Damning article regarding the treatment of Apple employees

[jonblatho]

Anytime I get frustrated with a customer service rep of any company, I always tell them I know it’s not their fault.

I consider that, but there have also been some isolated instances with customer support personnel, including at Apple, where it was their fault. If they're bound by some company policy, I get that there's nothing they can do and move on. If there's incompetence involved — like a recent Apple store experience where they refused to do a replacement which had been authorized via chat the night before even after I provided the corresponding case number, and they made two outright false statements regarding options to resolve my issue — I won't simply accept that.

(After that experience I called Apple and had a replacement shipped to me the next week. Deeply disappointing that phone service is better than in-person.)

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Perhaps someone who actually works for Apple can weigh in on this article. One of my kids work at an Apple retail store and Apple has been very good to them so far.

Not sure what to think. The article was horrifying...suicide is always tragic.

Just the fact that the author likely had to go through a few tens of current and former Apple employees before they found these 16 folks that would support the claim the author was trying to make tells you a lot about how serious to take these claims. You can bet that any employee that said “Nah, everything’s fine.” were just left out of their count!

 

[mpavilion]

Just the fact that the author likely had to go through a few tens of current and former Apple employees before they found these 16 folks that would support the claim the author was trying to make tells you a lot about how serious to take these claims. You can bet that any employee that said “Nah, everything’s fine.” were just left out of their count!

Why would you take the employees’ claims less seriously just because not all have had the same experience?

 

[Abazigal]

Why would you take the employees’ claims less seriously just because not all have had the same experience?

Context. It’s not clear from the article whether this is an isolated incident or a widespread practice.

Can you find me a company where all the employees are perfectly happy working there and nobody has experienced any stress or problems whatsoever?

Take 1000 employees. 995 are happy working there. 5 aren’t for various reasons (some of which may be due to their own attitude). You interview the 5, and make it sound like their negative working experiences are somehow representative of the working environment company as a whole.

You are also assuming the disgruntled employees are telling the whole truth and not exaggerating or playing up certain events. Or maybe they themselves are the problem.

I am sure there are some people legitimately having issues or struggling with working at Apple. It may just mean that.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Why would you take the employees’ claims less seriously just because not all have had the same experience?

I take these 16 current and former employees claims less seriously because it’s obvious the writer was trying to find as many folks as they could find to support their claims… and ONLY found 16. Then, understanding that there’s two sides to every story, I’d have to know more about what kind of employees they were. If they always showed up late or always hung up on customers or called out at the last minute 15 days out of the month, then I’d guarantee they’d have a worse time at work than those that were showing up on time, being courteous even to cantankerous customers, and working all their shifts as scheduled. How were they at their last place of employment, do they ALWAYS have these same experiences? If so, then the common denominator in all those experiences… would be the employee.

 

[huge_apple_fangirl]

The sad fact is that retail jobs anywhere are not great. Apple is probably better than most, but it's still damning to read something like this. Apple (and everyone else) needs to do better. That being said, the author of this article seems to have an agenda- she has written a lot of very negative stuff about Apple's internal affairs that often seem to come from a few disgruntled employees. This article makes it seem like Apple is uniquely bad here, when this is unfortunately the environment of most retailers, and blames Apple for employees' unrealistic expectations (that they could go from retail to corporate, that HR is not there just to protect the company).

Still, Apple may have only themselves to blame here. They project an image of a socially conscious company, and hold themselves in a very high esteem. The public does too. That means they can and should be held to higher standards.

 

[mpavilion]

I take these 16 current and former employees claims less seriously because it’s obvious the writer was trying to find as many folks as they could find to support their claims… and ONLY found 16. Then, understanding that there’s two sides to every story, I’d have to know more about what kind of employees they were. If they always showed up late or always hung up on customers or called out at the last minute 15 days out of the month, then I’d guarantee they’d have a worse time at work than those that were showing up on time, being courteous even to cantankerous customers, and working all their shifts as scheduled. How were they at their last place of employment, do they ALWAYS have these same experiences? If so, then the common denominator in all those experiences… would be the employee.

If you need to learn 16 people’s life stories before taking their claims at face value, I’d say you’re biased against them.

To put it another way: if your argument is, “the writer only found 16 people, therefore the number must really be zero, and these people are lying or exaggerating – because Apple is perfect, and no employees could’ve gone through what these folks claim (or if they did, it’s their fault),” then I’d say you’re a cultist.

 

[MauiPa]

So retail employees don't like to be in Retail. I don't blame them at all. But read the article, Apple pays better than amazon, and they make up fake commercials about $15 / hour making employees go all gaga, so paying more must be better, right? OK there are definitely crappy managers in apple's system, and everywhere else, I never worked for Apple, but sure had some crappy managers. Haters, don't misconstrue my words, I would never defend mistreatment of employees, but some of the "claims" are a bit much, the others need to be corrected in all companies.

I once worked in a factory, where if you didn't punch in by 5 minutes before the hour, they docked you 15 minutes of pay, imagine they expected me to work that 15 minutes though (jokes on them, I got even). So what is that they call the golden rule? That is the standard we should all live by.

But this article, except for a specific manager who should be prosecuted and fired, the rest is pretty standard work metrics. But like in most organizations, too tight of a reign leads to sometimes poor results.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

If you need to learn 16 people’s life stories before taking their claims at face value, I’d say you’re biased against them.

To put it another way: if your argument is, “the writer only found 16 people, therefore the number must really be zero, and these people are lying or exaggerating – because Apple is perfect, and no employees could’ve gone through what these folks claim (or if they did, it’s their fault),” then I’d say you’re a cultist.

No, “The writer only found 16 people therefore the number is 16. No one can determine anything of value from such a small sample set. Furthermore, there are no reasonable suggestions anyone can make on what SHOULD be done from only 16 people, many of which may no longer be at Apple due to reasons that were not made clear.”

It would be like some random user finding 4 other users (of the thousands of users on this forum) that will agree with them that you’ve been completely unreasonable in your posts and petitioning to MR for your removal. Would you want MR to take the next course of action and remove your account OR would you rather they examine your history to find that there was no such untoward activity? And, if they did nothing, does that meant that “MR doesn’t care about the concerns of 5 of their users” or “5 MR users were feeling especially batty one day?”

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I never worked for Apple, but sure had some crappy managers. Haters, don't misconstrue my words, I would never defend mistreatment of employees, but some of the "claims" are a bit much, the others need to be corrected in all companies.

I knew someone that worked for Apple that had a really bad manager with a bad attitude, would treat other employees markedly better, provide opportunities but not to them, yadda yadda. I was going through a returns/exchange process so I was in the store a few days in a row when they were supposed to be working, but they weren’t there. Turns out when I asked them, the truth was they had called out two of the days, and showed up an hour late on the third. “I called ahead and let my manager know, though, so it was ok” is REALLY what they thought. This was apparently a fairly regular occurrence.

They are now a former Apple employee. If this writer had spoken to them, they’d have 17 stories

 

[fgengineer]

I read the article and the average retail employee makes $21/hr. I was like that is a lot for retail.

Such a high paying retail job is a double edged sword. Apple can demand more from employees because it pays more than other retail jobs. Also, motivation to move to another job can be low because you may have to take a pay cut for an entry level position at another kind of job that would have better future prospects.

Other than that, it sounded like other retail jobs as has been said by everyone else.

 

[44267547]

I read the article and the average retail employee makes $21/hr. I was like that is a lot for retail.

Such a high paying retail job is a double edged sword. Apple can demand more from employees because it pays more than other retail jobs.

How could Apple ‘demand more’ just because they pay more for a retail employee? They only have certain jobs, duties and responsibilities, I don’t really see how they could demand more, other than the employee is productive with said responsibilities and punctual.

And at $21 an hour I don’t think is the ‘norm’ across the nation, (at least not in my area it’s not), More like $17, maybe $18 an hour. At that rate, Starbucks I believe pays barista’s near $18 an hour now.

Retail is is pretty much the same across the board, you just have to pick and choose which employers promote opportunity growth and optimism.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

Apple is still the best corporation on the face of the earth to do your best work.

It doesn't matter where you are in the food change, your contributions are helping to change the world.

It should not all be about money for these people. To do your best work you need to balance pay with passion. If you're not cut out for this, go find another job.

Yep, Apple is infallible and holier than the Pope. Renegades be stoned! Apple be praised!

 

[dumastudetto]

Yep, Apple is infallible and holier than the Pope. Renegades be stoned! Apple be praised!

You completely missed my point. I didn't say or imply Apple is infallible.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

You completely missed my point. I didn't say or imply Apple is infallible.

And you completely missed mine. I was being sarcastic drizzled with a drop of exaggeration.

 

[dumastudetto]

And you completely missed mine. I was being sarcastic drizzled with a drop of exageration.

What does exageration mean?

 

[MrHonda]

The article is very accurate. It really needs more attention.

 

[ian87w]

All the bad things the article was describing can be applied to any retail establishment’s frontline workers. The article even stated Apple’s hourly wage for those was actually on the better one.

It sucks, but you got to start from somewhere. The idea is get that first line job spot, continue to enrich your own skills, and then move to a higher spot. You have to be proactive. You can no longer expect a raise by simply being passive and expecting to be promoted by seniority. That doesn’t work anymore. Get a starting point, learn new stuff, get certifications etc on the side, and move out after two or three years to a better paying job. Sticking around for 5 years or more and expecting a continual raise naturally won’t get you anywhere.

There’s no point in being loyal to a large publicly traded employer. That mindset works on family owned businesses of the olden days, but not in stockholder focused publicly traded companies. Remember the purpose of any publicly traded companies, including Apple, is to maximize shareholders value.

Use these companies instead to better yourself. Most big companies like Apple probably offer various venues for self enrichment, learning courses, certifications, etc, many that are probably too pricey for an individual to get. Take advantage of those, and move out after a few years. After a few years out, then see if you can go back in on a higher paying job. Rinse and repeat.

Be smart. Having a victim mindset of moaning and groaning will only put you into depression.

 

[Fowl]

Depressing and not in the least surprising. I wish Apple employees would unionize.

 

[PC_tech]

sucks put those employees need to understand we need them apple products. They gotta suck it up

You don’t “need” them, you want them 🙄

 

[dumastudetto]

Depressing and not in the least surprising. I wish Apple employees would unionize.

Most Apple employees are incredibly happy to be contributing to changing the world. Apple is still ranked pretty much the best corporation to work for on earth.

Do some employees sometimes wish they were paid more and had better conditions? Sure. But who doesn't sometimes feel like that?

 

[PC_tech]

Most Apple employees are incredibly happy to be contributing to changing the world. Apple is still ranked pretty much the best corporation to work for on earth.

Apparently not 🙄

 

[dumastudetto]

Apparently not 🙄

The article shows there are at least some who feel differently, and they are welcome to seek alternative employment of course.

 

[ericwn]

Most Apple employees are incredibly happy to be contributing to changing the world.

Could you please provide a source for this?

 

[dumastudetto]

Could you please provide a source for this?

6th here: http://ratedly.com/careerbliss-announces-its-50-happiest-companies-for-2020/
3rd here: https://www.careerbliss.com/blog/the-careerbliss-happiest-companies-during-covid-19/