Other Could the 13 mini be repositioned as small mid-tier offering?

[DeepIn2U]

Apple iPhone 12 mini review

All new iPhones come with the iOS 14.1 pre-installed, but the iOS 14.2 will be already waiting for you in Settings. It's a minor update over the iOS 14.1...

www.gsmarena.com

Sustained performance on the iPhone 12 mini is significantly worse compared to iPhone 12 and 12 Pro.

It's a simple matter of common sense and physics. You cannot dissipate as much heat using a small chassis.

View attachment 1807145

What are the measurements used in each of these tests … thus far visually without checking the link, I see the Loop 12 test (in dark purple/red) and a strange dip in the stress test of the mini in the third graph yet it recovers. THAT would be interesting to know what cause that.

The dissipation of heat efficiency would be relevant to the amount of heat generated … so I’ll have a look at the link. Although I trust gsmarena’s historical records of mobile phones dates etc, I don’t trust their heavy focus on Android since it’s inception in their reviews.

For comparison

jump to 21:48 to see comparison for video export times and battery drain and heat.

 

[JPack]

That’s exactly what I’ve been saying - you’re only looking at my comments as binary issue The OS is the limitation … show me how much more productive an skilled iOS user is on the Pro vs the mini that has not to do with: battery life comparison, cameras and ProRes.

Straw man lol. I wasn’t focusing on Home Screen, I mentioned it not focused on it. Oh wow the 12/12 Pro only shows 2.1 lines of a website more. My point is the larger screens don‘t show too much more - in apps, text, etc. Sure the Pro Max seems significant yet when you start using apps (forgiving non ProRaw enabled apps or specific camera apps that take advantage of the 3rd camera) - the same work, the same apps the same navigation etc is used. What you actually DO with the phone, again beyond the camera or how long you can use it, doesn’t change.

I still have OLED screen,
I still have access to all the apps in App Store,
I still have access to ALL the Apple iOS features, and services.
Sure you have a few features more on the 12 Pro / 12 Pro Max but ultimately their all the same generation iPhone with the same cpu/gpu combination, same RAM speeds as well.

Going forward I think Apple should properly differentiate the Pro, Pro Max models in terms of how you use them, how the OS adjusts to their features/screen size etc.

PS: Font size can affect how much more you can see on the screen of all models - THAT is where the Pro Max will really shine with smaller font levels.

There were many academic studies performed back in 2010-2015 when phablets were first introduced. Participants reported improvements to tap accuracy and keyboard entry when using a larger display.

If someone has a 2-inch tall video playing Picture in Picture mode, there's a lot more usable space on a 6.1" and 6.7" device. As iOS adds more multitasking features, people want to do more and prefer a larger workspace.

 

[DSTOFEL]

Hmm.

Other than the camera differences (and specific software of ProRaw) and Battery life … please explain how the 12 min cannot do:

Calls,
iMessage,
the same games across the entire iOS ecosystem,
TV shows, movies,
drivers license - limited by digital roll-out acceptance in your province/state/country (not the hardware),
car keys,
live text translation,
screen sharing,
etc.?

I’d like to see this explained where it doesnt’ involve disdain for a smaller model that suits a different demographic.

I have the iPhone 11 but love the idea of the Mini. I don’t use my phone as my primary computing device. I’ve got an iPad Pro, Mac Book Pro, iMac for that. But, the Mini can do all of those things you list…and do them well…in a pinch. So, why didn’t I “upgrade” to the mini? The value’s just not there. The price is just a bit too steep at $779 for a 128GB sim-free version. This combined with poor battery life makes it a tough sell. Plus stories of worse display on the mini vs other 12 models and poor LTE reception?

 

[JPack]

What are the measurements used in each of these tests … thus far visually without checking the link, I see the Loop 12 test (in dark purple/red) and a strange dip in the stress test of the mini in the third graph yet it recovers. THAT would be interesting to know what cause that.

The dissipation of heat efficiency would be relevant to the amount of heat generated … so I’ll have a look at the link. Although I trust gsmarena’s historical records of mobile phones dates etc, I don’t trust their heavy focus on Android since it’s inception in their reviews.

For comparison

jump to 21:48 to see comparison for video export times and battery drain and heat.

GSMArena ran the 3D Mark Wild Life Stress Test.

The iPhone 12 mini dropped to 4 FPS on loop 13. You can't use iPhone 12 mini for any applications that require sustained performance.

 

[boak]

Plus stories of worse display on the mini vs other 12 models and poor LTE reception?

Doesn't the mini have the best display out of the 12 series?

 

[ian87w]

Apple (and others commenting on Apple) just keep missing the mark. (though they finally entered the ballpark with the 12 mini).

There are a LOT of us that want a small phone with ALL of the pro features. We DON'T WANT a f*****g iPhad!!!

(and that people don't recognize how much market confidence was eroded during Covid is a bit laughable) - why sales numbers were down and why those of us that aren't lemmings didn't upgrade to the 12 mini (heh - not saying that people that did are lemmings - just saying the economic environment was different this year, so not everyone entered the queue)

Then there's actually producing a discount phone for emerging markets (ala iPhone 5c).

Two tremendous market opportunities that the leadership at Apple just don't seem to be able to wrap their heads around.

Because - everyone wants a phone that can double as a coffee table. And, you know, we're a niche brand. F**k the people that aren't willing to commit 3 months salary to our product!!!

How are they missing the mark when the iPhone 12 lineup is breaking sales record left and right?

 

[DeepIn2U]

I have the iPhone 11 but love the idea of the Mini. I don’t use my phone as my primary computing device. I’ve got an iPad Pro, Mac Book Pro, iMac for that. But, the Mini can do all of those things you list…and do them well…in a pinch. So, why didn’t I “upgrade” to the mini? The value’s just not there. The price is just a bit too steep at $779 for a 128GB sim-free version. This combined with poor battery life makes it a tough sell. Plus stories of worse display on the mini vs other 12 models and poor LTE reception?

I can agree to that.

from 2018-October 2020, I had an iPhone 8 256GB. When I saw the iPhone even last year about the mini I was all over it, finding out everything I could - screen issues took a while to be reported and not unique to just the mini btw, but I haven’t noticed it. I downgraded to an iPhone SE OG 32GB … and I can tell you I noticed the drop in performance from the 8 immediately but just dealt with It. I planed only to keep it for 2mths and get on contract (switching from PayGo), yet since I’m focused on improving my credit I waited 6.5mths until late march and upgraded full retail Blue iPhone 12 min 256GB so for me …

Value was:
OLED, small device for my small hands/fingers, very fast, FaceID was much faster than the X I tried and returned in 14 days, storage was much faster than the 8 as well. I don’t like big phones as I still carry my smartphone in my font pocket (dress pants, track pants, jeans). I live an active lifestyle so the less weight and smaller device it is I’m good.

PS: I’m a mix between my primary computing device(s): Win10 for work takes up 8-12hrs days M-F, personal between iPad Pro and 12 mini.

 

[MikeAK]

I'd rather the Mini go the opposite route and Apple make it more of a flagship phone. We have enough small cheap phones out there.

 

[DSTOFEL]

Doesn't the mini have the best display out of the 12 series?

Does it? I can’t imagine they would make the mini’s display better than the 12 pro max (for example). I’ve just seen YouTube video’s comparing the displays of the various 12 models and had some bad things to say about the Mini. I know…this is just anecdotal evidence from one source…but just saying these types of reports might be contributors to keeping sales down for the mini. I know they influenced my decision to buy.

 

[DSTOFEL]

I can agree to that.

from 2018-October 2020, I had an iPhone 8 256GB. When I saw the iPhone even last year about the mini I was all over it, finding out everything I could - screen issues took a while to be reported and not unique to just the mini btw, but I haven’t noticed it. I downgraded to an iPhone SE OG 32GB … and I can tell you I noticed the drop in performance from the 8 immediately but just dealt with It. I planed only to keep it for 2mths and get on contract (switching from PayGo), yet since I’m focused on improving my credit I waited 6.5mths until late march and upgraded full retail Blue iPhone 12 min 256GB so for me …

Value was:
OLED, small device for my small hands/fingers, very fast, FaceID was much faster than the X I tried and returned in 14 days, storage was much faster than the 8 as well. I don’t like big phones as I still carry my smartphone in my font pocket (dress pants, track pants, jeans). I live an active lifestyle so the less weight and smaller device it is I’m good.

PS: I’m a mix between my primary computing device(s): Win10 for work takes up 8-12hrs days M-F, personal between iPad Pro and 12 mini.

+1

You and I see the world in the same way. One of the primary pro’s of a phone for me is “pocketabiltiy”. The mini certainly scores a 10 out of 10 in this area! When the magsafe battery pack was announced this week…it got me thinking. Since the primary “con” with the mini is battery life, the combination of the mini and the magsafe battery pack might just be a match made in heaven. You get the best of both worlds. Great pocketability and no battery worries. So now the decision is: Pick up a 12 Mini now….on deep discount or wait for the 13 mini. Either way…adding the magsafe battery pack.

 

[snipr125]

Doesn't the mini have the best display out of the 12 series?

It does in terms of PPI (476 PPI), it actually has the highest PPI of any Apple product in its history. Its only a few PPI higher than the other 12 models, but technically it is the highest. The Pro models do have an extra 100 nits brightness though.

 

[fischersd]

How are they missing the mark when the iPhone 12 lineup is breaking sales record left and right?

And they have 14% market share. (last quarter)

Xiaomi Surpasses Apple to Become Number Two Worldwide Smartphone Vendor in Q2 2021

Apple was the number three worldwide smartphone vendor in the second quarter of 2021, according to smartphone shipment estimates shared today by...

www.macrumors.com

Apple smartphone market share by sales 2021 | Statista

Apple claimed 21.9 percent of the smartphone market by sales to end users in the fourth quarter of 2021, remaining relatively stable compared with the previous quarter..

www.statista.com

If you just consider the US market, they're doing well, but they need to change their lineup for the global market.

US Smartphone Market Share: By Quarter - Counterpoint

- US Smartphone Market Share: By Quarter - Counterpoint

www.counterpointresearch.com

 

[JPack]

And they have 14% market share. (last quarter)

Xiaomi Surpasses Apple to Become Number Two Worldwide Smartphone Vendor in Q2 2021

Apple was the number three worldwide smartphone vendor in the second quarter of 2021, according to smartphone shipment estimates shared today by...

www.macrumors.com

Apple smartphone market share by sales 2021 | Statista

Apple claimed 21.9 percent of the smartphone market by sales to end users in the fourth quarter of 2021, remaining relatively stable compared with the previous quarter..

www.statista.com

If you just consider the US market, they're doing well, but they need to change their lineup for the global market.

US Smartphone Market Share: By Quarter - Counterpoint

- US Smartphone Market Share: By Quarter - Counterpoint

www.counterpointresearch.com

Do you realize Xiaomi's current lineup doesn't have anything smaller than 6.5"?

In fact, most of their devices are either 6.67" or 6.81". It really doesn't support your argument. 😂

If Apple weren't catering to the U.S. market, they wouldn't even offer the iPhone 12 mini.

 

[fischersd]

Do you realize Xiaomi's current lineup doesn't have anything smaller than 6.5"?

In fact, most of their devices are either 6.67" or 6.81". It really doesn't support your argument. 😂

If Apple weren't catering to the U.S. market, they wouldn't even offer the iPhone 12 mini.

It's just the market share numbers. I'm sure a lot of that has to do with margins. Apple has enjoyed keeping their margins at 40%+

It's that niche brand mentality that (while working in the US) doesn't work elsewhere. People simply can't afford any of Apple's devices in much of the world. (that's the iPhone 5c argument)

...keeping the "pro" features to the iPhad just annoys the hell out of those of us that don't want a large phone. Many people held onto their 5s for as long as they could because they didn't want a larger phone. The 12 mini numbers were only light due to the pandemic and the strong Touch ID rumours for the iPhone 13.

I think the 13 mini is going to sell very well. That should keep it in the lineup.

 

[JPack]

It's just the market share numbers. I'm sure a lot of that has to do with margins. Apple has enjoyed keeping their margins at 40%+

It's that niche brand mentality that (while working in the US) doesn't work elsewhere. People simply can't afford any of Apple's devices in much of the world. (that's the iPhone 5c argument)

...keeping the "pro" features to the iPhad just annoys the hell out of those of us that don't want a large phone. Many people held onto their 5s for as long as they could because they didn't want a larger phone. The 12 mini numbers were only light due to the pandemic and the strong Touch ID rumours for the iPhone 13.

I think the 13 mini is going to sell very well. That should keep it in the lineup.

The pandemic already skewed sales towards the iPhone 12 mini due to its cost. With economies recovering, recent sales data points to more consumers buying the iPhone 12 Pro Max. With people out and about, consumers want an iPhone that has great battery life and a large display to work with. Consumer demand for 6.5" iPhone XS Max was overwhelming and that's why Apple increased it to 6.7".

 

[fischersd]

The pandemic already skewed sales towards the iPhone 12 mini due to its cost. With economies recovering, recent sales data points to more consumers buying the iPhone 12 Pro Max. With people out and about, consumers want an iPhone that has great battery life and a large display to work with. Consumer demand for 6.5" iPhone XS Max was overwhelming and that's why Apple increased it to 6.7".

You're making assumptions about the mini's sales. People that lost their jobs or were afraid of losing them didn't buy phones. (well, there's always the millennials)
I really don't see the people able to walk outside as a driver to buy a large phone. How are you drawing that correlation???

Phone sales are up as consumer confidence is up due to the pandemic waning.

 

[JPack]

You're making assumptions about the mini's sales. People that lost their jobs or were afraid of losing them didn't buy phones. (well, there's always the millennials)
I really don't see the people able to walk outside as a driver to buy a large phone. How are you drawing that correlation???

Phone sales are up as consumer confidence is up due to the pandemic waning.

People didn't stop losing or breaking smartphones during the pandemic. Those that did, were more likely to buy less expensive phones like the iPhone SE, 11, or iPhone 12 mini.

You really don't see the correlation between outdoor activity and larger phones? I guess you haven't been paying attention. 😄

Hint: What smartphone size tends to have the best cameras for photos and videos? (Hermits that stay indoors with no social life need not answer.) For people traveling by bus, train, or plane, guess what size of display they prefer for watching Apple TV+? Will 5G subscribers want a phone with a tiny battery like the mini?

 

[fischersd]

People didn't stop losing or breaking smartphones during the pandemic. Those that did, were more likely to buy less expensive phones like the iPhone SE, 11, or iPhone 12 mini.

You really don't see the correlation between outdoor activity and larger phones? I guess you haven't been paying attention. 😄

Hint: What smartphone size tends to have the best cameras for photos and videos? (Hermits that stay indoors with no social life need not answer.) For people traveling by bus, train, or plane, guess what size of display they prefer for watching Apple TV+? Will 5G subscribers want a phone with a tiny battery like the mini?

Well, I guess those that carry a murse don't care how big a phablet they carry around.

Breakage numbers are somewhat line noise (lots of people also get AC+).

Battery is relative - one of the biggest draws is the screen.

 

[JPack]

Well, I guess those that carry a murse don't care how big a phablet they carry around.

Breakage numbers are somewhat line noise (lots of people also get AC+).

Battery is relative - one of the biggest draws is the screen.

The executive summary remains the same. The 6.5" XS outsold the 5.8" XS in 2018. The same thing happened in 2019. The 6.7" outsold every other iPhone in 2020. The 5.4" mini sales are about as good as it gets. Sales certainly won't get better this year.

Some iPhone mini lovers willingly ignore sales data or come up with ridiculous excuses for why sales will be better next year. Or if Apple just changed this one thing, they would hit the jackpot. If mini sales were expected to improve, Apple wouldn't discontinue it in 2022. There is a reason no other smartphone manufacturer makes a 5.4" device.

 

[fischersd]

The executive summary remains the same. The 6.5" XS outsold the 5.8" XS in 2018. The same thing happened in 2019. The 6.7" outsold every other iPhone in 2020. The 5.4" mini sales are about as good as it gets. Sales certainly won't get better this year.

Some iPhone mini lovers willingly ignore sales data or come up with ridiculous excuses for why sales will be better next year. Or if Apple just changed this one thing, they would hit the jackpot. If mini sales were expected to improve, Apple wouldn't discontinue it in 2022. There is a reason no other smartphone manufacturer makes a 5.4" device.

We'll see how the sales of the mini pan out this year.

Love the detractors that join these threads only to slag the products.

 

[snipr125]

We'll see how the sales of the mini pan out this year.

Love the detractors that join these threads only to slag the products.

I know right, said detractor seems to have a personal crusade against the 12 mini, almost like a strange obsession with it to be honest. Maybe deep down they actually really love the 12 mini considering how much attention they seem to give it

 

[TheYayAreaLiving 🎗️]

We'll see how the sales of the mini pan out this year.

Love the detractors that join these threads only to slag the products.

I know right, said detractor seems to have a personal crusade against the 12 mini, almost like a strange obsession with it to be honest. Maybe deep down they actually really love the 12 mini considering how much attention they seem to give it

I just hope Apple doesn't eliminate the iPhone mini. We have many people that love the mini.

 

[Alpha Centauri]

First .. Apple did not ‘Raise the price of the 12 to accommodate the mini”
The price was set right from the beginning.

Also too much focus on price is for the USA as as well as teh 5G models. What our op doesn’t realize is the 12 mini and upcoming 13 mini already serves the target market the op has discussed. Outside of the USA the 12 mini doesn’t have 5G (at least in Canada).

That's not entirely true. The entire iPhone 12 line (including Mini) offers 5G. It's only the US Market that has an additional millimetre 5G connectivity.

On a side note, I do feel the Mini is/was overpriced from the get go. Add, that the much cheaper SE was released way prior to the iPhone 12 range, then a month later (in Europe at least) finally along came the Mini. Prior to this there was no indication of pricing to compare them, due to COVID also potential buyers of the new size just couldn't feel how it holds in hand or how the screen works for them. But at that stage it was all over and many had already committed to the SE and other 12 Models. I do wonder how the Mini sales would have been IF SE, 12 and Mini (perhaps $100 cheaper or base memory higher) all been offered at the same time.

 

[ian87w]

That's not entirely true. The entire iPhone 12 line (including Mini) offers 5G. It's only the US Market that has an additional millimetre 5G connectivity.

On a side note, I do feel the Mini is/was overpriced from the get go. Add, that the much cheaper SE was released way prior to the iPhone 12 range, then a month later (in Europe at least) finally along came the Mini. Prior to this there was no indication of pricing to compare them, due to COVID also potential buyers of the new size just couldn't feel how it holds in hand or how the screen works for them. But at that stage it was all over and many had already committed to the SE and other 12 Models. I do wonder how the Mini sales would have been IF SE, 12 and Mini (perhaps $100 cheaper or base memory higher) all been offered at the same time.

I'm not sure about this reasoning. If the mini was overpriced, how do you explain people willing to actually spend more money for the regular 12 and 12 Pro Max? Makes no sense.

Besides, I thought people has been saying they wanted a flagship mini phone no matter the price was. Apple delivered. Yet now you are saying it's overpriced? Do you really want a flagship mini, or just a cheap iPhone?

 

[Alpha Centauri]

I'm not sure about this reasoning. If the mini was overpriced, how do you explain people willing to actually spend more money for the regular 12 and 12 Pro Max? Makes no sense.

Besides, I thought people has been saying they wanted a flagship mini phone no matter the price was. Apple delivered. Yet now you are saying it's overpriced? Do you really want a flagship mini, or just a cheap iPhone?

Overpriced compared to the 12..certainly. The Mini, with the smaller screen, is also in that line-up a niche product. Peoples willingness to spend money on the regular 12 and 12ProMax does in no way negate the pricing argument, it has more to do with demand for a larger screen size.

It don't know what people have said, it's little consequence to me and simply my personal take on it. With the very late release date of the Mini, I'm just hypothesising what contributed to sales not being stellar.