Definitive Qualcomm (A1660/A1661) v. Intel (A1778/A1784) iPhone 7/7 Plus Thread

[Mr. Zarniwoop]

On phone was it the store rep or a Apple rep? I had called a store rep and they told as long as there's phone available they'll do it.

The person I spoke to was from the army recruited to handle the flood of Apple iUP issues.

The person in-store was at the New York Fifth Avenue store. There was 30-45 minutes of discussion and back-and-forth with the store manager and apparently a call to someone at "corporate." In the end, nope.

 

[metsjetsfan]

I expected it.

Intel baseband modem = Cat 10(450Mbps), 2015 technology, 28nm fabrication, use more battery.
Qualcomm baseband modem = Cat 12(600Mbps), 2016 technology, 14nm fabrication, use less battery.

wow those are pretty big differences. are thosr confirmed? why does the qualcomm one say 2015. thanks

 

[Dirtydutch]

This should be more controversial than the headphone jack as far as I'm concerned

 

[lancastor]

Is there an App that shows which modem is used in the iPhone?

 

[Mr. Zarniwoop]

wow those are pretty big differences. are thosr confirmed? thanks

They are theoretical differences, and it's unclear if supported. Three things to consider:

1. I don't think any US carriers support cat.12. I think T-Mobile was to start using cat.11 somewhere in the US just this month, and they'd be the first.

2. Qualcomm has several hundred times more experience than Intel in making LTE platforms. This may result in some difference in battery life or performance.

3. But, it's unlikely it's very much in this implementation since Apple doesn't want one iPhone 7 experience to be appreciably different from another. What are the odds that Apple has optimized the firmware on the Qualcomm hardware to be faster/better battery than the Intel hardware? For example, the Qualcomm firmware may not support cat.11/12 downlinks so they are effectively both cat.10 devices.

 

[Dirtydutch]

Is there an App that shows which modem is used in the iPhone

iPhone model 1660/1661 use Qualcomm and all bands

 

[bitslap47]

I would think the application specific Intel Radio would use less power. I mean, it is scanning less bands, and IIRC CDMA\WCDMA is less power efficient than GSM.

If what I am remembering is accurate, I'd rather have a GSM only radio personally.

I also think I remember Verizon users stating they got less battery life than GSM users. That may have been before LTE though... not sure.

 

[metsjetsfan]

They are theoretical differences, and it's unclear if supported. Three things to consider:

1. I don't think any US carriers support cat.12. I think T-Mobile was to start using cat.11 somewhere in the US just this month, and they'd be the first.

2. Qualcomm has several hundred times more experience than Intel in making LTE platforms. This may result in some difference in battery life or performance.

3. But, it's unlikely it's very much in this implementation since Apple doesn't want one iPhone 7 experience to be appreciably different from another. What are the odds that Apple has optimized the firmware on the Qualcomm hardware to be faster/better battery than the Intel hardware? For example, the Qualcomm firmware may not support cat.11/12 downlinks so they are effectively both cat.10 devices.

Thanks all great points. Why does the Qualcomm one have 2015 in the documentation thought it was 2016

 

[Elisha]

I would think the application specific Intel Radio would use less power. I mean, it is scanning less bands, and IIRC CDMA\WCDMA is less power efficient than GSM.

If what I am remembering is accurate, I'd rather have a GSM only radio personally.

I also think I remember Verizon users stating they got less battery life than GSM users. That may have been before LTE though... not sure.

It's not going trough the supported bands when scanning. Only whatever is compatible to the sim/carrier you're on.
Looks like Apple doesn't want to be too reliant on Qualcomm and Intel has been trying to get back into the mobile game anyway.
And it's not like Intel has no experience. They bought Infineon who used to make mobile radio chips.

 

[Mr. Zarniwoop]

The Register has an interesting article on Apple's motivations for using both Intel and Qualcomm modems in the iPhone 7 models.

There's a link to a tweet in the article that claims that the new Intel modem in an iPhone 7 Plus is about 40% slower than the year-old Qualcomm-based iPhone 6S Plus on T-Mobile's US LTE network. Modemgate?
[doublepost=1474249820][/doublepost]

And it's not like Intel has no experience. They bought Infineon who used to make mobile radio chips.

While Infineon made cellular modems, they were all pre-LTE. Once the LTE iPhone 5 came out, Apple switched to Qualcomm.

These are the first Intel LTE modems in widespread use.

 

[lancastor]

I think Intel chips are much cheaper than Qualcomm. That could be the reason.

And 40% slower is still more enough you need.

 

[Juan007]

It's not just cheaper chips from intel, it's royalties. Apple saves a few dimes by leaving out cdma support. A completely disgraceful move when you consider we're paying 650 usd or more.

Shame on apple.

 

[Elisha]

The only reason CDMA isn't dead is because of Qualcomm's monopoly and their licensing. Time to kill it once and for all.
Too bad Apple didn't go with a higher end Intel modem though.

 

[BlueGoldAce]

It's not just cheaper chips from intel, it's royalties. Apple saves a few dimes by leaving out cdma support. A completely disgraceful move when you consider we're paying 650 usd or more.

Shame on apple.

I'm getting great speeds, compared to my note 7, on T-Mobile with the new iPhone.

That being said, it is a shame, but are people surprised? Apple makes great products, but consistently makes moves to lock people into their ecosystem, or to save a few dimes on already high profit margins.

It's the way Apple operates. They are a great company with great tech and customer support, but they are far from perfect.

 

[metsjetsfan]

The Register has an interesting article on Apple's motivations for using both Intel and Qualcomm modems in the iPhone 7 models.

There's a link to a tweet in the article that claims that the new Intel modem in an iPhone 7 Plus is about 40% slower than the year-old Qualcomm-based iPhone 6S Plus on T-Mobile's US LTE network. Modemgate?
[doublepost=1474249820][/doublepost]
While Infineon made cellular modems, they were all pre-LTE. Once the LTE iPhone 5 came out, Apple switched to Qualcomm.

These are the first Intel LTE modems in widespread use.

the slower speed should not be an issue for another 2 yrs. we are all reduced to the lowest common denominator here and no cell tower hits even 300M here. maybe some new developing nations with super new infrastructure but that is rare.

the power consumption if true would be annoying/concern if the qcom one is more efficient.

 

[Mr. Zarniwoop]

the slower speed should not be an issue for another 2 yrs. we are all reduced to the lowest common denominator here and no cell tower hits even 300M here. maybe some new developing nations with super new infrastructure but that is rare.

the power consumption if true would be annoying/concern if the qcom one is more efficient.

What's concerning about the 40%-slower-on-Intel tweet is that it is a real-world comparative speed difference, not a theoretical future state. It literally shows 42Mbps on Intel vs. 59Mbps on Qualcomm with similar results on repeated faster and slower tests on T-Mobile today in the US.

From strictly the specs on the Qualcomm, it should be more power-efficient than the Intel. However, that doesn't automatically mean that will translate to better battery life in real-world tests. This may end up similarly to the Samsung v. TMSC A9 in the iPhone 6S. The TMSC A9 is more power-efficient then the Samsung A9, but in Apple's implementations the real-world battery life results are only 2-3% better.

 

[metsjetsfan]

What's concerning about the 40%-slower-on-Intel tweet is that it is a real-world comparative speed difference, not a theoretical future state. It literally shows 42Mbps on Intel vs. 59Mbps on Qualcomm with similar results on repeated faster and slower tests on T-Mobile today in the US.

From strictly the specs on the Qualcomm, it should be more power-efficient than the Intel. However, that doesn't automatically mean that will translate to better battery life in real-world tests. This may end up similarly to the Samsung v. TMSC A9 in the iPhone 6S. The TMSC A9 is more power-efficient then the Samsung A9, but in Apple's implementations the real-world battery life results are only 2-3% better.

Those tests are with speed test apps right? Not actual real downloading? Yes I know they should be correlate directly

 

[Mr. Zarniwoop]

Those tests are with speed test apps right? Not actual real downloading? Yes I know they should be correlate directly

Ookla Speed Test is considered real-world download speeds, not theoretical.

 

[gadgetfreaky]

I expected it.

Intel baseband modem = Cat 10(450Mbps), 2015 technology, 28nm fabrication, use more battery.
Qualcomm baseband modem = Cat 12(600Mbps), 2016 technology, 14nm fabrication, use less battery.

so that's the key question for me- battery life.

if the quacomm chips gets you even 1 extra hour on LTE - that's fairly huge.

 

[Jetro]

Unless you need to use Verizon or sprint service I wouldn't worry that you have an intel modem. Intel is pretty cutting edge in tech. Back in the dialup modem days I had an intel 56k modem in my pc on netzero dialup and it was awesome and was usable for internet surfing compared to the slow conexant modems. I think this is an overblown issue other than you can't switch carriers until cdma is dropped.

 

[donkeykong88]

What I posted in another thread on Reddit:

tl;dr it won't be a difference in real world speeds, but it will likely make a small difference in battery life. Also not support for EVS

Great attempt OP, but it's almost impossible to isolate performance down to the modem in the real world without some serious network equipment. Without an isolated base station, you can't really measure speed and other performance metrics given you're testing against a shared resource.

The modem is obviously one of the most important parts of the cell stack, but there's a bevy of other components in the RF front end from transceivers to power amplifiers, all of which can affect performance.

My $0.02 on modemgate is that while it's very disappointing to see Apple pick an inferior product for some portion of iPhone 7 devices, the average user shouldn't see any difference in real world performance. Every modem that is certified by the networks, whether it's from Qualcomm, Intel, Samsung or Mediatek, will meet the basic performance standards.

That being said, only time will tell on the energy efficiency of the Intel stack vs. the Qualcomm stack, and it's disappointing to see Apple disable features like EVS and 256QAM just to keep parity with the Intel stack.

 

[airjay75]

I have no intention of switching to Sprint or Verizon, especially since I'm taking advantage of he $650 trade in offer with AT&T. But, this feels similar to the whole Samsung/TMSC-gate last year. I remember feeling a little bummed out when I found out my phone had the Samsung chip, but after a few weeks, I didn't really care anymore.

Still, I would like to know whether there are real world performance differences between the Intel and Qualcomm chips. Seems like everyone assumes that the Qualcomm chips will perform better, but I have yet to see anything that really provides any evidence one way or the other.

 

[metsjetsfan]

so that's the key question for me- battery life.

if the quacomm chips gets you even 1 extra hour on LTE - that's fairly huge.

I agree but I dont even know if those are the chips that are in the phone. did ifixit confirm those exact components for both intel and qcom? for the model #s I mean. I think it's definitely established intel for the no cdma and qcom for the cdma

 

[aka777]

Sounds like apple has restricted all of the advanced features of the qualcom chipset anyway. I am sure these will be available in next years iphone instead. Had they not, the 4x4 mimo would be amazing on T-Mobile and other international carriers.

 

[metsjetsfan]

Sounds like apple has restricted all of the advanced features of the qualcom chipset anyway. I am sure these will be available next year. Had they not, the 4x4 mimo would be amazing on T-Mobile and other international carriers.

damn really? is there link?