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Other Could the 13 mini be repositioned as small mid-tier offering?

S

satchmo

macrumors 603
Original poster
Aug 6, 2008
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It’s no secret the iPhone mini sales have been average. All this talk about it going away, or the SE2 becoming the new mini.

Maybe Apple needs to see if there truly is a market for a smaller phone. And realizing many who do, are not power users (yes, some are of course). But they just need one with a modern CPU, no 5G, decent battery with an all-screen 60hz display.

So like the of the SE2, it eschews the bells and whistles, but has a powerful CPU. So the mini drops by $100 and the 11 by $50 (becoming the large mid-tier option)

SE2 - $399
XR - $499 > discontinued
11 - $599 > $549
13 mini - $699 > $599
13 - $799
 
satchmo said:
It’s no secret the iPhone mini sales have been average. All this talk about it going away, or the SE2 becoming the new mini.

Maybe Apple needs to see if there truly is a market for a smaller phone. And realizing many who do, are not power users (yes, some are of course). But they just need one with a modern CPU, no 5G, decent battery with an all-screen 60hz display.

So like the of the SE2, it eschews the bells and whistles, but has a powerful CPU. So the mini drops by $100 and the 11 by $50 (becoming the large mid-tier option)

SE2 - $399
XR - $499 > discontinued
11 - $599 > $549
13 mini - $699 > $599
13 - $799
Click to expand...
What would make sense is for Apple to sell the iPhone 13 mini for $599 and the regular 13 for $699.

When Apple raised the price of the iPhone 12 to accommodate the iPhone 12 mini, it became too close to the iPhone 12 Pro. The 128 GB iPhone 12 costs $879 and the 128 GB iPhone 12 Pro costs $999, and very little differentiates them both. Apple could have some different price ranges and some real differences between them to justify the coexistence of both products.
 
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skaertus said:
What would make sense is for Apple to sell the iPhone 13 mini for $599 and the regular 13 for $699.

When Apple raised the price of the iPhone 12 to accommodate the iPhone 12 mini, it became too close to the iPhone 12 Pro. The 128 GB iPhone 12 costs $879 and the 128 GB iPhone 12 Pro costs $999, and very little differentiates them both. Apple could have some different price ranges and some real differences between them to justify the coexistence of both products.
Click to expand...
I agree the price differential needed to be greater with the 12, but there are also too many other options ie. XR and 11.

I also don’t see Apple knocking $100 without cutting some features out.
 
jav6454 said:
The Mini should be scrapped from the line. Apple has once again fallen into the way too many SKUs before the 2nd Jobs era. Mind, you a single unit is not good, but neither are 5 different phone flavours with 4-5 colors. Best do 2 SKU for phones really well.
Click to expand...
I wote for the XR to get rid of.

but with sales numbers its very different to the times before jobs. They sell now hunderds of millions more units than before…
 
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Every year, Apple introduces a new version of iOS that lets you do more. It’s your TV, driver’s license, car keys, live text translator, FaceTime with screen share, etc.

People buy a new iPhone because they want to do more and do it faster. Nobody wants to go backwards. Fundamentally, the iPhone 12 mini is inconsistent with Apple’s own vision.

This is not about a $100 difference or whether or not it has 5G. Consumers don’t want a small display. They don’t want to go backwards from a 5.5” or 5.8” display. Not many people want to pay $599 to get $399 worth of features.
 
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JPack said:
Every year, Apple introduces a new version of iOS that lets you do more. It’s your TV, driver’s license, car keys, live text translator, FaceTime with screen share, etc.

People buy a new iPhone because they want to do more and do it faster. Nobody wants to go backwards. Fundamentally, the iPhone 12 mini is inconsistent with Apple’s own vision.

This is not about a $100 difference or whether or not it has 5G. Consumers don’t want a small display. They don’t want to go backwards from a 5.5” or 5.8” display. Not many people want to pay $599 to get $399 worth of features.
Click to expand...

Sorry Jpack i disagree with this. Apple showed at least some innovation with the iphone 12 mini, by offering the smallest possible chassis size with the largest possible screen, with all the exact same features as the 6.1 iphone 12. There is no other phone like this on the market. Apple vision is to innovate right, well the 12 mini ticks that box to a degree, where as the larger 12 models (as good as they are) basically follow the mainstream trend and are not that different from other android flagships. The other issue here is choice. More choice is good, choice is freedom.

Anyway you will get your wish to see the mini variant scrapped, as the 13 mini will likely be the last of the minis, then we will get 2 6.1 phones and 2 6.7 phones, and then Apples complete domination of the niche small phone market gone in the process.
 
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JPack said:
Every year, Apple introduces a new version of iOS that lets you do more. It’s your TV, driver’s license, car keys, live text translator, FaceTime with screen share, etc.

People buy a new iPhone because they want to do more and do it faster. Nobody wants to go backwards. Fundamentally, the iPhone 12 mini is inconsistent with Apple’s own vision.

This is not about a $100 difference or whether or not it has 5G. Consumers don’t want a small display. They don’t want to go backwards from a 5.5” or 5.8” display. Not many people want to pay $599 to get $399 worth of features.
Click to expand...
How is a smaller screen going backwards? They're not worst tech, just the same screen but smaller. An iPhone with a 12" screen would be going forwards? Because you're going from a 5,8" to 12"
 
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satchmo said:
I agree the price differential needed to be greater with the 12, but there are also too many other options ie. XR and 11.

I also don’t see Apple knocking $100 without cutting some features out.
Click to expand...
Or adding some features to the higher-end product. Apple could add "ProMotion" and other features to the Pro version, allowing it to be really different from the non-Pro.

It seems to me that the only reason for the iPhone 12 and the iPhone 12 Pro to coexist is to keep what Tim Cook calls the "price points". They are virtually identical, except for the better camera, the LiDAR scanner, and for the materials.
 
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snipr125 said:
Sorry Jpack i disagree with this. Apple showed at least some innovation with the iphone 12 mini, by offering the smallest possible chassis size with the largest possible screen, with all the exact same features as the 6.1 iphone 12. There is no other phone like this on the market. Apple vision is to innovate right, well the 12 mini ticks that box to a degree, where as the larger 12 models (as good as they are) basically follow the mainstream trend and are not that different from other android flagships. The other issue here is choice. More choice is good, choice is freedom.

Anyway you will get your wish to see the mini variant scrapped, as the 13 mini will likely be the last of the minis, then we will get 2 6.1 phones and 2 6.7 phones, and then Apples complete domination of the niche small phone market gone in the process.
Click to expand...

Sure, there’s innovation in a compact device but most consumers don’t see it that way. Everything from Home Screen widgets to picture-in-picture video suggests people want to do more on screen. A tiny screen is the opposite of that. It isn’t a coincidence the iPad mini is increasing to 8.4” and the MacBook Pro is going 14”.
 
jdavid_rp said:
How is a smaller screen going backwards? They're not worst tech, just the same screen but smaller. An iPhone with a 12" screen would be going forwards? Because you're going from a 5,8" to 12"
Click to expand...

It’s about doing more with the ever increasing processing power. The iPhone is becoming a general computing device, which means you need a larger display to do more. You ever try to do a Teams or Zoom call with someone sharing their display? It’s terrible on a small screen.
 
JPack said:
Sure, there’s innovation in a compact device but most consumers don’t see it that way. Everything from Home Screen widgets to picture-in-picture video suggests people want to do more on screen. A tiny screen is the opposite of that. It isn’t a coincidence the iPad mini is increasing to 8.4” and the MacBook Pro is going 14”.
Click to expand...
Jpack, the 12 mini has followed the same path as the examples you stated. The small iphone screen size has gone from 3.5” to 4” to 4.7”, and now 5.4”. Also another thing, with ios you do not get more rows of icons with larger displays, they are all the same. Apple thus far has failed to take advantage of the larger screen real estate on the home screen. Only videos and websites can take advantage of it.
 
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JPack said:
It’s about doing more with the ever increasing processing power. The iPhone is becoming a general computing device, which means you need a larger display to do more. You ever try to do a Teams or Zoom call with someone sharing their display? It’s terrible on a small screen.
Click to expand...
Well, then apple should put a USB-C port, so we can connect a screen and use iPadOS on a 24" inch display and really use that processing power for more than a videocall.

I dont work with my phone so I dont need to play for extra inches that I dont want. I watch Youtube,netflix, whatever on my iPhone 12 mini and im happy with it, so small and light that sometimes I dont feel it in my pockets. If you need a bigger screen, buy the Max one, but some people want a Mini, and a full fledged mini, not like samsung ones.
 
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I'm doubtful the iPhone 13 mini will be cheaper. If anything, I think it might be more expensive.

Considering the fact that people that want a cheap iPhone will buy the SE or the iPhone 11, lowering the price of the mini probably won't lead to a big increase in sales.

On the other hand, people that actually buy the mini because they love small phones will still buy a mini regardless of the price.

I would buy the 13 mini even if it was as expensive as the 13 pro.
 
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Apple makes Pro Max for people love the big screen. Don't need to blah blah blah small screen!
 
jdavid_rp said:
Well, then apple should put a USB-C port, so we can connect a screen and use iPadOS on a 24" inch display and really use that processing power for more than a videocall.

I dont work with my phone so I dont need to play for extra inches that I dont want. I watch Youtube,netflix, whatever on my iPhone 12 mini and im happy with it, so small and light that sometimes I dont feel it in my pockets. If you need a bigger screen, buy the Max one, but some people want a Mini, and a full fledged mini, not like samsung ones.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't work. iPhone would likely overheat.

iPhone 12 mini doesn't have a heatspreader unlike iPad Air A14 which has one on top and bottom of the package.
 
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snipr125 said:
Jpack, the 12 mini has followed the same path as the examples you stated. The small iphone screen size has gone from 3.5” to 4” to 4.7”, and now 5.4”. Also another thing, with ios you do not get more rows of icons with larger displays, they are all the same. Apple thus far has failed to take advantage of the larger screen real estate on the home screen. Only videos and websites can take advantage of it.
Click to expand...

No, the mainstream iPhone model has gone from 3.5" - 4.0" - 4.7" - 6.1".

So because the Home Screen doesn't have more rows, means what? That 6.1" and 6.7" users don't benefit from a larger display?

Let's look at some iOS 15 screenshots from Apple. Virtually every app benefits from a bigger display.

1626313203317.png1626313210401.png1626313220895.png
 
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satchmo said:
It’s no secret the iPhone mini sales have been average. All this talk about it going away, or the SE2 becoming the new mini.

Maybe Apple needs to see if there truly is a market for a smaller phone. And realizing many who do, are not power users (yes, some are of course). But they just need one with a modern CPU, no 5G, decent battery with an all-screen 60hz display.

So like the of the SE2, it eschews the bells and whistles, but has a powerful CPU. So the mini drops by $100 and the 11 by $50 (becoming the large mid-tier option)

SE2 - $399
XR - $499 > discontinued
11 - $599 > $549
13 mini - $699 > $599
13 - $799
Click to expand...
www.counterpointresearch.com

Counterpoint

www.counterpointresearch.com www.counterpointresearch.com

Apple doesn't actually care about smaller phone market. I'd argue they are as niche as iPod Touch market. The purpose of the mini is to improve Apple's ASP while still maintaining the tagline "starts at $699."

I doubt Apple would do things differently with the 13 lineup. The mini is there so people wanting a regular iPhone would spend $100 more on the regular model.

However, I do think once the cost drops for Apple, the mini form factor would be pushed down as the next gen SE, putting in single camera and LCD screen. They can advertise it as the same/larger screen than original SE with a more compact form factor.

My guess for this year's lineup.
SE2: $349
XR: $499 for 128GB
11: $599
12 mini: $599 or discontinued
12: $699
13 mini: $699
13: $799

The gap between the SE2 and XR is to assume for a slot for the rumored SE Plus next year, with SE 5G at $399, SE Plus 5G at $499, XR discontinued.
 
skaertus said:
What would make sense is for Apple to sell the iPhone 13 mini for $599 and the regular 13 for $699.

When Apple raised the price of the iPhone 12 to accommodate the iPhone 12 mini, it became too close to the iPhone 12 Pro. The 128 GB iPhone 12 costs $879 and the 128 GB iPhone 12 Pro costs $999, and very little differentiates them both. Apple could have some different price ranges and some real differences between them to justify the coexistence of both products.
Click to expand...
That's intentional. Apple is the king of upselling, upsize your happy meal. Apple wants to nudge people to spend more money than they thought they would, not less. So if more people buy iPhone 12 Pro than the 128Gb iPhone 12, that's great for Apple. Higher ASP is the goal. It's also the whole point of the mini. Apple knows people prefer larger screen, and so they make a mini, thus keeping the marketing of iPhone starts at $699, but people will end up buying the regular 12 for $100 more without realizing that Apple basically has increased iPhone prices yet again.
 
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