Apple Music Disappointing Atmos & How Apple Can improve this.

[Ghost-Hardware]

Oh lossless where do I begin?

Lossless is only really noticeable in certain situations in my opinion. If you have a late 90’s early 2000’s Loudness War effected CD with no dynamic range and you are just converting to listen on your phone through a pair of low - mid end headphones, then providing you don’t convert to a stupidly low bitrate or have the encoder run as fast as it can lossy should sound as good as the lossless. Compressed audio needs bitrate and time to encode. Some low bitrate lossy stuff can sound better than high bitrate lossy stuff if you have error correction and multi pass encoding turned on. Lossless wouldn’t offer too much more in this situation.

That being said I have music by a band called Opeth I am a big fan of theirs and I managed to acquire some 96Khz/24bit FLAC vinyl rips of their discography and compared to the Apple Music version its night and day the rips sound incredible. However that is not solely because of lossless although it probably helps a little, its due to vinyl having a significantly higher dynamic range compared to the digital version which Apple would’ve got their AACs from the dynamic range allows for the little nuances to shine through which are also more preserved due to the lossless encoding. Plus I’m also a sucker for the vinyl sound with the crackles and pops so that may be effecting may enjoyment of them too.

By comparison I have some 96Khz/24bit FLAC files from a band called Death and because these were ripped from a CD the dynamic range has already been crushed a bit and to my ears there isn’t a huge amount of difference between the lossy Apple Music version and the lossless files.

What you are listening for is the cymbals and the very high frequency accents of the music, a poor encode and these will sound wavy almost as if you are listening underwater. This is more noticeable if you have a high dynamic range song where these little accents aren’t drowned out by everything else. I have a few Apple Music songs that exhibit this unfortunately and when you notice it it sounds awful, so in this case this is where the lossless versions will really come into their own. However for about 90% of the time and situations you find yourself in lossy should be as good as lossless. Obviously if you are a teenager with stupidly high end studio monitors then lossless may be the way to go, but as adults loose their high frequency hearing as we get older for most lossy should be good enough.

Wow, thanks for the enlightenment ! 👍

Actually, I've never listened to high-end quality audio equipment so I can't quite argue about what you said.
I'm 32 btw and I think I can hear some slight differences between AAC and Apple's lossless format. It's something that I feel and can't explain with words. I guess of course that lossless with a high-end equipment could sound much better, however I think that I may be discerning a better quality in what I'm listening to with a lossless format, even with BT headphones. Do you think it could be possible or am I just easily influenced by marketing?

I'd gladly give an ear to these

few Apple Music songs that exhibit this unfortunately and when you notice it it sounds awful, so in this case this is where the lossless versions will really come into their own.

Would you mind sharing the names?

 

[BSben]

If you play the spatial audio playlist and then go to settings you can toggle between off and on.

Papa Roach - Last Resort is dramatic, in stereo it’s a fully produced song in Atmos it sounds like a demo track.

Here in the UK no Papa Roach songs are listed as Dolby Atmos, perhaps it is different in your country. The playlists are full of tracks that are not Dolby Atmos.

 

[Stuey3D]

Wow, thanks for the enlightenment ! 👍

Actually, I've never listened to high-end quality audio equipment so I can't quite argue about what you said.
I'm 32 btw and I think I can hear some slight differences between AAC and Apple's lossless format. It's something that I feel and can't explain with words. I guess of course that lossless with a high-end equipment could sound much better, however I think that I may be discerning a better quality in what I'm listening to with a lossless format, even with BT headphones. Do you think it could be possible or am I just easily influenced by marketing?

I'd gladly give an ear to these



Would you mind sharing the names?

So you may be experiencing better quality with the lossless files even over Bluetooth if the original Apple Music version was a poor encode, its possible that the modern Bluetooth encoder is able to feed a better signal to your headphones because it has more data to work with.

For me I had a poor copy of Black Sabbath - Paranoid which had poor cymbals and high accents, not sure if this was an Apple Music matched song or an uploaded one from iTunes Match. However there is now a lossless version which sounds far better even over Bluetooth headphones.

 

[Stuey3D]

Here in the UK no Papa Roach songs are listed as Dolby Atmos, perhaps it is different in your country.

I’m in the UK, have a look on the Spatial Audio Rock playlist, but note if you have a normal copy downloaded for offline playback it will play this version instead.

 

[kithytom]

I'm wondering if the those Atmos tracks are post-processed/rendered or mastered/recorded as Atmos at first place?

 

[drunkmouth]

I'm wondering if the those Atmos tracks are post-processed/rendered or mastered/recorded as Atmos at first place?

They were remixed into Atmos a few years ago. The vast majority were already available on Tidal and Amazon, some of the better Atmos (Beatles mainly) were available in Atmos on Blu-ray.

 

[Stuey3D]

They were remixed into Atmos a few years ago. The vast majority were already available on Tidal and Amazon, some of the better Atmos (Beatles mainly) were available in Atmos on Blu-ray.

That’s what I was getting at in my original post, it seems like most of the poor atmos mixes seem to be ran through a matrix decoder and then saved as an atmos file. You can really tell no love and attention was paid to half of these masters. The ones that sound good sound amazing, the ones that sound bad sound terrible.

It will be good if the record labels can send the 5.1 mixes they used for the DVD/BluRay albums to the team that creates the atmos files as this will be a far better listening experience.

 

[kithytom]

That’s what I was getting at in my original post, it seems like most of the poor atmos mixes seem to be ran through a matrix decoder and then saved as an atmos file. You can really tell no love and attention was paid to half of these masters. The ones that sound good sound amazing, the ones that sound bad sound terrible.

It will be good if the record labels can send the 5.1 mixes they used for the DVD/BluRay albums to the team that creates the atmos files as this will be a far better listening experience.

I find most of the "Atmos" tracks lack "clarity" and "vibrance" compare to normal stereo on my AirPods 1st Gen and AirPods Pro. On my AirPods Max the Atmos tracks sound slightly better with richer dynamics feel and noticeable "spatial" feel.

I believe it means no matter how tracks are remixed or remastered as Atmos, this technology from Dolby is legit but hardware limits its effectiveness.

In my opinion Apple should only enable Spatial Audio on AirPods Max as other AirPods family doesn't gain noticeable better listening experience, but their marketing team might have different saying.

 

[richard371]

Im not impressed with the sound quality at all with the Atmos music. It sounds better to me off. Im using the airpodes pro.

 

[krspkbl]

Very disappointed with atmos and turned it off. A few songs sound better. A fair amount sound about the same….but a little clearer. A lot sound awful. For the few that sound better I don’t think it’s worth keeping on. Majority songs sound better with it off.

good idea but it largely sucks. not for me. also lossless is useless for majority of people. If you’re listening on your iPhone/iPad speakers or AirPods you ain’t gonna hear any difference. Its good it’s there for those who can listen to it and can hear a difference.

 

[Stuey3D]

Well I’ve just tried in vain to get the raw Atmos data to my AV receiver AirPlay direct to the receiver or to the TV as above doesn’t work, and hooking up my iPad to a USB-C dock with HDMI connected direct to the receiver still only outputs 2 channel and I cannot find a way to tell the iPad to output Atmos via the dock.

This is infuriating as I have the hardware capable of playing Atmos in its full glory but due to software limitations I cannot get the audio to the hardware, and the only solution appears to be buy an Apple TV.

As I said above Apple could easily fix this by releasing Apple Music apps for smart TV’s and games consoles, and/or working with 3rd party hardware manufacturers to update Airplay to support Atmos without needing a video to accompany the audio.

However as Atmos is a free upgrade to Apple Music subscribers the incentive is not there to make these solutions, if Atmos & Hi-Res was an extra subscription on top then you can bet your bottom dollar that these solutions would be implemented very quickly as they did this for Apple TV+ when they realised nobody was subscribing in big numbers, now the Apple TV+ app appears on loads of things.

 

[Stuey3D]

Tidal Opens Up Dolby Atmos Music Streaming To Almost Any Dolby Atmos Sound System

Amazon’s Echo Studio is no longer the only Dolby Atmos Music fruit

www.forbes.com

If Tidal can do it then surely the biggest tech company on the planet can use people’s existing hardware to play these Atmos files.

 

[BSben]

I’m in the UK, have a look on the Spatial Audio Rock playlist, but note if you have a normal copy downloaded for offline playback it will play this version instead.

Many songs in those playlists are not Dolby Atmos, if you click on View Album you will see that many of them have no Dolby Atmos label, and those are the ones that sound just weird like Drive by R.E.M

 

[Stuey3D]

Many songs in those playlists are not Dolby Atmos, if you click on View Album you will see that many of them have no Dolby Atmos label, and those are the ones that sound just weird like Drive by R.E.M

The Papa Roach one did have the Atmos label when played for me, and the audio changed when Atmos was toggled in the settings.

 

[Stuey3D]

Ugh no Atmos in Windows iTunes so there goes my idea of hooking up my laptop to the TV/Soundsystem and using that for Atmos.

This seems like a really half baked service in needs of serious improvement in functionality from the poorly mastered songs to actually getting the audio to an Atmos compatible AV Receiver.

I absolutely refuse to buy an Apple TV just for Atmos music when my other devices are more than capable if Apple could be bothered to make an app for them like they did Apple TV+

 

[Kylo83]

Once again again does something I’m turning off, it ruins songs, and I produce music, once atmos is on the song sounds like a demo it’s shocking

 

[Stuey3D]

Once again again does something I’m turning off, it ruins songs, and I produce music, once atmos is on the song sounds like a demo it’s shocking

It’s really hit or miss right now, some songs sound amazing really spacious and alive and truly what Atmos is about. Others seems like the record labels really couldn’t be bothered and just chucked any old thing into a matrix decoder to make fake Atmos and then just sent it to the streaming services.

Honestly sticking to using the Atmos upmixer on my home theatres is much better right now, it can really make a convincing surround mix out of most things.

 

[Stuey3D]

Holy (insert expletive here) I’ve just experienced Atmos music how it was meant to through my 7 Speaker 2 Subwoofer home cinema and my god it’s amazing!

The thunder in Riders on the Storm is above you, and the opening to Lady Gaga - Born This Way bounces from front to rear and when it kicks into gear it full surrounds you.
EnVogue - My Lovin the harmonies are pushed to the 4 corner speakers and come from everywhere.

I could go on and list how amazing the songs are and how they’ve been improved all night but that would be a bit excessive.

So how did I manage this? I signed up for a free trial for Tidal and installed their app on my Sony Android TV quick and painless and the quality is amazing, now if Apple would release an Apple Music app for the other platforms my biggest complaint about the Atmos music would be solved instantly.

Trust me when experienced how it was meant to be via a home cinema it’s an amazing experience, and really is the next big music innovation in my opinion.

I hold out hope that Apple will release apps for Smart TV’s and Games Consoles as this will make Apple Music feel like a more complete service. Right now it’s all in its infancy so hopefully things will get better over time, Apple TV+ wasn’t available in many places at all at launch and now it’s available on loads of devices so hopefully it will be the same with Apple Music.

 

[Ledsteplin]

By comparison Heart - Alone sounds incredible in Atmos it’s more dynamic and a lot more alive especially when the overdubbed vocals kick in during the 2nd verse. The kick drum and bass is also more present too.

So it doesn’t appear to be all songs, it seems like one of their mastering engineers needs their hearing aids adjusted.

Which album? I don't see any Heart songs in Dolby Atmos.

 

[Stuey3D]

Which album? I don't see any Heart songs in Dolby Atmos.

It’s in the Spatial Audio: Rock Playlist.

 

[Stuey3D]

It’s in the Spatial Audio: Rock Playlist.

I think there are some albums that only have one or two songs in Atmos and those have been shoved into Apple’s demo playlists.

 

[seezar]

I hold out hope that Apple will release apps for Smart TV’s and Games Consoles as this will make Apple Music feel like a more complete service. Right now it’s all in its infancy so hopefully things will get better over time, Apple TV+ wasn’t available in many places at all at launch and now it’s available on loads of devices so hopefully it will be the same with Apple Music.

Apple has confirmed its coming to Android so I imagine it’ll come to even more devices.

Spatial Audio with Dolby Atmos also coming to Apple Music on Android | AppleInsider

The new Spatial Audio with Dolby Atmos feature in Apple Music will also arrive on Android sometime in the future, Apple has confirmed on its website.

appleinsider.com

 

[Stuey3D]

Apple has confirmed its coming to Android so I imagine it’ll come to even more devices.

Spatial Audio with Dolby Atmos also coming to Apple Music on Android | AppleInsider

The new Spatial Audio with Dolby Atmos feature in Apple Music will also arrive on Android sometime in the future, Apple has confirmed on its website.

appleinsider.com

I can live in hope that they port the Android App to Android TV, right now the Apple Music app is only available on Android Tablets and Phones and not TV’s shamefully.

 

[BinksterCat]

Just confirming what has mostly been written already:

• A very few tracks sound really cool which I'd want to be the default way to listen on headphones. Alone by Heart and Riders on the Storm by the Doors are good examples from the rock playlist;
• Most songs just sound a bit different. Interesting in a way, but lacking clarity - especially in rock music. Very similar to when I turn on my Dolby Surround up-mixer. So much so, that at first, I was thinking that possibly Apple's Atmos was simply on-device up-mixer. It seems like that's not actually the case (especially considering that not all music has it available), but as others have mentioned, most of the tracks just sound like the stereo master was run through a matrix up-mixer.
• Some songs, such as the Papa Roach song, sound just as unlistenable as people say. I suspect this has to do with a.) a rushed up-mix with no TLC and b.) some of the characteristics of the original mix (double-tracked vocals not center-panned, hard-panned guitars etc) that the Atmos up-mixer doesn't know how to deal with and subsequently creates terrible phase issues.
• If you're trying to A/B Atmos vs non-atmos tracks on your iPhone, you really need to turn on Sound Check. I usually don't have it on, but without it, there's no way to accurately compare atmos/non-atmos because the perceived loudness of non-atmos is considerably higher and thus sounds better. (It still does usually, but it's not quite as dramatic.)
• If you've got an AppleTV hooked up to a Atmos receiver (I have 5.1.4), you can test this stuff out a bit more accurately as it's not just simulated surround. I was skeptical at first, but when I put on Riders on the Storm (which sounds good in headphones too), it was most certainly mixed in surround (either a new mix or from an existing 5.1): thunder and rain all around/above; lead vox 100% in the center channel w/ zero bleed into R/L/rears . . and no surprise, the Papa Roach song was again terrible: lead vox mixed in center, right, and left, with phasey sounding guitars etc.

So, for me, I'll have lossless on (with wired DAC) and Atmos turned off on my iPhone. I'll probably try leaving Atmos on for the AppleTV to see what nice surprises pop up, but I'll definitely have to turn it off at times (with way too many clicks).

One question - does anyone know what the bit-rate is when selecting atmos? Sad to have to select between lossless and Atmos.

 

[BinksterCat]

So, for me, I'll have lossless on (with wired DAC) and Atmos turned off on my iPhone. I'll probably try leaving Atmos on for the AppleTV to see what nice surprises pop up, but I'll definitely have to turn it off at times (with way too many clicks).

One question - does anyone know what the bit-rate is when selecting atmos? Sad to have to select between lossless and Atmos.

I haven't gone to the trouble of measuring network traffic when streaming Atmos, so I don't know what the bit-rate on Atmos tracks are (are they confirmed to be lossy Dolby Digital Plus?) but if you've got a DAC, this can be pretty enlightening. Beatles tracks are very well known to us and have had great new multi-channel mixes and hi-res masters available, so it's a good place to start:

Listen to Come Together (2019 Mix) in three ways w/ Sound Check on. I suggest the vocal break at 1:05.

1. Lossless and Atmos off (i.e. Apple's old stream): Mastered for iTunes and sounds very good.
2. Lossless and Atmos forced on: obvious phasing on John's voice - and not in a musical effect way.
3. Atmos off and HQ lossless on: Like the old Mastered for iTunes lossy, but with added clarity and all the high frequency hiss of the original tape recordings.

I really don't need to listen to any more examples to know that #3 is my new default when listening on headphones. That said, when repeating the above 3 on my 5.1.4 surround system, this Atmos track sounded great (like Riders on the Storm). Very much like it came from a surround mix. (That album was released in 5.1 and also in lossless Atmos versions before, so who knows what we're actually hearing.)

I'm looking forward to finding more releases like that to explore on my 5.1.4. Very cool, but I'm still perplexed as to how Apple could have released some of these Atmos tracks and then promoted them on playlists! Any kid with cheap Beats headphones will be able to notice how bad they sound.