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Concerns about the 11.6 Macbook Air
- Thread starter silverfrancis
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Rubbish.
Who are you going to show me Paul friggin Thurrott or some such idiot whose job to take jabs at apple has grown proportionally to his envy and to apple's success.
Come on show me these guys, and I ll show you the countless idiocies they 've spewed out over the years, and their "predictions", and now that apple has cornered them left right and center and microsoft has put them on the wall saying what's wrong with you, we pay you such and such and you still not making a one tiny bit of impact against apple, these guys are going mad with vindictiveness. Apple has managed to surpass every manufacturer in the us if the ipad is considered a computer (which it is) and now that they have a better, more powerful ultra portable that is completely unrelated to the shrinking garbage that are netbooks, and these guys have run amok to reclassify it as a netbook, and you know why? Because they are scared ********, that as the ipad cut down aggressively on netbook sales, the new airs are going again to steal more of the pie. Come on, we weren't born yesterday... there are obvious ulterior motives here, the main one being to say, hey apple are doing what we've been doing cheaper before them, so buy our products. Well, no they aren't they are doing what they were doing before you with the ibook and the powerbook 12", and their products are descendants of this line, not the line of asus ee pc of netbooks where you stuck bottom of the barrel stuff shrunk the whole thing to almost unusable and sold it.
If they think that we that sort of garbage "journalism" they are going to help their bosses sell more they are again misguided. It didn't help them with the ipod, nor the iphone, nor the ipad, and it's not going to help them with the new airs. They better start developping some really good products if they want to sell, than taking cheap moronic jibes at apple. That's why 6 months later they don't yet have a decent alternative to the ipad, neither in price, nor on performance....
Who are you going to show me? The guys that touted the vapourware courier? The guys that promoted the kin phones that sold 459 pieces and where doa? The guys that thought the big ipod touch would flop miserably?
I mentioned to you a series of arguments, and a respected non apple source who edits an established magazine for laptops, as well as other companies such toshiba (that I've looked at, because I can't be bother to check the others out) that classify their own 11.6 machines as ultra portables, and you are telling me I can show you... shhhhhsssh...
Like I said call it Betty, call it Al, call it what you wish, but don't try to impose counter to all logic and historical accuracy and counter to how the product is actually categorized that particular way you want to call the new airs.
I am sorry but the first line on wikipedia reads:
Later in the text a typical size of 7" is described for a netbook computer.
Also the word netbook originally came from the fact that these computers are in fact incapable of doing anything else than surfing the web because they are so low on specs.
I don't see how the 11" MacBook Air fits into those categories. Yes it is small (11" is still a lot larger than 7" though), yes it is lightweight, it is not inexpensive, it is not low on specs, it is not able to do nothing but surfing the web.
I'm sorry but a netbook is something different and a small but fully capable laptop is called ultraportable not netbook.
Apple has not entered the netbook market and never will. For that they would have to release a laptop with a smaller screen than an iPad, an ARM or equivalent CPU, and with iOS on it. Also the price would have to be around 499$, not starting at 1000$
I think you are the person here needing justification for anything. For not buying it. So you are 'downgrading' it to a netbook which you don't need.
Later in the text a typical size of 7" is described for a netbook computer.
Also the word netbook originally came from the fact that these computers are in fact incapable of doing anything else than surfing the web because they are so low on specs.
I don't see how the 11" MacBook Air fits into those categories. Yes it is small (11" is still a lot larger than 7" though), yes it is lightweight, it is not inexpensive, it is not low on specs, it is not able to do nothing but surfing the web.
I'm sorry but a netbook is something different and a small but fully capable laptop is called ultraportable not netbook.
Apple has not entered the netbook market and never will. For that they would have to release a laptop with a smaller screen than an iPad, an ARM or equivalent CPU, and with iOS on it. Also the price would have to be around 499$, not starting at 1000$
I think you are the person here needing justification for anything. For not buying it. So you are 'downgrading' it to a netbook which you don't need.
Good post buddy, but you just can't convince some here, they have apparently become attached to an idea that bears little resemblance to reality or logic, and they don't move...
...and that's one thing, but to try to convince the rest on it, and have such conviction on it...
...and that's one thing, but to try to convince the rest on it, and have such conviction on it...
Reading comprehension not your strong suit eh?
I bought one. And a really big iPod Touch/iPad as well.
Its a netbook. A high-end netbook to be sure, but a netbook nonetheless. Enjoy it for what it is.
Wow, some of you guys are so mean. Why do you deem it necessary to stomp all over people who just bought the 11" Air? A computer is what people make it out to be, not what negative forum members want to label it so lay off. 
If the owner doesn't see it as a Netbook then it's not, simple as that. When people try to annoy new buyers of Macs I see it as jealousy.
If the owner doesn't see it as a Netbook then it's not, simple as that. When people try to annoy new buyers of Macs I see it as jealousy.
Wow, some of you guys are so mean. Why do you deem it necessary to stomp all over people who just bought the 11" Air? A computer is what people make it out to be, not what negative forum members want to label it so lay off.
I agree.
Are we still having this netbook debate?
It's just an argument of definitions. If you define a netbook as being a "crappy computer" then the MacBook Air isn't one. If you define a netbook as being "a smaller screen", then it is. If you define a netbook as being a chicken sandwich, then it's not.
Why do people care so much if it is, or isn't a netbook.
It's just an argument of definitions. If you define a netbook as being a "crappy computer" then the MacBook Air isn't one. If you define a netbook as being "a smaller screen", then it is. If you define a netbook as being a chicken sandwich, then it's not.
Why do people care so much if it is, or isn't a netbook.
Me too. When I get a new MacBook, if someone sees it and says "nice netbook" I'll smile and say "thanks!"
If netbooks had never existed then people would never be calling the 11" MBA a netbook. Instead they would have labeled it what we used to label such a laptop before netbooks were created, and that is an ultra-portable.
We are so conditioned to seeing an 11.6" laptop and screaming "netbook!" For some reason this really wasn't the case with Windows machines of the same size that had C2D's but now that Apple has joined that size category people are screaming "netbook" again.
Bottom line, it isn't a netbook. Like I've already said in previous post nothing rocking a C2D is a netbook. That is a fact. So if people want to keep referring to it as Apple's netbook, so be it, but they're wrong.
We are so conditioned to seeing an 11.6" laptop and screaming "netbook!" For some reason this really wasn't the case with Windows machines of the same size that had C2D's but now that Apple has joined that size category people are screaming "netbook" again.
Bottom line, it isn't a netbook. Like I've already said in previous post nothing rocking a C2D is a netbook. That is a fact. So if people want to keep referring to it as Apple's netbook, so be it, but they're wrong.
No way is it a netbook. It's an ultra-portable, there is a difference whether people choose to believe it or not.
I had a Sony TZ a few years ago via work, it cost a fortune, and it could do everything a full sized lappy could do. To the untrained eye from a distance it could easily be mistaken for a Samsung netbook or equivalent, yet the experience of using one was a million miles better. In no way can anything with an Atom, dual core or not, replicate the functionality of a full sized laptop/desktop. In contrast, although I'm yet to see or use the 11" MBA, I've little doubt judging by the specs it is firmly in the small laptop ie ulta-portable category.
I don't really understand the vitriol surrounding this issue. I'm not even an Apple fanboy, merely a fan of small, relatively powerful computers.
I had a Sony TZ a few years ago via work, it cost a fortune, and it could do everything a full sized lappy could do. To the untrained eye from a distance it could easily be mistaken for a Samsung netbook or equivalent, yet the experience of using one was a million miles better. In no way can anything with an Atom, dual core or not, replicate the functionality of a full sized laptop/desktop. In contrast, although I'm yet to see or use the 11" MBA, I've little doubt judging by the specs it is firmly in the small laptop ie ulta-portable category.
I don't really understand the vitriol surrounding this issue. I'm not even an Apple fanboy, merely a fan of small, relatively powerful computers.
Well after owning a Dell Mini 9, a netbook, I can say without reservation the MBA 11" is no netbook. And yes I even Hackintoshed it, ran Ubuntu on it and Windows 7. The self-demo I did in the Apple Store today convinced me that I'll have one in the next month or so, and the MBP won't be seeing much action.
The issue here is whether the term "netbook" is used in a somewhat pejorative sense, as it often is, fits the new 11 inch MBA. When Steve Jobs expressed his dislike for netbooks, it was clear that he meant the term as it is generally defined. See Google's definition of "netbook." Note that the consensus of those definitions is that a netbook has at most a 9 or 10 inch screen and less computing power than a conventional computer. In stark contrast, the new 11 inch MBA contains the same CPU, GPU, and standard keyboard that Apple uses in its 13 inch MBP. That's why to me at least and probably Steve Jobs, too, the 11 inch MBA is not a "netbook" in the conventionally negative sense of the word.
Those who insist on calling the 11 inch MBA a "netbook" are tacitly conceding that they are using the word in a newly broadened sense. Suits me.
Those who insist on calling the 11 inch MBA a "netbook" are tacitly conceding that they are using the word in a newly broadened sense. Suits me.
"Pejorative." I learned a new word today!
Me too, but I'm from Germany. What's your excuse?
Wrong, but thanks for playing.
Lenovo Ideapad U110 Netbook w/C2D
http://www.cheapstingybargains.com/167358/lenovo-ideapad-u110-111-intel-core-2-duo-netbook/
Alienware M11x Netbook w/C2D
http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/02/01/the-alienware-m11x-netbook-gets-priced-dated-and-detailed/
There are many, many others sporting C2D's and even a few out there with i-series CPU's already. These are netbooks. Modernized past the Atom-era netbooks, but still netbooks.
If you want to argue that the just-released MBA's are NOT equivalent to circa-2008 state-of-the-art netbooks, have at it. But by today's modern standards, Apple just re-introduced the netbook concept all over again.
The proof you so desperately are trying to avoid doesn't exist. My conjecture is that if the MBA's are as popular as they appear to be, within a few months you'll see several "MBA-killers" re-appear from all the major players. Metal-alloyed 'premium' netbooks that attempt to capitalize on what Apple just did: eliminate the "cheap and crappy" part of netbook computing.
Let's drop the netbook terminology. These laptops are not Atom chipsets and they are not the netbooks Jobs referred to in the iPad keynote (ie: poor construction, single core Atoms). These atoms also use older generation IO chipsets that the C2Ds do not (relatively). Apple is also trying to stay faithful to the full laptop experience as much as possible (ie: keyboard/trackpad size), although the un-backlit keyboard is kind of lame..
C2Ds are not the newest generation of processors, but they're also better on power and don't need 2x graphics chipsets to be powerful (Intel+nVidia like on the 15/17 MBPs). I don't think the switching mechanism has been worked out by Apple quite that well, and I prefer the C2D/nVidia combo better because it's unambiguous operation. It's fine for a 11/13 thin macbook anyway.
And @ReallyBigFeet, I'm not sure what you're arguing and why you're arguing it.. don't have better things to do? Also:
No reference to the word netbook in the Amazon product description for the Lenovo: http://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-IdeaPad-59-014847-Processor-Premium/dp/B001CC238C
... and the article you linked about the M11x, CrunchGear specifically says: "the company calls it a netbook, but it’s packing a Core 2 Duo"
This debate is inane. The only context you have is Jobs' specific reference to the netbook category in the iPad keynote. The Macbook Airs do not fit that reference and that category he was referring to. They are not netbooks. I don't know what other context is relevant here, and it seems like you're just inventing things to have a debate.
C2Ds are not the newest generation of processors, but they're also better on power and don't need 2x graphics chipsets to be powerful (Intel+nVidia like on the 15/17 MBPs). I don't think the switching mechanism has been worked out by Apple quite that well, and I prefer the C2D/nVidia combo better because it's unambiguous operation. It's fine for a 11/13 thin macbook anyway.
And @ReallyBigFeet, I'm not sure what you're arguing and why you're arguing it.. don't have better things to do? Also:
No reference to the word netbook in the Amazon product description for the Lenovo: http://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-IdeaPad-59-014847-Processor-Premium/dp/B001CC238C
... and the article you linked about the M11x, CrunchGear specifically says: "the company calls it a netbook, but it’s packing a Core 2 Duo"
This debate is inane. The only context you have is Jobs' specific reference to the netbook category in the iPad keynote. The Macbook Airs do not fit that reference and that category he was referring to. They are not netbooks. I don't know what other context is relevant here, and it seems like you're just inventing things to have a debate.
I fully agree. And I like the way you phrase the things you say
"Pejorative." I learned a new word today!
Now cut that out!Me too, but I'm from Germany. What's your excuse?
More seriously, I fear that the use of the word "netbook to describe the 11 inch MBA is an ill-concealed cheap shot at those who have bought the 11 inch MBA. A cynic might call that the politics of envy.
Well gee, I could sort of say the same thing about the entire post you just made, dontcha think?
If my use of the term "Netbook" bothers you so much, just insert "Shiny Apple Product" in its place. Its not that hard if you just sorta squint a little.
Enjoy your Netbook! I know I will be once the thing arrives on Wednesday! I plan on giving my Dell Mini the "Office Space" trashing it so well deserves. I hate that stupid thing and am quite happy to replace it with my Netb...uhhh....Shiny Apple Product.
What's amazing to me is the people who work in the tech journalism world that are saying "well, this is Apple's netbook". Um, no it's not. What netbooks have a C2D processor? What netbook is constructed with such fine hardware as the MBA? It just boggles my mind how wrong some of the people who work in tech journalistic arena can be.
I think anyone who spends a little time with the 11" MBA will come to the conclusion that it isn't a netbook. Not even close (aside from the fact that it has a 11.6" screen like some netbooks).
I agree this is not a netbook at all after using the 11.6 and then looking at my Dell mini I can see the difference. Also this is much faster than a netbook is and it has stayed very cool even when I watch youtube on here plus having other apps and extra windows opened. When I did that with the Dell it would heat up very fast and then slow down that it made it impossible to use. I am very happy with the 11.6 so far.