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If you do a fresh install of Windows 98 and browse the circa 2000 internet with static html and no javascript it's really fast too. That doesn't mean that Microsoft is intentionally slowing PCs with each OS update.
Yeah that's not really the same thing. iOS gets more and more features over time and the older devices have less RAM and lower processor specs so as the software advances, the older hardware has a harder time keeping up. It happens gradually like I said.
 
Yeah that's not really the same thing. iOS gets more and more features over time and the older devices have less RAM and lower processor specs so as the software advances, the older hardware has a harder time keeping up. It happens gradually like I said.
its exactly the same, when you upgraded a machines operating systems with subsequent versions, with more features Nd software advances that require more hardware resources, the same machine 'feels slower'.

i daily drive a 13 mini on the latest ios, there is nothing slow about it. theres no value in comparing it to old devices on old oses. apples to oranges
 
its exactly the same, when you upgraded a machines operating systems with subsequent versions, with more features Nd software advances that require more hardware resources, the same machine 'feels slower'.

i daily drive a 13 mini on the latest ios, there is nothing slow about it. theres no value in comparing it to old devices on old oses. apples to oranges

Well, at least it would be good if we could turn off these bs-features. But often, you can't.

Some kids maybe want some animated background and some special effects fired when they open or close an app (ok those are things you can actually turn off), but for people who work and who's primary aspect of the device is its functionality and not sensation, it is very frustrating.

At this point I'm not sure how rational Apple devices still are.

And we also don't know how much Apple artificially blows up these software systems. I'm sure they could do better. I have spent almost 4000 on a Mac mini and it's lagging in a lot of places. Some users said it's because the OS is not adapted and perfected to work the best with the hardware it has.

Apple is just saving a lot of money. Apple spends a lot on marketing but not that much on perfecting its products. It mainly works on perfecting its marketing. The image of Apple we have in our heads is created by Apple itself. These devices cost almost nothing to make. And even the investment in technology aren't that great. Otherwise the margins of Apple wouldn't be that huge. It is making huge gains, but making huge gains always means you are making huge savings somewhere. That's classic accounting :p Other companies are reinvesting almost everything they make. Apple is too focused on marketing and creating an image (which of course also includes the outside material of the Macs or iPhones and things like that, everything contributes to the image).
 
Well, at least it would be good if we could turn off these bs-features. But often, you can't.
At this point, you have to assume this is a very simple transaction. When you update, you sell battery life and performance in exchange for features and compatibility.

Whether you want this or not, depends on the user. But you have to keep it mind that there are no refunds, once you update, it’s done forever. If it obliterates your device, it’s gone forever.

There’s no right or wrong decision, sadly, many people feel forced to update because staying behind inevitably means compatibility loss.

Others just try to circumvent these issues, like myself. I haven’t willingly updated any iOS device since 2013, and I don’t see that changing. (Like many of you know, I was forced to in 2019).

There’s nothing you can turn off, disable, or otherwise change so as the get the same battery life and performance that you originally got. As long as that is clear to you and as long as you can tolerate this, updating is fine. The problem arises when users expect perfect performance and battery life, because they’re always disappointed.

Even with the issues that staying behind brings about, I’m 100% happy with my decision.
 
At this point, you have to assume this is a very simple transaction. When you update, you sell battery life and performance in exchange for features and compatibility.

Whether you want this or not, depends on the user. But you have to keep it mind that there are no refunds, once you update, it’s done forever. If it obliterates your device, it’s gone forever.

There’s no right or wrong decision, sadly, many people feel forced to update because staying behind inevitably means compatibility loss.

Others just try to circumvent these issues, like myself. I haven’t willingly updated any iOS device since 2013, and I don’t see that changing. (Like many of you know, I was forced to in 2019).

There’s nothing you can turn off, disable, or otherwise change so as the get the same battery life and performance that you originally got. As long as that is clear to you and as long as you can tolerate this, updating is fine. The problem arises when users expect perfect performance and battery life, because they’re always disappointed.

Even with the issues that staying behind brings about, I’m 100% happy with my decision.

I know and I agree with you, but the problem is you don't get security updates anymore after a while. New viruses and things like that can infect you. The new OSs don't bring that much new features (although a few ones here and there are practical) that I would update just for them. I do the updates to keep my devices clean. It's like going to the doctors in my eyes.
 
I know and I agree with you, but the problem is you don't get security updates anymore after a while. New viruses and things like that can infect you. The new OSs don't bring that much new features (although a few ones here and there are practical) that I would update just for them. I do the updates to keep my devices clean. It's like going to the doctors in my eyes.
In practical terms the risk isn’t there, and in my view, a theoretical risk cannot trump the very practical problem that iOS updates bring about, but like the compatibility argument, I understand that point of view.
 
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I updated my iPhone 13 mini to iOS 17.5.1 yesterday, coming from iOS 16. I was pretty afraid due to all the comments and the 17.4.1 story.

But, I don’t regret it, it’s smooth as ever, battery life seems to be the same as before.
 
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Of course my iPhone 13 mini works "great" on iOS 17 now that I got used to it and have no other choice. The difference when upgrading from iOS 15 was massive, though. It made my new phone feel like it was suddenly 3 years older with a single click.
 
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Of course my iPhone 13 mini works "great" on iOS 17 now that I got used to it and have no other choice. The difference when upgrading from iOS 15 was massive, though. It made my new phone feel like it was suddenly 3 years older with a single click.
Can you elaborate? What specifically was faster or better before?
 
Of course my iPhone 13 mini works "great" on iOS 17 now that I got used to it and have no other choice. The difference when upgrading from iOS 15 was massive, though. It made my new phone feel like it was suddenly 3 years older with a single click.
This is an interesting point of view, especially because it generates a lot of contention.

I’ve seen it a lot. I have repeatedly stated throughout various conversations with people who have told me that me saying that “you claim it’s fine because you eventually forget how it ran on its original iOS version” is rather disrespectful.

Performance is difficult to measure. The only objective aspect is keyboard lag, which practically always happens. Interestingly, perhaps people don’t care enough so as to notice, but for somebody who is used to running original iOS versions, it’s the first thing that comes to mind. But performance issues can be denied and I have no way of proving otherwise. I can give my own experience but they can just claim that it doesn’t happen to them. People typically claim it’s fine, and any issues they have are almost always justified with the RAM being too low or the processor being too slow, factor which is never true on an original iOS version barring specific cases like the iPad 3.

Battery life, if provided with sufficient information, however, is an easy one to ascertain. A screenshot with enough SOT and enough information and context provided, is all I need if I know the device’s original version battery life to estimate a pretty accurate battery life loss.

As a user who presumably used the iPhone 13 Mini on iOS 15 for a little while, it’s easier to notice. Another interesting aspect is that the degradation with people who update through every little version isn’t catastrophic, but constant, barring some horrible major version like iOS 7 on the iPhone 4. So in my view, and like you said, the person periodically gets used to this being a little slower. Or this other aspect like the keyboard being a little laggier. And then it’s a little laggier than before. And a little slower. But I do think that it isn’t the same. I am using an iPhone 6s on iOS 13, and the keyboard is significantly laggy, performance significantly slower, battery life abhorrent. I’d call it usable in terms of performance, but why do I say that it’s absolutely abhorrent in reality? Because next to it I have an iPhone 6s on iOS 10. Because I’ve used the iOS 13 one for a few months... and the iPhone 6s on iOS 9 and 10 for a whopping (and continuous) 8 years. I know every intricacy of perfect, original versions for that device. Which means I’ll notice any and all shortcomings. I want to clarify one thing: it’s not a matter of any superiority. I’m not more sensitive or more perceptive than anyone. But they haven’t used iOS 9 and 10 for almost 8 years. You’re bound to notice less, especially when the end of a device’s lifespan comes and you’ve seen massive degradation cut up in smaller chunks throughout the years. To give an example, I haven’t used an iPod Touch 4G on iOS 4 for 13 years. I have one on iOS 5. It’s decent on iOS 5... but do I remember how it worked on iOS 4 with extreme detail? I don’t. Can I say that battery life and/or performance was worse? No. But do I know enough to affirm that iOS 5 is just as good as iOS 4? Also, no. So I don’t do it. That’s the only part I criticize (well, I don’t do it because the iPod Touch 4G hasn’t been relevant for a million years, but that’s another thing entirely).
 
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Can you elaborate? What specifically was faster or better before?

Opening native apps, browsing through native apps, browsing through settings, switching between apps, and most noticeable, keyboard speed.

I don’t have keyboard lag yet but suddenly the keyboard was significantly slower. Why? Is the keyboard in iOS 17 that much enhanced in comparison to the keyboard in iOS 15, that it suddenly needs that much more CPU power?

And the continuity and margins with which that happens with each update (it always gets a little slower) is so absolutely perfect in its design, that I can not imagine it being a natural process, but rather, it looks like it’s a planed one, and therefore that would be a case of planed obsolescence.

This is an interesting point of view, especially because it generates a lot of contention.

I’ve seen it a lot. I have repeatedly stated throughout various conversations with people who have told me that me saying that “you claim it’s fine because you eventually forget how it ran on its original iOS version” is rather disrespectful.

Performance is difficult to measure. The only objective aspect is keyboard lag, which practically always happens. Interestingly, perhaps people don’t care enough so as to notice, but for somebody who is used to running original iOS versions, it’s the first thing that comes to mind. But performance issues can be denied and I have no way of proving otherwise. I can give my own experience but they can just claim that it doesn’t happen to them. People typically claim it’s fine, and any issues they have are almost always justified with the RAM being too low or the processor being too slow, factor which is never true on an original iOS version barring specific cases like the iPad 3.

Battery life, if provided with sufficient information, however, is an easy one to ascertain. A screenshot with enough SOT and enough information and context provided, is all I need if I know the device’s original version battery life to estimate a pretty accurate battery life loss.

As a user who presumably used the iPhone 13 Mini on iOS 15 for a little while, it’s easier to notice. Another interesting aspect is that the degradation with people who update through every little version isn’t catastrophic, but constant, barring some horrible major version like iOS 7 on the iPhone 4. So in my view, and like you said, the person periodically gets used to this being a little slower. Or this other aspect like the keyboard being a little laggier. And then it’s a little laggier than before. And a little slower. But I do think that it isn’t the same. I am using an iPhone 6s on iOS 13, and the keyboard is significantly laggy, performance significantly slower, battery life abhorrent. I’d call it usable in terms of performance, but why do I say that it’s absolutely abhorrent in reality? Because next to it I have an iPhone 6s on iOS 10. Because I’ve used the iOS 13 one for a few months... and the iPhone 6s on iOS 9 and 10 for a whopping (and continuous) 8 years. I know every intricacy of perfect, original versions for that device. Which means I’ll notice any and all shortcomings. I want to clarify one thing: it’s not a matter of any superiority. I’m not more sensitive or more perceptive than anyone. But they haven’t used iOS 9 and 10 for almost 8 years. You’re bound to notice less, especially when the end of a device’s lifespan comes and you’ve seen massive degradation cut up in smaller chunks throughout the years. To give an example, I haven’t used an iPod Touch 4G on iOS 4 for 13 years. I have one on iOS 5. It’s decent on iOS 5... but do I remember how it worked on iOS 4 with extreme detail? I don’t. Can I say that battery life and/or performance was worse? No. But do I know enough to affirm that iOS 5 is just as good as iOS 4? Also, no. So I don’t do it. That’s the only part I criticize (well, I don’t do it because the iPod Touch 4G hasn’t been relevant for a million years, but that’s another thing entirely).

Exactly. Sometimes I wonder if some of the people who advocate so hard for Apple might actually not be paid by Apple or otherwise in Apple-nearby business. It would be important to know because it would mean their posts are a form of advertisement and would therefore have to be marked as such according to US and EU laws. Not declaring advertisements as such is illegal.
 
Exactly. Sometimes I wonder if some of the people who advocate so hard for Apple might actually not be paid by Apple or otherwise in Apple-nearby business. It would be important to know because it would mean their posts are a form of advertisement and would therefore have to be marked as such according to US and EU laws. Not declaring advertisements as such is illegal.
I think they’re too many people for that to be true. Honestly I’ll never stop being surprised about that. Because, like, you use the devices yourself. If you upgrade every year then you don’t know (and frankly, probably won’t care), but if you’ve used devices updated as far as they can go, then you have to know.

And when practically every user online defends updates and recommends updating anything and everything... well, I really don’t understand. It’s not like all of those users have never experienced something like that. They have used the 6s on iOS 15, the iPhone 7 on iOS 15, updated 32-bit devices, 64-bit devices updated through 7 major versions, etc.
 
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Silly John:

I've been updating my devices with the Latest for over thirty years . . .

. . . yes: I've been bit a few times (mostly on the win64-side of things), but--all-in-all--it's been a smooth ride.

iPhone 13 Mini updated to Latest, with complete continuity.
 
Silly John:

I've been updating my devices with the Latest for over thirty years . . .

. . . yes: I've been bit a few times (mostly on the win64-side of things), but--all-in-all--it's been a smooth ride.

iPhone 13 Mini updated to Latest, with complete continuity.
Any iOS device that you’ve used for many years? Something like six major versions from the original, or any 32-bit iOS devices?
 
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Any iOS device that you’ve used for many years? Something like six major versions from the original, or any 32-bit iOS devices?

I've been no-a'feared of Supplementals 🤷‍♂️

The[re: edit] *was* the abysmal Win2000 SP3 update (of "I can't really remember") that hosed the data of my attached storage.

I've updated all my OS/iOS devices upon release.
 
I've been beta testing Apple software since about 2010 on all of my Apple devices. I've had the 13 mini since launch and enrolled it in beta right away. Running 17.5.1 on it now and 17.6 as soon as the dev beta kicks off. It's running fine. :)
 
I've been no-a'feared of Supplementals 🤷‍♂️

The[re: edit] *was* the abysmal Win2000 SP3 update (of "I can't really remember") that hosed the data of my attached storage.

I've updated all my OS/iOS devices upon release.
So you’ve never had a six-year-old device that was fully updated, then? An iPhone 6s on iOS 15? A 10.5-inch iPad Pro on iPadOS 17?

You may not be afraid of supplemental updates with devices that are new enough. Push them through six major updates, and you should.
 
So you’ve never had a six-year-old device that was fully updated, then? An iPhone 6s on iOS 15? A 10.5-inch iPad Pro on iPadOS 17?

You may not be afraid of supplemental updates with devices that are new enough. Push them through six major updates, and you should.

I took my iP6 as far as it would go, then I divested myself of it.

My iPad 9 is on the latest with no impediment.

I guess I don't understand what you're on-about . . .

. . . the Thesis was "DON'T update your iPhone 13 mini to iOS 17!", which is a singular cautionary tale.

When the iP13-Mini fails to Update (or my 2023 MS (for that matter)), I will {grudgingly} divest myself, also ;)
 
I took my iP6 as far as it would go, then I divested myself of it.

My iPad 9 is on the latest with no impediment.

I guess I don't understand what you're on-about . . .

. . . the Thesis was "DON'T update your iPhone 13 mini to iOS 17!", which is a singular cautionary tale.

When the iP13-Mini fails to Update (or my 2023 MS (for that matter)), I will {grudgingly} divest myself, also ;)
The iPhone 6 on iOS 12 was not good. You really didn’t notice anything when compared with iOS 8? The 9th-gen iPad has the exact same screen-on time that it had on its original iOS version? In spite of my question, I still think that both the 9th-gen iPad and the 13 Mini haven’t been updated enough. If you don’t track screen-on time to the detail you can definitely overlook a 10% drop. It isn’t enough to impact you. I know I wouldn’t notice if I didn’t track it.
 
The iPhone 6 on iOS 12 was not good. You really didn’t notice anything when compared with iOS 8? The 9th-gen iPad has the exact same screen-on time that it had on its original iOS version? In spite of my question, I still think that both the 9th-gen iPad and the 13 Mini haven’t been updated enough. If you don’t track screen-on time to the detail you can definitely overlook a 10% drop. It isn’t enough to impact you. I know I wouldn’t notice if I didn’t track it.

The iP6 was not good .

I have no memory of iOS8

The iP13-mini Experience has wiped my memory clean ;)

I don't keep multiples around (not do I compare), so I really don't have anything for comparison.

wrt Mac OS, I have more experience (none of which, unfortunately, would pass Peer Review).

I am quite happy with Sonoma (Latest).
 
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