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Could Todays Mac Pro Announcement Be a Sign of Whats to Come for the MacBook Pro
- Thread starter Mr. Dee
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- imac mac mini mac pro macbook pro
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True, but the graphics issues were addressed early with software updates, and the battery problems were pretty much limited to the 13" with touch bar. The others actually get improved battery life for light to moderate use, but the general internet hysteria lost track of that.
According to Apple there are. But since you ignore contrary facts, it isn't surprising you're unaware.
Edit: I should correct myself to say that Apple led John Gruber to believe there are hard data to show the new MBP is a "hit," but it could be Gruber was misled.
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You are right, the combinations of complaints all piled up and slightly blew out of proportion. But I was more commenting on the design choices that led to those specific issues which I didn't elaborate.
KB: if they didn't make the case as thin as it is, they could have easily put in the 2015 KB and virtually no one would complain about the extra 1mm or so thickness. Even if the next MBP2017 has its butterfly switch ver 3.0 it wouldn't change the fact that the one on this 2016 is sub-par, concerning key stroke not registering or simply key failures.
GPU: they are already shipping somewhat mid-range mobile GPU but still struggled to ship it glitchless. If the chassis remains the same then the next update will still be limited by the same class of GPU available with similar thermo envelope, which will again lag behind the curve as performance goes.
Battery: I incline to "believe" the Bloomberg story not on face value, but by deduction: if Apple wasn't going to stuff in batteries with higher density / efficiency, they probably wouldn't have balls to make the MBP further thinner as it did. The MacBook line up has had a reputation of really decent battery life compared to other laptops in the industry for years, I don't think Apple would risk that for no reason. So yes I do hope they will have that supposed safety issue sorted out by the 2017 update, if coupled with Kabylake processors it actually mean these MBPs will have exceptional run time since the new chip has higher mobile efficiency.
GPU will be moot as long as USB C is interface for power as it's limited to 100W max. For those needing macOS the best route is an eGPU as it's highly unlikely that Apple are going to offer an MBP with powerful dGPU. One of Apple's errors was not having peripherals to work with the 2016 MBP at the point of release; USB C dock, eGPU etc. My next notebook will undoubtedly have USB C/TB-3, my next direct purchase will be an eGPU.
Q-6
That happened just some days after launch, and before the barrage of criticism the first online reviews created and was digested by the public.
We do not have the disaggregated data of how many rMBPs were sold.
In particular it would be interesting to know:
- how many 13" and how many 15";
- how many of them were returned after the extended return window (people had more than 3 weeks to try it), and why;
- how many of them were 2015 models.
I doubt Apple will evere release those data.
So the success or the faliure of the 2016 rMBP has not been proven. All we have is a non corroborated source that says that they sold a huge quantity of 2015 ones.
Nor that it is a wonderful success, unless they release disaggregated sales data.
Nonsense...A 20% thicker (like 2015 rMBP, not bigger) 13" quad core would sell like hot cakes...
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Agree. Bring back Magsafe, one of the thing people has been asking since day 1.
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I do think they had a spike in orders, but I also believe that spike included a large ratio of the older MBPs
I hope Apple does address some of the short comings and this falls release will maybe be closer to what I need in terms of features and price.
WHo says I'm invested so much?
And when I say successful, I mean that the Mac business is growing again.
But if you're asking my personal feeling on the matter, it's successful because it's a great computer. Again - that's my personal view. Either way - my "investment" is more a reaction to all the negativity than anything else.
Unfortunately I don't see it happening Apple's hubris will prevent then from accepting they have made a "wrong turn" well maybe 3-5 years later
Sadly Apple has pushed the MBP to a more consumer based product in the hope of selling greater numbers. Personally I can only speak for myself and my peers, with the rustle being a resounding no sale. At very best we will just get yet another adaptor/dongle as yet another additional necessary purchase.If those who own and use the new MBP are good with it I am genuinely happy for them, equally a good number of us have been left out in the cold. That said the situation has also opened new avenues, one which Apple may well rue in time...
Over 20 years with the Mac, I have never seen Apple to be so "penny pinching" lacking vision or direction, so sick & tired of Tim Cook's Apple
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Unfortunately I don't see it happening Apple's hubris will prevent then from accepting they have made a "wrong turn" well maybe 3-5 years later
They were. Last week changed everything.
The keyboard is one of the few choices Apple made that really is probably primarily about thinness. But most people like it, judging from polling and comments here and elsewhere. Here's the most recent poll about it:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/keyboard-poll-owners-only-please.2039905/
Many consider it an improvement, and relatively few find the opposite. Key failures are of course bad regardless of thickness and key travel. It remains to be seen if this design will hold up in that regard, or may need to be upgraded as you suggest.
That's always been the case with the MBP, compared to Windows gaming machines. The 460 that is the top MBP dGPU now was faster in broad GPU benchmarks than what was offered in the closest competition for the MBP when it came out, though. That changed when the Dell XPS was updated a few months later. None of this has to do much with thickness, as you couldn't get the GPU in the 2017 XPS 9560 in the older MBP chassis either, not only because of size but because it isn't compatible with the goals for the MBP in regard to heat, noise, battery life, and now also being able to charge from any port. The AMD GPUs also have the advantage of offering far better external monitor support, able to drive about twice as many UHD pixels.
The glitches are software issues, even now. There's no lack of power for smooth scrolling and so on.
Right, there's already room in the present chassis for a larger battery.
When Apple stops talking and actually delivers, then and only then will I be inclined to look once again. Apple may be picking up consumers for the Mac, however more & more serious users are abandoning the platform as Apple is simply not to be trusted as provider of professorial grade hardware and software, that Apple will regret in time, as we were once Apple's strongest advocates...
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Wow, that's pure delusion, based on simply ignoring facts. Again, why would people want a 13" screen in a chassis almost as big and as heavy as a 15" that already has a quad core? You've simply refused to face that question. Thus myth lives on.
All based on your continued insistence on ignoring all contrary facts. Again, objectively the new MBPs are more powerful and improved in numerous ways. In the real world, there are pros talking here and elsewhere continually about how well the new MBPs meet their professional needs.
This too is based 100% on simply ignoring all contrary facts and views. You continue to confuse your desires with the only legitimate vision and direction. While Apple thrives, and other pros continue to thrive using their products.Over 20 years with the Mac, I have never seen Apple to be so "penny pinching" lacking vision or direction, so sick & tired of Tim Cook's Apple
Which is a good thing, and I'm glad things are stablized because I really don't want Cook having any excuse to kill of the Mac line.
I agree, Apple's main focus has been very much on the consumer and that's been leaving professional users behind.
The "many considering it an improvement" bit is with the condition if his given unit is failure-free. This is the troubling part, that Apple would ship this new design in this state on a professional machine, where some intended audience are writers or coders who really rely on typing accuracy. I think such length to thinness is quite justified on the 12" MB line which inherited the MacBook Air target where probability is a priority, but I struggle to see it in the MBP line especially the 15" models.
While I agree that MBP or even back track to the PowerBook line had "always been the case" with using mid-range mobile GPUs. But there is one difference where Apple used to update their models annually if not more frequently, so the particular choice of chip would only lag for a time until the newer model that replaced it. This MBP update cycle has slowed down a lot lately, the GPU is subject to longer periods of being "underpowered". As a result, even aiming for thinness has always been part of the MBP feature set, for this particular generation it's not helping its under-performance not just the GPU but also lack of DDR4 (thus the 32GB argument). But anyway the above posters had already noted, since the MBP is done with MagSafe, with USB-C the TDP constraint will always be there regardless of the chassis / thermo envelope.
I think many people wish Apple would make a "thicker", perhaps 17" variant MBP that is a true workstation class laptop, not replacing the current 15" but as an additional model like they used to. But since the 15" is already the best they could get, therefore the wishful thinkings or even bashing is landed on it. This is somewhat similar to the nMP fiasco, people want the maximum tier Mac to be configurable or at least ship with the highest possible set of components, since it is a professional machine afterall.
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Exactly, this also reflects my own observations...
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More silliness from someone who can't distinguish subjective opinion from reality. Clue: That ranking is based directly on likes and dislikes of the kind there is wide disagreement about. And Laptop Magazine isn't the best source for reviews. Check sources that rely more on more objective factors and the new MBP remains at the top.
Again, the facts don't support this view, but some people believe it because they confuse their own desires with those of professionals in general.
In the short term, I think they will keep exactly the same hardware and rely on processor improvements for marginal gains in battery life and speed. My expectation is that they will be able to squeak out maybe an extra 0.5-1hr of battery life at best.
For the probable late-2017 upgrade I would be very surprised if they a) introduced a 32gb ram option (because there is no low-power option available, and this would reduce battery life too much) or b) drastically change the chassis to introduce a bigger battery (this would sacrifice portability too much, which I don't think they are willing to go backward on). I think the touch bar will stay at least for another year, I would be (pleasantly) surprised if they admit defeat on this concept sooner than that. A marginal improvement in the video card. Modularity for the laptops will remain a pipe dream, that ship has sailed.
For the probable late-2017 upgrade I would be very surprised if they a) introduced a 32gb ram option (because there is no low-power option available, and this would reduce battery life too much) or b) drastically change the chassis to introduce a bigger battery (this would sacrifice portability too much, which I don't think they are willing to go backward on). I think the touch bar will stay at least for another year, I would be (pleasantly) surprised if they admit defeat on this concept sooner than that. A marginal improvement in the video card. Modularity for the laptops will remain a pipe dream, that ship has sailed.
Are you going to provide ANY rationale as to why a regular business person would want a hotter running cpu when productivity apps don't frequently require it? I could provide a lot of reasons why smallest and lightest is more convenient for a prosumer. I think you continue to ignore the majority of MBP purchasers. We are not "power users" that run into cpu bottlenecks. Contrary to your belief, we would actually welcome EVEN smaller and lighter than the current 3lbs but still need on demand power for occasional calculations, etc. I suppose what I'm saying is nonsense because you have declared it so.
You, and people who think like you, who should have bought a rMB instead of a rMBP because they do not need performances and value portability more, are the root cause that lead Apple to believe that they had to do both their laptop lines thinner and thinner instead of differenciate them: one thin and portable the other one thicker and with top of the line GPU and CPU...
So they alienated a big chunk of potential professional customers who looked elsewere...
So they alienated a big chunk of potential professional customers who looked elsewere...
I don't think I follow what you're trying to say. Yes, the large majority who like the new keyboard consider in that judgment whether it works. That's part of my point. It's failure-free for the large majority. The vast majority of complaints aren't about failures of keys to register correctly, but about key travel or clicky sounds. It's hard to tell if there have been more keys than usual that fail to register correctly; there are always some complaints about that with laptop keyboards. If there are more problems with that than usual, it may be a reasonable and hopefully temporary price for improvements as long as it's not too common.
As explained in the preceding couple pages of comments and in what I just said, the choice of dGPU isn't constrained primarily or even in large part by thinness. As I and others have pointed out, even the 2015 chassis wouldn't make a difference. More decisive factors are listed and discussed several times here by several posters. There could be a separate port for charging because 100 W isn't enough, but that would only be needed for a machine that's going to eat up the battery and run hot and loud each time the dGPU is engaged, as the machines with 1060 and 1070 GPUs do. That's not consistent with the general design goals of the MBP.
The same is true in regard to RAM and thinness. There's already room for DDR4 RAM. But as Apple has explained, that would cost battery life because it's desktop RAM, not low-powered RAM designed for laptops. My own estimates based on the best data I could find are that over a period ten hours use, about the battery life of the MBP, using 32 GB DDR4 would use 5-84 watt-hours more than 16 GB LPDDR3, depending on load. Considering the largest permitted battery is under 100 watt-hours, that's a lot of battery drain. It's not about thinness.
Yes, many do wish for a thicker machine, but apart from those upset about key travel, they're misinformed. And most of them maintain that state by ignoring all facts that don't fit the myth about thinness being to blame for all or most ills. And yes, they do lash out at the existing machine that isn't as they wish it to be.
That said, I'd love to see a return of the 17", I still have two that are running and waited till now to upgrade waiting for another. But they apparently weren't popular enough to be sustainable as an option. Maybe with better screen technology that can change, but I'm doubtful.
You do realize that, even if the chart is true, it has nothing to do with quality and everything with an emotional response? Just like EA was voted the worst company in the world, worse the oil spillers and weapon sellers, because of ME3 ending?
I mean, you don't honestly believe people are more satisfied with their Lenovos, right? Right?
Sheesh. Enjoy your Dells and Lenovos in the REAL WORLD (Jesus....), what can I say.
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Just keep preserving the delusion by ignoring contrary facts. It's already been fully explained to you by several people why what you say makes no sense, should you ever decide to join us in reality.
No point. I pulled out of these ridiculous discussions the last time (because I was, apparently, a) an Apple employee, b) fanatic or c) Phil Schiller) - I guess I'll do it again.
Sure guys. Sure. That thick, USB-A port MacBook Pro is just around the corner. Either that or Apple is doomed. No doubt.