D90, 24fps HD digital cinema

[ksz]

Underwhelming.

- Not Full HD
- No autofocus in movie mode
- 5 minutes recording limit for HD. 20 minutes for low res (which I don't care about)
- Apparently, no mic input
- Motion JPEG + SDHC (instead of Compact Flash) is a poor combination
- 12-bit A/D conversion
- No AF fine tuning

It's a good start because image quality is good and different lens types (such as fisheye) provide an added degree of creativity.

Motion JPEG is not a good choice for high-definition, but it is easier to edit on PCs than AVCHD, which requires lots of memory and fast processors.

SDHC capacities are pretty high, as are their speeds, so I don't necessarily see this as much of a handicap.

Manual focus is also okay for short clips, though AF would have been nice. Maybe this can be remedied by a future software upgrade.

When digicams first incorporated movie modes they too were limited to anywhere from 30 seconds to 2 minutes. Only after several years did they manage to become unlimited (i.e., limited by memory card capacity).

 

[cube]

I think the 5 minute cap comes from the FAT32 4GB file size limitation.

When are they going to get rid of that stupid FAT32?

 

[Phrasikleia]

Poor Canon. Nikon is just burying them. Well, that's not entirely true. The coolpix looks like a disaster.

Eh. It's a game of leapfrog.

 

[nutmac]

I think the 5 minute cap comes from the FAT32 4GB file size limitation.

When are they going to get rid of that stupid FAT32?

That's a good guess. FAT32, unfortunately, remains the most universal file system around. D90 should at least allow continuous video recording, even if that means creating multiple .avi files that need to be joined later. Better yet, D90 should offer an option to record as H.264 codec.

In any case, D90 marks a beginning of SLR video recording and better solutions will undoubtedly come.

 

[FF_productions]

Awesome..just awesome timing. I was about to purchase D-80...D-90 it is!! Screw my budget!

 

[Holgapics]

This could be just the ticket for the paparazzi. Being able to shoot in both still and movie clips could mean multiple sales to both mediums (as if we need more celebrity crap in our lives)!

 

[ksz]

I think the 5 minute cap comes from the FAT32 4GB file size limitation.

When are they going to get rid of that stupid FAT32?

While I don't know the D90's data rate for high-def movies, I did find the following excerpt from a review of the Panasonic TZ5 at DPReview. The TZ5 also has a 1280x720 movie mode, but records at 30fps for a maximum of 15 minutes.

The movies are recorded in QuickTime MJPEG (.mov) format and at the highest quality settings work out at a whopping 5.1 MB/sec. The maximum length of a movie recording is 15min if you don't run out of space on your memory card before that. You'll fit around 10 minutes of footage onto a 4GB card.

Because the D90 records at 24fps and assuming it uses the highest quality settings for a data rate of 5.1 MB/sec, it should be able to fit 10 minutes onto a 4GB card.

What is also implied in the excerpt is that 15 minutes of video will take up more than 4GB and hence the TZ5 is not limited to 4GB file sizes.

 

[Abstract]

Honestly, as a D300 owner, I think if this were out when I bought my D300 I would have saved my moolah and bought the D90.

Me too, and I don't even care about the movie mode.

I would have been OK with a D80, but I wanted several things that the D80 couldn't offer me. I got the D300 because it was released, I didn't have a DSLR because I broke my old one, and I was going to Japan for over 3 weeks around last Christmas. I thought the D90 would be released in January/February, but I was wrong. The D300 offers me a few wonderful things that the D90 wouldn't give me, but these are very small things and not worth the difference in price. The major benefits of the D300 over the D90 are things I never really take advantage of, anyway. It's wasted power.

THe only thing that's clear right now is that my next DSLR will probably be a D90s or something.....unless I get a m4/3rds camera for most of my general shooting.

 

[chrisc310]

D90, 24fps HD digital cinema

The Nikon D90 movie demo came to 1,262 KB for about 12.62 seconds so it's running at close to 100KB/sec. It is in the 1.7778:1 (16:9) mode that only the 1280 x 720 aspect ratio choice of sizes uses. The smaller sizes are both about 1.5:1 (3:2). On my 15.4" screen set at 1280 x 800 it comes out smaller than 1280 x 720 so they've reduced something to get there. My math skills aren't totally up to speed, but these numbers I give are what the file size and aspect ratio give. 100 KB/sec for the demo.

I hope this helps and someone can add anything more they find.

chris

Here's the link to see the demo: http://nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Product/Digital-SLR/25446/D90.html

 

[gnd]

The Nikon D90 movie demo came to 1,262 KB for about 12.62 seconds so it's running at close to 100KB/sec. It is in the 1.7778:1 (16:9) mode that only the 1280 x 720 aspect ratio choice of sizes uses. The smaller sizes are both about 1.5:1 (3:2). On my 15.4" screen set at 1280 x 800 it comes out smaller than 1280 x 720 so they've reduced something to get there. My math skills aren't totally up to speed, but these numbers I give are what the file size and aspect ratio give. 100 KB/sec for the demo.

I hope this helps and someone can add anything more they find.

chris

Here's the link to see the demo: http://nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Product/Digital-SLR/25446/D90.html

The file size of the sample movies means absolutely nothing. As they put it on this page:
Note: The videos shown here were taken using D-Movie function, then converted to Flash Video format for ease of handling. Image quality varies from the original.

 

[djchristie]

Hi all,

have read a load of D90 stuff off the web over the past few days, and can't remember where I read this so no link I'm afraid!! The impression I got was that the video is limited to 5 mins due to some European tax on camcorders, and by limiting it to 5 mins it stays below the qualifying threshold that defines it as a camcorder. Could be complete garbage, but interesting nonetheless!! Doesn't explain why the non EU models would still be limited though.

 

[djchristie]

Decided I could be bothered to search after all, so here is the quote and the link:

Nikon hopes the inclusion of video, which has been limited so not to be classed as a camcorder and therefore subject to a hefty European tax penalty will appeal to those used to using video features more commonly found on compact cameras

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/17202/18226/nikon-d90-DSLR-digital-camera.phtml

However, I've also read an article that says Nikon wouldn't comment on why it's limited, and another that speculates it may be due to image degradation caused by sensor overheating over a period of time.


What I don't get is if it is a tax thing, why can you do 5 mins high def but 20mins standard? Surely the definition of a camcorder wouldn't be as specific as to limit time by definition? I'd of though time would be the factor, in which case you would have thought it would be a 20 minute cap no matter what definition.

No doubt somebody more knowledgeable than me will be able to comment!!

 

[SRSound]

Decided I could be bothered to search after all, so here is the quote and the link:

Nikon hopes the inclusion of video, which has been limited so not to be classed as a camcorder and therefore subject to a hefty European tax penalty will appeal to those used to using video features more commonly found on compact cameras

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/17202/18226/nikon-d90-DSLR-digital-camera.phtml

However, I've also read an article that says Nikon wouldn't comment on why it's limited, and another that speculates it may be due to image degradation caused by sensor overheating over a period of time.


What I don't get is if it is a tax thing, why can you do 5 mins high def but 20mins standard? Surely the definition of a camcorder wouldn't be as specific as to limit time by definition? I'd of though time would be the factor, in which case you would have thought it would be a 20 minute cap no matter what definition.

No doubt somebody more knowledgeable than me will be able to comment!!

I believe, as stated above, it's simply due to the file-size limit of the FAT32 file system. The camera can only handle writing file sizes up to 4GB, which equates to 5min of HD video or 20min of standard def.

 

[filmamigo]

The only thing that matters to real filmmakers is image quality. I can't wait to see a full-resolution sample clip. This thing could be HUGE!

To address some points made so far:

- Not Full HD
720p is high def, and MANY professional production cameras use this format.

- No autofocus in movie mode
? No professional uses any form of auto focus. Part of the appeal of having interchangeable lenses on a video/HD camera is that they usually come with nice, external focus, manual rings. Just like those lovely Nikkors!

- 5 minutes recording limit for HD. 20 minutes for low res (which I don't care about)

Not a problem for single-camera film style shooting. Depending on the reel size and format, film loads are either <5 minutes or about 11 minutes. Nothing new here, just get two cards and start downloading between shots. That's what a camera assistant is for.

This is also not weird in the high-def world. Ask anybody shooting Panasonic P2 or RED.

- Apparently, no mic input
Who cares, movies cameras are meant to be used dual-system (i.e. record your audio to a seperate recorder i.e. hard drive, mini disc, or DAT.) You need seperate control of audio with a portable mixer and boom mic anyway. Why tether anything? The camera's built-in audio is good enough to help sync up tracks later.

- Motion JPEG + SDHC (instead of Compact Flash) is a poor combination

SDHC = cheap and easy to find
Motion JPEG = an industry standard interframe format that is scalable and has no impact on final image quality. At low data rates, it looks poor. At high data rates, it looks brilliant. Just like any other format.

- 12-bit A/D conversion
? how is this a problem? Believe me, most people are used to NTSC video. 12-bit A/D, like in most DSLRs, looks great.

- No AF fine tuning
? again, AF doesn't matter to pros. If you are worried about having to focus (not that hard by the way,) then set the lens to f/11 and the focus to hyperfocal distance. Then everything from 5 feet to infinity should be reasonably focused.

 

[djchristie]

I believe, as stated above, it's simply due to the file-size limit of the FAT32 file system. The camera can only handle writing file sizes up to 4GB, which equates to 5min of HD video or 20min of standard def.

Sounds eminently plausible, more so than any other argument I've heard. I assume this could be altered in a future firmware upgrade for the camera? Is FAT32 standard for all the big camera companies?

 

[filmamigo]

Ugh

Ugh, I just read the preview for this camera at DPReview.

They say movie mode is auto-exposure only.

That just killed it for making films. Too bad, they could have had a cult camera for indie filmmakers. Now it's definitely just competing with your cellphone camera.

 

[cube]

The only thing that matters to real filmmakers is image quality. I can't wait to see a full-resolution sample clip. This thing could be HUGE!

To address some points made so far:

- Not Full HD
720p is high def, and MANY professional production cameras use this format.

- No autofocus in movie mode
? No professional uses any form of auto focus. Part of the appeal of having interchangeable lenses on a video/HD camera is that they usually come with nice, external focus, manual rings. Just like those lovely Nikkors!

- 5 minutes recording limit for HD. 20 minutes for low res (which I don't care about)

Not a problem for single-camera film style shooting. Depending on the reel size and format, film loads are either <5 minutes or about 11 minutes. Nothing new here, just get two cards and start downloading between shots. That's what a camera assistant is for.

This is also not weird in the high-def world. Ask anybody shooting Panasonic P2 or RED.

- Apparently, no mic input
Who cares, movies cameras are meant to be used dual-system (i.e. record your audio to a seperate recorder i.e. hard drive, mini disc, or DAT.) You need seperate control of audio with a portable mixer and boom mic anyway. Why tether anything? The camera's built-in audio is good enough to help sync up tracks later.

- Motion JPEG + SDHC (instead of Compact Flash) is a poor combination

SDHC = cheap and easy to find
Motion JPEG = an industry standard interframe format that is scalable and has no impact on final image quality. At low data rates, it looks poor. At high data rates, it looks brilliant. Just like any other format.

- 12-bit A/D conversion
? how is this a problem? Believe me, most people are used to NTSC video. 12-bit A/D, like in most DSLRs, looks great.

- No AF fine tuning
? again, AF doesn't matter to pros. If you are worried about having to focus (not that hard by the way,) then set the lens to f/11 and the focus to hyperfocal distance. Then everything from 5 feet to infinity should be reasonably focused.

This is a consumer camera, not a professional one. I don't care if the pros have a team of people to handle 1 (big) camera. I want something PRACTICAL.

Even more important for me is the practicality of the successor to the D700. I don't care if it's marketed as pro.

 

[DISCOMUNICATION]

This could be just the ticket for the paparazzi. Being able to shoot in both still and movie clips could mean multiple sales to both mediums (as if we need more celebrity crap in our lives)!

But the paparazzi prefer Canon.

Just like the cops prefer Nikon...

...on CSI

 

[Westside guy]

I am reasonably sure I've read that real CSI's use Fuji cameras because of the greater dynamic range sensor.

That's a Nikon mount, anyway...

 

[ipodtoucher]

It releases from CC Sunday... who's pre-ordered it? I really want this to replace my D50... but i just don't have funds

 

[ArtandStructure]

This is a consumer camera...

$1300 is a consumer camera?

Jesse Widener
www.artandstructure.com

Edit: Typo...D90 with kit lens is $1300 not $1400

 

[ipodtoucher]

$1400 is a consumer camera?

Jesse Widener
www.artandstructure.com

I think he should have said a "Prosumer" that's how I feel it is... Its in the mid range

D40 - 500

D90 - 1000

D3 - 4500

$1400 is also the kit price, the body only is $999

 

[mac 2005]

[ Please delete ]

 

[cube]

I am reasonably sure I've read that real CSI's use Fuji cameras because of the greater dynamic range sensor.

That's a Nikon mount, anyway...

The reason is UVIR, not visible light.

 

[macenforcer]

Just picked up a D90 this morning from Wolf camera. WOW! Don't be fooled, the VIDEO is AWESOME! Out of the box is shoots standard resolution. I was not impressed although it looks good then I found out I was not in 720p and then shot again and was blown away. Its way better than my $1300 sony HD camcorder.

The kit lens is great also. Its nice and small and gets decent reach. I have a D40, D80 and D300 and now I can sell them all.

The screen is fabulous. Same screen as on the D300.

Shooting video is easy. Just press the live view button then press "OK" it starts recording. Press "OK" again and it stops.

I think we have a new winner here. Along with the D700 Nikon put out a power punch of a lineup.

Got questions let me know.

PS: The AVI video files play perfectly on my Mac Pro in Quicktime. NO ISSUES AT ALL.