Dealing with Poor Text Rendering on Mac Mini M4 (2560x1440)

[flygbuss]

The issue lies with MacOS detecting most displays in YPbPr mode rather than RGB when connected with HDMI. With USB-C to display port, the display connects in RGB which has much better text rendering. On Dell Monitors, you can inspect this from the Menu -> Color

If you’d like to get RGB via HDMI, here’s an awesome guide

Force RGB Color on M1 Mac

Force RGB Color on M1 Mac. GitHub Gist: instantly share code, notes, and snippets.

gist.github.com

Yes, I was looking for that info. Thank you.

Edit: I remembered reading about it in the past. Apparently macOS sometimes thinks especially via HDMI the connected Monitor is a TV. This also happens if you actually connect a TV to your Mac.

 

[blufrog]

This evening, once again, I tested HDMI versus DisplayPort using a 4K/8K USB/DP converter, and the difference was striking. The screen size is identical, but fonts through HDMI look pixelated—almost like they’ve been scaled down and then up again, with some sharpening added. It seems to be an issue with how HDMI handles font and thin lines rendering.

Interestingly, when I took screen captures, they looked identical. My HDMI cable is 1 meter long and 4K-compatible, so that shouldn’t be the problem. I also snapped some photos with my phone, and the difference can be seen. I’ll upload those later.

If anyone can test an M4 setup with HDMI versus USB/TB on a 1440p monitor, I’m pretty sure you’ll see the same difference. Let me know if you try it!

I did, but people seem to be ignoring my post about it.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/5k2k-at-120hz-with-mac-mini-m4.2441289/page-11?post=33572445#post-33572445

I went to an Apple store, and found the difference was in the display, not the signal.

I'm pleased you were able to try taking screenshots and comparing. I was unable to try this due to time constraints, but it is good to know that your conclusion is the same as mine: the on-device rendering is identical; it's the display that matters.

Apple display is far superior to the LG HDR 4K display we tested with HDMI.

Only when the display was set to STANDARD with HDR enabled in the display setting did the monitor look anything close to the Apple display at native. There was still a difference in how the Apple ID profile picture was handled as it still looked "less smooth" than the Apple display, but with what you stated about screenshots looking identical, this out-rules a difference in rendering.

 

[zterm]

I did, but people seem to be ignoring my post about it.

It was late when I read your post, sorry for not replying.

Since then, I’ve confirmed what Sarpanch mentioned above. Mac Minis default to YPbPr instead of RGB when connected to certain monitors via HDMI. And when switched to RGB, the colors appear completely wrong.

This issue seems well-documented, particularly with certain brands like Dell, though it stems from Apple’s HDMI implementation. While there is a known workaround, the HDMI connection unfortunately reverts to YPbPr every time the computer restarts.

 

[yalej]

Running a 4K display at 2560x1440 @120Hz over Thunderbolt, and I am very happy with the text clarity. No additional apps necessary. It's not Retina look, but close enough. Also, running this display at 240 Hz (its native max refresh) cause the display to sort of split in half with one half being slightly darker than the other half. No clue why. Macs today really need 4K display minimum to get proper text clarity, which is quite unfortunate; this is not an issue on the PC side.

 

[Saberon2014]

Which monitor?

 

[!!!]

Running a 4K display at 2560x1440 @120Hz over Thunderbolt

What's the display? Currently been using a 1080p display at 165Hz, on Mojave. Hoping there's a cheap 4K 120Hz display I can find so I can finally upgrade my OS.

 

[yalej]

What's the display? Currently been using a 1080p display at 165Hz, on Mojave. Hoping there's a cheap 4K 120Hz display I can find so I can finally upgrade my OS.

It's definitely not a cheap display: MSI MPG-321URX. Not typically paired with a Mac, but I bought it for gaming on PC. It works just fine, there's just no MSI monitor software for Macs. I think if you just want 120 Hz @ 4K there are a bunch of cheaper displays out there (this is a 240 Hz QD-OLED).

 

[zterm]

I've just discovered that when my monitor is connected via a USB-C to Mini DisplayPort cable, connecting an external USB-C drive to the Mac Mini causes the display to switch from RGB to YPbPr, resulting in pixelated or sharpened text. Selecting RGB on the monitor doesn't fix the issue and instead distorts the colors. So far, the only solution is to restart the system with the drive connected.

 

[TheRealAlex]

4K 10-bit 144hz HiDPI looks crazy good via HDMI 2.1 on my 55” Samsung S95C.

 

[matbard]

I hooked my new M4 Pro Mac Mini on an Alienware AW3225QF using HDMI 2.1 with an 8K pro cable.

The display looks fantastic. I set everything up with BetterDisplay Pro and I locked the 240hz, RGB, 12-bit setting with HiDPI and HDR10. I'm running it in a "looks like 1080p" but I will go an higher settings because it seems a little big for my eyes...

Just a question: is there a way to permanently enable Dolby Vision support? or it's only available per-content?

Cheers,

 

[Palindrom]

I consider buying a Mac mini as an addition to my current windows setup. I own a 32inch 1440 screen from LG

(LG 32GP850)​

and do not plan to switch my monitor because it is just more than fine for my gaming and windows usage.

Will I have problems with that monitor with the Mac ? Crisp ui and texts are of course wanted and given with my windows setting. I can use hdmi or DisplayPort although the only DisplayPort port is used by my windows setup- but wouldn’t bother switching to hdmi with windows

I read about betterdisplay App. Will I need that ? Or is it sufficient to have the Mac connected via DP?
Do I need the pro version of the app to have the sharpening ?
Is the app safe ?

Thank you in advance

 

[Rokkus76]

I consider buying a Mac mini as an addition to my current windows setup. I own a 32inch 1440 screen from LG

(LG 32GP850)​

and do not plan to switch my monitor because it is just more than fine for my gaming and windows usage.

Will I have problems with that monitor with the Mac ? Crisp ui and texts are of course wanted and given with my windows setting. I can use hdmi or DisplayPort although the only DisplayPort port is used by my windows setup- but wouldn’t bother switching to hdmi with windows

I read about betterdisplay App. Will I need that ? Or is it sufficient to have the Mac connected via DP?
Do I need the pro version of the app to have the sharpening ?
Is the app safe ?

Thank you in advance

I have the same question. It would be interesting to know in advance if the monitor (27" in my case) could be used without too much hassles

 

[cjsuk]

Been down this hell hole route before annoyingly.

My journey...

So any 100% pixel scaling looks like garbage today on anything I find. It's difficult going back and forth to that from any smartphone for example. So on the PC front, you can get a 27" 2560x1440 monitor. Pixels too damn big on anything and looks like crap on macOS. Fortunately that monitor blew up. So I bought a 24" Dell 2560x1440. That works ok-ish at 125% on windows i.e. enough pixel density not to kill your eyes too badly. My daughter runs that on her desktop PC now. So I bought a 27" 4k monitor, firstly a cheap Iiyama one just to see. Yeah works ok on windows at 150% but has sharpness control issues so it gets sent back. Buy a Dell P2723DE 27" 4k instead. Sharpness issue gone but still 150% scaling has a bunch of issues on windows. Sometimes things turn up on the screen at the wrong size due to the whole hack job that is high DPI on win32 apps. On the mac it's just a little blurry. So at that point I was using an M1 mini and that monitor and I bought an M1 Pro MacBook and I was like "oh ok that's what it's supposed to look like". Studio Display comes out and I winced and reluctantly just blew the cash on one.

So your options on the mac are really the following if you actually want something that isn't blurry or a piece of junk:

1. Get a 24" iMac. Seriously that's probably the cheapest option. It's a mac mini with a 24" 4.5k attached to it so it's spot on.
2. Get the Mini and a Studio Display
3. If you want to cheap out, get the Mini and an LG 5k display.
4. Just use a MacBook and be done with it.

Everything else is a horrible horrible compromise which I'm no longer willing to make.

I evolved slowly to a 16/512 M4 Mini and the Studio Display. It's not cheap but it's good. Really damn good.

 

[ubinko]

Been down this hell hole route before annoyingly.

My journey...

So any 100% pixel scaling looks like garbage today on anything I find. It's difficult going back and forth to that from any smartphone for example. So on the PC front, you can get a 27" 2560x1440 monitor. Pixels too damn big on anything and looks like crap on macOS. Fortunately that monitor blew up. So I bought a 24" Dell 2560x1440. That works ok-ish at 125% on windows i.e. enough pixel density not to kill your eyes too badly. My daughter runs that on her desktop PC now. So I bought a 27" 4k monitor, firstly a cheap Iiyama one just to see. Yeah works ok on windows at 150% but has sharpness control issues so it gets sent back. Buy a Dell P2723DE 27" 4k instead. Sharpness issue gone but still 150% scaling has a bunch of issues on windows. Sometimes things turn up on the screen at the wrong size due to the whole hack job that is high DPI on win32 apps. On the mac it's just a little blurry. So at that point I was using an M1 mini and that monitor and I bought an M1 Pro MacBook and I was like "oh ok that's what it's supposed to look like". Studio Display comes out and I winced and reluctantly just blew the cash on one.

So your options on the mac are really the following if you actually want something that isn't blurry or a piece of junk:

1. Get a 24" iMac. Seriously that's probably the cheapest option. It's a mac mini with a 24" 4.5k attached to it so it's spot on.
2. Get the Mini and a Studio Display
3. If you want to cheap out, get the Mini and an LG 5k display.
4. Just use a MacBook and be done with it.

Everything else is a horrible horrible compromise which I'm no longer willing to make.

I evolved slowly to a 16/512 M4 Mini and the Studio Display. It's not cheap but it's good. Really damn good.

Option 5 - Get a 24 inch 4k display. Not exactly easy to come by, but I use a 24 inch LG Ultrafine Display and it looks super.

 

[EugW]

Option 5 - Get a 24 inch 4k display. Not exactly easy to come by, but I use a 24 inch LG Ultrafine Display and it looks super.

That’s a great pixel density. It’s too bad there are no 29-30” displays at that pixel density.

 

[cjsuk]

Option 5 - Get a 24 inch 4k display. Not exactly easy to come by, but I use a 24 inch LG Ultrafine Display and it looks super.

Yeah good option but difficult to find as you note. iMacs are easier!

 

[Rokkus76]

I've just discovered that when my monitor is connected via a USB-C to Mini DisplayPort cable, connecting an external USB-C drive to the Mac Mini causes the display to switch from RGB to YPbPr, resulting in pixelated or sharpened text. Selecting RGB on the monitor doesn't fix the issue and instead distorts the colors. So far, the only solution is to restart the system with the drive connected.

Did using usb-C to Display port and BetterDisplay resolve the text scaling problems? I'm still on the fence about getting the Mini 🧐

 

[zterm]

Did using usb-C to Display port and BetterDisplay resolve the text scaling problems? I'm still on the fence about getting the Mini 🧐

Yes. I finally found an affordable bidirectional USB-DP cable that paired with a BetterDisplay works well in 10-bit RGB. The combo provides acceptable text quality and doesn't cause the monitor to freeze when the computer wakes from sleep.

 

[Rokkus76]

Yes. I finally found an affordable bidirectional USB-DP cable that paired with a BetterDisplay works well in 10-bit RGB. The combo provides acceptable text quality and doesn't cause the monitor to freeze when the computer wakes from sleep.

Thank you. I could do the same thing then. Can you please tell me the cable's brand? I suppose I need tu buy it. Thanks in advance

 

[EugW]

Consider just buying a certified Thunderbolt 4 cable.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/usb-remains-a-mess-ive-taken-to-labeling-my-usb-cables-now.2444344/

EDIT:

Forget that. I failed to realize you were only looking at USB-C to DisplayPort cables.

 

[Rokkus76]

Something like this? https://www.amazon.it/dp/B0CLH439BT/?coliid=I27M28XHEW3JF1&colid=15ARAEQ36HNPO&psc=1

 

[zterm]

Something like this? https://www.amazon.it/dp/B0CLH439BT/?coliid=I27M28XHEW3JF1&colid=15ARAEQ36HNPO&psc=1

I tried that one (and many others) and it provided good quality but some strange reason it froze my monitor when the computer slept. This one from Amazon Basics is cheaper, and video quality is undistinguishable from the Ugreen's, which of course is a nicer cable.

There's also a bi-directional Ugreen as well, but as it is only available in 1.8m lenght (I only need 3 ft) I kept the Amazon Basics. I have not tested the Ugreen.

 

[Rokkus76]

I tried that one (and many others) and it provided good quality but some strange reason it froze my monitor when the computer slept. This one from Amazon Basics is cheaper, and video quality is undistinguishable from the Ugreen's, which of course is a nicer cable.

There's also a bi-directional Ugreen as well, but as it is only available in 1.8m lenght (I only need 3 ft) I kept the Amazon Basics. I have not tested the Ugreen.

Thank you, I'm really grateful to you, you gave me a precious help

 

[zterm]

Thank you, I'm really grateful to you, you gave me a precious help

Glad to be of help.

 

[QuietGamer]

Been down this hell hole route before annoyingly.

My journey...

So any 100% pixel scaling looks like garbage today on anything I find. It's difficult going back and forth to that from any smartphone for example. So on the PC front, you can get a 27" 2560x1440 monitor. Pixels too damn big on anything and looks like crap on macOS. Fortunately that monitor blew up. So I bought a 24" Dell 2560x1440. That works ok-ish at 125% on windows i.e. enough pixel density not to kill your eyes too badly. My daughter runs that on her desktop PC now. So I bought a 27" 4k monitor, firstly a cheap Iiyama one just to see. Yeah works ok on windows at 150% but has sharpness control issues so it gets sent back. Buy a Dell P2723DE 27" 4k instead. Sharpness issue gone but still 150% scaling has a bunch of issues on windows. Sometimes things turn up on the screen at the wrong size due to the whole hack job that is high DPI on win32 apps. On the mac it's just a little blurry. So at that point I was using an M1 mini and that monitor and I bought an M1 Pro MacBook and I was like "oh ok that's what it's supposed to look like". Studio Display comes out and I winced and reluctantly just blew the cash on one.

So your options on the mac are really the following if you actually want something that isn't blurry or a piece of junk:

1. Get a 24" iMac. Seriously that's probably the cheapest option. It's a mac mini with a 24" 4.5k attached to it so it's spot on.
2. Get the Mini and a Studio Display
3. If you want to cheap out, get the Mini and an LG 5k display.
4. Just use a MacBook and be done with it.

Everything else is a horrible horrible compromise which I'm no longer willing to make.

I evolved slowly to a 16/512 M4 Mini and the Studio Display. It's not cheap but it's good. Really damn good.

Duplicate post.