Dealing with Poor Text Rendering on Mac Mini M4 (2560x1440)

[flygbuss]

They have a lot of apps... Which one are you referring to?
TIA

TinkerTool.
Sorry, I clicked 'home' before copying the url, obviously that wasn’t helpful..

 

[zterm]

TinkerTool.
Sorry, I clicked 'home' before copying the url, obviously that wasn’t helpful..

Thanks!

 

[Boyd01]

What 27-inch or 32-inch matte display monitors suitable for graphic design and 3D work would you recommend? Please keep in mind that I’m nearly 60 years old, and my vision isn’t what it used to be.

I've been using a 32 inch BenQ PD3200Q 2560x1440 screen for over 4 years with my 2018 Mini. Have been really happy with this screen ever since day one. Now, this is an Intel Mini with the integrated UHD 630 graphics chip and I'm still running Monterey, so that might be completely different from your experience. However, people were still complaining about sub-pixel-whatever and unreadable text on non-retina screens with the Mini back when I got mine.

You're still a kid... I'm 75 years old, my eyesight has always been terrible and I haven't gotten new glasses for 20 years! 🤣 But I'm still really happy with this screen. When I've seen these complaints in the past, they have mostly been about 27 and 24 inch screens. I chose the BenQ 32" screen for the pixel density of around 94 dpi. I had also been using the ancient Apple 23" Cinema Dispaly that I originally bought for my PowerMac G5 until I got the 2018 Mini. It was 100dpi, so I wanted to stick with a native resolution close to that.

There's another issues specific to the 2018 Mini, the UHD 630 is not good at scaled resolutions which causes overheating and throttling, so I wanted a big screen with readable text at its native resolution. The Apple Silicon Mini's don't have these issues with scaled resolutions, so I might have been inclined to get a 32' 4k display and scale it to 2560 if I had one of those.

 

[teohyc]

I just received my Mac Mini M4, and when I connected it via HDMI to my old Dell U2713H (2560 x 1440), I was extremely disappointed. Coming from Mojave, I hadn’t considered that the lack of text smoothing, and the somewhat unnatural sharpening would affect me so much.

Two questions for those who have suffered or are suffering from this problem:

1. It seems that the option to enable text smoothing via the terminal no longer works. Is there any software solution that can effectively address this issue? I am trying Better Display but could not find a satisfying setting.
2. What 27-inch or 32-inch matte display monitors suitable for graphic design and 3D work would you recommend? Please keep in mind that I’m nearly 60 years old, and my vision isn’t what it used to be.

Thanks in advance.

You need higher resolution.
27-inch 1440P will give you chunky pixels, pixelation

 

[MooshMoo]

This evening, once again, I tested HDMI versus DisplayPort using a 4K/8K USB/DP converter, and the difference was striking. The screen size is identical, but fonts through HDMI look pixelated—almost like they’ve been scaled down and then up again, with some sharpening added. It seems to be an issue with how HDMI handles font and thin lines rendering.

Interestingly, when I took screen captures, they looked identical. My HDMI cable is 1 meter long and 4K-compatible, so that shouldn’t be the problem. I also snapped some photos with my phone, and the difference can be seen. I’ll upload those later.

If anyone can test an M4 setup with HDMI versus USB/TB on a 1440p monitor, I’m pretty sure you’ll see the same difference. Let me know if you try it!

Can confirm. HDMI is basically unusable for me, but USB-DP cable looks good, and with BetterDisplay active, it looks good enough that I’m going to be able to hold off on upgrading my my monitor for a while.

 

[turbineseaplane]

It's very frustrating how little effort Apple puts into support for this situation

Windows is amazing at it ... macOS not so much 🫤

 

[matbard]

Hi all,

I'm going to switch from my faithful 2014 iMac 27" 4K to a BTO M4 Pro Mac Mini (maxed to te upper limits) that is sitting unopened on the sofa because I haven't pulled the plug on a new monitor yet.

All these discussions about lack of subpixel soothing scared me! 😅

I'm waiting for the rumoured, improved FPS Apple Studio Display next year, meanwhile I'm intrigued about the new OLED offers in the gaming world. I'm not a fanatic gamer, but I enjoyed space sim games on my Mac since I bought the iMac. I'm intrigued about the new LG UltraGear 32GS95UE, a dual mode display that is 4K@240 hz or FHD@480 hz. It has DP 1.4 and HDMI 2.1.

What issues I'm going to if I pair this display with the Mac Mini? I'm going to use BetterDisplay, so I have to learn how to set it properly...

 

[zterm]

Can confirm. HDMI is basically unusable for me, but USB-DP cable looks good, and with BetterDisplay active, it looks good enough that I’m going to be able to hold off on upgrading my my monitor for a while.

Thanks for confirming
After switching to DisplayPort, I honestly feel like I can even do without BetterDisplay and without a new monitor.
I wonder how many people are complaining about the subpixel issue because they use HDMI.

 

[MrGimper]

I have an Acer 27" 4K/60 screen hooked up to my M4 non-pro mini via the in-built HDMI. I have the resolution set to 2048x1152 Hi-DPI via Better Display and it's really really sharp. I've just changed it to 2240x1260 and 2368x1132 to test and it's still really sharp.

This is while also having a 34" 3440x1440 screen connected via USB-C that's set to 2580x1080.

 

[macintologist]

I have a Dell P2720 1440p display that I use with a Mac Mini M1. I ordered an M4 Pro Mini so I will report back.

 

[zterm]

As promised...

IMG_9812 >> USB to Mini DisplayPort
IMG_9814 >> HDMI

Please note that with HDMI not only is the pixelation more noticeable, but in the light areas with black typography there is also a very noticeable white outline.

I double checked that the settings for both types of connection are exactly the same.

 

[hgfjhbvytjdnb]

As promised...

IMG_9812 >> USB to Mini DisplayPort
IMG_9814 >> HDMI

Please note that with HDMI not only is the pixelation more noticeable, but in the light areas with black typography there is also a very noticeable white outline.

I double checked that the settings for both types of connection are exactly the same.

Interesting that it makes this much difference, it must be connecting at a different refresh rate or colour profile - it makes no sense otherwise.

That said, ever since Apple decided to focus solely on "retina" experience (so roughly 10/11 years ago), any screen that isn't high PPI and using either native or 2x scaling, will look like isht. Which was especially amusing since their own MBA 13 was never upgraded to retina and looked like cr*p after 2015ish OSX release. Compare that with Windows or Linux, where the display and scaling is handled differently and even fairly low PPI screens can look fine.

 

[matbard]

so, basically: with a non Retina display (110 ppi) can I still achieve a good result?

 

[hgfjhbvytjdnb]

so, basically: with a non Retina display (110 ppi) can I still achieve a good result?

not really

 

[flygbuss]

so, basically: with a non Retina display (110 ppi) can I still achieve a good result?

Sure you can. I work in audio and most studios I work in don't care about HiDPI or Retina. Most of the time it's 1080p or 1440p. I can still see and read everything.
But as already pointed out, sometimes the Mac's HDMI is worse.
On a side note, when it came out, I set up the first M1 Mac mini with two identical 4K Samsung displays, one via DisplayPort and one via HDMI and the picture wasn't similar either.

Edit: Short clarification in most professional sound studios, the computer is in a separate room. Mostly the displays are extended via CAT, so setting up everything with 4k or higher extenders isn't worth it. Also, it's more about audio then the display experience.

 

[hgfjhbvytjdnb]

Sure you can. I work in audio and most studios I work in don't care about HighDPI or Retina. Most of the time it's 1080p or 1440p. I can still see and read everything.
But as already pointed out, sometimes the Mac's HDMI is worse.
On a side note, when it came out, I set up the first M1 Mac mini with two identical 4K Samsung displays, one via DisplayPort and one via HDMI and the picture wasn't similar either.

Errr buddy you're trying to mislead the fella. I have 2 same 4k screens one connected via HDMI one via USB C and they both look EXACTLY same in terms of picture quality.
As for low PPI screens, if you know how proper antialiasing looks like on a screen (e.g. you came from Windows world) and you have a fairly low PPI screen (e.g. 1080p or 1440p) you will absolutely hate the jagged way macOS displays objects, especially fonts. The only scenario you wouldn't notice it is if you either, don't know any better - because you haven't seen mac OS on a high PPI screen (lowest high PPI screen you can get is a 4k, 5k would be a better proposition but it is as rare as hens teeth) or you don't care.

 

[flygbuss]

Errr buddy you're trying to mislead the fella. I have 2 same 4k screens one connected via HDMI one via USB C and they both look EXACTLY same in terms of picture quality.
As for low PPI screens, if you know how proper antialiasing looks like on a screen (e.g. you came from Windows world) and you have a fairly low PPI screen (e.g. 1080p or 1440p) you will absolutely hate the jagged way macOS displays objects, especially fonts. The only scenario you wouldn't notice it is if you either, don't know any better - because you haven't seen mac OS on a high PPI screen (lowest high PPI screen you can get is a 4k, 5k would be a better proposition but it is as rare as hens teeth) or you don't care.

Well I guess your 'evidence' is as anecdotal as mine.
I don't try to mislead nobody, just saying that you actually can use screens with lower resolution.
I bought my first Retina MBP in 2013 and obviously HiDPI looks better. Just trying to be a bit reasonable with all the 'No, impossible, you can't do that' posts. But maybe you're right and I just don't care as much. Just have the feeling it's really a consumer perspective, because you all got used to the high res screens.

 

[Subarctic5216]

I have had great results with BetterDisplay. 1st a Late 2015 iMac "27 w/mini display port. Now a M4 Mac mini Pro w/Thunderbolt. Both using the DisplayPort input on a Gigabyte M32U. Text is sharp and clear at multiple resolutions.
With the Pro version of BetterDisplay HiDPi can be utilized.

 

[blufrog]

On my M1, 4K looked identical on HDMI and USB-C / DisplayPort, as it should. I haven’t tried with my M4.


What thread? Rather than deprecating HDMI, they just upgraded it in M4.

The 5K2K thread in this sub.

Seems there is some confusion, which is why I went to an Apple store to test this. The issue is down the quality of the display as to how it looks at NATIVE resolution.

The Apple display has better smoothing all-around, but it is hard to tell how much is the panel vs. processing.

Scaled resolutions were equally available on all devices at resolutions below native. For every scaled resolution there was a "low resolution" version, which ran that resolution using the PANEL scaling (ugly).

 

[zterm]

I have 2 same 4k screens one connected via HDMI one via USB C and they both look EXACTLY same in terms of picture quality.

Good for you! It’s likely because your 4K screens support HDMI 2.1 or another recent revision capable of delivering excellent performance. However, with non-retina displays using older HDMI circuitry, the difference in quality compared to DisplayPort can be quite noticeable.

Since switching to DisplayPort, I now enjoy a perfectly acceptable image. There’s ample information available highlighting DisplayPort’s superiority for computer displays, particularly with earlier iterations of both standards.

A key distinction lies in how they handle data: DisplayPort transmits data in packets, much like Ethernet, whereas HDMI sends data continuously. While the difference may be negligible for moving images, for still images —such as small fonts, menus, or UI elements— older HDMI connections often lack the clarity and stability provided by DisplayPort, which was specifically designed to support high-resolution computer monitors and demanding display applications.

 

[hgfjhbvytjdnb]

Good for you! It’s likely because your 4K screens support HDMI 2.1 or another recent revision capable of delivering excellent performance. However, with non-retina displays using older HDMI circuitry, the difference in quality compared to DisplayPort can be quite noticeable.

Nah, they are both HDMI 2.0 fairly old-ish 4k LG screens. Just to give you an idea how old they are, before I started using the HDMI + USB C I used to use display port cables connected to a 2015 intel MBP. Picture quality is exactly same regardless of which connection I go through.

 

[hgfjhbvytjdnb]

Well I guess your 'evidence' is as anecdotal as mine.
I don't try to mislead nobody, just saying that you actually can use screens with lower resolution.
I bought my first Retina MBP in 2013 and obviously HiDPI looks better. Just trying to be a bit reasonable with all the 'No, impossible, you can't do that' posts. But maybe you're right and I just don't care as much. Just have the feeling it's really a consumer perspective, because you all got used to the high res screens.

I didn't say he "can't" connect a low PPI screen to a modern Mac. What I'm saying is that modern Mac is not designed to display good image quality on low PPI screens. And it's not even that "modern", we're talking since roughly about 10 years ago when Apple switched to focusing solely on high PPI screens. I remember well how my 13inch MBA got turned into a steaming pile of manoure with screen quality gradually getting worse and worse starting from Mavericks. I had other MBA's available to me as well and even in 2017/2018 - when they were still selling them brand new - the picture quality was TERRIBLE.
I bought one of the first 38 superwides years ago and it looked beautiful with Windows, but when I connected it to my Mac, regardless of what option I tried, the low PPI just made it look like a joke.
When you read feedback on the internet, some people don't seem to be bothered whilst others hate it. I reckon those who have a reference point to e.g. Windows or a high PPI Mac will hate it. Those who don't know any better might not hate it but then I'd expect them to wonder, why people praise Mac's when they look like jagged mess.

 

[zterm]

Nah, they are both HDMI 2.0 fairly old-ish 4k LG screens. Just to give you an idea how old they are, before I started using the HDMI + USB C I used to use display port cables connected to a 2015 intel MBP. Picture quality is exactly same regardless of which connection I go through.

Very well. You have a couple of 4K monitors with HDMI 2.0, a more recent version with better features than HDMI 1.4, which is what my 12-year-old monitor uses.

No one is saying that your observations aren’t valid; it's just that your experience isn’t necessarily replicable in all scenarios. My monitor, delivers a much sharper image through DisplayPort.

Keep in mind that both HDMI 1.4 and 2.0 can handle resolutions higher than FullHD including QHD and 4K. However, HDMI 1.4 only supports 24p, while HDMI 2.0 supports 4K at 50p and 60p.

In my case, using DisplayPort 1.2 gives me significantly better image quality.
Again, I encourage those with Mac Mini M4s and older monitors to try and compare the difference between the HDMI and DisplayPort inputs using an USB-3 >> Mini DisplayPort cable.

 

[Sarpanch]

Very well. You have a couple of 4K monitors with HDMI 2.0, a more recent version with better features than HDMI 1.4, which is what my 12-year-old monitor uses.

No one is saying that your observations aren’t valid; it's just that your experience isn’t necessarily replicable in all scenarios. My monitor, delivers a much sharper image through DisplayPort.

Keep in mind that both HDMI 1.4 and 2.0 can handle resolutions higher than FullHD including QHD and 4K. However, HDMI 1.4 only supports 24p, while HDMI 2.0 supports 4K at 50p and 60p.

In my case, using DisplayPort 1.2 gives me significantly better image quality.
Again, I encourage those with Mac Mini M4s and older monitors to try and compare the difference between the HDMI and DisplayPort inputs using an USB-3 >> Mini DisplayPort cable.

The issue lies with MacOS detecting most displays in YPbPr mode rather than RGB when connected with HDMI. With USB-C to display port, the display connects in RGB which has much better text rendering. On Dell Monitors, you can inspect this from the Menu -> Color

If you’d like to get RGB via HDMI, here’s an awesome guide

Force RGB Color on M1 Mac

Force RGB Color on M1 Mac. GitHub Gist: instantly share code, notes, and snippets.

gist.github.com

 

[zterm]

The issue lies with MacOS detecting most displays in YPbPr mode rather than RGB when connected with HDMI. With USB-C to display port, the display connects in RGB which has much better text rendering. On Dell Monitors, you can inspect this from the Menu -> Color

If you’d like to get RGB via HDMI, here’s an awesome guide

Force RGB Color on M1 Mac

Force RGB Color on M1 Mac. GitHub Gist: instantly share code, notes, and snippets.

gist.github.com

Many thanks for your input, I will try and report back tomorrow.