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diglloyd's 2.93GHz 'Nehalem' Mac Pro Review!
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Ah, yes. Here it is, right in the review. Duh! 
"Since I run my Mac Pro as much as 14 hours a day, I care about power usage, which hits $0.35/KWh at my home in expensive run-by-morons California."
And yes, it is unclear which year('s) models are being referred to.
"Power usage is amazingly good for this class machine. Past Mac Pros would hit the 550 watt range under full load; the MP09 maxes out at about 350 watts under the most severe load."
"Since I run my Mac Pro as much as 14 hours a day, I care about power usage, which hits $0.35/KWh at my home in expensive run-by-morons California."
And yes, it is unclear which year('s) models are being referred to.
"Power usage is amazingly good for this class machine. Past Mac Pros would hit the 550 watt range under full load; the MP09 maxes out at about 350 watts under the most severe load."
yikes
550W seemed like a lot.... until I compared the power consumption for the 08 Mac Pro & the G5 that I have.
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=32486
Dual 2Ghz - 140W (idle) 604 W (max)
Mac Pro 2.8Ghz - 155 W (idle) 318 W (max)
Mac Pro 2.93Ghz - can't find information at apple for this yet.
550W seemed like a lot.... until I compared the power consumption for the 08 Mac Pro & the G5 that I have.
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=32486
Dual 2Ghz - 140W (idle) 604 W (max)
Mac Pro 2.8Ghz - 155 W (idle) 318 W (max)
Mac Pro 2.93Ghz - can't find information at apple for this yet.
I agree, but even with the limited amount of benchmarks for other applications, I think it's safe to say we can't expect miracles at this point.
To see a significant increase in performance over the '08 models, even the 2.8 Octo, one needs to get the top-of-the-line 2.93 Ghz Octo, or at least the 2.66 Octo, with lots of RAM and the obligatory HDD setup optimizations for most pro applications.
Even then , one has to spend about 50-100% more money for a performance gain of 0-50%, depending on one's programs and projects.
Users with a light workload are not likely to see any gains at all - this update is not like going from a Dual G5 to an Octo Intel MP .
And most bugs and compatibility issues aren't known yet.
My guess is, sometime next year there'll be a more affordable revision with slighly better specs, hopefully a case design adjusted to Nehalem (or successor), cheaper and larger RAM sticks, a by then stable Snow Leopard and a bunch of applications optimized for both the OS and new hardware .
Then we can talk progress - imho.
Well you can run 12GB of RAM and it'll use tripple channel. BUT have you seen the barefeats review about RAM, where they say that you still do get the full benefits from 16GB with apps still utilzing 15GB of the 16GB RAM opening up tripple channel.
Either way, with Nehalems so called crippled of the tripple channel, its still 2x faster than the dual channel maxed out of the 08 models in memory tests.
Yes, I'm very happy about this as well, but I am looking more forward to seeing how the Nehalems are going to compare after Snow Leopard is released and more apps are updated to take true advantage of what they can do.
I'm also looking forward to diglloyd's results with the 09 with 32G or RAM. (yes, I can read, but after reading the whole shebang, it slipped my mind. I guess my brain needs a RAM upgrade too
)All we know is it idles at 143W.
http://images.apple.com/environment/resources/pdf/Mac-Pro-Environmental-Report.pdf
No, of course not. It's like going from an Octo Intel MP... to and Octo Intel MP. There are too many people that expect the difference between this year's model and last year's to be night and day. And actually, at the same clockspeed it almost is. Why do people think you should throw out a computer after 1 year and buy the next one?
I agree, but even with the limited amount of benchmarks for other applications, I think it's safe to say we can't expect miracles at this point.
To see a significant increase in performance over the '08 models, even the 2.8 Octo, one needs to get the top-of-the-line 2.93 Ghz Octo, or at least the 2.66 Octo, with lots of RAM and the obligatory HDD setup optimizations for most pro applications.
Even then , one has to spend about 50-100% more money for a performance gain of 0-50%, depending on one's programs and projects.
Users with a light workload are not likely to see any gains at all - this update is not like going from a Dual G5 to an Octo Intel MP .
And most bugs and compatibility issues aren't known yet.
My guess is, sometime next year there'll be a more affordable revision with slighly better specs, hopefully a case design adjusted to Nehalem (or successor), cheaper and larger RAM sticks, a by then stable Snow Leopard and a bunch of applications optimized for both the OS and new hardware .
Then we can talk progress - imho.
Exactly. The MP08 is just plain a better value, and ANY of them can be expanded to 32GB without dropping thousands of dollars on RAM. That's more future-proofing than 10 or 20 percent better processor performance. Or at least that's my take on it.
Apparently you haven't actually read Lloyd's entire multi-page article/review. I figured as much. No offense intended, but I'll take his opinion over yours.
It's still better than 08.
Not at all crippled for my purposes. Rock on.
What is it with people here NOT actually READING THE REVIEW before they go spouting off? Lloyd's review includes MANY benchmarks other than Photoshop. Sheesh Almighty.
Get back to us with your revised opinion after Snow Leopard's out and 4GB RAM prices have dropped, as they will. Future-proofing? Where's your hyper-threading and Turbo Boost? Huh huh huh?!
Seriously, it's very easy for me to see BOTH sides of this debate. I myself was "this close" to scarfing up an MP08 when the MP09s first came out. But by now I'm at the point where my MP09 (8-core 2.26) is set to arrive tomorrow. I thought (and thought and thought) things through, and tried to make the best choice for my own particular needs, desires, and budget. Remember gang, this isn't really a d*ck-waving contest, right? Right? Right?
Same to me .. just ordered a refurbished 2008 Octo 2.8 from Apple Store HK .. and it will arrive my home probably tomorrow evening~
I can see the grim reaper once snow leopard ships and truly unlocks the nehalem's ability to whoop ass!
I guess people who are truly on the fence about an 08 or a 09 model, just wait until snow leopard is released, the 2.8GHz 8 core model will be easily had on eBay for $1500 as there will be massive amounts dumped on there.
I guess people who are truly on the fence about an 08 or a 09 model, just wait until snow leopard is released, the 2.8GHz 8 core model will be easily had on eBay for $1500 as there will be massive amounts dumped on there.
LOL... Snow Leopard isn't suddenly going to turn old-school single-threaded code into efficient multi-threaded wonder code. It will only make it easier for developers to make multi-threaded apps... something which they all could have been doing for years now (albeit with more effort), but in many cases can't, won't, or it just doesn't make sense for their app. Honestly, OpenCL and utilizing the highly parallel architecture of GPU's for suitable tasks actually holds more promise for significant performance improvements... GPU's have upwards of hundreds of cores from this perspective.
Yes it will turn old school single threaded code into efficient multithreaded core, thats the whole main purpose of snow leopard!
Just read the vague information about snow leopard. It seems to be finally be able to utilize every ounce of your cores + memory.
http://www.apple.com/macosx/snowleopard
“Grand Central,” a new set of technologies built into Snow Leopard, brings unrivaled support for multicore systems to Mac OS X. More cores, not faster clock speeds, drive performance increases in today’s processors. Grand Central takes full advantage by making all of Mac OS X multicore aware and optimizing it for allocating tasks across multiple cores and processors. Grand Central also makes it much easier for developers to create programs that squeeze every last drop of power from multicore systems.
OpenCL is great and all BUT one word, Grand Central. Especially with 2x faster memory on the nehalem's architecture + QPI. It'll be a difference of night and day between the 08 and 09 mac pros.
You seem to think the MP 08 isn't actually able to handle multi threaded apps properly.
Hint: most of the optimizations happening in SL will affect the 08 as much as the 09.
In fact, there's a good chance it'll be more optimized for the 08, as it typically takes a while for compilers to catch up with added instructions.
No, the 08 8 core models will handle everything properly and still be a beast of their own. But I'm just saying that if your considering to buying a new mac pro, get the nehalem model because it will be a difference in night and day between the two once snow leopard ships.
Apple knows nehalem was coming and its still what anywhere from 4-6 months before it hits. And to me it seems that snow leopard's main purpose was to really fully utilize the new architecture nehalem.
Its just that 08' models will be faster than what they are now of course but the new nehalems will be MUCH faster than the 08 models. Simple as that.
No, the difference won't be all that big.
Feel free to return to this thread once SL hits and laugh at me if I'm wrong.
Ask anyone who's managed to get a beta seed up and running.
Beta thats about 6 months away, uh huh. And have the beta testers run SL on a nehalem system yet and compare them with the 08 model? Naw.
Just wait until the final product is out and once apps fully utilize the nehalem architecture. I'm hoping that your ready to put your mac pro on eBay in about 4-6 more months.
Beta 6 months away? What?
There are several fresh betas available.
All signs point to a June RTM.
We're approaching the end of March, so the golden copy hits in less than three months.
i have, quadcore benefits from all 8 filled, while octo so far slows down a bit. (And sl wont change thatApparently you haven't actually read Lloyd's entire multi-page article/review. I figured as much. No offense intended, but I'll take his opinion over yours.
It's still better than 08.
>> for jjahshik)no offence taken.
i didnt say its bad, i said it should have 12 slots heheh.
********. the nehalem/octo core is not THAT different when it comes to multithreading.
Quadcore nehalem handles only as much threads as OCTO 08!
+ snow leo doesnt even work on SL yet...
Of course the 09 will be faster! They are NEW computers! How could they bi slower? but they wont be MORE faster than 08's! snow leopards purpose was to UTILIZE multicore systems that apple started building even before Penryn, not only for nehalem...
and Nehalems are as much multicores as are the 08 Octos...
whats to utilize about nehalem architecture? you have 16 virtual cores, once you get the Multithreading right it benefits all multithreading capable systems (that includes even the 06 octo!), nehalem architecture is mainly about memory throughput which is "utilized" by the hardware itself. its still 8 cores ticking at a certain speed
BTW, turbo is as old as PC is, i still have a 286 box with Turbo button on the front... he he heh... it boosts from 4 mhz to 6 or something like that.
Get back to us with your revised opinion after Snow Leopard's out and 4GB RAM prices have dropped, as they will. Future-proofing? Where's your hyper-threading and Turbo Boost? Huh huh huh?!
Seriously, it's very easy for me to see BOTH sides of this debate. I myself was "this close" to scarfing up an MP08 when the MP09s first came out. But by now I'm at the point where my MP09 (8-core 2.26) is set to arrive tomorrow. I thought (and thought and thought) things through, and tried to make the best choice for my own particular needs, desires, and budget. Remember gang, this isn't really a d*ck-waving contest, right? Right? Right?
I didn't say the MP08 was a flat-out better computer. I said it was a better value, and if I didn't say it, I will say it now--that means FOR ME, for me and my wife's needs, which is mostly Photoshop.
Right now the octo-09's are expensive, unless you go for the 2.26 octo, and since Snow Leopard hasn't revolutionized the entire world yet, I still care a lot about single thread performance.
So, I totally agree that it all depends on your needs, desires, budget. And I don't think I did any flaming or outrageous baiting or made any sort of absolute statements to indicate otherwise. Either the MP08 or the MP09 is a great machine! I mean, seriously!
The main problem, is that it's hard to compare the baseline 08 against the baseline 09 quad. If you don't really need much memory, then the 09 quad is maybe a great value! And for $500 more you can get the 2.93 GHz model. I do appreciate that. But for our uses, 8GB of memory just doesn't offer enough. It would be fine for the next two or three years probably, but for various reasons it might not be after that, as my wife gets more and more into digital photography and big RAW files and software requirements on hardware increase. I just don't feel comfortable with an 8GB limit. I'm sorry if that offends anyone. I'm not trying to be unreasonable or anything. I just seriously think that in 5 years I will be glad to be able to have the option for 32GB.
To get around this I would need to go to the octo MP09 models, and the performance to price ratio just isn't as good.
Perhaps I made a mistake in getting the MP08 octo 2.8GHz. I'm far from certain it was absolutely the right choice for us, but I'm as certain as I can be right now, and if it was a mistake it was a small one--in the sense that the MP08 will still be good enough for us for many years to come. Yeah, maybe I will look back in a year or two and say "Aw man, I coulda shoulda woulda gotten a MP09." But it won't cause me to lose any sleep and it will only be a passing sort of "Oh well, you try to make the best call you can, and then just move on. Sometimes you're on the money; sometimes you're not."
The MP08 is a proven entity and I know I will be happy with it and that it will meet our needs. The MP09 quad is not proven, especially in the sense of whether or not you can use 4GB DIMM's, and so I'm not sure it will meet our needs. And the octo's are just too expensive for our budget.
digilloyd's review had great relevance for me since photoshop is the main thing this computer will be used for. Yes, as software is rewritten I'm sure the picture will change, but I don't like to make those kinds of bets on a $2000+ investment.
Just one man's take on things. YMMV.
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