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Give me a few more weeks to digest the thread properly in detail and to let others chime in. Then discussions will have to be held, and some people who need to be involved might be on vacation... then we'll see what we can do... so is 2009 OK? On a Tuesday? ;)

Nah, we're probably looking at September given some of the other things going on here and in my own life.

Let's not rush into anything. Hold the faith and just enjoy the journey. :)

Thanks for the Update. :) If you make a list of things under consideration by MR, I'm sure lots of people would be happy here to discuss.
 
  • Sticky post for a weekly contest or assignment might be fun.
  • Sticky post for members to share advanced techniques they use in various applications.
  • Sticky post for portfolios.
 
Some random thoughts:

•*All the contests have been immensely entertaining. Whether they were video, avatar, etc. Maybe a spoof ad contest? I think they should be more frequent.

•*Macrumors redesign contest?

•*Maybe stickies for design application key-command lists?

•*Is it possible to make some sort of 'what font is this' megathread?
 
I figure I'll add my 2 cents worth in here. I'd like to maybe see something more organized also. For example, bluetooth I think has it right. More breakdowns make it easier to follow and find what you're looking for. Then maybe at the top, have a "Show All Threads" that will open it to how it is now. This will help those who want to see just the recent posts and comment or answer the questions. I think this is the best way to go at it.

On a side not, I think it would be cool to have a Training thread or something. People sign up for a week or something to give somewhat of a tutorial of something they found useful in photoshop or whatever it may be. They have a step-by-step process to help people learn those extra features or shortcuts. I'd be interested in learning from some of the more professionals around in this forum. I'd like to know what other people think about this.
 
I figure I'll add my 2 cents worth in here. I'd like to maybe see something more organized also. For example, bluetooth I think has it right. More breakdowns make it easier to follow and find what you're looking for.

I'm very much thinking along these lines as well. The Design & Graphics forum is in it's current guise, ironically enough, in such a disorganised and unstructured state.

I'm also considering whether this forum should encompass not only web design, but also motion graphic design, though obviously technically different disciplines, they're often subject to the same creative rigour.
 
The assignment idea is great but it should be not for portfolio but exercises for either technical use of software, tutorials, and creative workshops. That will be beneficial for people already in the industry or getting into it to see how it works.
 
I can see where superficially, some may see merit in merging the web design forum with this one, but that idea loses because it takes away a place to discuss graphics outside the context of design. Art and design are really different animals, and graphics outside the little world of design already suffers here by lumping them into the same spot. I'm not convinced that a rearrangement is really required in the sense that it would improve anything, but a more sensible breakdown if such a thing were to be done would be areas for graphics, web manglement/markup/programming, and a separate corner for the designers to hang out.

Quite a lot of the material suggested in this thread (howto/guide/tutorial stuff) doesn't really need any special changes in the forum structure, all it takes is for anyone who feels compelled to write such a thing to write and post it. That's sort of what the guides were supposed to be for, but a forum thread is just as good. The information is the interesting part, where it ultimately winds up is secondary.

A regular portfolio area might get work-intensive for moderators, some careful guidelines would be needed to draw a line between showcasing and critique vs. advertising.

There are also fragile boundaries for the assignments and contest suggestions. Open-ended things structured much like the photo forum or the occasional site-wide contests wouldn't cause problems for anyone since there are no consequences, but anything like site a redesign contest for MR itself would be commercial spec work and flouting the rule changes what were only recently imposed.
 
I can see where superficially, some may see merit in merging the web design forum with this one, but that idea loses because it takes away a place to discuss graphics outside the context of design.

But web design is design.
 
There are also fragile boundaries for the assignments and contest suggestions. Open-ended things structured much like the photo forum or the occasional site-wide contests wouldn't cause problems for anyone since there are no consequences, but anything like site a redesign contest for MR itself would be commercial spec work and flouting the rule changes what were only recently imposed.

I guess I meant more like the Apple commercial contest or the avatar contests. Prize or no prize, it's not spec work. I could see where a Macrumors site design contest would cause some issues though.
 
But web design is design.
Yes, but web development is not.

I think the separation we have now between Graphics and Design an one hand and Web Design and Development is rather good. There will always be crossover threads that could have been put in either forum (or maybe it's about using photographs in the over all design of a web page, which might even be put in a third).

Graphic designers and web designers (to keep web developers out of it for a moment) are, in many ways, very different. Of course some ground rules of design will of course be the same, but graphic designers rarely needs to work out div tags and css, while web designers rarely use Indesign or Quark.

Then there's all the other aspects of web development: scripting and programming...

So, as a final word: Concentrate on making this forum better and get your hands off "my" Web Design and Development forum... ;)
 
Yes, but web development is not.

I think the separation we have now between Graphics and Design an one hand and Web Design and Development is rather good. There will always be crossover threads that could have been put in either forum (or maybe it's about using photographs in the over all design of a web page, which might even be put in a third).

Graphic designers and web designers (to keep web developers out of it for a moment) are, in many ways, very different. Of course some ground rules of design will of course be the same, but graphic designers rarely needs to work out div tags and css, while web designers rarely use Indesign or Quark.

Then there's all the other aspects of web development: scripting and programming...

So, as a final word: Concentrate on making this forum better and get your hands off "my" Web Design and Development forum... ;)

This actually brings up a idea/question that is relevant to both this thread and other areas in the forum:

How hard is it to make subforums that appear under two main forum headings?

I'm thinking about places where items such as website design critiques (which would benefit from the advice of both web developers and graphic designers), motion graphics (video experts and designers), photo montage threads (photographers and designers) could be placed.

There is some crossover between all these disciplines and sometimes I get the feeling that forcing the original poster to post in one area or another limits the kind of feedback they can get (since some experts only visit certain special interest forums and not others).

Just wondering if this would be possible in vBulletin or not, as it seems there are some specific areas that could benefit from this sort of cross-pollination.
 
Yes, but web development is not.

I think the separation we have now between Graphics and Design an one hand and Web Design and Development is rather good. There will always be crossover threads that could have been put in either forum (or maybe it's about using photographs in the over all design of a web page, which might even be put in a third).

Then there's all the other aspects of web development: scripting and programming...

So, as a final word: Concentrate on making this forum better and get your hands off "my" Web Design and Development forum... ;)

Territorial, eh?

I agree with you, there are differences, which is why I would make it a subforum of design. They're the same. But different.

We could also split them up into design and development, but I think that's also just sparse. We have more design questions here than development ones.

This actually brings up a idea/question that is relevant to both this thread and other areas in the forum:

How hard is it to make subforums that appear under two main forum headings?

It's pretty easy in vBulletin. Some forums can be "links" to other ones.
 
I agree with you, there are differences, which is why I would make it a subforum of design. They're the same. But different.

We could also split them up into design and development, but I think that's also just sparse. We have more design questions here than development ones.
Why...? Web design and Web development are very strongly connected, and getting your html and css to work properly is very different form the "design-oriented apps and techniques" that is the focus of this forum.

Now if you want to make a nice design on a web site header (or even a whole web site) and focus only on the design process and how you make those graphic elements in Illustrator, Photoshop, Freehand or whatever, then make the thread in the Design forum and if you want to make it work on a webpage come over on the Web forum.

Again, think of ways to make this forum better and lay off the Web forum, which is actually working pretty well. Seriously.
 
Why...? Web design and Web development are very strongly connected, and getting your html and css to work properly is very different form the "design-oriented apps and techniques" that is the focus of this forum.

Now if you want to make a nice design on a web site header (or even a whole web site) and focus only on the design process and how you make those graphic elements in Illustrator, Photoshop, Freehand or whatever, then make the thread in the Design forum and if you want to make it work on a webpage come over on the Web forum.

Again, think of ways to make this forum better and lay off the Web forum, which is actually working pretty well. Seriously.

Web design and development are strongly connected, but I don't consider HTML/CSS to be development. It's part of design. Job headings for designers will require advanced knowledge of XHTML/CSS and sometimes also AJAX, among other things. Development is really PHP/MySQL, Ruby, etc and we don't get that many of those questions. And like I said, if we split it, it would be sparse. But I'm not in flavor of splitting it so much as organisinig it better with design, which is, of couse, closely related to design in general, and yet different.

Despite the description for the design forum, I see many "what font...", and "how to..." questions and lots about graphic programs, esp photoshop and the whole cs suite. This forum needs a lot of organizational work. I'd suggest at least a Photoshop forum or something. But there are many more articulate suggestions above. The description itself probably also needs work.

I agree with you there, the web forum is working pretty well. At the very least, however, I want it moved up closer to the design forum in the listings (I skip over photo and a/v each time).

Anyway, I find it somewhat tedious to have to create 2 separate threads all aiming to achieve the same goal.

My main reason for moving them closer (and possibly including one in the other) is to gather all design reviews and portfolio reviews in one place. Where does one post a review without double posting? Also, some users only view one forum regularly and not both (including me, a month ago). Right now, there's no way to get both audiences (despite a large overlap) without double posting.

Example:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/327896/

The audience that responded to this thread is limited mostly to a few players.

I think you're a bit too resistant to change. If you read some of the suggestions, you'll notice that some don't want to change the web design and development forum in the sense of breaking it up or merging it, but rather just moving it, all for the sake of improving it really.

I also think that you might be surprised in terms of the benefits your the forum could reap.
It's not your forum, rather MR's and therefore everyone's.
 
For now, let's just assume there won't be a wholesale forum reorganisation... and although the argument for wholesale change may have its merits, the terms of this discussion was specifically about this forum as it is.

I'm not necessarily ruling anything out, its just that a forum reorganisation will need far more consultation at higher levels and buy-in from key people, and this wasn't part of the plan.
 
Yes, but web development is not.

And neither is the printing process, digital/analogue hardware control or rapid prototyping. But this discussion is about how the design forum could perhaps be improved, which inevitably includes considering the inclusion and representation of all design based disciplines under a common design umbrella, irrespective of the individual technical development requirements for each discipline, of which Web Design is no more unique than any other design discipline.
 
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Please, let's put the issue of whole forum reorganisation to one side. These are not currently the terms of this discussion at this point in time. I thought that was clear from my initial post.

Essentially, I'm asking as a mere moderator, what changes you'd like to see in here and the sensible suggestions that I can enact without too much upward referral and consultation will be the ones I'll try and put into place.

Discussions on extensive forum reorganisation should be addressed in the Site and Forum Feedback forum.
 
Essentially, I'm asking as a mere moderator, what changes you'd like to see in here and the sensible suggestions that I can enact without too much upward referral and consultation will be the ones I'll try and put into place.

I think one of the most important steps that could be taken in this forum would be to work on setting up a new sticky thread with resources that recognize some of us are beginners are really turning to this resource as a place to start learning. Honestly, I can't tell you how difficult it has been to even begin to differentiate what the different languages are used for. Unfortunately, the other sticky threads in this forum tend to throw so much at us that it is just as confusing and makes feel like you are downing, rather than informed.

The point is the resources are great, but I think more detailed explanations of the programming purpose, utility, and applicability of the various languages.

Some examples (example 1, example 2, example 3) of questions I have asked that I think are indicative of general confusion and needs for those of us beginning to enter this arena.
 
The point is the resources are great, but I think more detailed explanations of the programming purpose, utility, and applicability of the various languages.

Thanks for your post but this is specifically the Design & Graphics forum we're talking about here. ;)
 
oh crapper, woops sorry, I was excited about the possibility of someone taking action in the programming page. Are you or is anyone else working on that section and do you think that the suggestions I made might be possible to at least begin to work towards, I would offer to help, but alas, I am the one who is in need of the organization. :rolleyes:
 
I think it would be great if there were sub sections in the Design & Graphics Forum.

ie. When you Click on the Design and Graphics Forum you would see a menu for threads such as

- Stickies
- General
- Print Design
- Web Design
- Fonts/Typography
- Critiques/Brainstorming
- Freelancing/marketing
- Pricing/Estimating
- Hardware
- Software
- Education/Courses

I like bluetooth's idea - I enjoy browsing in the Design & Graphics forum; it's interesting and I end up learning a lot from it. A little structure would help tremendously!
 
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