[CPU only] Apple M1/2(Max/Ultra) (TSMC 5nm) vs AMD Zen 4 (TSMC 5nm) - Technical Analysis

[Icelus]

Yeah, more benchmarking BS. They're comparing a 12-core processor (AMD Ryzen AI 9 HX 370) to an 8-core (the M3 in the Air), using MT CPU workloads. E.g., for GB6, the AMD is 2,879/14,888, while the 8-core M3 is 3,082/12,087 (all scores taken from tomshardware.com for consistency), so of course they're going to report the MC scores, and conveniently omit the difference in SC performance.

And what kind of apps are people most commonly using on thin&lights? That's, right SC.

Even worse when ignoring the four M3's efficiency cores (comparing a 4P/4E CPU (M3) to a 12C/24T CPU).

 

[leman]

Even worse when ignoring the four M3's efficiency cores (comparing a 4P/4E CPU (M3) to a 12C/24T CPU).

The Ryzen can be technically seen as an 4P+8E design or at least 4 high-power and 8 mid-power cores.

 

[Icelus]

The Ryzen can be technically seen as an 4P+8E design or at least 4 high-power and 8 mid-power cores.

OK, but AMD's specs don't mention this: https://www.amd.com/en/products/processors/laptop/ryzen/300-series/amd-ryzen-ai-9-hx-370.html

Edit: it is mentioned as "4x Zen 5 , 8x Zen 5c".

 

[leman]

OK, but AMD's specs don't mention this: https://www.amd.com/en/products/processors/laptop/ryzen/300-series/amd-ryzen-ai-9-hx-370.html

Edit: it is mentioned as "4x Zen 5 , 8x Zen 5c".

Yes, 5c is AMDs lower-power, lower-area core. It’s a core optimized for performance/area and performance/watt.

 

[throAU]

Whoops, wrong thread.

 

[name99]

You missed my point. The chart isn't BS because they compared an 8-core and 12-core processor. It's BS because they showed the kinds of tasks on which the AMD is faster (MC), but conveniently omitted those on which the M3 is faster (SC)—and it's particularly BS b/c the overwhelming majority of apps used on thin&lights are SC rather than MC.

And it's not just that they showed MC rather than SC. They additionally concealed the fact that the scores were MC by labelling them as, e.g., "Geekbench - CPU Score" rather than "Geekbench - MC CPU Score".

Now you might argue that mfrs. do that all the time—they show the scores on which their devices do best. If it were just a matter of cherry-picking certain apps, that's expected. But to omit an entire class of tasks, when that's the most common class used on that category of device, and to conceal that, is an entirely different level of marketing BS.

Another way to say this is to note the lack of appropriate web benchmarks...
Where web benchmarks (and related nonsense like Electron apps) are, as you say, what many people will be running on this sort of device.

 

[theorist9]

Another way to say this is to note the lack of appropriate web benchmarks...
Where web benchmarks (and related nonsense like Electron apps) are, as you say, what many people will be running on this sort of device.

I was thinking of desktop apps, rather than web-based apps. But I suppose if you had a web-based app where a lot of the computation was done on the client side, then that might be interesting to benchmark as well.

 

[jdb8167]

I was thinking of desktop apps, rather than web-based apps. But I suppose if you had a web-based app where a lot of the computation was done on the client side, then that might be interesting to benchmark as well.

Well theoretically a well designed web-based app should be using worker threads. But a well designed web-based app is kind of an oxymoron.

 

[theorist9]

Well theoretically a well designed web-based app should be using worker threads. But a well designed web-based app is kind of an oxymoron.

What does "worker threads" mean?

 

[Icelus]

What does "worker threads" mean?

Probably Web Workers.

Using Web Workers - Web APIs | MDN

Web Workers are a simple means for web content to run scripts in background threads. The worker thread can perform tasks without interfering with the user interface. In addition, they can make network requests using the fetch() or XMLHttpRequest APIs. Once created, a worker can send messages to...

developer.mozilla.org

 

[Homy]

Doesn't the tech press use the same video games to make historical comparisons?

AMD is using games with built-in benchmark tool for convenience but it doesn't make it accurate on Mac. They should use Lies of P, Death Stranding or Resident Evil but accuracy is often not a priority in marketing material.

 

[jdb8167]

Probably Web Workers.

Using Web Workers - Web APIs | MDN

Web Workers are a simple means for web content to run scripts in background threads. The worker thread can perform tasks without interfering with the user interface. In addition, they can make network requests using the fetch() or XMLHttpRequest APIs. Once created, a worker can send messages to...

developer.mozilla.org

Exactly.