Apple hired people from Masimo. Possibly they didn't know where the line was. OTOH, Apple prolly has more patent lawyers than any other type so they should have caught it.
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Disabled US Blood Oxygen Function [MERGED]
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Wasn’t it more than simply hiring a few people though? Didn’t Apple executives hold meetings with people at masimo in talks for licensing but then went around and hired a bunch of their employees and developed the exact same technology? Then when the ceo of masimo tried to talk to Apple about a deal, they ghosted him? It looks….pretty planned out. I don’t think they just missed it
Ah, I didn't know that. Looks like Apple is going to have to develop their own tech or remove the feature. It's been a while so I don't know if Nellcor is up to the job.
Yup.
Let's just say that the actions of one individual don't paint them in a flattering light, and better due diligence on Apple's part could have avoided this path.
OTOH, it could also have been a calculated risk, and making sausages that way still attracted a lot of diners who were satisfied. And still are, at least outside the U.S.
For me the O2 sensor is a non issue, in two years the only time I have used it was at a doctors office to check the accuracy of a finger cuff result that was done.
As I have more than one Apple Watch, I have access to one with the sensor should I ever need it.
As I have more than one Apple Watch, I have access to one with the sensor should I ever need it.
It was a big item during Covid. But most people don't need to know their blood O2 on a routine basis. I can see my AW9 taking it on its own every once in a while but I'm not doing it myself.
Two other alternatives, neither terribly useful: keep your pre-ban watch, if you have one, or wait until 2028
when the relevant patent expires, assuming Masimo doesn't obtain another patent that effectively extends the current expiration date.The problem with most watches sold before the import ban is that you end up having to choose between the blood oxygen sensor and the latest features, like sleep apnea detection. I think the Ultra 2 is the only watch sold before the import ban that will get the latest features and (depending on when you purchased it) also retain the blood oxygen function.
The fact that Apple hasn't settled this by agreeing on a license fee with Masimo might mean that Apple doesn't think that the blood oxygen sensor is important to people buying an Apple Watch.
I don't know if it will result in a change in how Masimo handles this, but earlier this week the Masimo CEO resigned after being voted off the company's board of directors (search for "Masimo founder Joe Kiani resigns as CEO following ouster from board").
Apple likely realizes the blood oxygen sensor is somewhat of a niche feature - important to some, but not likely to significantly change the purchasing decisions for the majority of apple watch customers.
Given the alleged attitude of the former CEO towards Apple, it's possible Masimo's demands far exceeded Apple's willingness to pay.
With the new company leadership, perhaps they may come to an amicable agreement with Apple. After all, the value of the patents becomes $0 in 2028.
Edit: Masimo published the following on September 15, 2024, shortly before Masimo's annual meeting of shareholders. It's a pretty funny contrast with taking action shortly afterwards to remove him from the board and terminate his role as a senior corporate officer:
Earlier post: I hadn't seen that article. I don't know why the board got rid of him, but the shareholders should probably be suing him. He seems to have massively confused his fiduciary duty to run the corporation for the benefit of its owners with some imaginary personal quest/vendetta that p*ssed away a large amount of what probably would have been significant payments from Apple.
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C’mon Apple. Settle the patent dispute so we can have blood oxygen again.
I hope they can settle this before it’s time for me to upgrade and before I have to get a battery replacement.
Unfortunately, patent disputes can take a long time to resolve and are complex. Here’s Apple’s 916-page appeal over the Apple Watch ban (filed in April, 2024).
I just had my S6 replaced under AppleCare+ and the replacement has SPo2 enabled but, I'm hesitant to purchase a new watch until it's either confirmed the hardware is still in the watch or they settle the dispute. I believe replacement older watches will have the SPo2 enabled only if replaced under warranty (AppleCare+). If you're paying out of pocket, SPo2 will be disabled. At least that's the way I interpret the conditions of the ITC ban after reading it. Maybe someone who has paid out of pocket for a replacement for worn battery can clarify..
I always purchase AppleCare+ for my device and have opted for continued AppleCare+ for my Ultra 1, which is at 87% battery capacity. It’s 2 years old now and will probably need a battery replacement sometime next year or closer to year 4. I have a friend who had her S6 or S7 replaced and didn’t have the Sp02 sensor replaced while her husband had his sensor activated, which worries me. If I didn’t need the sensor it wouldn’t bother me as much.
It’s no longer a patent dispute at this point. Apple has already exhausted its arguments with the ITC. The latest appeal is really just a long, last ditch effort arguing to the Federal Circuit about procedural errors and the ITC overstepping its jurisdiction.
Yes, with the ITC it’s done.
No, or do you have evidence that Apple has stopped trying to invalidate the remaining patents?
What’s the purpose of this post? We’ve seen plenty posts on this topic…
Have you provided product feedback to Apple?
The final decision issued by the ITC was in October 2023 when it was determined Apple violated two of Masimo’s patents. There were only a total of five patents under dispute.
Not sure what you mean by evidence. The process and appeal for those five patents is all complete. Apple is appealing to the CAFC because there are no other patent arguments possible. It’s down to whether ITC erred in law, process, or jurisdiction.
The purpose of this post is because I just switched back to Apple from Garmin and haven’t been following this in over a year. Sorry if I offended you.
It is so stupid that I cannot use blood oxygen sensor with my S9 Apple Watch bought in US, but my wife can use it with her S9 bought in Dubai.
It is stupid. You paid for the watch, you should be able to use all of the features.
Sticking with my Series 9 just for this little feature being usable😄
I think Apple will pay the money to buy Masimo or there patents as they paid Intel $1 Billion for there portfolio of modem patents.
I believe Tim Cook is still trying to find a way around the Masimo patents just like with the Qualcomm modem fiasco.
Apple has apparently succeeded and has found a away around Qualcomm’s patents via patents from Intel and the poach hiring of modem experts from Qualcomm.
I think Tim Cook gets this settled in the next year or so and the blood oxygen will be back.
I believe Tim Cook is still trying to find a way around the Masimo patents just like with the Qualcomm modem fiasco.
Apple has apparently succeeded and has found a away around Qualcomm’s patents via patents from Intel and the poach hiring of modem experts from Qualcomm.
I think Tim Cook gets this settled in the next year or so and the blood oxygen will be back.
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