Deciding between 16" M1 PRO and 16" M1 MAX, please help me choose :)

[Technerd108]

If you buy any model you would have 14 days to decide if it is enough. Right now if you buy a Mac you have until Jan 22nd to return. There is NO swapping anything in these machines. Whatever you get is it. You can't even change or replace the SSD. That is why I have been saying spec it up as much as you can but also within reason. There is a point of diminishing returns the higher specification you go. As others have said in 3-4 years there will be a much better Mac so getting better components only does so much. That being said I don't think it will be like Intel where your machine slows down and basic tasks just suck. These M1 chips will be slow compared to new CPU/architecture and process but the M1 is probably not going to age the same as Intel models. It will be interesting to see. I have a feeling these are going to last longer as long as nothing fails.

 

[smirking]

Isn't fast charging going to wear the battery down a lot faster?

CNet says not on modern devices because they only fast charge up to the 50% mark and then start slowing down to reduce strain on the battery as it starts to get full.

Does fast charging affect battery life? 6 phone battery questions, answered

We spoke to experts about overcharging, overheating, fast charging and how to extend your phone's battery life. Here's what we learned.

www.cnet.com

 

[beach bum]

Isn't fast charging going to wear the battery down a lot faster?

That I don’t know. There are conflicting stories, but the OP asked about how long it would take to reach full charge from flat. I provided OP with information for Apple’s website.

All I can do is provide the information that I have and let you know when I don’t have a clue.

 

[profcutter]

I vote base model wholeheartedly. The main difference between max and pro are GPU cores. You’re not even going to come close to maxing out the base model’s cores with your usage. 16 GB RAM is plenty for 100 tabs, not a problem. I’d agree that an IPad Pro would probably do the trick, but if you’re wanting the big screen, just get the base model 16 inch. You definitely won’t outgrow it. I’d be plenty happy to edit 4k video on a base model pro, it would put my top of the line 2015 to shame, and my 2017 iMac from work as well.

 

[J.Gallardo]

…I’m getting the M1 max. For sure, the “pro” would be enough for most of my uses.
BUT, I consider the MAX a higher step, technologically (bandwidth speed, gpu cores…). I hope software developers will make good use of this extra power in a near future; the gap in cost should tend to seem less painful. I feel a little like betting on the MAX as a possible & unexpected power monster.
AND the opposite future value perspective, to think the max will never exhibit the extra paid money, it’s harder to accept.
…I have some spare, I‘ll put my money on the MAX.

 

[profcutter]

I think what seems confusing here is that unless you KNOW you’re going to use those extra GPU cores, they’re not going to have any impact whatsoever on your daily usage. The OP gave their rundown of use of the machine, and none of those would even make an M1 air’s GPUs sweat. The idea of buying more than what you needed at the moment was the way I used to buy computers too, but my 2015 2.8 GHz MacBook Pro doesn’t do anything remarkably faster than the 2.5 that was offered in 2015. It would be a sad state of affairs indeed if the Mac OS version three years from now would need 32 GPU cores to run and support multiple tabs in Firefox…

 

[throAU]

…I’m getting the M1 max. For sure, the “pro” would be enough for most of my uses.
BUT, I consider the MAX a higher step, technologically (bandwidth speed, gpu cores…). I hope software developers will make good use of this extra power in a near future; the gap in cost should tend to seem less painful. I feel a little like betting on the MAX as a possible & unexpected power monster.
AND the opposite future value perspective, to think the max will never exhibit the extra paid money, it’s harder to accept.
…I have some spare, I‘ll put my money on the MAX.

Unless you’re pushing the GPU the memory bandwidth will make no difference.

The bandwidth on the max is all for the GPU cores which you won’t stress.

I’m sure you’ll be happy with a max. But I suspect it will perform pretty much identically for your use case as a pro.

In tests even the max is topping out around 320-330 GB sec max utilisation on the memory and it’s mostly GPU.

So don’t think the pro is starved for bandwidth in non GPU bound workloads.

Capacity wise consider 32 GB on a pro but my 14” pro is doing what you describe, and more quite happily in 16 GB just fine for me.

Maybe see if you can use a demo model in store of the base spec. All of these new m1 based machines are insanely fast vs prior portables.

If you’re worried about gaming performance you’re buying the wrong machine honestly. Native games (eg App Store, arcade) will likely target the Air, mini and iMac. Not $4000 plus laptops. So native games will run fine on any m1 most likely.

Windows games (or ports on steam etc.): Buy a windows desktop for that. Because a max is going to be a very expensive way to get “ok” high end gaming performance on a limited number of titles.

 

[astrorider]

For your use case it sounds like excellent battery life (16 hours), great performance, and a lower price for the M1 Pro 16 is a better fit than great battery life (10 hours), excellent performance, and a higher price for the M1 Max 16. I'm not sure you'd ever see the difference in performance for your use case, but the difference in battery life you could. Here's a review that talks about the difference in battery life between the 16 Pro and Max: https://www.theverge.com/22751921/apple-macbook-pro-14-16-inch-2021-m1-pro-max-review

 

[pshufd]

What I would recommend is a unicorn: an M2-based 16 inch MacBook Air with 32 GB of RAM.

I'm in a similar situation as I wanted a big screen, more ports, multi-monitor support and 32 GB of RAM. My office stuff, including Firefox with a lot of tabs, can use up 16 GB RAM with 1 GB of swap. I run my production stuff on a Windows desktop but would like to move it to macOS. I estimate that 24 GB of RAM would be perfect for me so I got 32 GB. The CPU/GPU on the MacBook Pros, though, is more than what I need. Apple just has a hole for the customer that wants something in-between the M1 and M1 PRO/MAX models. I expect that they will partially fill that hold with a 14 inch M2 Air next summer.

I bought an M1 PRO with 32 GB/1TB and should have bought a MAX as I really wanted 3x4k external monitor support but I'll live with what I bought. I think that this model would be fine for you with the SSD difference. I have a home NAS with 5 TB SSD for storage and I can easily add more if I want to. Or even add 8 GB HDDs.

 

[tekmoe]

I went with the max and have no regrets. Super fast, super smooth. I am sure the pro would have been sufficient too though.

 

[J.Gallardo]

Unless you’re pushing the GPU the memory bandwidth will make no difference.

The bandwidth on the max is all for the GPU cores which you won’t stress.

I’m sure you’ll be happy with a max. But I suspect it will perform pretty much identically for your use case as a pro.

In tests even the max is topping out around 320-330 GB sec max utilisation on the memory and it’s mostly GPU.

So don’t think the pro is starved for bandwidth in non GPU bound workloads.

Capacity wise consider 32 GB on a pro but my 14” pro is doing what you describe, and more quite happily in 16 GB just fine for me.

Maybe see if you can use a demo model in store of the base spec. All of these new m1 based machines are insanely fast vs prior portables.

If you’re worried about gaming performance you’re buying the wrong machine honestly. Native games (eg App Store, arcade) will likely target the Air, mini and iMac. Not $4000 plus laptops. So native games will run fine on any m1 most likely.

Windows games (or ports on steam etc.): Buy a windows desktop for that. Because a max is going to be a very expensive way to get “ok” high end gaming performance on a limited number of titles.

…As I said, I’m gambling, it’s a bet: gpu process power can be used for other tasks. The possibility is there; programmers can make use of openCL (sorry, I’m not sure) to get processing power, and the huge and fast memory bandwidth helps. This kind of thing is not often implemented because each specific gpu would needs specific programming. The architecture of Apple gpu is consistent across all devices, so perhaps developers would make good use of it.
I think we’re not in the same situation as when choosing a 2.8 over a 2.5 Intel. The cost increase here is not just related to bigger or faster.

 

[throAU]

…As I said, I’m gambling, it’s a bet: gpu process power can be used for other tasks. The possibility is there; programmers can make use of openCL (sorry, I’m not sure) to get processing power, and the huge and fast memory bandwidth helps. This kind of thing is not often implemented because each specific gpu would needs specific programming. The architecture of Apple gpu is consistent across all devices, so perhaps developers would make good use of it.
I think we’re not in the same situation as when choosing a 2.8 over a 2.5 Intel.

I get your thinking but…. GPUs are only good at certain things. They’re highly optimised for massively parallel calculations.

They’re not general purpose processors that can be applied to any problem. That’s what CPUs are for.

 

[J.Gallardo]

I get your thinking but…. GPUs are only good at certain things. They’re highly optimised for massively parallel calculations.

They’re not general purpose processors that can be applied to any problem. That’s what CPUs are for.

…Let me show another, more general, point of view I’ve considered to put my money on a machine I won’t use at top performance:
I feel these processors are a new tech paradigm; new numbers for power, heat, battery lasting… …feel they’re even cheap considering general device quality, and much more interesting than similar priced intel laptops.
If I feel there’s a latent and underlying value in a product I want, paying some more for the top specimen seems logical from a pure financial perspective.
(Sorry, no English speaker): if an innovative 3000€ mac equals (and brings added gains) to a 3000€ pc, perhaps the 4000€ unit gives you an equivalent 6000€ value.
I know it’s silly thinking… but I’m gambling, remember?

 

[Fomalhaut]

Hey Dragon M, I am only choosing between the listed ones

The base M1 Max has a 24-core GPU. You forgot that one

 

[yurkennis]

I know it’s silly thinking… but I’m gambling, remember?

From the discussion so far, it doesn't look like you are looking for rational considerations.

 

[profcutter]

…Let me show another, more general, point of view I’ve considered to put my money on a machine I won’t use at top performance:
I feel these processors are a new tech paradigm; new numbers for power, heat, battery lasting… …feel they’re even cheap considering general device quality, and much more interesting than similar priced intel laptops.
If I feel there’s a latent and underlying value in a product I want, paying some more for the top specimen seems logical from a pure financial perspective.
(Sorry, no English speaker): if an innovative 3000€ mac equals (and brings added gains) to a 3000€ pc, perhaps the 4000€ unit gives you an equivalent 6000€ value.
I know it’s silly thinking… but I’m gambling, remember?

I will gladly take that bet, if you’re gambling. I will bet you that those extra 16 GPU cores won’t all of a sudden do non-GPU tasks in the next 3 years. You should buy what you want, none of our business, but the OP said they were asking for advice, and if we’re speaking realistically, those extra GPU cores are just going to remain idle to the point that the max will fare no better than the pro or the original M1 in that scenario.

 

[J.Gallardo]

I will gladly take that bet, if you’re gambling. I will bet you that those extra 16 GPU cores won’t all of a sudden do non-GPU tasks in the next 3 years. You should buy what you want, none of our business, but the OP said they were asking for advice, and if we’re speaking realistically, those extra GPU cores are just going to remain idle to the point that the max will fare no better than the pro or the original M1 in that scenario.

What about resale value?

 

[Kazgarth]

Regular M1 with 16GB RAM should be enough for your workflow.

But if you really want the new MacBooks then opt for the M1 Pro with 16 or 32GB RAM.

2x ProRes accelerators would be a waste if you opt for the M1 Max, since you will never use one, let alone two.

 

[throAU]

What about resale value?

Spending more today means losing more money come sale time. Maybe go talk to some 2019 Mac Pro owners about their investment, vs long term value.

At the time if they could make use of such machines they would have paid for themselves. But resale is going to be trash. Same here. If you can make use of the machine go for it. Otherwise you're wasting your money if you're trying to up-spec for a possible future benefit. by the time that looks like happening, there will be much faster, cheaper hardware on the market with a current warranty, new IO ports your today-may will not have, new wifi, etc.

 

[J.Gallardo]

GitHub - devMEremenko/XcodeBenchmark: XcodeBenchmark measures the compilation time of a large codebase on iMac, MacBook, and Mac Pro

XcodeBenchmark measures the compilation time of a large codebase on iMac, MacBook, and Mac Pro - devMEremenko/XcodeBenchmark

github.com

M1 max is also slightly faster in non graphics tasks; to be true, I presume the negligible difference comes from having double RAM.
If it’s possible to afford, I like the idea of having unused extra gpu cores. Perhaps having a higher ceiling encourages me to try different things when editing family movies. And perhaps my 2hours/month playing CitiesSkylines are more enjoyable. By the way, I suspect Apple feels more confident now at putting gpu to good use: new screens, attention to HDR, a lot of visual gimmicks to come in Monterey, spreading proRAW use…
I understand perfectly well I’m being driven by caprice; my 2018 i7 iMac still fits ok (and I didn’t go for the i9 when buying). A MacBook Air could suffice.
I admit it‘s just the craving, but during all these years (Apple user for more than 30) going for the TOP was like an impossible dream (just think of Mac Pro!). It’s the first time I can afford to get the TOP portable Apple makes. There’s a proportional difference in cost now. The jump in price used to be nightmarish when getting the best! (Or it’s just my imagination and bad memory).

 

[pshufd]

I did some video editing on my M1 mini last week and noticed that it uses ProRes (from a task in Activity Monitor). It wasn't particularly fast. It would be interesting running this on my MacBook Pro to see how good the new accelerators are. It would be interesting if they put those accelerators in the M2 chip

I was just assembling QuickTime files from screen video capture using iMovie.

 

[profcutter]

GitHub - devMEremenko/XcodeBenchmark: XcodeBenchmark measures the compilation time of a large codebase on iMac, MacBook, and Mac Pro

XcodeBenchmark measures the compilation time of a large codebase on iMac, MacBook, and Mac Pro - devMEremenko/XcodeBenchmark

github.com

M1 max is also slightly faster in non graphics tasks; to be true, I presume the negligible difference comes from having double RAM.
If it’s possible to afford, I like the idea of having unused extra gpu cores. Perhaps having a higher ceiling encourages me to try different things when editing family movies. And perhaps my 2hours/month playing CitiesSkylines are more enjoyable. By the way, I suspect Apple feels more confident now at putting gpu to good use: new screens, attention to HDR, a lot of visual gimmicks to come in Monterey, spreading proRAW use…
I understand perfectly well I’m being driven by caprice; my 2018 i7 iMac still fits ok (and I didn’t go for the i9 when buying). A MacBook Air could suffice.
I admit it‘s just the craving, but during all these years (Apple user for more than 30) going for the TOP was like an impossible dream (just think of Mac Pro!). It’s the first time I can afford to get the TOP portable Apple makes. There’s a proportional difference in cost now. The jump in price used to be nightmarish when getting the best! (Or it’s just my imagination and bad memory).

Like we said, no one can make you buy one thing or another, it’s just about not spending extra money when it’s not necessary. A 16” max will be significantly more money up front, it will have worse battery life, and the resale will not be appreciably better than the lower end M1pro models.
The fact remains that unless there’s something the Max provides you now, you’d be better off saving your money for a replacement with an M4 pro chip in a few years. Think about how you’ll fee actually using the thing: once the high of spending in the high 3000s USD wears off, will it fee any better to use a high spec max than a base pro? Unless you’re doing 3d rendering or 8k video editing with plenty of effects, or using 3 external displays, you won’t notice any difference other than a lighter wallet.

 

[Dragon M.]

Also I keep hearing the same argument-don't get M1 max because you will never need it???? It is like saying I don't want the V8 performance because I don't think I will ever use it?? On top of that this V8 gets gas mileage like a Hybrid with the same performance or even better than old V8. Who would not want to know they have that power if they ever need it??

The only thing you're missing in this metaphor is you'd only be using the V8 in 25 mph neighborhoods, maybe once a year on a 40 mph highway, and the V8 upgrade costs significantly more.

If a few grand is a drop in the bucket, by all means, buy the best you can get, as long as you know that the "gambling odds" you'll use even half that computational power is the same probability you find yourself in a brand new career in Machine Learning, computational scientific research, computer aided design, professional video editing, or something else that requires competency in a specialized skillset.

For the people who dont think a grand is a drop in the bucket, the $$$ could be much better spent on a 4K monitor or a docking setup for your perfectly capable, non-maxed out, computer.

But to be just blunt,

Perhaps having a higher ceiling encourages me to try different things when editing family movies.

is not a task that falls in the "specialized skillset" category.

The possibility is there; programmers can make use of openCL (sorry, I’m not sure) to get processing power

And OpenCL is NOT new and GPU computing is not new. OpenCL and CUDA have been around a respectable amount of time. If developers haven't found a way to utilize it for mundane everyday tasks yet, they're not going to in the next foreseeable amount of years -- and definitely not before you make the emotional decision to upgrade your maxed out M1 Max to the M3 Max because Apple's marketing got to you.

And there's a simple reason for that, which throAU already mentioned. GPU computing is just way too limited.

For heaven's sake, most programs you encounter to this day still dont even use multiple *CPU* cores. GPU parallelization is a significantly more difficult task than basic CPU parallelization.

 

[J.Gallardo]

Another consideration: apart from cpu, 32GB ram and 1TB disk seem quite rational (mandatory for me).
If I upgrade m1 pro to 32GB ram, there are a mere 400€ up to get 16 extra gpu cores in “max“ basic configuration.(I’m pointing 16” one)
And being a standard model, they send it to me two weeks earlier.
See? It’s not like in prior MacBook-pro’s, when getting the best gpu/cpu/storage would rise the price terribly.
Oh my god! Throwing away 400 more into a laptop seems more reasonable than getting those fancy AirPod Max, in my thoughts.
Possibly upgrading internal ssd to 2TB would make better use for me (and would be the same over-cost, aprox.), but external fast (not so fast as blazing internal) storage is convenient also, and I’m already have and use, like a good bt mouse and keyboard, that can be paired to the MAX.
“Curiously“, upgrading PRO to 64GB ram drives to same price gap. (This is calculated, for sure).

What could I buy with saved 440(…)€ choosing the “PRO” with 32GB ram?
Some Apple WatchBands?

 

[profcutter]

Another consideration: apart from cpu, 32GB ram and 1TB disk seem quite rational (mandatory for me).
If I upgrade m1 pro to 32GB ram, there are a mere 400€ up to get 16 extra gpu cores in “max“ basic configuration.(I’m pointing 16” one)
And being a standard model, they send it to me two weeks earlier.
See? It’s not like in prior MacBook-pro’s, when getting the best gpu/cpu/storage would rise the price terribly.
Oh my god! Throwing away 400 more into a laptop seems more reasonable than getting those fancy AirPod Max, in my thoughts.
Possibly upgrading internal ssd to 2TB would make better use for me (and would be the same over-cost, aprox.), but external fast (not so fast as blazing internal) storage is convenient also, and I’m already have and use, like a good bt mouse and keyboard, that can be paired to the MAX.
“Curiously“, upgrading PRO to 64GB ram drives to same price gap. (This is calculated, for sure).

What could I buy with saved 440(…)€ choosing the “PRO” with 32GB ram?
Some Apple WatchBands?

Umm. 440 Euro is two monthly payments on my top-of-the-line VW GTI, which is almost paid off. You’re probably not going to want to hear this, but I’m reasonably certain that you wouldn’t need 32 GB with your use case. This isn’t a criticism, people seem to take it personally when they’re told what they can get for cheaper is enough. I‘m using an iPad pro for most of my daily work now, not the M1 version, the 2020 version. I like it, even though the screen is a bit small for me, because I like the touch screen and the lack of a fan. It runs 200 webpage tabs even with only 6gb of RAM. Yeah, they have to reload, but it’s fine. It’s to the point to where I get grumpy when I have to haul out my 15 inch 2015, either because there’s files on there that I don’t have on the iPad, or I’m doing something the iPad can’t handle because of an iOS limitation. I also have a work-issued imac with dual displays for heavy lifting, but I really think with the use case you posted, even with video editing, 16 GB is fine. Remember, this is cash you could save for a new machine in a couple years if your new video career takes off.