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Without being an engineer of the caliber of Apple or other tech guys it's hard to say how much of the vision drove the design, or the other way around. It's possible you could scale the thermal core concept to a larger, dual-CPU configuration, or it might be that the design only works at certain sizes and two CPUs would simply be too much heat—although I wouldn’t say that the old Mac Pros were necessarily the best example, since the heatsinks on the Z840s at work are minuscule in comparison, purely from a size standpoint.

Yeah that is true, Apple has done weird things in the past like that. Idk, I still think the nMP might have been a little to cramped to stick in another processor. It would have been awesome and the CPU prices would be lower if I just stick in 2 quads to get 8 cores total, but alas it didn't happen.

Maybe the Haswell/Broadwell machines will have dual sockets again.
 
My best guess is the thermal envelope of the machine. The metal loaf heatsinks of the Nehalem/Westmere Mac Pros are almost the same size as the new Mac Pro entirely.

FWIW, I think the nMP is an amazing machine. In most cases its faster them my 4,1->5,1 Mac Pro for what I do in a lot smaller format. While I do sometimes miss the upgradability of the older machines its hard to beat the power to size ratio of the nMP.

I'm more interested in the dollar to performance ratio. To me, a smaller, slower computer isn't worth spending another $3000+. But, hey, to each their own. Enjoy your small mac. ;)
 
I'm more interested in the dollar to performance ratio. To me, a smaller, slower computer isn't worth spending another $3000+. But, hey, to each their own. Enjoy your small mac. ;)

Well considering that the 4,1 was $2500 back in 2009 for the quad core variant, had a spinning drive and less RAM then the current quad core entry model, I'd say things have progressed decently well.

Plus, I bought this machine as the replacement to my 15" Retina that kept failing on me. Apple agreed to take the machine back for store credit. I was only $100 short from getting a refurbed Quad nMP. ;)
 
It's just a mean joke.

Sadly, it appears there won't be another Dual Socket Mac.

The engineers to make it happen were all needed to design the perfect Facebook button.

dont forget ethnic emojis. ive been waiting for those since Macs went color with the II in 1987.

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Well considering that the 4,1 was $2500 back in 2009 for the quad core variant, had a spinning drive and less RAM then the current quad core entry model, I'd say things have progressed decently well.

Plus, I bought this machine as the replacement to my 15" Retina that kept failing on me. Apple agreed to take the machine back for store credit. I was only $100 short from getting a refurbed Quad nMP. ;)

difference being your 2009 quad core can be upgraded to make up for a lot of that... raided SSDs, faster CPUs, better video cards. good luck doing that in 2020 when the nMP is looking long in the tooth. its basically an overgrown mac mini
 
dont forget ethnic emojis. ive been waiting for those since Macs went color with the II in 1987

Every bit as important as the innovative Imacs
imac_gallery_04.jpg
announced in 2001.

;)
 
Sorry, I suspect you're being sarcastic, but I'm being genuine in my question. Could they not have built a box with two processor sockets supporting up to 24 cores? Meaning if they stuck with a construction more like the classic mac pro?

Because it's a lot more expensive, takes a lot more room and may reduce performance for some processing. Performance on one processor is more predictable and better suited to stuff that is done on the desktop.
 
Because it's a lot more expensive, takes a lot more room and may reduce performance for some processing. Performance on one processor is more predictable and better suited to stuff that is done on the desktop.

adding a second processor has absolutely zero effect to its ability to execute single-core tasks. The only manner in which it would affect it is the fact a dual-cpu system, in order to be priced competitively, would be forced to use lower clock rate CPUs in the base configurations, which would lead to the point you are making. there might be some small deviation in performance, but not to the extent that it would make a noticable difference. a 3.5 dual-cpu hex core xeon will run a single-core app at the same speed as a single-cpu 3.5 hex core xeon.
 
Sorry, I suspect you're being sarcastic, but I'm being genuine in my question. Could they not have built a box with two processor sockets supporting up to 24 cores? Meaning if they stuck with a construction more like the classic mac pro?

I wasn't being sarcastic. One of the best reasons to get a dual socket late Intel system is that the PCIe lanes and the memory controller are on the processor chip itself.

Two processors can support twice as many DIMM slots (24) and PCIe 3.0 lanes (80). Since a number of PCIe lanes are used for system IO, this means that a dual has more than twice the number of available lanes.

At the high end, single socket systems are crippled compared to dual socket systems. If Apple only wants to play in the "low end workstation" space, the MP6,1 is a decent system (except for only 4 DIMM sockets, when 8 to 12 is more common).

Also note that the other vendors have switched to Haswell-EP CPUs (E5-x6xx v3), and support up to 18 cores per socket - 36 cores for a dual socket. Apple is still using previous generation v2 CPUs and is stuck at 12 per socket.

Yes, a twin socket machine would have a different design - but it wouldn't have to be "traditional", Apple could have fun.

Look at the Dell Precision line (http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/precision-desktops?~ck=anav) or HP Z-series (http://www8.hp.com/us/en/campaigns/workstations/z230.html) to see what other companies are doing to have a family of systems at several price/size/performance points.

Apple would not have to kill the MP6,1 in order to bring out a machine with competitive performance at the high end.


Because it's a lot more expensive, takes a lot more room ...

Wow, a much more powerful system is more expensive and takes up more room? Who would have guessed....

To repeat, Apple would not have to kill the MP6,1 in order to bring out a machine with competitive performance at the high end.


Performance on one processor is more predictable and better suited to stuff that is done on the desktop.

...and performance with a single core is even more predictable. Do you want performance or predictability? Are you more interested in the mean or the standard deviation?


adding a second processor has absolutely zero effect to its ability to execute single-core tasks. The only manner in which it would affect it is the fact a dual-cpu system, in order to be priced competitively, would be forced to use lower clock rate CPUs in the base configurations, which would lead to the point you are making. there might be some small deviation in performance, but not to the extent that it would make a noticable difference. a 3.5 dual-cpu hex core xeon will run a single-core app at the same speed as a single-cpu 3.5 hex core xeon.

Agree, but I'd say "almost zero" instead of "absolutely zero". There are some bizarre cases where there is a minor effect.
 
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I wonder if they would release a taller dual processor mac pro.

Also with using a 26xx series CPU have you tried the LRDIMM support? You can now get 64GB modules which means you could in theory run the mac pro with 256gb of RAM
 
I wonder if they would release a taller dual processor mac pro.

Also with using a 26xx series CPU have you tried the LRDIMM support? You can now get 64GB modules which means you could in theory run the mac pro with 256gb of RAM
LR-DIMMs are not supported by 2687W v2, they are only supported by 26XX v2 server-class processors (without W).

That said, I tried a 32GB LR-DIMM with a 2697 v2, and the system did not boot. Therefore I assume that LR-DIMMs are not supported by Mac Pro's EFI.
 
If I run a GPU stress test on both GPUs while running Prime95, then I do see throttling fairly quickly. I don't know if a regular 130W TDP would also throttle in this use case, but I suspect that it would.

I'm curious, how do you detect CPU throttling in OS X?
 
I wasn't being sarcastic. One of the best reasons to get a dual socket late Intel system is that the PCIe lanes and the memory controller are on the processor chip itself.

Two processors can support twice as many DIMM slots (24) and PCIe 3.0 lanes (80). Since a number of PCIe lanes are used for system IO, this means that a dual has more than twice the number of available lanes.

At the high end, single socket systems are crippled compared to dual socket systems. If Apple only wants to play in the "low end workstation" space, the MP6,1 is a decent system (except for only 4 DIMM sockets, when 8 to 12 is more common).

Also note that the other vendors have switched to Haswell-EP CPUs (E5-x6xx v3), and support up to 18 cores per socket - 36 cores for a dual socket. Apple is still using previous generation v2 CPUs and is stuck at 12 per socket.

Yes, a twin socket machine would have a different design - but it wouldn't have to be "traditional", Apple could have fun.

Apple would not have to kill the MP6,1 in order to bring out a machine with competitive performance at the high end.

Very good points. I would love to see something like this.
 
I'm curious, how do you detect CPU throttling in OS X?
I used Intel Power Gadget. It shows average CPU frequency across all cores, power draw and temperature.

It works in Mavericks, but it is not supported in Yosemite yet.

EDIT: Reinstalling Intel Power Gadget in Yosemite fixed the issue and it works for me now.
 
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I swapped a 2687W v2 CPU into my nMP and it boots just fine.

This is an 8-core CPU with 3.4GHz base clock, with up to 4.0GHz turbo on a single core and 3.6GHz turbo on all cores. 150W TDP.

1680 v2, the 8-core CPU Apple sells with the 2013 Mac Pro is only 3.0GHz base clock, with 3.9GHz turbo on a single core and 3.4GHz turbo on all cores. 130W TDP.

Any suggestions for how to best stress-test my Mac Pro to ensure that a 150W TDP CPU can be used 24/7, even with GPUs stressed to the max?


Is the 2687w v2 working great? Do you find significant performance advantage with this CPU. Do you recommend this CPU. Thanks!!!
 
Is the 2687w v2 working great? Do you find significant performance advantage with this CPU. Do you recommend this CPU. Thanks!!!

I didn't own the nMP, but one main parameter is missing in your question. What is your current CPU? If it's 1680 V2.

According to the info / spec, and by considering the nMP's CPU cooling is OK (turbo boost always available). Then single core performance is just 2.5% faster. Multi core performance improvement is <6%. Hard to imagine that's a significant improvement.

But if you are running the 4 cores Xeon, then yes. it is a very significant improvement on multi thread performance.
 
I didn't own the nMP, but one main parameter is missing in your question. What is your current CPU? If it's 1680 V2.

According to the info / spec, and by considering the nMP's CPU cooling is OK (turbo boost always available). Then single core performance is just 2.5% faster. Multi core performance improvement is <6%. Hard to imagine that's a significant improvement.

But if you are running the 4 cores Xeon, then yes. it is a very significant improvement on multi thread performance.
Current cpu is the 12 core 2595 v2 but it is probably slower than the quad core that it came with. Also my mac pro fan runs continuously after the CPU upgrade. Do you have any suggestion on whether something i can do to fix it. I reset pram but that didn't seem to have worked. Thanks!!!
 
Current cpu is the 12 core 2595 v2 but it is probably slower than the quad core that it came with. Also my mac pro fan runs continuously after the CPU upgrade. Do you have any suggestion on whether something i can do to fix it. I reset pram but that didn't seem to have worked. Thanks!!!

If in term of "speed" (single thread) 2687w v2 is 25% faster in your case (the difference after turbo boost).

Did you check the CPU temperature? If that fan is keep running at high speed right after CPU swap. There is a very high chance that you didn't apply the thermal paste correctly. In this case, the real solution is re-install the CPU properly again, but not using any software method to "fix" it.
 
If in term of "speed" (single thread) 2687w v2 is 25% faster in your case (the difference after turbo boost).

Did you check the CPU temperature? If that fan is keep running at high speed right after CPU swap. There is a very high chance that you didn't apply the thermal paste correctly. In this case, the real solution is re-install the CPU properly again, but not using any software method to "fix" it.
I think I may have to reinstall the CPU.

Can you please confirm that the 2687w v2 works with Mac Pro 2013. It is not in the compatible list so I am not sure if it works.
Thanks a lot!!!
[doublepost=1504516892][/doublepost]
I think I may have to reinstall the CPU.

Can you please confirm that the 2687w v2 works with Mac Pro 2013. It is not in the compatible list so I am not sure if it works.
Thanks a lot!!!
Also, how can I check CPU temperatures.
 
I swapped a 2687W v2 CPU into my nMP and it boots just fine.

This is an 8-core CPU with 3.4GHz base clock, with up to 4.0GHz turbo on a single core and 3.6GHz turbo on all cores. 150W TDP.

1680 v2, the 8-core CPU Apple sells with the 2013 Mac Pro is only 3.0GHz base clock, with 3.9GHz turbo on a single core and 3.4GHz turbo on all cores. 130W TDP.

Any suggestions for how to best stress-test my Mac Pro to ensure that a 150W TDP CPU can be used 24/7, even with GPUs stressed to the max?

I wanted to PM you to find what your long term review of 2687w V2 chip is.

Thanks!
 
Curious why people would seek out the 2687W instead of a 2667 when the latter sacrifices only .1 MHz and turbos the same and also has the same TDP as all other supported CPUs. Price?
 
I swapped a 2687W v2 CPU into my nMP and it boots just fine.

This is an 8-core CPU with 3.4GHz base clock, with up to 4.0GHz turbo on a single core and 3.6GHz turbo on all cores. 150W TDP.

1680 v2, the 8-core CPU Apple sells with the 2013 Mac Pro is only 3.0GHz base clock, with 3.9GHz turbo on a single core and 3.4GHz turbo on all cores. 130W TDP.

Any suggestions for how to best stress-test my Mac Pro to ensure that a 150W TDP CPU can be used 24/7, even with GPUs stressed to the max?
[doublepost=1506515366][/doublepost]I believe that turbo speed is not applicable for all cores. And for 2887 it maintains significantly higher clock speed for more cores than 2667. And my first hand experience with software development tasks on Mac Pro 2013 is that 4 fast cores performs almost same as 12 slow cores.

So I think the 2887 may be best CPU for Mac Pro 2013
 
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