I repeat what I said above (with a couple of words added): Next time, and seriously, express your opinions in a more mature, non-rude fashion. Then there can be meaningful conversations. In fact, this could have been a useful exchange of thoughts, ideas, etc. But you are the one who chose to go about it rudely.

 

[J.Gallardo]

...in the while...

I've found an arising difference in Catalina's performance: it seems there'll be apps specially made for Catalina, which are not able to be used in Mojave. I suspect it has something to do with Catalyst.
See: Vectornator Pro . (It's free; also interesting. Perhaps Apple promotes everything that helps to push us to 64bit brave new world).

I use Onyx, Malwarebytes, etc. I wash my mac and try to keep it clean. I don't know about every mac user, but all my friends using macs come to me to ask how to mend their unattended system when something fails. I suppose they are happier not being too paranoid... but it depends of importance of job done with the machine. (Er... Am I really explaining this?). If you have critical info/production in your machine, you should tend to be more paranoid, as if you were an ambulance driver.
If one's mac use is browsing, reading Mail, and playing "solitaire"... you can stay in a more relaxed psychological state, I have to admit.

 

[Jack Neill]

how do you do this - a complete virgin install? i am running 10.14.6 and have a lot of junk files from old apps, etc. and would like to do a clean install.

Use a USB drive and create an installer. I like using Macdaddy.io's disk maker, or you can use dosdudes patcher.

 

[honestone33]

...in the while...

I've found an arising difference in Catalina's performance: it seems there'll be apps specially made for Catalina, which are not able to be used in Mojave. I suspect it has something to do with Catalyst.
See: Vectornator Pro . (It's free; also interesting. Perhaps Apple promotes everything that helps to push us to 64bit brave new world).Jessica Kwong

Interesting. I have not sen any real speed increase with my current apps (and of course each of them is compatible with Catalina). But my testing has been limited, and done on an external Samsung SSD.

Also, you "stated" Jessica Kwong. She is the Newsweek journalist who just got "released" after publishing some mis-information about Trump:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...curate-story-on-trumps-thanksgiving-day-plans

I use Onyx, Malwarebytes, etc. I wash my mac and try to keep it clean. I don't know about every mac user, but all my friends using macs come to me to ask how to mend their unattended system when something fails. I suppose they are happier not being too paranoid... but it depends of importance of job done with the machine. (Er... Am I really explaining this?). If you have critical info/production in your machine, you should tend to be more paranoid, as if you were an ambulance driver.
If one's mac use is browsing, reading Mail, and playing "solitaire"... you can stay in a more relaxed psychological state, I have to admit.

So, you "wash" your Mac. That must be a feat! What detergent do you use?

Yes, for just doing "non-intensive" activities like EMail, browsing, and playing games, maybe very little maintenance/cleanup is needed. But even using a browser can lead to issues. I guess I just continue to do such tasks (with good tools, and some self discipline) as when I was using my Macs a lot more intensely. Also, just because I do those tasks, I am not being paranoid, just being careful. The same approach can be taken with automobiles, maintaining appliances, etc. Just because one does such cleanup/maintenance tasks does not make them paranoid. I will say, though, that I tend to be somewhat "obsessive" (actually a little too strong of a characterization) when it comes to keeping things clean. And that is not just for my Macs. In fact, such cleaning of my Macs is much less a task than, say, for keeping our automobiles clean, or keeping our place clean. If folks choose instead to not clean such items much, fine, all the more power to them. But my wife and I want to keep our things clean, and as best as possible, well maintained. It is actually not that much of a chore.

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Use a USB drive and create an installer. I like using Macdaddy.io's disk maker, or you can use dosdudes patcher.

Yes, that is another approach. Of course there is then the subsequent task of migrating/copying needed files, folders, apps, settings, etc. I find it easier (and faster) to do all of that from just one device, an external (and bootable0 SSD.

 

[Jack Neill]

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Yes, that is another approach. Of course there is then the subsequent task of migrating/copying needed files, folders, apps, settings, etc. I find it easier (and faster) to do all of that from just one device, an external (and bootable0 SSD.

Yeah that's handy, I keep a install of Mojave on a SSD like that so I can apply updates and then clone it back to my MB 7,1 in a Raid 0 that can't use SU.

 

[i4k20c]

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Yes, that is another approach. Of course there is then the subsequent task of migrating/copying needed files, folders, apps, settings, etc. I find it easier (and faster) to do all of that from just one device, an external (and bootable0 SSD.

how do you do it from a bootable SSD? if you install it this way - all your documents and pictures and etc come over too without manually dragging and dropping?

 

[honestone33]

how do you do it from a bootable SSD? if you install it this way - all your documents and pictures and etc come over too without manually dragging and dropping?

The Bootable, external SSD is basically another "machine", and thus behaves like a usual Mac.

 

[i4k20c]

The Bootable, external SSD is basically another "machine", and thus behaves like a usual Mac.

i guess this is where i am still confused. Sorry for the 101 questions but i really appreciate your help.

i currently have a mid 2016 mbp 13inch with a 512gb ssd running mojave.

I assume i'd need at a min a 512gb ssd to do this right if i want to go the bootable external ssd route?

I buy the ssd and then what do i do next?

1.) How do i put the installer for catilina on the ssd?

2.) Do i clone my own ssd from the mbp onto the new ssd with the catlina installer? If so, should i use carbon copy or something else?

3.) Once i do a fresh install of catilina - how do i get my music, videos, documents, and apps back onto catilina from my ssd with the catilina installer? I assume apps i have to re-download since most of mine are not from the mac app store - but what about all the documents and pictures?

4.) I also have a few files in iphotos and movies - will those get lost? Is there a way to export it?

 

[||\||]

i guess this is where i am still confused. Sorry for the 101 questions but i really appreciate your help.

i currently have a mid 2016 mbp 13inch with a 512gb ssd running mojave.

I assume i'd need at a min a 512gb ssd to do this right if i want to go the bootable external ssd route?

I buy the ssd and then what do i do next?

1.) How do i put the installer for catilina on the ssd?

2.) Do i clone my own ssd from the mbp onto the new ssd with the catlina installer? If so, should i use carbon copy or something else?

3.) Once i do a fresh install of catilina - how do i get my music, videos, documents, and apps back onto catilina from my ssd with the catilina installer? I assume apps i have to re-download since most of mine are not from the mac app store - but what about all the documents and pictures?

4.) I also have a few files in iphotos and movies - will those get lost? Is there a way to export it?

I think you are making this more complex than it needs to be. Update the system to Catalina and then clone the system to the external SSD.

 

[i4k20c]

I think you are making this more complex than it needs to be. Update the system to Catalina and then clone the system to the external SSD.

Got it. I think this is where I was getting confused. I wasn't realizing people are updating first. I assumed I would have a fresh install of Catalina on my Mac and a cloned external HDD on Mojave and didn't know how to move over files from two different os.

But what you are saying makes sense:

Upgrade to Carolina.
Make a clone
Do a fresh install of catilina
Bring over files that I want or need from cloned ssd.