Does the Surface Book have any one second thinking the iPad Pro?

[pat500000]

Yes MS won me over with their new Surface Book. The name is stupid though.
I will sell my 15" rMBP and buy the SB once it's available in the UK. I've been through A LOT of apple products. And I love my iPhone the most. iPad was pretty boring from day one. And the "new" iPad Pro is a big let down from Apple. I don't like the direction they are going. It's form over function taken to the extreme. Apple was always careful to its presentation, but there was real "substance" under the hood. Nowadays... not so much. The Apple Watch is a flop. The new OS, Watch OS2 is a flop. My guess is that the iPad Pro will be a flop too. I worry about Apple, mostly because I love my iPhones so much and I'm scared that the future models will be boring.

Facts please. I don't know where you get the idea watch os flopped...and iPad pro will flop.
I don't like apple watch..but when you speak on something that may challenged...you need to say with proof. It it's an opinion..then i would understand that, however, you need to say, "I think.." or "IMO."

 

[creativeguy504]

Facts please. I don't know where you get the idea watch os flopped...and iPad pro will flop.
I don't like apple watch..but when you speak on something that may challenged...you need to say with proof. It it's an opinion..then i would understand that, however, you need to say, "I think.." or "IMO."

It's pretty obvious when someone states something as an opinion. There's no need to preface it with an "IMO", etc. For example, when someone says "the new iphone is much better than the new galaxy s", that's pretty obvious that's simply that person's opinion.

That being said, the surface book seems to be a monster of a computer. Only time will tell how well it actually performs in real life, but so far, it appears promising. While I do like my iphone and ipad, I would love to check out the surface book. Definitely right up my alley.

 

[rowspaxe]

Think about how often you will actually use the surface book in tablet form. And then what do you do with that big keyboard you left behind?

alot!

Its a 13.5 " drawing surface, set at a desirable angle when reverse attached to the keyboard. Whats driving these products is the pen. Get a clue

 

[rowspaxe]

The discrete GPU is in the keyboard base, therefor no dGPU in tablet mode - that is, when the screen is not attached.

it uses internal intel graphics in tablet mode, nvidia discrete graphics in laptop mode(s)

 

[rowspaxe]

I've always thought a tablet, or just any big touch screen device, is not supposed to be running a full-blown OS.

Based on what? Ios? But what if there are additional possibilities? Why does a tablet have to be linked exclusively to a phone os?

 

[pat500000]

It's pretty obvious when someone states something as an opinion. There's no need to preface it with an "IMO", etc. For example, when someone says "the new iphone is much better than the new galaxy s", that's pretty obvious that's simply that person's opinion.

That being said, the surface book seems to be a monster of a computer. Only time will tell how well it actually performs in real life, but so far, it appears promising. While I do like my iphone and ipad, I would love to check out the surface book. Definitely right up my alley.

Well, to you, it's obvious, but for me it wasn't.
I totally agree with you on the tablet. It seems that MS is actually stepping up and I like that. I just wish they would do that with their MS office apps.

 

[Peepo]

alot!

Its a 13.5 " drawing surface, set at a desirable angle when reverse attached to the keyboard. Whats driving these products is the pen. Get a clue

What you are describing is not what I was referring to as tablet mode. I meant with the screen disconnected. I was saying how I would rather have multiple devices rather than one combo device.

 

[rkuo]

I just tried the pen on the native FreshPaint app on the Surface Book. Either the app isn't updated or the pen totally sucks. 1024 levels of pressure ... not a chance.

 

[Smeaton1724]

The Surface Book is a good thing for the market, Apple need to look at the competition and devise something to blow them away. The last 10 years the laptop/tablet space has been Apple design dominated, everyone takes something from them, keyboard key type, aluminium finish, thinness, etc etc.

Apple have seen the early introduction's of hybrid tablet/laptops and dismissed them, if that type of machine takes off Apple will have to react with their own. Personally I like having multiple devices - Macbook, iPad and iPhone, I just wish there was more support for cross app purchasing between OSX and iOS. OSX is becoming a developer vessel for iOS devices without getting great app support itself, yet it is more mature and powerful.

 

[Newtons Apple]

We have two SP3s in the house and to me they are more of a laptop replacement than a tablet. As a tablet, they're not really competitive with something like the Air 2 (or the iPad Pro, presumably). On the other hand, the iPad Pro doesn't look like a laptop replacement to me at all, just a huge tablet, and not competitive with the SP3 or SP4. Nothing much of significance here except explaining my post, and YMMV. However, since MS sells the _Surface_ with a cell modem, my hunch is that they think of the SP3 (and 4) as laptop replacements (although that leaves open the question which bucket you put the SurfaceBook into - "convertible" laptop, I guess?).

Looks like my bucket will be full of 5-6 Surface Pro 4 units.

 

[sjleworthy]

the SP range is an awesome thing, even though personally, i think the aesthetic stinks. but it is lap top territory.
but why would i want an SP tablet when a similarly sized (and much more powerful) laptop will suffice?

the IPP on the other hand isnt. it's not a laptop replacement as far as production work goes on the whole. its a huge ipad. a media centre. but to me this is awesome. fantastic. this is how i'll be treating it and i'll be happy about it. it can still deal with industry standards and work flows, but its an ipad, and must be treated with this respect.

I cant wait.

 

[iTom17]

Based on what? Ios? But what if there are additional possibilities? Why does a tablet have to be linked exclusively to a phone os?

It doesn't have to be linked exclusively to a phone OS, but neither to a desktop OS. Remember what Steve said about iPad? It's better than a smartphone, and it's better than a notebook. And a touch screen device with a desktop OS just doesn't work. Partly because it is made for the mouse (even though Windows 10 offers a special tablet mode that makes stuff a little bigger and more touch friendly), but also because it should be simple and clean.

I love Windows 10 on my notebook. But not on a tablet. I have tried the Surface Pro 3 once, and it does not feel like a tablet at all. To me, it feels more like a notebook with just a giant touch display, with the keyboard being optional.

Same thing with Android. Don't like it as a mobile OS, but I think it would be interesting as a simple desktop OS like any Linux distribution. That's my view of it.

 

[Serban]

The pen latency is bigger than pencil. Engaged wrote.
Surface book in tablet mode last only 3 h of usage, in laptop mode 12h of browsing the web wo dgpu
the keyboard of ipad pro is between surface pro 4 keyboard and surface book

 

[coolman1008]

At the moment I have a Surface pro 3 and a type keyboard for university. But the pen sometimes doesn't work, i already have the fifth tablet because it always breaks down, then as soon as I take notes for more than ten minutes the fan is loud. So I will switch to the iPad pro, I don't need the power of an I5 or a laptop, I have my iMac at home for that.

 

[newellj]

Looks like my bucket will be full of 5-6 Surface Pro 4 units.

Microsoft is all of a sudden a company to watch - again, after a couple of decades. The quality of hardware and software coming out of MS now is really top notch.

 

[Nebrie]

And the tablet (non-desktop) apps are god-awful. Yes, it runs Windows 8/10 but without a keyboard/trackpad/mouse/stylus it's impossible to navigate with one's finger.

This is exactly it. If you have a full stable of legacy apps (PC app development is pretty much dead. 0 PC software startups vs 1000s of mobile startups in the last 10 years) and need touch to make scrolling or drawing work easier, AND you don't really care about touch under any other circumstances (because the Windows 10 app store is almost as barren as the Mac app store. Microsoft has no touch ecosystem unlike Apple) then the Surface is for you.

The problem for Microsoft is that, people like that are a vanishing market. PCs are less than 20% of the total personal computing market now and Apple with Macs owns only 5% of that 20% (1% of the overall computing market). If you're a company with a finite number of engineers to work on projects, do you throw them at making products for the shrinking part of the computing market where you own 1% or the one where you own over 20% and is rapidly growing? Yes, Apple will lose a few fanboys, but for every fanboy it loses, it gains 10 new ones (see: post-keynote angry Apple reactions, last 15 years vs revenue charts during that period).

"Oh but that's just a toy. You can't do real work on an iPad"

Well, exactly what 'work' do you do then? Once you step outside of the tech bubble, very few people have as their job description "Make Powerpoint files" or "Make Excel spreadsheets". They have "make sales pitches" and "client proposals". If your client proposal is automatically generated from backend cloud applications with a few local inputs, why do you need a mouse and keyboard to do that? You're already seeing this type of behavior with the under-20 crowd even if it drives older people insane watching them peck away at a glass screen. Tools don't define how you do your job. Your job defines how you use your tools.

Apple is focused on building the future. And if you're part of the shrinking group of users angry that Apple is focusing so much time on iOS instead of propping up backwards-compatibility with the past, Steve has a message for you:

 

[urkel]

It's pretty obvious when someone states something as an opinion. There's no need to preface it with an "IMO", etc. For example, when someone says "the new iphone is much better than the new galaxy s", that's pretty obvious that's simply that person's opinion.

I agree that things like "IMO" shouldn't be necessary.... But this is an Apple message board. The most vocal people out here care more about defending Apple more than any puny human. So, yes, "controversial" (and blasphemous) opinions actually do require a peppering of pre-apologies, disclaimers and groveling in order to slip past the defense drones.

WRONG: "The New iPhone is overhyped"
RIGHT: "The new iPhone is a wonder of technology and I love mine so much but in a small way I feel they could have improved it a little bit more."


WRONG: "The new MacBook should have more ports"
RIGHT: "It's so amazing how thin the new MacBook is, but IMO it feels a second port would be nice."


Both examples have statements that are the same but because of how incredibly cannibalistic some people out here are then there is a phony wordy BS language that is required in order to participate in a discussion without being called a troll or getting attacked because there's always that guy that's looking for a fight.

 

[PhoneI]

If the Nike Fuelband or MS Band suits a person's need for a fitness band, then an Apple Watch is overkill... and pointless if one doesn't have an iPhone.

The Nike website claims the Fuelband "makes a great watch". So they kind of disagree with you.

 

[PhoneI]

Actually the Band does quite a few more things if you have a Windows phone to pair it with. It's more of a direct competitor to the Apple Watch in that scenario, but then if you have a Windows phone you aren't in the market for an Apple Watch anyway.

Agreed. If you are an iPhone user, you are most likely not getting the MS Band. Nobody is going to wear a Band and Apple Watch.

 

[Nebrie]

I agree that things like "IMO" shouldn't be necessary.... But this is an Apple message board. The most vocal people out here care more about defending Apple more than any puny human. So, yes, "controversial" (and blasphemous) opinions actually do require a peppering of pre-apologies, disclaimers and groveling in order to slip past the defense drones.

WRONG: "The New iPhone is overhyped"
RIGHT: "The new iPhone is a wonder of technology and I love mine so much but in a small way I feel they could have improved it a little bit more."


WRONG: "The new MacBook should have more ports"
RIGHT: "It's so amazing how thin the new MacBook is, but IMO it feels a second port would be nice."


Both examples have statements that are the same but because of how incredibly cannibalistic some people out here are then there is a phony wordy BS language that is required in order to participate in a discussion without being called a troll or getting attacked because there's always that guy that's looking for a fight.

Stop the BS. If you make a bold statement like "The New iPhone is overhyped" or "The new MacBook should have more ports" then prove it. Where are the usage numbers that prove your point? When Apple makes these decisions, the people responsible for making them use reams of hard data to justify their position. They don't just sink 100 million dollars on a wild guess and coworker observation like most of the people on this forum would. So far, the track record is on their side.

 

[Jakeycov]

I like the look of the Surfacebook, but an article in Mashable mentions that they purposely designed the tablet element of the Surfacebook as a "clipboard" - I am not sure I really understand its limitations at this stage, but something tells me the base has quite a bit of power in terms of performance and battery which is lost when detached. I can't seem to find out any real information on it though.

 

[maxsix]

The stellar experience I've enjoyed with my Surface Pro 3 has encouraged me to pre-order the Surface Book. Like everything else it has it's pros and cons, yet I'm excited for something different.

The upcoming oversized iPad doesn't appeal as despite the marketing hype, it's probably more of the same from Apple. Yes it has the pen but it also has iOS with too many limitations for my requirements.

 

[RickTaylor]

I like the look of the Surfacebook, but an article in Mashable mentions that they purposely designed the tablet element of the Surfacebook as a "clipboard" - I am not sure I really understand its limitations at this stage, but something tells me the base has quite a bit of power in terms of performance and battery which is lost when detached. I can't seem to find out any real information on it though.

It looks like you're right; there's a second battery in the keyboard part. That's not a problem for me so long as I can fold the keyboard back, as I'm envisioning this a laptop I can draw on rather than a tablet (for that I have my iPad mini).

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/10/hands-on-the-surface-book-is-a-laptop-but-its-also-a-tablet/

"The keyboard unit can include a discrete NVIDIA GPU. That's only usable when the tablet is docked, of course. The keyboard also includes an extra battery; the system as a whole can manage a 12 hour battery life, Microsoft says, but that's only when using both batteries. The tablet itself has much less battery life."

 

[justin216]

I ordered a Surface Book (the $2099 version) right after the event, with the Dock. Hype train pulled into station. Around $2500 total.

After thinking about it for a couple days, making pro/con lists, etc, I cancelled the order a few minutes ago, and will be getting an iPad Pro to replace my Air 2, and keeping my rMBP 15.

Here's why:

• Price -- That's a lot of money for Skylake U, 8GB RAM, an unknown (and possibly underpowered for the resolution) GPU, and 256GB storage
  
  
• Performance -- It would be a significant performance downgrade from my Mid-2015 rMBP 15 w/ AMD GPU. The comparisons they made were against the Broadwell U machines, and as a result, are only useful in this tiny slice of time before those Macs move to Skylake as well
  
  
• Spec Vagueness -- No one is disclosing what kind of GPU I'm paying all this money for. With only 1GB of Framebuffer, it very likely won't be anything to write home about. Spending north of $2000 for a computer, I should know what I'm getting.
  
  
• Design -- That hinge, while really cool, makes me nervous about how it would hold up long-term. The teardrop gap screams "junk catcher". Pen or debris slips in, scratches it up or does damage to the screen.
  
  
• Battery Life -- I keep hearing from previews that when you use it in detached tablet mode, battery life is only about 3 hours in good conditions. Get some unoptimized software running on it, and you can even kiss that goodbye

Admittedly, the machine looks cool, and is probably built very well (Microsoft genuinely makes good hardware, I've found), but there are just too many strikes for me to trade in my current equipment.

 

[Beavix]

The problem for Microsoft is that, people like that are a vanishing market. PCs are less than 20% of the total personal computing market now and Apple with Macs owns only 5% of that 20% (1% of the overall computing market). If you're a company with a finite number of engineers to work on projects, do you throw them at making products for the shrinking part of the computing market where you own 1% or the one where you own over 20% and is rapidly growing?

Haven't you heard the news? The "post-PC era" has been delayed due to the dwindling tablet market share.

But if you were paying attention to what Microsoft has been doing lately, then you would noticed they started to create some amazing post-PC devices:

- A mobile phone which can also be used as a mini-PC for some tasks.

-A tablet which can also be used as a full-fledged PC.

- A full-fledged PC which can also be used like a tablet.

Is Microsoft a PC company? Not anymore.