I think it's time to leave the OP in quietude to find his zen and pocketbook.
No, keep it coming, I've just got back from a shoot and catching up. Good stuff. Will reply later.
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MP 7,1 Does it make sense to purchase a 7,1 Mac Pro today?
- Thread starter ghostwind
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No, keep it coming, I've just got back from a shoot and catching up. Good stuff. Will reply later.
Here’s one idea for the OP- that I wish now I had considered- to do an apple pro business leasing for three years. That way you can be sure you will be on the latest apple silicon Mac Pro when it comes out in 2022. I think the Mac Pro will give a solid performance for the next three years and then in 2023 you’ll get automatically the latest monster without having to worry about resale value.
It has the added bonus that you get the full write off during those three years- at least here in Germany I have to write off my Mac Pro over several more years if im not mistaken. the 6% business discount almost make up for the extra leasing costs.
It has the added bonus that you get the full write off during those three years- at least here in Germany I have to write off my Mac Pro over several more years if im not mistaken. the 6% business discount almost make up for the extra leasing costs.
This seems the most sensible option if @ghostwind wants to stay on a Mac. It avoids the horrific upfront cost of the MP and gives enough time to see what Apple's offerings for pro customers will be in the future, while giving the option to offload the Intel tech at the end of the lease period if necessary.
I'm not familiar with this offering from Apple. I'm looking into it.
Can you summarise what it means to be in this program. I'm assuming there is no change of hardware during the leasing period, but you mean that once the contract is up: 24/36 months or whatever, you would just jump to the latest and greatest?
Having had my Mac Pro deliver like a champ this week, I would actually say just get one. Hook up a monitor of your choice and then just get to work.
I probably would go for a sensible spec, like a 16-core, aftermarket ram and a 5700XT / single Vega II and let it be a workhorse for two years. After that time, see what the Apple Silicon Mac Pro has to offer and switch to that if you want.
The simple fact is, whatever you get won't be the best for long... but it will work.
It also currently doesn't make sense to get a high-spec machine as Premiere Pro hardly uses any of it (my system sits 80% idle even exporting), so there's no point in going big if that's all you use.
Resolve uses most of it and absolutely rips... very fun if you can move at least part of your work over to it.
I guess the issue would be solved if the AS Mac Pro were available now, but it's not, so get on with it lol.
Also Windows feels gross and everyone know it.
I probably would go for a sensible spec, like a 16-core, aftermarket ram and a 5700XT / single Vega II and let it be a workhorse for two years. After that time, see what the Apple Silicon Mac Pro has to offer and switch to that if you want.
The simple fact is, whatever you get won't be the best for long... but it will work.
It also currently doesn't make sense to get a high-spec machine as Premiere Pro hardly uses any of it (my system sits 80% idle even exporting), so there's no point in going big if that's all you use.
Resolve uses most of it and absolutely rips... very fun if you can move at least part of your work over to it.
I guess the issue would be solved if the AS Mac Pro were available now, but it's not, so get on with it lol.
Also Windows feels gross and everyone know it.
Not sure if Apple offers this directly, but here's an example of a well-known UK company who do Apple leasing: https://www.hardsoftcomputers.co.uk/
Normally you either do a straightforward lease where you return the Mac at the end of term and swap for a new model, carrying on the lease agreement, or pay to own it at the end.
Thanks! Yes, I think I've seen offerings from other companies. I was curious if Apple did their own thing.
Yes they do their own thing! I suppose you call the local Apple store in your country and ask for a pro sales representative. I initially ordered my Mac Pro through the business hotline but then got a call from a guy in the local store in Berlin who wanted me to cancel and re-do the order through him. He also invited me to the store and gave me a one hour tour of the machine and display. Since then he’s my buddy and go to guy for all Apple questions, we’re even texting sometimes, it’s hilarious!
he offered me all the leasing options and I did that with one XDR- as with any car leasing you either just start a new leasing contract after the two/three/four years or you buy out the device at the end with one final payment.
Aren’t you from Switzerland? I don’t know how it works over there but check out the German offering: https://www.apple.com/de-business/shop/browse/finance/lease
my guy at the store also had other options to configure the leasing.
Exactly. Like I said- now I wish I had done the same and used the money that I had to dump on the Mac Pro instead to put it into an ETF or bitcoins before this pandemic ? while using my monthly rates to pay it off... in the same time those 12k would’ve paid of the machine by themselves. Damn
Yes, thanks. I'll keep it in mind. I traditionally just buy my stuff normally, but it's good to know what's out there.
At least I hope you’re not forgetting about the 6% business discount that apple gives
And you can sign up your business over the phone.... in any country that Apple sells in ~At least I hope you’re not forgetting about the 6% business discount that apple gives
And this is the point. I'm not looking for a machine who's sole purpose is to run Premiere. If that were the case, a PC would be the easy choice perhaps. While I'm invested in Premiere for now and 2-3 upcoming projects, for reasons I mentioned, that's not to say I will not look into Resolve, which is becoming better at editing and more widespread in use (and clearly better for grading). In fact I just graded some stuff in Resolve last night, exported from Premiere, to play around with and get my feet wet. So it's not that simple as one benchmark, though I can be guilty of looking at it that way too, because it's easy to. Reality is more complex. I use many programs, photo, video, and I just prefer macOS.
I've been playing on Windows 10 PCs for the past few days, as I was leaning that way for the speed. And while for sure many things have improved, just dealing with it makes me a bit queasy, as it looks and feels like where I left of years ago. We are in 2021 almost, and still I'm scripting around with the "C:\"....Ugh. So this experience from the past few days playing around has made me realize it will be hard for me to deal with this crappy OS.
So back to Mac. Looking for deals on the Mac Pro, not finding much. I do know about leasing as an option, thanks.
As a reminder, here's the config I'm looking at (from my first post):
2019 Mac Pro, 16 core, 96GB RAM, Radeon Pro Vega II, and 1TB SSD
In addition, I would get the Promise Pegasus R4i, and and OWC 4TB internal PCI SSD. I would use that super-fast OWC SSD to work off of, and then back up and keep projects the R4i (as well as external backups and cloud of course).
The only thing that's changed is thinking about the Vega II vs the 5700 or even a duo 5700.
However, there IS a second option, and I believe I mentioned it before. Limp around for the next year or so with what I have, and invest money into more gear I need for filming. I can get by, it will be sucky, but I can do it if I have to. And I'll reevaluate it all a year from now.
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I guess it could become frustrating to decide to with a used Mac Pro 7.1 and to wait for the right one to show up. We're still not in the phase where people are giving them away.
So, are you on a 2019 MacBook Pro now?
What happened to your camera plans? I'm very familiar with Canon's Cinema Line if you want to talk about that. But that might be too of topic, even though I guess you as the OP gets the vote. But it sounded to me like the "fast track" to go from being photo based and then starting out with video and jumping onto a C500 mkII at once. Not that it's bad in any way. Just mildly fascinating.
Yep, 2019 maxed out MBP - could get an eGPU if the software would use it to keep it going for a bit longer. Unsure how well Premiere would use the eGPU. Need to look more. But that could help the limping for a bit for sure.
I've been a Canon photographer for a very long time, so invested into their lenses, system, etc. And I like them. When I started with video, I used the C100MKII, a great HD camera that I love. On my last project, I needed more wiggle room to punch in post, for stabilizing crop, 10bit would have helped grading, etc. and looking down the road, I will need a 4K+ camera for 4K delivery as well - the demand, right or wrong, is happening. It's OK, because I charge more as well in return
I prefer FF, hence the C500. 6K sensor has more wiggle room for proper 4K delivery. C300MKIII is nice too, and S35 DGO sensor is very nice, but my lenses and DOF and math and all that are based around FF. For 4K delivery, again, no wiggle room with 4k sensor. I suspect Canon will come out with a C90 FF to compete with Sony FX6, and that can be a great B-Cam to a C500. TBH, if I wasn't so invested in EF Canon glass, I would get the Sony FX9 and FX6 combo for the price of C500MKII almost. So that's the story in a nutshell.
I can relate.
After taking my first steps in photography with a Powershot G2, I wanted more flexibility and aimed for a DSLR. I had thought I was going to get like the entry level 'Original Rebel' but found them to small for my hands. So, a 20D it was.
That became a 5DmkII, that got an Anti Aliasing drop-in filter, that became a 5DmkIII that stayed while I got a C100, since I wanted to do both film and photo. But then I felt I didn't want two cameras but a true hybrid so those two became a Canon Cinema EOS 1Dc (at launch). When I close my eyes I can still see the red badge on that 1D body. The 1Dc stayed as a backup body as I got my 1Dx mkII. That is what I still got as primary camera.
Then, watching the film camera market explode, and playing with various files, brands and ideas, I made a somewhat reasonable choice and felt that I wouldn't invest large amounts in that camera since I felt that any production/project would budget for rental for whatever was suitable for the occasion. That said, I'm actually a huge fan of owning one's camera and to know it inside and out. I totally get the decision to be an owner operator.
When Blackmagic launched the Pocket 4K I tried that, used a Speedbooster but wasn't a fan of needing an adapter. I moved up to the Pocket 6K and I'm a huge fan. It's what I use for 'personal video'. It's a 1:1 match for my lens collection, but as you know, I can't take advantage of the whole image circle. I'm hoping for Blackmagic to update it to RF-mount and FF.
I'm liking the C70 in the current lineup for price/performance, but the C500 mkII is of course a beast.
As someone who has the C300 MIII, that DGO sensor is really quite nice. It's actually the reason I went with it over the C500 MII (FF but based on the previous generation of sensors). The noise performance on the C300 was looking better as the ISO went up. Super clean camera.
But just like the Mac Pro purchase, I'm trying to hold onto these for the next 6-8 years and just keep making great stuff with them!
But just like the Mac Pro purchase, I'm trying to hold onto these for the next 6-8 years and just keep making great stuff with them!
I don't think anyone can go wrong with any of the different camera offerings out there TBH, as they are all very, very good. It simply depends on what tool you need for what you do (narrative, documentary, run & gun, a mix, commercial, etc.). Do you need XLR inputs? AF? PL mount? The list goes on, and everyone's needs are different. I have, and will continue to rent cameras for specialty one-off projects, but for my main workhorse, I want to own it so I can know the ins and outs of it like the back of my hand. It helps. I do rent lenses often, but for me that's quite different. @PowerMike G5 - don't worry, these cameras will last. People worry too much IMHO about cameras getting outdated - HD still rules the world, look at stuff shot on Arri 2K still. It's like the MP wars with DSLRs - after a point, you no longer care or need more. Same will be with video cameras. Focus more on pixel quality, etc. Since a lot can now be done in grading, I also don't worry too much about the Canon look vs the Sony look, and stuff like this. I think, as I was saying, the Sony FX9/FX6 are superb cameras. I just don't have the lenses.
@AndreeOnline I started with Canon cameras with the 1V film. Then the 10D, 1D, 5D, 1DX, etc. I'm still on the 1DXII and 5D4, as the 1DXIII didn't offer much for me for stills TBH to upgrade to. I'll wait for the 1DX RF MILC before upgrading and slowly moving to RF. The R5 let me down - IMHO they should have made 2 cameras and split up the stills from the video. I also prefer larger bodies, as ergonomics are very important. Sonys have amazing IQ, but it's hard for me to work with the small buttons, balance the tiny bodies with large glass, etc. One camera I'm interesting in is the Fuji GFX100 for getting unique looks.
Yeah, this talk can go on forever, but back to the main point.
What do Mac Pro users think about what I was saying above - Pro Vega II vs 5700 or 2 x 5700s?
@AndreeOnline I started with Canon cameras with the 1V film. Then the 10D, 1D, 5D, 1DX, etc. I'm still on the 1DXII and 5D4, as the 1DXIII didn't offer much for me for stills TBH to upgrade to. I'll wait for the 1DX RF MILC before upgrading and slowly moving to RF. The R5 let me down - IMHO they should have made 2 cameras and split up the stills from the video. I also prefer larger bodies, as ergonomics are very important. Sonys have amazing IQ, but it's hard for me to work with the small buttons, balance the tiny bodies with large glass, etc. One camera I'm interesting in is the Fuji GFX100 for getting unique looks.
Yeah, this talk can go on forever, but back to the main point.
What do Mac Pro users think about what I was saying above - Pro Vega II vs 5700 or 2 x 5700s?
I chose the Pro Vega II Duo because that was what was show~cased at the Apple WWDC rollout of the 7,1
And I was sure that they would not do this unless they had confidence in its performance of the kind.
This now allows for an available MPX slot. Don't need more than two GPU for editing. Its been as they call, overkill, but also future proofed. It is a very stable GPU system. There has never been a 'kernel panic' on the computer.
They also demonstrated the Afterburner Card and since we use multiple camera shots in 4k to 6k (sometimes) and we also use ProRes (and proxy), I ordered it too. Its like voodoo because I can't tell, and the editors can't tell, the load it is picking up. All I can say is that use of ProRes files is smooth and never dropped frames in playback.
I like to be able to see the desktop of the 7,1 and quickly assess the files in use for a project. That is why i didn't hesitate to up the Apple ssd to max. When commercials are being produced, the upload and maneuverability of files 'within sight' is fast and efficient. These are retransferred to external drives when the project is completed. The Apple ssd (T2) is 'fast enough'.
GPU works fine in Adobe CC and Davinci. Fully compatible with applications.
>++<
The Vega Pro II Duo is a very Mac Pro-y card. It's amazing to get two Vega II 32GB, connected via 'Infinity Fabric' in a single MPX bay. I'll take one of those, please... Do you have a spare OkiRun? I'll pay for postage.... ?
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Bang for $, you get the best deal with a W5700X 16GB. It's a good performer but not quite as strong as a Vega II 32GB. In 3D rendering in Blender with AMD's ProRender a single W5700XT is faster than a Vega II and two X5700XT are twice as fast—and still cheaper. But this is for a simple scene where we're looking at computational power. I haven't seen any convincing tests where the huge RAM advantage would come into play for the Vega II.
But building a 7.1 I think there is the "architectural angle" as well. As mentioned above, the Vega II Duo only uses one MPX slot and packs all that power in there. You can buy two W5700XTs and still come out cheaper than a single Vega II, but you'll use up two MPX slots. You'll get a bunch of Thunderbolt 3 ports on the back at the cost of blocking more of the PCIe slots.
If you are doing video work with a node setup that saturates the GPUs, like multiple noise reduction nodes, you'll get literally twice the performance with dual W5700XTs for less $ than a Vega II. Personally, that is more of a theoretical use case. But the same might be said for saturating the 16GB of a W5700XT and "praising" the 32GB of the Vega II.
All considered, buying from directly, I'd go with a W5700XT today. It provides balanced performance and will set you back significantly less. But before that, I'd feverishly try to find information whether or not we might see a new MPX module based on the 6800-series. Ideally, would launch that and then you buy one of those.
Finally, my 'used' 7.1 had a Vega II 32GB. I was very happy to see that. So, given the choice between a W5700XT and a Vega II 32GB and we pretend we could choose without the price penalty, I'd go with the Vega II. That might seem like a 'Duh!' statement, but I'm leaning towards newer generation cards if possible. But in this case, the Vega II is a wee bit stronger, and it has the nice 32GB of RAM and I do 3D work and in larger scenes with lots of high-res textures that is nice.
The Vega Pro II Duo is a bit much, the 5700 newer but slower, and the Vega Pro II probably the sweet spot for my use.
@AndreeOnline Yeah, I thought about the 6800/6900 a while back, and if/when will Apple bring one out in MPX form. If so, the 5700 now is the better choice, from a replacement POV, as if Apple does make one, it will be months before it's available, and I need to purchase end of this month.
Found this interesting video last night.
@AndreeOnline Yeah, I thought about the 6800/6900 a while back, and if/when will Apple bring one out in MPX form. If so, the 5700 now is the better choice, from a replacement POV, as if Apple does make one, it will be months before it's available, and I need to purchase end of this month.
Found this interesting video last night.
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Had a lot of potential, but too much Spider-Sense going off watching it. Not saying everything is the fault of the reviewer, but the flawed visualisations land firmly in his lap (Jesus!).
Are the drivers flakey? Have I not read about that concerning these cards?
Resolve Free has a few limitations, including being limited to 1 GPU.... so that is not optimal for benchmarking multiple... ?
Anyway... Barefeats has a few tests since a while back. I guess you're familiar with that?
No, just looked at it now. So seems 2 x 5700 cards are better than the Pro Vega II, and $800 cheaper. Yes, you lose one full slot - the tradeoff. Resolve will use the 2 cards well. Premiere probably not as much. Like I was saying, for now need to figure it out, as Apple won't be out with any 6800 MPX modules for months I feel.