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Cool animated stuff you can do without Flash: let's collect it!

BOSS10L said:
Actually, I liken it more to "Quick, let me justify to myself the gobs of money I'm going to throw at Apple for an inferior product."
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Inferior to what? What tablet has 150.000 touch-friendly+multitouch+accelerometer_enabled applications? And 28.000 developers ready to roll out more iPad-specific applications?

Looking forward to "the other" tablets....the ones that have been FAILING for the last 10 years.....the same ones that used to start at 1000$+.....

It may not have Flash but it's by no means an "inferior" product...
 
It's inferior in two ways:

It runs a mobile phone OS. You can do a lot more on a PC OS, and there are far more programs available for Windows/OSX/Linux/etc than the measly 150,000 apps on the iphone os, most of which aren't any good.

It's also inferior to the iphone/ipod touch, because it's too big to be carried around in your pocket everywhere you go.
 
niceified said:
It's inferior in two ways:

It runs a mobile phone OS. You can do a lot more on a PC OS, and there are far more programs available for Windows/OSX/Linux/etc than the measly 150,000 apps on the iphone os, most of which aren't any good.
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You could use a PC OS 10 years ago on a tablet, still they never took off.

A PC OS (let's say "desktop OS") is CRAP if used on a tablet. And dekstop programs are CRAP if used on a tablet. A tablet DEMAND for finger friendly OS and applications. That's why people saying "it's inferior" and "it should have used a DESKTOP OS" simply don't understand what the heck are we talking about and why Windows tablets have been FAILING for the last 10 years.

It's also inferior to the iphone/ipod touch, because it's too big to be carried around in your pocket everywhere you go.
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Have you noticed the 9,6" IPS display? Of course it's bigger, but it's like carrying a book....not pocket sized, not for everybody but definetely carry-able...
 
gianly1985 said:
Inferior to what? What tablet has 150.000 touch-friendly+multitouch+accelerometer_enabled applications? And 28.000 developers ready to roll out more iPad-specific applications?

Looking forward to "the other" tablets....the ones that have been FAILING for the last 10 years.....the same ones that used to start at 1000$+.....

It may not have Flash but it's by no means an "inferior" product...
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Inferior as to what it could have been. My blog post from a while back:

So, Steve Jobs held another one of his "look at us, we're so special" press conferences (that's another rant for another post) to introduce the world to the iPad. I've been waiting for this announcement for some time as an Apple fan and someone who's been in the netbook market for a while. Aside from having THE WORST product name ever (save for the Nintendo Wii), I see the iPad as one big bag of hurt for consumers. While not entirely exhaustive, here are my gripes below:

No flash. While some don't see this as a big deal, flash is what runs most of the web. Apple simply doesn't want people going to free sites and playing flash games or television on HULU that they would be forced to buy through the App Store and iTunes, respectively.

No multitasking. This is a straight-up no-brainer, WTF were they thinking in Cupertino. Yeah, because nobody EVER wants to open a PDF of the latest quarterly earnings as they're reading an email from the sales department. Or no student would ever want to listen to Pandora/Last FM/etc as they type a term paper. This oversight falls into a category I like to call a 'special kind of stupid.' Jobs touted the iPad as something that caters to both the business realm as well as education, yet the product can't do something that some watches are currently capable of. To Apple's *potential* credit, there is an SDK (Software Development Kit) out right now, so multitasking may be on the horizon soon, but to not have that showing at the debut is just criminal.

It's no e-reader. Jobs fancies the iPad the 'Kindle killer.' How so? They're two completely different animals. The Kindle is a specific purpose-built device, whereas the iPad seems to be a jack of all trades, master of none. I have excellent eyesight, but even after staring at a backlit computer screen for a bit typing a paper, my eyes burn. Not so with my Kindle 2. The e-ink display is perfect for reading, I've read entire novels in one sitting with nary a problem. And don't get me started on iBooks' pricing structure. $14.99 for popular titles? I can get them for $9.99 on my Kindle. For the average Joe who may read one book a year that is no big deal, but for people who read a lot, that's big. Not to mention the proprietary DRM (Digital Rights Management) that Apple will be using, there is no telling if people will be able to upload their own books/content to the iPad.

No user replaceable battery. They tout 10-hours of video-watching capability with the battery, but I'd like to see some real-world testing done. I know for a fact that my iPhone 3G's battery doesn't last nearly as long as it should.

This thing sucks for students. I was totally pumped to find out what they were going to unveil; I've been considering a netbook for some time now that I can take to class, but a tablet that I could take notes on, read e-textbooks, highlight and make annotations was just going to be killer. Then they had to go and ruin the party. The case for the iPad is rounded like it's an *ahem* oversized iPod Touch, which means it won't sit flat on a desk or table, thus negating its use as a note-taking screen. Yes, I know there were docks shown that will connect to it, but I wouldn't trust the thing sitting on the small 20"w X 20"l desktops we have on campus. I can just see some kid come walking in, still hung over, bumping my desk, knocking the iPad to the floor and shattering its screen. No thanks.

Still tied to AT&T. I'm an AT&T customer who is happy with my service here in podunk Rochester. The reception is pretty good, but let me tell you, it was very hit-and-miss down in Orlando last October when we went to Disney. I can only imagine how crappy things might get when you add another few hundred thousand (or few million) iPad users taking up bandwidth, unless AT&T is planning on using some of that subscription fee money to upgrade their network. You'll have to pardon me if I don't hold my breath on that one.

No camera. Again, this is another no-brainer. Jeez-a-whiz, you can get $30 pay-as-you go phones that come with a built in camera that can do pictures and video, why in the hell can't this 'magical' device have the same? Utter crap.

No HDMI out. Because, you know, you'd never want to hook up the iPad to your LCD/Plasma/whatever to watch the movie you just bought or spent money renting from the iTunes store.

3:4 screen aspect ratio. What is it, 1992? 16:9 or go home. Even 16:10 would have been an improvement. (for those who don't know; 3:4 ratio is the old 'square TV' ratio, 16:9 is regular widescreen, and the 16:10 is what a good portion of LCD computer monitors use)

Apple's application acceptance/denial process and DRM through iBooks/iTunes/app store. Don't you tell me what I can and can't put on my $500 (at the cheapest price point) iPad after I've purchased those things legally. I can see Apple banning the Kindle/B&N e-reader/Stanza e-reader apps from the iPad because they are in direct competition with the iBooks store.

I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting, but that's all I'm going to type for now.

I've not given up completely on Apple or the iPad, but color me jaded and I'll definitely be sitting back and seeing what happens here. Maybe in its second or third iteration the iPad may be worth considering.
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BOSS10L said:
Inferior as to what it could have been. My blog post from a while back:
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This is not the right thread, but most of what you wrote is crap. (aspect ratio, battery, HDMI out to use it like a ZuneHD-movie-HTPC which clearly is a stupid use for a mobile device, the pdf+Mail part which clearly shows you never used an iphone, AT&T which is not a worldwide feature and the device is UNLOCKED anyway, AppStore approval system which proved to be a successful model, LCD which is not that bad for reading as billions of people read from LCDs every day for hours, etc.).
 
gianly1985 said:
This is not the right thread, but most of what you wrote is crap. (aspect ratio, battery, HDMI out to use it like a ZuneHD-movie-HTPC which clearly is a stupid use for a mobile device, the pdf+Mail part which clearly shows you never used an iphone, AT&T which is not a worldwide feature and the device is UNLOCKED anyway, AppStore approval system which proved to be a successful model, LCD which is not that bad for reading as billions of people read from LCDs every day for hours, etc.).
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Keep telling yourself whatever you need to.
 
Agreed - lets not take the thread off topic.

I'll add some exmaples in a bit - It might be worth people adding pictures to better illustrate things also :)
 
niceified said:
It's inferior in two ways:

It runs a mobile phone OS. You can do a lot more on a PC OS, and there are far more programs available for Windows/OSX/Linux/etc than the measly 150,000 apps on the iphone os, most of which aren't any good.

It's also inferior to the iphone/ipod touch, because it's too big to be carried around in your pocket everywhere you go.
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Mobile OS, with a kernal that's used in the Desktop Area. And when you say Desktop OS, that's exactly why the Tablet Program failed in our school a few years ago when we had a trial, and 3 years ago - when we wanted to give it another go - it failed too. The reason wasn't that Tablet Technology wasn't good enough, but that we really couldn't use a Desktop OS that wasn't designed for Touch - it just... Didn't work. We even tried Linux, but that too didn't have the support and programs we required.

It's not all about not having a Desktop OS that is designed for Touch, but also about not having enough Programs that are designed for Touch. Although the PC has Billions of software, unfortunately, nearly all of them aren't designed for touch, and that was a big issue for us. As a school, we tried to contract someone to create us a onscreen keyboard that was well... Usable - it didn't work.

In respond to the multi-task issue, we are actually quite happy (and so are the students we interviewed) and using only one application at a time. The students understand that this device will mainly be for studies, whilst their own iPhone, iPod, MP3 or what have you are their personal media device.

They were happy about running one application at a time (though I do agree about your issue regarding copying between PDF, Email and Word Processor - I'll addres this later) because it would help their own workflow, and I quote 'It's not a bad thing, not really. I mean, if we were allowed to multi-task, I'm sure we'd continue doing what we do now... Which is basically using our desktop to game. When the teacher comes, just flash the screen away, and back when they leave... I personally think being only able to run one thing at a time would help myself work better and more efficiently'. That's a plus for the students, and the teachers.

About the Word Processor issues, we are trying to see if we can find anyone to develop a word processor that is has PDF reading support, email support and even allow storage on the device and wireless sync to their computers / printer servers.

Now, to some legitimate issues. Textbook, we're not sure what's going to be there, what's not - that's an issue for us.

The Video Out is not very high quality, which isn't very good for those of us who would store videos and show the class, and well - Presentations too. However, our interactive whiteboard is around the iPad Resolution, so it is fine - but that isn't future proof enough for us.

The keyboard price is high - and we're not sure how many we need, as some are more Pro-Touch Screen and some are Pro-Hardware Keyboard (though most are saying they're prefer the Touch keyboard) - so that is also an issue.

Without trying to derail the thread, I personally think the lack of Flash is an issue - just because many education 'games' and 'information' uses Flash, but we believe that these will be covered in E-Books which are hopefully interactive. We too wish that Flash would 'disappear' as our students themselves agree that it's a major hog.

One online non-flash software our Art Department uses is MugTug's Sketchpad which you can find at http://mugtug.com/sketchpad/. It's a very good site and software, and it's free! Try it!
 
I think this sort of collection is a great idea; efforts like CSS Zen Garden really helped convince others that CSS was a powerful technology (and thus displace table-based layouts). Many people are ostensive learners, and need concrete examples to understand potential. If we, or someone else, could start such a project it would be great.

On to my contribution to this collection, firstly the stuff available today:

Raphaël (a generic and fast vector drawing library that abstracts over IE and SVG-supporting browsers): http://raphaeljs.com/

TransM (image transitions implemented in Javascript): http://www.netzgesta.de/transm/

PrototypeJS (a port of the famous Prototype system to Javascript): http://www.prototypejs.org/

Flapjax (a library for data-flow/FRP patterns in Javascript, useful as an abstraction for animations which is better in many situations IMO than timelines): http://www.flapjax-lang.org/

Freeciv.net (a FreeCiv client using Canvas to run in the browser): http://code.google.com/p/freeciv-forever/

On the horizon, but approaching surprisingly rapidly, is WebGL for 3D graphics. It is approaching rapidly enough that there are already a couple of engines that wrap up the low-level WebGL into a higher-level API:

Copperlicht (which has a Quake 3 level running on Chrome at 110fps in one of their demos): http://www.ambiera.com/copperlicht/index.html

GLGE: http://www.glge.org/

Also approaching, although I think less rapidly, is full support for SVG filters in the browsers (including binding them to parts of HTML documents), XBL2 (which will better allow the construction of visual abstraction libraries) and MathML (useful for the education community who currently rely on Flash).

My company is also currently seriously considering porting a large visualisation system to a pure Javascript implementation to allow our customers more flexibility with their reporting.

Hope these are of help.
 
It's amazing that the HTML5/Flash-less internet can be organized into a single Macrumors thread.

...still on page 1.
 
FrankieTDouglas said:
It's amazing that the HTML5/Flash-less internet can be organized into a single Macrumors thread.

...still on page 1.
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It can't. To 'organise' the full range of visual trickery possible with the browser rendering stack of HTML, CSS, Javascript, SVG, XBL, MathML, Canvas 2D, Canvas 3D/WebGL, etc. would take a large directory. However, what can be done is to give pithy examples, like CSS Zen Garden did, to show others a snippet of what is possible by leveraging these multiple technologies in different ways. That is, I think, what makes this combination so powerful; you're not using a single piece of technology but can leverage multiple technologies to accomplish even more. You can separate out a lot of the styling of vector elements into CSS, for example, and use the CSS to bind in more complex 'shadow' markup using XBL, or show a piece of HTML on a billboard in the midst of a large animation. All this is trivial with the stack as it is developing.

I think that a proper 'Web Zen Garden' site would be a good thing to show people some of what is possible using these technologies.
 
Arnia said:
It can't. To 'organise' the full range of visual trickery possible with the browser rendering stack of HTML, CSS, Javascript, SVG, XBL, MathML, Canvas 2D, Canvas 3D/WebGL, etc. would take a large directory. However, what can be done is to give pithy examples, like CSS Zen Garden did, to show others a snippet of what is possible by leveraging these multiple technologies in different ways. That is, I think, what makes this combination so powerful; you're not using a single piece of technology but can leverage multiple technologies to accomplish even more. You can separate out a lot of the styling of vector elements into CSS, for example, and use the CSS to bind in more complex 'shadow' markup using XBL, or show a piece of HTML on a billboard in the midst of a large animation. All this is trivial with the stack as it is developing.

I think that a proper 'Web Zen Garden' site would be a good thing to show people some of what is possible using these technologies.
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With these converging technologies, can you design content on a single timeline?
 
You know - for what it's worth - and I am NOT against HTML5, etc - but as buggy as Flash is - I find a lot of Javascript on the web very poor giving just as many problems with hanging systems, erroring out, etc.
 
I'm actually not against HTML5 either. I'm all for internet development avenues. If a video standard can be established for the new HTML, great. Then again, you still have different browsers pushing in different directions. As much as things change, the more they stay the same.

Meanwhile, I visited the CSS Garden. Been a bit since I last went there. Found this little piece of text interesting:

Unfortunately, designing this way highlights the flaws in the various implementations of CSS. Different browsers display differently, even completely valid CSS at times, and this becomes maddening when a fix for one leads to breakage in another. View the Resources page for information on some of the fixes available. Full browser compliance is still sometimes a pipe dream, and we do not expect you to come up with pixel-perfect code across every platform.

So, despite the advantages of CSS (I use it a bit in my own web designs) it still falls short in something that Flash has no problem with. Consistency across browsers and platforms. Granted, and this is going back to 2004 when I first started working with Flash, I was never a big fan of it for site navigation. I felt it removed the browser's native navigation too easily, and instead was best suited for animation and other novel interaction ideas. Still, this does not dispute the fact that Flash development is able to be presented with consistency and bypasses the browser wars and partial support that happens with multiple, multiple organizations trying to present the web as how they deem it to be interpreted. Flash simply shows what the designer intended.

And, as of February 19, 2010, the present we're living in, not the potential future, Apple's decision in this, obviously, is to cut the head off the one consistent design tool on the web today. Way to go.
 
FrankieTDouglas said:
But not the same video tag as other browsers, which is the point he was referring to.
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More accurately not the same CODEC for the video so if a site wants to support all browsers that can support draft-HTML5 video they need to encode the video twice and include both within the video tag.
 
*LTD* said:
How about, like, virtually all of YouTube.
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Except videos with ads. And no full screen support.

Take this new study from TubeMogul, the Web video-tracking service. It says that 44.7 percent of YouTube’s most viewed videos are professionally produced and/or products of YouTube’s “partner” program, meaning that YouTube has the ability to shove ads on them. That’s up from 36.3 percent six months ago.
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Link
 
robbieduncan said:
More accurately not the same CODEC for the video so if a site wants to support all browsers that can support draft-HTML5 video they need to encode the video twice and include both within the video tag.
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I think Firefox will have a really big struggle trying to popularise the Theora codec; h.264 just seems to be a more practical choice. The big advantage that h.264 has is that Flash can already play it, this lets you easily fallback to Flash when the video tag isn't available. Having loads of hardware support already out there is also a big plus point.
 
robbieduncan said:
I think this is possible with HTML 5 video elements, but browsers don't support it yet. The Sublime Video demo indicates that it can go full-screen with a recent WebKit nightly.

Ads should be possible too: just layer a div across the element.
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Ironically that Sublime Video just caused Safari to hang on me and I had to force quit it :) Not the best demonstration of HTML5 there.
 
YouTube now supports full-screen HTML5.

Updates!
1/27/2010: Fullscreen support enabled (if supported by browser).
 
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