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Crazy to buy a 2013?
- Thread starter thefredelement
- Start date
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Nobody, at least not I, am "defendig Apple to the death"
I just do my best to be fair.
At the time when some people argued the nMP was greatly overpriced, others cooly analyzed the costs of building by oneself a computer with the same parts or, if not available, as close as possible.
The added amount was found out to be actually higher than what Apple charged.
Besides the resulting construction was much larger, not better looking and, of course, one had to invest a lot of time, a lot of work and a lot of trial and error, which should be somehow translated in money as well.
What every owner of a nMP can testify is that it is
1) perfectly silent even when pushed hard,
2) it never gets hot, no matter how much work is asked from it,
two qualities not always found in workstations of comparative power.
That it could and should be better in several aspects is no doubt true, but applies to every product made by humans.
I agree that the situation after 2 years is presently not identical but the nMP is and will remain built and sold in small quantities.
When it comes to earning results, Apple makes its money with iPhones.
Workstations are hardly worth manufacturing if only money should be relevant.
However at the same time that the world sales of computers decrease, Apple can still keep a small but relevant increase in their computer sales.
Therefore either one comes to the conclusion that present computer buyers all over the world are entirely irrational and stupid, or that Apple still has the talent to remain appealing in spite of building relatively expensive products.
I would rather take the second possibility than the first one, but everybody is free to have his own opinion.
That I do not "defend Apple to death" applies in my personal experience to the fact, that I found (unfortunately!) too many problems when trying to use Apple's newest OSX.
I still do not understand what is wrong, is it my system or is the present developing condition of El Capitan (or both...),
I hope one day to find the answer.
Ed
I just do my best to be fair.
At the time when some people argued the nMP was greatly overpriced, others cooly analyzed the costs of building by oneself a computer with the same parts or, if not available, as close as possible.
The added amount was found out to be actually higher than what Apple charged.
Besides the resulting construction was much larger, not better looking and, of course, one had to invest a lot of time, a lot of work and a lot of trial and error, which should be somehow translated in money as well.
What every owner of a nMP can testify is that it is
1) perfectly silent even when pushed hard,
2) it never gets hot, no matter how much work is asked from it,
two qualities not always found in workstations of comparative power.
That it could and should be better in several aspects is no doubt true, but applies to every product made by humans.
I agree that the situation after 2 years is presently not identical but the nMP is and will remain built and sold in small quantities.
When it comes to earning results, Apple makes its money with iPhones.
Workstations are hardly worth manufacturing if only money should be relevant.
However at the same time that the world sales of computers decrease, Apple can still keep a small but relevant increase in their computer sales.
Therefore either one comes to the conclusion that present computer buyers all over the world are entirely irrational and stupid, or that Apple still has the talent to remain appealing in spite of building relatively expensive products.
I would rather take the second possibility than the first one, but everybody is free to have his own opinion.
That I do not "defend Apple to death" applies in my personal experience to the fact, that I found (unfortunately!) too many problems when trying to use Apple's newest OSX.
I still do not understand what is wrong, is it my system or is the present developing condition of El Capitan (or both...),
I hope one day to find the answer.
Ed
I'm using it with El Cap, it upgraded directly from Mavericks when I first got it. I did not do a restore. I haven't had one issue in any sense.
Funnily enough, I'm involve with this Mac, for my workflow, it's making me more productive and it doesn't sound like a small plane when I load up a game - which is nice. I'm using it with the Cinema4k 31" LG, it's a great combo.
I can't believe the speed while compiling projects in Xcode and also how much of a joy Sketch is now to use (especially with bitmaps). I only mention this because I understand what you're saying about the bias towards the nMP. I think it's real because I used to have it.
. I thought I'd upgrade my 2009 forever. (I had 2x 2.93Ghz quad, 48gb ram, 512gb SSD PCIe raid 0 and an ATI 7970 w/3GB from MVC). My next steps were to put in a blade SSD and eventually upgrade to dual 3.46Ghz 6-core Xeons.
What stopped me in my tracks was the value of that Mac and the fact that it was or is running out of support. I use my Mac to make money and if it died my backup plan was to a) try to fix it myself or b) take it to Apple and use my Mac Book in the meantime. Having that safety net go away (or soon to) was a big deal to me.
Having gotten the discount that I did, I decided to actually return it and ordered a more powerful refurb (512gb SSD, w/D700s/6core), I'll be out of pocket around $3,500 so I'm pretty excited and really happy. My next steps are to get the 8-core 3.4Ghz Xeon and 64GB of RAM. I'm not going to wait around so long to do the CPU upgrade, probably before April of 2016. The RAM will be done in a week or so. That means in a few months I'll have put in just under 6k and have one beastly Mac. (8core @ 3.4Ghz, 64GB RAM, 512GB SSD, D700s) Obviously depending on what is introduced I'll stick with it or sell it and re-up but in the meantime and value wise I could not be happier.
For what I do for work I'm locked into the Apple ecosystem. I could run Xcode on a hack (and I dd before I bought my first MP) but I'm not looking for trouble. I needed a new Mac and the nMP is kicking butt and it looks and sounds great doing it. I've read and seen the 'is the nMP a fail' and the 2016 thread(s) and I've got to say my only regret in any of this is not just buying it when it came out. I've been stuck with this value minded mentality when it came to my MP and in reality I need to just use the best available tools for the job and that's clearly, by leaps and bounds, the nMP on El Cap.
Funnily enough, I'm involve with this Mac, for my workflow, it's making me more productive and it doesn't sound like a small plane when I load up a game - which is nice. I'm using it with the Cinema4k 31" LG, it's a great combo.
I can't believe the speed while compiling projects in Xcode and also how much of a joy Sketch is now to use (especially with bitmaps). I only mention this because I understand what you're saying about the bias towards the nMP. I think it's real because I used to have it.
. I thought I'd upgrade my 2009 forever. (I had 2x 2.93Ghz quad, 48gb ram, 512gb SSD PCIe raid 0 and an ATI 7970 w/3GB from MVC). My next steps were to put in a blade SSD and eventually upgrade to dual 3.46Ghz 6-core Xeons. What stopped me in my tracks was the value of that Mac and the fact that it was or is running out of support. I use my Mac to make money and if it died my backup plan was to a) try to fix it myself or b) take it to Apple and use my Mac Book in the meantime. Having that safety net go away (or soon to) was a big deal to me.
Having gotten the discount that I did, I decided to actually return it and ordered a more powerful refurb (512gb SSD, w/D700s/6core), I'll be out of pocket around $3,500 so I'm pretty excited and really happy. My next steps are to get the 8-core 3.4Ghz Xeon and 64GB of RAM. I'm not going to wait around so long to do the CPU upgrade, probably before April of 2016. The RAM will be done in a week or so. That means in a few months I'll have put in just under 6k and have one beastly Mac. (8core @ 3.4Ghz, 64GB RAM, 512GB SSD, D700s) Obviously depending on what is introduced I'll stick with it or sell it and re-up but in the meantime and value wise I could not be happier.
For what I do for work I'm locked into the Apple ecosystem. I could run Xcode on a hack (and I dd before I bought my first MP) but I'm not looking for trouble. I needed a new Mac and the nMP is kicking butt and it looks and sounds great doing it. I've read and seen the 'is the nMP a fail' and the 2016 thread(s) and I've got to say my only regret in any of this is not just buying it when it came out. I've been stuck with this value minded mentality when it came to my MP and in reality I need to just use the best available tools for the job and that's clearly, by leaps and bounds, the nMP on El Cap.
You sounds like Apple marketing literature. As for the comparative power...have you used competing products of comparative power? Plenty of quiet systems which are not only of comparative power but greater power.
Yes, my liquid cooled Z-series and Precisions laugh at his comment.
One thing that I learned when working on Precisions is to really check that they're turned off. I once removed a graphics card from a running Precision because it was so quiet I didn't realize that it was on. (No damage done, by the way.)
These guys really should use some more systems before making some of the comments they do. The Z440, in its base configuration, matches the nMP in sound level. The Z640 is only 2db greater than the nMP. Each offers considerably more options than the nMP when it comes to expansion / cooling.
nMP:
https://support.apple.com/kb/SP697?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US
Z440:
http://www8.hp.com/h20195/v2/getpdf.aspx/c04400038.pdf?ver=1.0
Z640:
http://www8.hp.com/h20195/v2/GetPDF.aspx/c04400040.pdf
I'm seriously considering upgrading from my nMP (6C,32GB,D700) to a 5,1 with 2x6Core 3,46ghz, 48GB of Ram and A GTX 980 non Ti. Considering Adobe products I use mainly to get stuff done use CUDA still fairly good and immensely utilise all 12 Cores, this should have been my way to go anyway.
Well I guess if only I wanted to run a hackintosh or invest into hardware that will soon not be supported I could have gone a different route but I needed the best tool for my job and got it.
The 2nd hand market is devaluing the cMP drastically, the nMP resale value is just under refurb. This isn't going to change. The e5 v3 has been out for awhile but the v2 hasn't been pulled and is still available. I expect the this to change as the v4 propagates into other workstations including eventually, hopefully a new MP. At that point the cMP in any form will be further devalued and the 2013 will drop accordingly.
The next model MP will most likely obliterate any cMP or 2013 MP in performance but the 2013 will be much more valuable.
If any MP is the best tool for you, you should get it and not look back. I'm a pro and need what helps me now. I don't need a giant box that I need to spend more money than its worth to make it compete with what I can just go and buy and keep a warranty in tact until 2018.
The 2nd hand market is devaluing the cMP drastically, the nMP resale value is just under refurb. This isn't going to change. The e5 v3 has been out for awhile but the v2 hasn't been pulled and is still available. I expect the this to change as the v4 propagates into other workstations including eventually, hopefully a new MP. At that point the cMP in any form will be further devalued and the 2013 will drop accordingly.
The next model MP will most likely obliterate any cMP or 2013 MP in performance but the 2013 will be much more valuable.
If any MP is the best tool for you, you should get it and not look back. I'm a pro and need what helps me now. I don't need a giant box that I need to spend more money than its worth to make it compete with what I can just go and buy and keep a warranty in tact until 2018.
Implying the nMp could compete with a full fledged cMP with updated GPUs, dual 6Cores and 64GB+ of RAM.
You should do you.
I spend most of my time in Xcode and with a new Xeon my performance will be faster and use less power than a cMP. If I need more GPUs I could use a thunderbolt enclosure. If I wanted to gamble with out of warranty parts and tinker I'd of kept my 4,1 but I need my Mac for business not for geek bench.
Just for the record I do not fault you for your purchase. If the nMP meets your needs so be it.
Thunderbolt is a poor choice for GPU connectivity. But if it's all you've got it's all you've got.
I agree and at best case Apple releases a new MP in the same form factor and sells a upgrade GPU kit, if not its worth more than what I had to sell so I'll buy a new one if I need to. I may not get there for some time though. You nailed it - my day to day is drastically improved.
If I was a video pro I probably would have two different cMPs with as much spare stuff as I could afford (esp. Logic boards and power supplies) but I'm not and I doubt Xcode compilation will start using CUDA... I'd also invest in 3rd party insurance and warranty.
*********
As already said in the past, the day you will finda a Mac good enough for you either Christ will return to redeem the world, or Mohamed will come down in his white horse, or the Messiah (משיח) will finally arrive, depending on you being christian, muslim or jewish.
As for unreligious people I do not know what will happen but it certainly will be some incredibly great event...
A great day for the human kind (and for Apple)!
Ed
Did you actually have something to address what he said? Or was an ad hom all you got?*********
As already said in the past, the day you will finda a Mac good enough for you either Christ will return to redeem the world, or Mohamed will come down in his white horse, or the Messiah (משיח) will finally arrive, depending on you being christian, muslim or jewish.
As for unreligious people I do not know what will happen but it certainly will be some incredibly great event...
A great day for the human kind (and for Apple)!
Ed
*****
I never said that every no-Apple product is bad and, by the way, I do not own shares of Apple (unfortunately).
Of course I have not tested all the computers in the world before buying my nMP.
I liked the Mac OSX and liked the nMP.
It was hard for me to find the needed money but I have no regrets.
No reports of how incredibly and astonishly wonderful other computers running other OS are will change the pleasure I have with my Mac and the mac OS.
If others enjoy other hardware with other OS, I am very happy for them.
If they believe that my decision was wrong, let them think so.
Freedom of thought is a great human achievement
Ed
And that's really what matters. I ordered the nMP right when it came out and I've been happy I did. I have the 6-core with stock GPUs, but have 32 gb RAM. I work a lot with FCPX and Logic X, and I've become spoiled by the machine's speed. I teach in a lab with 2008 Mac Pros, and they seem so sluggish in comparison.
Yes, it was a big chunk of change to buy, but it considerably sped up my workflow. And at the end of the day, it's been worth every penny. And I love how little room it takes up.
How does this address what I wrote?*****
I never said that every no-Apple product is bad and, by the way, I do not own shares of Apple (unfortunately).
Of course I have not tested all the computers in the world before buying my nMP.
I liked the Mac OSX and liked the nMP.
It was hard for me to find the needed money but I have no regrets.
No reports of how incredibly and astonishly wonderful other computers running other OS are will change the pleasure I have with my Mac and the mac OS.
If others enjoy other hardware with other OS, I am very happy for them.
If they believe that my decision was wrong, let them think so.
Freedom of thought is a great human achievement
Ed
This systems speed is nothing special when compared to other systems. It may be fast compared to the cMP but that was because Apple neglected the cMP for so long.
In all fairness it's also because the apps used are optimized for the D series FirePros and are also OS X only.
None of which negates what I said. The FirePros are newer technology (compared to what Apple was offering in the cMP). Is anyone surprised when newer technology is faster than older technology?
I mean it's impossible to compare to any other work station or work flow using like software because previous MPs don't support the optimizations made for D series GPUs. I think it may be different comparing say Premier or some cross platform audio app (is Sonar one? I haven't used that stuff in years outside of Logic). So I would say it is uniquely faster when compared to other workstations because they can't even run it.
I think that's why wrapping our heads around what exactly a MP is, when compared to previous versions or competing workstations, is difficult and everyone kind of has their own idea. (It sucks compared to a cMP with 4 Nvidia cards for video editing with Premier but it's one of the best platforms for editing with Final Cut. It's insane for vector computation but needs an expensive thunderbolt or remote storage for a real amount of storage, etc.) Its sold by Apple and does Apple things great so for the people who need that it's hard to compare the speed of another workstation which by default can't do what they want to do. Not trying to make a semantic point only but I think that needs to be a valid consideration.
I think these benchmarks are more comparable as we're discussing tailored performance for apps optimized for the 2013 MP: http://barefeats.com/tube05.html
The 2013 MP is the clear winner using FCPX and it doesn't need a dual PSU to do so.