Could Apple make a good console machine

[decafjava]

Yeah, but none really compare to pc or console games from even 5 years ago. Is there anything close to Diablo II? Oblivion? COD? The touchscreen is horrible for serious gaming, nothing compares to a good gamepad or keyboard/mouse setup.

EDIT: I went back and looked. You only posted one. That's not lot's.

Hi bossking, no I posted two, X-Plane and Labyrinth 2. Unless puzzle games are not "serious." I've previously posted on other threads as well btw. F-Sim Space Shuttle is another detailed sim (albeit of narrow scope only landing but then that's the only time the space shuttle was manually controlled). Unless you guys think the silly flying game that comes with the Nintendo 3DS is more "serious" (but it's 3d-well if you look at it the right way ). BTW I have played with the 3DS in the stores - a bit too long for staff maybe. Or you can fly even the AR Drone if you have money to burn.

Touchscreens can work well if the game is designed for them. I prefer Doom classic on my iphone because I find it easier to strafe with the accelerometer for example. I've seen little kids playing with touchscreens and grasping it quite quickly. Touchscreens just need some creative design from companies and I think some of the complaints here are from console gamers who are just not used to a different way of controlling them. Read John Cormack's blog for some interesting comments on designing/porting for touchscreens.

Look yes I am a PC gamer-though in a very narrow niche-WWII simulations and strategy-but there is no reason iDevices could not do as well at least in non-flying simulations or strategy type games.

Look at this one: http://www.wolves-of-the-atlantic.com/ a full-scale uboat sim for iphone and ipad. NOT an arcade type game but a sim on par with Silent Hunter.

Look you guys can google and read as well as I do-look here since you mentioned Diablo and such games.

http://toucharcade.com/category/games/role-playing/

http://toucharcade.com/category/games/strategy/

Haven't checked all of them and some of them are ports of popular franchises like Final Fantasy (FF III for ios got good reviews) but they are there. I know many of you dislike Infinity Blade but for an early effort at a made for touchscreen combat based RPG lite it's a great game! The fact it got such positive reviews everywhere can't have been for nothing.

I also find myself a bit confused as to what exactly we are comparing here. Are we comparing idevices to full-blown consoles/PCs? Or idevices to other handhelds like the Nintendos and PSP? Should we even lump the ipad together with the itouch/iphone? Issues of screen size, battery power all play here-eg. the iphone is also still a smartphone and it would not do running your battery down when you need to make an emergency call. Good thing I have an external battery.

To answer istudents remark about owning several consoles well would any of you buy a handheld and a home console? I can only speak for myself but I do not want another seperate handheld device (or 3 if I had an ipod as well a phone and a PSP) and play on my PC for longer games.

Look I'm not going to change anyone's mind who prefers other handhelds or full size consoles. Nor that Apple will steamroll the games market. All I'm saying is check out what I've posted and open your minds a little bit to some of the exciting new stuff devs are coming up with.

Like my current fave (and a classic ios type casual game) Contre Jour, a very beautiful game.

 

[boss.king]

If you count both control methods i would have to agree. Well except that I wouldn't call it horrible; just a bit awkward.

However keyboard+mouse is not really a viable input method for the handheld or couch gaming we're talking about here. So we should just be comparing it to the gamepad. Now a gamepad is still more practical for many genres, but for some like like RTS, Adventure, and certain types of RPG I'd argue that a touchscreen can work at least as well if not better.

Not really, it's pretty easy to plug a mouse and keyboard into a PS3 and just play on the couch (I used to do it with a few games). I agree that a touchscreen could be good in some situations but physical controls win in most scenarios, mainly just because you don't have to look at them as often, allowing you to have faster response times and become more immersed in the game.

Hi bossking, no I posted two, X-Plane and Labyrinth 2. Unless puzzle games are not "serious." I've previously posted on other threads as well btw. F-Sim Space Shuttle is another detailed sim (albeit of narrow scope only landing but then that's the only time the space shuttle was manually controlled). Unless you guys think the silly flying game that comes with the Nintendo 3DS is more "serious" (but it's 3d-well if you look at it the right way ). BTW I have played with the 3DS in the stores - a bit too long for staff maybe. Or you can fly even the AR Drone if you have money to burn.

Touchscreens can work well if the game is designed for them. I prefer Doom classic on my iphone because I find it easier to strafe with the accelerometer for example. I've seen little kids playing with touchscreens and grasping it quite quickly. Touchscreens just need some creative design from companies and I think some of the complaints here are from console gamers who are just not used to a different way of controlling them. Read John Cormack's blog for some interesting comments on designing/porting for touchscreens.

Look yes I am a PC gamer-though in a very narrow niche-WWII simulations and strategy-but there is no reason iDevices could not do as well at least in non-flying simulations or strategy type games.

Look at this one: http://www.wolves-of-the-atlantic.com/ a full-scale uboat sim for iphone and ipad. NOT an arcade type game but a sim on par with Silent Hunter.

Look you guys can google and read as well as I do-look here since you mentioned Diablo and such games.

http://toucharcade.com/category/games/role-playing/

http://toucharcade.com/category/games/strategy/

Haven't checked all of them and some of them are ports of popular franchises like Final Fantasy (FF III for ios got good reviews) but they are there. I know many of you dislike Infinity Blade but for an early effort at a made for touchscreen combat based RPG lite it's a great game! The fact it got such positive reviews everywhere can't have been for nothing.

I also find myself a bit confused as to what exactly we are comparing here. Are we comparing idevices to full-blown consoles/PCs? Or idevices to other handhelds like the Nintendos and PSP? Should we even lump the ipad together with the itouch/iphone? Issues of screen size, battery power all play here-eg. the iphone is also still a smartphone and it would not do running your battery down when you need to make an emergency call. Good thing I have an external battery.

To answer istudents remark about owning several consoles well would any of you buy a handheld and a home console? I can only speak for myself but I do not want another seperate handheld device (or 3 if I had an ipod as well a phone and a PSP) and play on my PC for longer games.

Look I'm not going to change anyone's mind who prefers other handhelds or full size consoles. Nor that Apple will steamroll the games market. All I'm saying is check out what I've posted and open your minds a little bit to some of the exciting new stuff devs are coming up with.

Like my current fave (and a classic ios type casual game) Contre Jour, a very beautiful game.

Lol, sorry I must have missed Labyrinth 2. Anyway, I think our conversation has gotten a little off track. I agree that there are some very good games for iOS, my argument was simply that as a serious gaming platform it can't really compete. And you're right, there has been a bit of confusion as to what is being compared. When I brought up iOS I was trying to show that Apple does not really have the big back-catalogue of games that console and PC gamers have access to, and so it would not be a favoured gaming platform. This would be true if Apple tried their hand at a full-blown console as well.

I've checked out some of the games you've linked, but to be honest I find gaming on my iPhone to be a wholly uncomfortable experience. The screen is too small for my fingers for delicate games, and after a while my hands and the phone become warmer than I'd like. This could be because my phone is outdated, but as a result, I find games like Cut The Rope and Hungry Shark to be as complex as I wish to get on device this small. Personally, I'd prefer to leave real gaming to my computer and mini-games on my phone.

 

[APlotdevice]

Not really, it's pretty easy to plug a mouse and keyboard into a PS3 and just play on the couch (I used to do it with a few games). I agree that a touchscreen could be good in some situations but physical controls win in most scenarios, mainly just because you don't have to look at them as often, allowing you to have faster response times and become more immersed in the game. .

I've done the whole mouse and keyboard thing with my PS3 too. It sucked. First if you use a wired keyboard and mouse you're constrained to the length of the wires. And even wireless ones often don't have very good range (the first mouse I tried didn't). Then if you actually want to lay back, instead of leaning over a table, it means balancing the keyboard on your lap carefully so that tapping the keys doesn't cause it to seesaw, while running the mouse over the cushions. All in all not a remotely ideal setup.

 

[0098386]

As a gamer and developer with products on the iOS store, and as a co-producer on a large in-development iOS game, nah. They're nice time wasters but if I want to play games I'll reboot into Windows, or curl up with a DS/3DS or PSP game in bed.

Consoles aren't bad either but the experience is usually much better on a PC/Mac.

I guess it doesn't help with large developers making watered down ports. Street Fighter 4, MGS4, Dead Space. They're awful on iOS.

 

[boss.king]

I've done the whole mouse and keyboard thing with my PS3 too. It sucked. First if you use a wired keyboard and mouse you're constrained to the length of that. And even wireless ones often don't have very good range (the first mouse I tried didn't). Then you you actually want to lay back, instead of leaning over a table, it means balancing the keyboard on your lap carefully so that tapping the keys doesn't cause it to seesaw, while running the mouse over the cushions. All in all not a remotely ideal setup.

1) Wireless everything is a must for this, don't bother with wired stuff unless you have some usb extensions.
2) Most wireless keyboards and mice have a range of about 10-15m (probably the same as the wireless gamepads). How big is your house if that wasn't far enough?
3) Place your keyboard so that the edges are on your thighs. Most full sized keyboards will fit comfortably.
4) Use the mouse on the armrest of the couch or on a cushion. Most modern mice shouldn't have any problem tracking on a couch, if they do, use a phonebook.
5) Sit upright on the couch. It's better for your back anyway.

Not difficult at all. Most of that should be common sense anyway

 

[APlotdevice]

1) Wireless everything is a must for this, don't bother with wired stuff unless you have some usb extensions.
2) Most wireless keyboards and mice have a range of about 10-15m (probably the same as the wireless gamepads). How big is your house if that wasn't far enough?
3) Place your keyboard so that the edges are on your thighs. Most full sized keyboards will fit comfortably.
4) Use the mouse on the armrest of the couch or on a cushion. Most modern mice shouldn't have any problem tracking on a couch, if they do, use a phonebook.
5) Sit upright on the couch. It's better for your back anyway.

Not difficult at all. Most of that should be common sense anyway

2.) No wireless mouse I've used has ever had the same range as a wireless gamepad. I doubt there is much incentive for most manufacturers, since computer mice are rarely used at the same distance as a gamepad. In this case the mouse became unresponsive after about 2 meters.
3.) that is not what I would consider comfortable.
4.) I'm more concerned with dirt and damage to the pads.
5.) if couches where meant to be sat up on, they wouldn't come with nice comfortable backs.

And let's be realistic here. For console gaming the mouse and keyboard will never be more than a niche controller. Few console developers will ever support them. Few console gamers will ever use them. And Apple has Macs to compete with the PC. So it just doesn't make any sense to compare this particular input method.

 

[*LTD*]

I don't have an iPad anymore. And yes, I agree that we are way past Angry Birds. It still doesn't disprove the fact that people will prefer their TV consoles over a touchscreen tablet.

I can certainly agree with this. Tablets still have a way to go when we make this particular comparison.

 

[boss.king]

2.) No wireless mouse I've used has ever had the same range as a wireless gamepad. I doubt there is much incentive for the manufacturers, since computer mice are rarely used at the same distance as a gamepad.
3.) that is not what I would consider comfortable.
4.) I'm more concerned with dirt and damage to the pads.
5.) if couches where meant to sit up on, they wouldn't come with nice comfortable backs.

And let's be realistic here. For console gaming the mouse and keyboard will never be more than a niche controller. Few console developers will ever support them. Few console gamers will ever use them. And Apple has Macs to compete with the PC. So it just doesn't make any sense to compare this particular input method.

I just tested it out, my free Microsoft mouse and keyboard work from 15m away through thick concrete walls. It doesn't get much better than that. Maybe you need some new peripherals. Also, the pads on a mouse are made to be dragged across hard surfaces, dirt is not a problem, and damage is certainly not (unless you meant damage to your couch, which could happen from extensive use). You can still sit back while being upright, I just meant don't slouch.

My point is, it's still a valid input method, it just isn't for everyone. Also, Macs are no threat to Windows machines in terms of gaming, you can build a Windows gaming machine that will tear a Mac Pro to shreds at a fraction of the cost, and with more games.

 

[APlotdevice]

I just tested it out, my free Microsoft mouse and keyboard work from 15m away through thick concrete walls. It doesn't get much better than that. Maybe you need some new peripherals. Also, the pads on a mouse are made to be dragged across hard surfaces, dirt is not a problem, and damage is certainly not (unless you meant damage to your couch, which could happen from extensive use). You can still sit back while being upright, I just meant don't slouch.

My point is, it's still a valid input method, it just isn't for everyone. Also, Macs are no threat to Windows machines in terms of gaming, you can build a Windows gaming machine that will tear a Mac Pro to shreds at a fraction of the cost, and with more games.

Well the mouse I used became unresponsive after about two meters.

Rough, uneven surfaces can wear on the glue that holds the pads to the mouse. Eventually causing them to fall off.

I didn't say Macs were I threat. Just that they are what compete with the PC. What we are talking here is something to compete with game consoles. Now only one console this gen even fully supports a mouse and keyboard. With just a tiny, frankly insignificant number of games taking advantage of that support.

And you know I just realized that an AirPlay style game could theoretically exploit a keyboard and mouse-ish control scheme. Using the iDevice as either a trackpad or air-mouse and a Bluetooth keyboard synced with it.

 

[Photics]

Yeah, they're degrading the quality of portable gaming to the point that these games need to cost 99 cents because if they cost any more, nobody would buy them. Not the kind of change most gamers want.

While I think that the 99¢ syndrome on iOS is a problem, I'm reminded of a trip to Best Buy last year. There was an XBOX 360 on display, running a 3D version of the popular board game — The Game of Life. I thought it was a cool game. Yet, did I need another dust collector next to my TV? Did I really want to spend a lot of money on a Board Game? With iOS, I didn't have to. EA launched a Christmas sale, and I picked up the iOS version of the game for 99¢. I don't remember exactly what the price for the XBOX 360 version was. It wasn't $60, but it wasn't cheap like iOS.

So while I don't think that it's healthy for the industry to have a 99¢ standard, as really good games are expensive to make, I don't think $50-$60 games are helping either. Without Apple and iOS, what would force the gaming industry to be more competitive?

No worries. Nintendo and Sony, which haven't done anything significant in the portable market for over half a decade, are now coming back to innovate.

How are they exactly innovating? The 3DS had to be significantly dropped in price because sales were pretty lousy. As for Sony... they're starting to use Android. How is using someone else's software innovative? That doesn't say to me that consoles are leading in innovation... it shows me that smartphone operating systems are disrupting their business.

When I finally saw the 3DS in person, I was unimpressed. The reason is simple. I don't have to leave the house with Batman's utility belt. My iPhone can play games.

I've seen your blog and seen you repeat those quotes all over the internet. If you use sheer number of users as your only metric, then yeah the Game Center is a success. But that ignores the finer realities. For example, over half of XBox Live users pay to use that service. How many iOS users do you think would be willing to pay to keep an ugly looking scoreboard on their phone? Speaks volumes about the quality of Game Center and shows no matter how many XBox Live comparisons get thrown around, they're not equal.

Could Game Center be improved? Yeah... and I'm not arguing against that. I'm not even bashing XBOX Live. Yet, I think a lot of people are being unusually critical of a free and apparently popular service. XBOX Live has been around for almost a decade. Game Center has been around about a year.

The point of this thread is this —*could Apple make a good console machine?

Clearly, they can. Clearly they are!

 

[Liquorpuki]

As far as iOS gaming goes, we are waaay past Angry Birds.

On the iPad App Store paid games chart for this week, Angry Birds Seasons is #2 and Angry Birds HD is #4. On the iPhone App Store chart, Angry Birds Seasons is #2, Angry Birds is #3. And on the iPhone, #1 goes to an EA ripoff of Flight Control, which shows they've learned the SOP for making money off iOS gaming - steal someone else's idea, replace everything with animals, and cripple the gameflow unless they do an in-app purchase.

Basically, you guys are not past Angry Birds yet. The charts prove it.

While I think that the 99¢ syndrome on iOS is a problem, I'm reminded of a trip to Best Buy last year. There was an XBOX 360 on display, running a 3D version of the popular board game — The Game of Life. I thought it was a cool game. Yet, did I need another dust collector next to my TV? Did I really want to spend a lot of money on a Board Game? With iOS, I didn't have to. EA launched a Christmas sale, and I picked up the iOS version of the game for 99¢. I don't remember exactly what the price for the XBOX 360 version was. It wasn't $60, but it wasn't cheap like iOS.

This is the difference between AAA games and the whole $1 disposable / Freemium mess on iOS. On consoles and portables, the AAA games (big budget, large dev teams, cinematic experience, etc) move units. Game of Life and all the other niche games don't. On iOS, these niche games become the bestsellers, along with glorified minigames, IP ripoffs and ports of 10 year old games. AAA games cease to exist.

Though for whatever reason, some people (analysts *cough*) can't seem to tell the difference between a new AAA Mario game and an iOS game where you cut a rope. So they act like the two are interchangeable and imply the future of gaming is one where all we wanna do is cut rope, throw birds at pigs, and play games that start with the word Doodle.

How are they exactly innovating? The 3DS had to be significantly dropped in price because sales were pretty lousy. As for Sony... they're starting to use Android. How is using someone else's software innovative? That doesn't say to me that consoles are leading in innovation... it shows me that smartphone operating systems are disrupting their business.

Understand those companies hadn't done anything significant except make minor revisions to existing hardware for the last half a decade. This is when iOS stepped in and disrupted the business. If you're a gaming market leader that isn't pushing new hardware when smartphone tech is catching up and a casual game explosion is happening at the same time, expect to get hurt. But no matter what, iOS is never gonna be able to put out the AAA games that define quality on a console or portable. Its pricing trends and low standards actually encourage the opposite. Even $1 isn't a low enough pricepoint anymore in some respects because big name devs are mass migrating to Freemium. And because of the low quality, you don't have to be AAA quality to have a hit - you just have to be better than the other 99.9% of crap in the app store. Which is why Kairosoft can hit the top of the charts every month putting out sims that have 8 bit graphics.

Far as 3DS and innovation, the 3DS had a failed launch because it didn't have any must-have games, not because it wasn't innovative. Unlike iOS, where I'd buy an iPhone even if it couldn't play games on, games move consoles/handhelds. As killer games trickle out between now and X-Mas, the 3DS will have a turnaround. As for the Vita, you're using the OS to tokenize innovation and ignoring its hardware and games for the sake of argument.

 

[*LTD*]

On the iPad App Store paid games chart for this week, Angry Birds Seasons is #2 and Angry Birds HD is #4. On the iPhone App Store chart, Angry Birds Seasons is #2, Angry Birds is #3. And on the iPhone, #1 goes to an EA ripoff of Flight Control, which shows they've learned the SOP for making money off iOS gaming - steal someone else's idea, replace everything with animals, and cripple the gameflow unless they do an in-app purchase.

Basically, you guys are not past Angry Birds yet. The charts prove it.

Absolutely, it's still popular.

The iPad version of Dead Space, however, exists (first of all), and second, has gotten 4.5 out of 5 stars, over 214 Ratings for all versions, and the same over 48 ratings for the current version. So not only does something like the calibre of Dead Space exist for iOS, it's also apparently implemented quite well.

Same story for Dungeon Hunter 2 HD.

Have a look at BackStab. Same story.

http://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/backstab/id440313496?mt=8

Silent Ops:

http://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/silent-ops/id436960460?mt=8

9mm:

http://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/9mm/id424674035?mt=8

Iron man 2, Thor, Transformers, the list goes on.

Angry Birds has a lot of charm and has wide appeal. That's obvious from the get-go. However, the quality, depth and calibre of games on iOS has risen incredibly in barely what, a year, year and half? Just imagine where it'll be a year from now.

And just as a quick reminder, now we have this:

http://www.tuaw.com/2011/06/17/ios-5-airplay-mirroring-demo-brings-games-and-more-to-the-big-sc/

All told, in barely more than a year and a half.

 

[Liquorpuki]

Absolutely, it's still popular.

The iPad version of Dead Space, however, exists (first of all), and second, has gotten 4.5 out of 5 stars, over 214 Ratings for all versions, and the same over 48 ratings for the current version. So not only does something like the calibre of Dead Space exist for iOS, it's also apparently implemented quite well.

That rating system exists in a bubble - rating iOS games within the low standard that is iOS gaming, not iOS gaming relative to other platforms. From what I've seen browsing the app store over the past few years, any rating below 3 usually means the game doesn't work. Or that the user has some feature he wants in it and is holding back a couple stars until the dev listens to him.

Dungeon Hunter 2 = Gameloft ripoff of Diablo

Silent Ops = Gameloft ripoff of Splinter Cell

9mm = Gameloft ripoff of Max Payne

Backstab = Gameloft ripoff of Assassin's Creed

Marvel IP = On consoles/handhelds, these crappy movie tie-ins regularly get poor reviews. Yet on iOS, the same incarnation gets a great review, because there's nothing better.

This is what I mean by iOS having a quality problem.

 

[*LTD*]

Dungeon Hunter 2 = Gameloft ripoff of Diablo

Silent Ops = Gameloft ripoff of Splinter Cell

9mm = Gameloft ripoff of Max Payne

Backstab = Gameloft ripoff of Assassin's Creed

None of which suggests anything beyond the fact that there is a burgeoning market for alternatives to the old standbys, most of which are not only well-implemented enough to garner decent ratings, but which are also part of a market that is absolutely exploding - at a much greater pace than the other "video game" segments in consumer tech.

Then of course, we have big names like EA bringing versions of their successful titles to iOS, e.g., Madden NFL 12, Mortal Kombat, etc.

More here:

http://www.ea.com/ipad

(There's also Assassin's Creed for the iPad, by the way.)

Interesting:

http://n4g.com/news/549483/ipad-running-dragon-age-origins-and-assassins-creed-2-via-onlive

 

[chrono1081]

It's worth pointing out that Nintendo sells their systems at a profit (or at least not at a loss) from day one. Always has.

Yes this is true. Stores however make no profit on Nintendo systems. Years and years ago when I worked at KB Toys and the Gameboy Advance came out each one sold took $10 out of store profits. I forget the hit that was taken on the gamecube. It wasn't much though.

 

[Liquorpuki]

None of which suggests anything beyond the fact that there is a burgeoning market for alternatives to the old standbys, most of which are not only well-implemented enough to garner decent ratings, but which are also part of a market that is absolutely exploding - at a much greater pace than the other "video game" segments in consumer tech.

Once again, those ratings exist in a box. And the only part of the gaming market that is exploding is casual and social gaming, which Gameloft has nothing to do with because they don't make games for bored housewives. Actually Gameloft's CEO has said he's intentionally keeping his company away from casual/social gaming because he thinks it's a bubble.

Instead, Gameloft is in the business of making half-assed hardcore games for iOS so they follow their formula of ripping off IP and adding enough polish to make their games look better than the typical crap in the app store. And since there's nothing better, their ripoffs sell. There is no burgeoning market for alternatives on iOS because there are no alternatives on iOS.

Then of course, we have big names like EA bringing versions of their successful titles to iOS, e.g., Madden NFL 12, Mortal Kombat, etc.

More here:

http://www.ea.com/ipad

And they're all terrible ports or Freemium cashgrabs. But in iOS world, you don't need to put out quality. You just need to put out something that is a notch above the usual crap in the app store. So when EA ports Mortal Kombat, replaces the sprite based characters with terrible 3D models, cuts half the roster, and makes it impossible to control, people buy it anyway and give it 5 stars. Because compared to the X number of games where a piece of notebook paper is used as a backdrop because the dev doesn't know how to do graphics, Mortal Kombat looks like 5 stars.

What's funny is EA is the opposite of Gameloft and is banking on casual/social gaming NOT being a bubble. Since they're the only company that's on a shopping spree to buy as many casual/social/freemium development studios as they possibly can, I'm assuming that's what they're doing. So far they've bought out Popcap, Chillingo, Firemint, Playfish and Bight. They're either on to something or out of their mind. Based on their track record I wouldn't be surprised if they were out of their mind. They also have a nice habit of ruining the IP they acquire so if you were a fan of Plants vs Zombies or Real Racing, you should cross your fingers.

(There's also Assassin's Creed for the iPad, by the way.)

Yeah, and it's a sidescroller with minigames and control problems.

 

[decafjava]

Liquorpuki have you checked out any of the links I posted (boss.king has and made valid points in rebuttal) - you really cant say the quality is not there.

Look you are right-the gaming experience on an idevice will never be as good as on a dedicated fullsize console or desktop. But the quality and innovation is there for ios and won't go away.

edit: Just one more point, I know a few devs of ios apps/games from other forums and they are very creative people as are many who develop games for older platforms so that is why I can't agree with the "no creative games for ios" remark.

 

[*LTD*]

Liquorpuki have you checked out any of the links I posted (boss.king has and made valid points in rebuttal) - you really cant say the quality is not there.

Look you are right-the gaming experience on an idevice will never be as good as on a dedicated fullsize console or desktop. But the quality and innovation is there for ios and won't go away.

Some folks are a little more optimistic about that:

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/...le-that-mobile-will-surpass-current-consoles/

id Software’s Carmack: ‘Unquestionable’ that mobile will surpass current game consoles

“id Software’s John Carmack has taken a greater and greater interest in mobile gaming over the last couple years, and the rate at which the hardware iterates in the smartphone and tablet space has allowed the technology to nearly catch up with consoles,” James Brightman reports for IndustryGamers.

“In a recent interview with Carmack, IndustryGamers asked whether mobile could become so popular that it’ll one day overtake traditional console gaming,” Brightman reports. “‘That’s one of the things that we do discuss internally a lot and it’s amazing to think that when we started Rage, iOS didn’t exist. There was no iPhone. All of that has happened just in the space of one project development timeline. And that’s a little scary when you think about it, because major landscape change could be happening underneath our feet as we work on these large scale projects,’ noted Carmack. ‘And we’re going to be doing everything we can to constrain our projects more to not take so long… it’s unquestionable that within a very short time, we’re going to have portable cell phones that are more powerful than the current-gen consoles.’”

 

[boss.king]

Some folks are a little more optimistic about that:

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/...le-that-mobile-will-surpass-current-consoles/

id Software’s Carmack: ‘Unquestionable’ that mobile will surpass current game consoles

“id Software’s John Carmack has taken a greater and greater interest in mobile gaming over the last couple years, and the rate at which the hardware iterates in the smartphone and tablet space has allowed the technology to nearly catch up with consoles,” James Brightman reports for IndustryGamers.

“In a recent interview with Carmack, IndustryGamers asked whether mobile could become so popular that it’ll one day overtake traditional console gaming,” Brightman reports. “‘That’s one of the things that we do discuss internally a lot and it’s amazing to think that when we started Rage, iOS didn’t exist. There was no iPhone. All of that has happened just in the space of one project development timeline. And that’s a little scary when you think about it, because major landscape change could be happening underneath our feet as we work on these large scale projects,’ noted Carmack. ‘And we’re going to be doing everything we can to constrain our projects more to not take so long… it’s unquestionable that within a very short time, we’re going to have portable cell phones that are more powerful than the current-gen consoles.’”

I think the biggest point being made though is not about power, it's about user experience while playing. It's not that surprising to hear that modern technology will be better than something released in 2006. I'd still rather play a lower res game if it was more comfortable and gave a better experience. My favourite game ever is a PS1 game (Metal Gear Solid) that still gives iOS games a run for their money in terms of genuine fun.

 

[Liquorpuki]

Liquorpuki have you checked out any of the links I posted (boss.king has and made valid points in rebuttal) - you really cant say the quality is not there.

Look you are right-the gaming experience on an idevice will never be as good as on a dedicated fullsize console or desktop. But the quality and innovation is there for ios and won't go away.

edit: Just one more point, I know a few devs of ios apps/games from other forums and they are very creative people as are many who develop games for older platforms so that is why I can't agree with the "no creative games for ios" remark.

Yeah I have and they're good titles. The exception is not the rule though.

The rule for the 3DS is a Mario Game with a standard of quality so high, Nintendo won't even release it early even though its handheld badly needs it to sell units. The rule on iOS is the same Angry Birds flash game with minor graphical changes to capitalize on Chinese New Year.

You can take a niche genre like Roller Coaster sims. In the future, the 3DS is getting a 3D revamp of Roller Coaster Tycoon. In the future, iOS is getting a port of Theme Park except EA is converting it to Freemium.

You get what you pay for and these are quality issues reinforced by the app store's bottom of barrel pricing and Apple's quality indifference. For every dev who wants to take the time to make something good like X Plane, there are 1000 other devs who recognize you don't need to spend that kind of time, energy and money to turn a profit. All you gotta do is take the same physics, farming, or line drawing game, reskin it, price it at 99 cents or Freemium, and a million bored housewives will buy it. Or if you're a big name developer, port your 10 year old IP to iOS and even if it's a lousy port, people will buy it. Or if you're Gameloft, rip off some big name IP, put out something that remotely resembles a AAA game, and cater to the iOS gamers lamenting the lack of hardcore games on their phone.

We can even get into why the quality on iOS is so bad. Nintendo needs to have quality games on the market or their hardware won't sell, which is what happened to the 3DS post launch. When Sony puts out the Vita, Uncharted and all those AAA launch games better be good or nobody will buy the Vita. So Nintendo and Sony are as vested in the software as they are in their handhelds/consoles. Apple, on the other hand, is doing zero game publishing and development. They don't need to. Even if all their games suck, people will still buy an iPad or an iPhone and use iOS for other reasons.

Out of necessity, Nintendo has gone on to develop some of the most well-known games and characters in video game history. Sony's IP ranges from Gran Turismo to SOCOM to Resistance. For Apple though, as long as the software helps sell iDevices, it doesn't care about its quality. This is why every time they put out a new iDevice, they hype up some underwhelming app (Pages, iMovie, iBooks, Garageband) and promptly forget about it once its purpose is served. Unless Apple does some kind of intervention, iOS gaming will continue to consist of minigames, ripoffs, and crappy ports and suck in comparison to other platforms. And because quality matters to gamers, those other platforms will not die, no matter what the analysts say.

 

[LethalWolfe]

What always confuses me about discussions like these is the apparent assumption that the market is permanently set at size X and thus everything ever made is fighting a zero sum game for that user base. The market expands. It shifts and there a new niches and old niches. It's not an either or scenario.

It's like arguing over which is better, a subcompact economy car, a cargo van or an exotic sports car. They are different vehicles for different types of people and they can coexist.


Lethal

 

[Liquorpuki]

What always confuses me about discussions like these is the apparent assumption that the market is permanently set at size X and thus everything ever made is fighting a zero sum game for that user base. The market expands. It shifts and there a new niches and old niches. It's not an either or scenario.

Anyone who's ever argued that Apple is killing Nintendo has made this assumption. The key market expansion over the past few years has been in casual and social games. Facebook and smartphones are a big part of that. Consoles and handhelds aren't. But the expansion isn't gonna kill consoles/handhelds because it involves a whole new demographic (middle aged women) who wouldn't be playing games otherwise. Nintendo, Sony, etc still retains most of their core base.

I've always argued the only way Apple would kill Nintendo, Sony, etc is if they did what Nintendo and Sony does and did it better - put out AAA games - games that are good enough on their own to sell hardware. Instead, they just sit back and let their app store overload itself with disposable 99 cent junk and Freemium ware.