Do we need an antivirus on OS X?

[Queen6]

There is no need to "outwit" anything. All OS X malware in the wild can be successfully avoided by practicing safe computing, and there is no additional protection that antivirus apps can offer beyond that. If you want to use them, as I said before, that's up to you. They are not needed to keep OS X 100% malware-free.

It`s not all about OS X, it`s about keeping the internet a safer place for all, something you clearly disregard. In this case there is no cost for altruism.

I don't depend on xProtect, either. Even without it, safe computing has successfully thwarted every OS X malware that ever existed in the wild.

Like it or not xProtect is watching your systems, and for good reason, If Apple thought all OS X users practised "safe computing" there would be no need for xProtect, most likely the typical user and Apple have a different opinion.

I'm not denigrating anything. I'm pointing out the facts that antivirus apps are flawed in their detection rates and do not guarantee protection against malware. Safe computing alone has proven to be more effective than antivirus apps in preventing OS X malware infections, and no antivirus app increases protection beyond that available through practicing safe computing. Therefore, while antivirus apps may be employed if the user desires, it is wise not to develop a false sense of security in such apps.

A flawed detection rate is better then zero detection. As stated your working under an assumption, you have no way to validate that your systems are free from OS X and or Windows malware. You assume your systems are free from malware based on your user habits, nothing more nothing less. AV is an additional security barrier like it or not. It costs nothing in time or productivity as long as you do some research, and it works...

Q-6

 

[GGJstudios]

It`s not all about OS X, it`s about keeping the internet a safer place for all, something you clearly disregard. In this case there is no cost for altruism.

This thread is about "Do we need an antivirus on OS X?", not "Do we need an antivirus on the Internet?" It is each computer user's responsibility to protect their own computer. It is not anyone's responsibility to protect computers owned by others, nor is it possible to do so.

Like it or not xProtect is watching your systems,

I know it's there. I said I don't depend on it. My safe computing practices protected my Macs, even before xProtect ever existed.

A flawed detection rate is better then zero detection. As stated your working under an assumption, you have no way to validate that your systems are free from OS X and or Windows malware.

You have no way to validate any system is free from malware with any antivirus app. You can only validate that the app didn't detect any malware. That's not validation.

You assume your systems are free from malware based on your user habits, nothing more nothing less.

I know they are malware free because I know what OS X malware exists in the wild and I know what is required to prevent it from infecting my system. No assumption is required. Safe computing is based on facts, not assumptions.

 

[Lodesman]

In the UK my ISP (BT) offers free MacAfee Security.

Might as well have it, even if it is unlikely that I will fall foul of a virus.

I've been using it for almost a year with no problems.

 

[Queen6]

This thread is about "Do we need an antivirus on OS X?", not "Do we need an antivirus on the Internet?" It is each computer user's responsibility to protect their own computer. It is not anyone's responsibility to protect computers owned by others, nor is it possible to do so.

I know it's there. I said I don't depend on it. My safe computing practices protected my Macs, even before xProtect ever existed.

You have no way to validate any system is free from malware with any antivirus app. You can only validate that the app didn't detect any malware. That's not validation.

I know they are malware free because I know what OS X malware exists in the wild and I know what is required to prevent it from infecting my system. No assumption is required. Safe computing is based on facts, not assumptions.

More assumptions, as ever, part of the problem, not the solution...

Q-6

 

[Queen6]

In the UK my ISP (BT) offers free MacAfee Security.

Might as well have it, even if it is unlikely that I will fall foul of a virus.

I've been using it for almost a year with no problems.

Exactly it costs you nothing and helps your protect you family & friends, irrespective of OS.

Q-6

 

[SlCKB0Y]

If you're happy with 90%, that's fine. I prefer being 100% certain that my Mac is not infected with any OS X malware, because I know that none of the vectors through which infection can occur are present on my system.

This is not possible. You're assuming that OS X (or any software you run) does not, and will not ever have some sort of remotely exploitable vulnerability. Maybe i'm just being pedantic about your use of "100%"....

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No AV software has 100% detection rate
...
Therefore, an AV program is pretty much useless

"No vaccination is 100% effective, therefore vaccinations are pretty much useless"

"No condom is 100% effective at stopping pregnancy or disease, therefore condoms are pretty much useless"

I have not run, nor will I ever run antivirus on my Macs, but can you see how ridiculous your statements are?

 

[SlCKB0Y]

Apple's services aren't 3rd party software, and are far less likely to be compromised.

That's a pretty funny statement to make given the ntp vulnerabilities and the fact that Apple is unnecessarily running ntpd as root.

 

[Ethosik]

This is not possible. You're assuming that OS X (or any software you run) does not, and will not ever have some sort of remotely exploitable vulnerability. Maybe i'm just being pedantic about your use of "100%"....

----------



"No vaccination is 100% effective, therefore vaccinations are pretty much useless"

"No condom is 100% effective at stopping pregnancy or disease, therefore condoms are pretty much useless"

I have not run, nor will I ever run antivirus on my Macs, but can you see how ridiculous your statements are?

Would people stop comparing computer malware to human infections and diseases?

IT IS NOT THE SAME.

If I did not practice safe computing, of course I would need something.

If somebody does not have sex, do they need a condom 24/7? If you are going to compare computer malware to human infections and diseases, do it right.

It is impossible to avoid flu and human-like viri/diseases because we are always in contact with others that have it. There are insects that can make you sick.

So just for fun, I installed ESET cyber security and ran a full scan. Years worth of data, 6TB, and not one infection. Where are all this malware I am supposed to be getting just by being online?

 

[DJEmergency]

Simple answer to a simple question.

Question: Do you need anti-virus software?
Answer: No there is no need for it and here is why...

If a virus does open on your computer it will ALWAYS ask for a password so it has access to your system folders.

SOLUTION:

1. Click Safari -> Preferences ->

2. If you get a pop up to update Flash or Java just close them out and check to see if updates exist or not in -> System Preferences -> Flash/Java. This stops any fake updaters from going through.

3. Last but not least Click -> System Preferences... -> Security & Privacy ->

If any software asks for you to put in your system password I advise you to cancel it out UNLESS YOU'RE SURE you know the software is from a reliable source.

I really don't advise you to install or use any anti-virus software, because it can mess up your Mac file system and slow your machine down when it's not needed. There is no need for it and no need to create a non admin account if you follow the steps above.

For those that argue about viruses that can bypass your system administrator password is completely false. There is no vulnerability to do this and won't ever exist unless you put the password in yourself or give out your password to somebody else. So Stop being paranoid and enjoy your Mac!

 

[GGJstudios]

This is not possible. You're assuming that OS X (or any software you run) does not, and will not ever have some sort of remotely exploitable vulnerability.

No, I'm not assuming anything about unexploited vulnerabilities or possible future malware that doe not yet exist in the wild. It is quite possible to be certain that a Mac running OS X is completely free of all OS X malware that has ever existed in the wild, without using a 3rd party antivirus app. Nothing, including antivirus apps, can provide a guarantee that some future as-yet-unreleased malware cannot possibly infect OS X.

If a virus does open on your computer it will ALWAYS ask for a password so it has access to your system folders.

There are no OS X viruses in the wild, so you don't know if one might be developed in the future that would not require an admin password.

For those that argue about viruses that can bypass your system administrator password is completely false. There is no vulnerability to do this and won't ever exist unless you put the password in yourself or give out your password to somebody else.

Again, there has never been an OS X virus in the wild, but no one knows what might be developed in the future.

 

[Anderton]

In the UK my ISP (BT) offers free MacAfee Security.
.

During my years at one of Sweden's then largest Mac reseller, i hade customers' computers sent for service ”because” they were hit by "virus / malware / trojans".



The reason why these customers (no power users) thought it was something malicious was the fact the computer went slower and slower, and that some applications crashed.

In 8 cases out of 10, it was some the Antivirus application causing the problems. One of the major Anti Virus applications was classified as a type of "malware" by our technicians. Why?

• Used large amount of system resources even running in the background.
  
• Generated huge log files, which eventually led to lack of disk space.
  
• Installed various components without a self-explanatory name, which also remained and running even after an uninstall using the AntiVirus developer's own uninstaller.
  
• The bundled uninstallers didn't remove everything as it should
  
• Altered user permissions (which can be found in OS X log file, but not the developers own log files. This caused trouble with issues in some applications.
  
• The folder permission was changed without any warnings and affected some CLI-based applications or systems.No documentation from the Developer a all.
  
• - Writing to disk almost all the time.
  
• In the ninth case, it was faulty hardware (RAM, hard drives and so on)
  
• The tenth case, was because the customer actually had Malware. They dowloaded files from a random pirate website from Russia or China and installed with admin rights.

This was a while ago, but even if the AntiVirus developers moving forward with smashing bugs and chasing optimizations, you should know this kind of software can cause more problems than the problems it scans for. That is still the case of many of the ”AntiVirus” applications.

But, if you are satisfied and do not experience any problem, Great (and i really meant it!).

Myself is using a combo of LittleSnitch, .hosts, some terminal based tools, the routers safety functions (although they are not always that good) and common sense.

But yes, it does require a bit more of the user.

 

[USF813]

To the OP - I use Avira on my PC desktop and MacBook. For those criticizing others for using AV, knock it off. It's a personal choice for one reason or another and you need to respect that.

 

[beachmusic]

To the OP - I use Avira on my PC desktop and MacBook. For those criticizing others for using AV, knock it off. It's a personal choice for one reason or another and you need to respect that.

I agree and am using Eset for mac. Also have Little Snitch just monitoring things going in and out.

 

[Artimus12]

To the OP - I use Avira on my PC desktop and MacBook. For those criticizing others for using AV, knock it off. It's a personal choice for one reason or another and you need to respect that.

^^^This^^^

It's a personal decision based on someone's individual preference or their level of internet security experience.

The nay-sayers are being ignorant, selfish, and usually boastful by basing their advice on their own knowledge of isecurity and the issues involved - which, 9 times out of 10, isn't in any way similar to the average users' level of experience. Not everyone has the time &\or patience &\or capacity to read & understand thousands of pages of information and instructions on how to be safe whilst surfing\computing.

So it's probably safe to assume that anybody that needs to ask the question in the first place, is likely to need that extra security blanket until they fully understand, and saying "No" is the same as promoting unsafe sex to a virgin.

The nay-sayers need to get over themselves.

 

[GGJstudios]

It's a personal decision based on someone's individual preference or their level of internet security experience.

It certainly is a personal decision, which is why those claiming you need to run antivirus software are in the wrong. You may run it, if you wish, but it's not necessary to keep OS X malware-free if you practice safe computing. If you do elect to run antivirus software, you should still practice safe computing, since no antivirus app will detect 100% of OS X malware, but safe computing will avoid 100% of OS X malware in the wild.

Not everyone has the time &\or patience &\or capacity to read & understand thousands of pages of information and instructions on how to be safe whilst surfing\computing.

LOL! Understanding the steps in safe computing is not thousands of pages. If you had taken the time to actually click the links and read the safe computing tips, you would see that there are less than a dozen, most of which are simple common sense that any OS X user should easily understand.

 

[Artimus12]

It certainly is a personal decision, which is why those claiming you need to run antivirus software are in the wrong. You may run it, if you wish, but it's not necessary to keep OS X malware-free if you practice safe computing. If you do elect to run antivirus software, you should still practice safe computing, since no antivirus app will detect 100% of OS X malware, but safe computing will avoid 100% of OS X malware in the wild.

LOL! Understanding the steps in safe computing is not thousands of pages. If you had taken the time to actually click the links and read the safe computing tips, you would see that there are less than a dozen, most of which are simple common sense that any OS X user should easily understand.

You're one of the most Vocal posters against anti-virus programs, yet some of the links you've used to justify your personal stance on the subject to others, have been proven inaccurate simply by reading the content in its entirety - which you obviously didn't do yourself before posting said link (I can find the thread and post a link if you'd like) ...a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

I can't understand why you're so dead set against people taking extra precautions if it calms their fears! "You don't need an alarm on your house, it'll never be broken into" ...yea, right!

As for me; I'd not take your advice on personal internet protection if you payed me! You're opinion is just too Biased & "Sure" for my liking - call me a cynic if you want to, but I don't trust folk that are 100% certain about things that can never be 100% certain.

 

[GGJstudios]

You're one of the most Vocal posters against anti-virus programs

I'm not against anti-virus programs. I'm against people falsely claiming they are necessary to keep OS X malware free. I'm also against people putting all their faith in an antivirus app to keep their Mac malware-free, because none of the apps can assure that. There are times when antivirus apps are necessary, such as conforming to rules for access to certain networks.

some of the links ... have been proven inaccurate ...(I can find the thread and post a link if you'd like)

Yes, do post such a link.

but I don't trust folk that are 100% certain about things that can never be 100% certain.

You mean, such as trusting antivirus apps that can't be certain to protect you?

Here are a couple "100%" statements you can hang your hat on:

1. No antivirus app has a 100% detection rate.
2. Safe computing, as described many times by the tips in the FAQ I posted, has successfully protected against 100% of OS X malware that has ever existed in the wild.

 

[m4v3r1ck]

Non-techie guys/girls like me reading the last posts/pages in this thread, will realy get paranoid, like AV's are a life threatning thingy... ;-)

 

[GGJstudios]

Non-techie guys/girls like me reading the last posts/pages in this thread, will realy get paranoid, like AV's are a life threatning thingy... ;-)

Antivirus apps are not threatening.... just not completely effective.

 

[Ulenspiegel]

Getting back on track, if possible:

http://www.welivesecurity.com/2014/03/21/10-years-of-mac-os-x-malware/

http://www.eset.com/int/mac-malware-facts/

 

[S.B.G]

Mod note:

Quit the arguing!

/mod note.

 

[Ulenspiegel]

Another one:

http://www.welivesecurity.com/2013/01/31/straight-facts-about-mac-malware-threats-and-responses/#

 

[Artimus12]

Non-techie guys/girls like me reading the last posts/pages in this thread, will realy get paranoid, like AV's are a life threatning thingy... ;-)

In that case, I'd like to know who wrote your techie signature for you?

Getting back on track, if possible:

thank god someone saw fit to.

http://www.welivesecurity.com/2014/03/21/10-years-of-mac-os-x-malware/

http://www.eset.com/int/mac-malware-facts/

The second link won't open for us that don't live in the US apparently! I'm shocked and feel left out.

Another one:

http://www.welivesecurity.com/2013/01/31/straight-facts-about-mac-malware-threats-and-responses/#

interesting, but some are still sure to claim they know better than certified experts.

Thanks for posting.

 

[aquajet]

I think the OP's question is kind of a moot point as OS X already has antimalware built in, i.e. XProtect. I agree that using safe computing practices is the best thing one can do to protect oneself. But let's be realistic in that every instance, we cannot expect everyone to follow best practices when it comes to using a computer. Installing AV software is one way of compensating for this shortcoming.

I think it's also worth pointing out that Apple could do a better job of making OS X hardened better against threats out of the box. For example, they're first use wizard could walk users through creating non-administrative accounts for daily use, and the built-in GUI firewall could be enabled by default (and the GUI firewall could include more sophisticated configuration options as well).

With that said, I think GGJstudios's contention that by always following safe computing practices will result in a 100% malware-free system, or to fixate on one particular type of malware (virus) to the degree you are doing without talking seriously about others, while ignoring the very real known vulnerabilities that exist in OS X, is irresponsible. Despite all the security-related press that Apple have received in recent years, it is unconscionable that Apple still includes vulnerable versions of software in currently-supported versions of OS X (Apache comes to mind). Things like Apache, bash, ntpd, etc. are all components that are ripe for exploitation under the right circumstances and the more technically-inclined folks around here need to keep that in mind.

For those that argue about viruses that can bypass your system administrator password is completely false. There is no vulnerability to do this and won't ever exist unless you put the password in yourself or give out your password to somebody else. So Stop being paranoid and enjoy your Mac!

This is not true. The ntpd vulnerability is a recent example of how one can execute arbitrary code remotely on a Mac with root privileges. Note: it is not necessary to run ntpd as root, but Apple does it anyway. This is bad practice!

 

[Apple_Robert]

In that case, I'd like to know who wrote your techie signature for you?

thank god someone saw fit to. The second link won't open for us that don't live in the US apparently! I'm shocked and feel left out.

interesting, but some are still sure to claim they know better than certified experts.

Thanks for posting.

The two links (previously posted) are lacking in substance, and are nothing more than an advertisement for a specific software. In other words, you aren't missing anything.