DSLR vs Mirrorless sales

[paolo-]

And what is your obsession with wi-fi? Few people spend $5000+ on a high-end SLR and glass with the intention of instant sharing. It is just not a feature that matters in these cameras. I bought a Nikon waterproof P&S to use on vacations, it has wi-fi built in, and I don't see why anyone would care.

Pretty sure the Nikon wireless dongles offer that functionality for people who want it. I don't think they're that popular though because people don't really care for wifi in their cameras.

Wifi may not be useful for you but I don't think it's a gimmick for everyone. Quite a few pros are starting to use live view on iPads. Especially in a controlled environment, it allows you to set stuff up and see how it'll show up in camera so you don't have to run back and forth. Wireless tethering is obviously a nice plus for location shoots where bringing a laptop is just a bit too much.

Also for event photographers, quite often they need to upload photos as the event unfolds. Processing your images and uploading them the next day is not good enough when people are shooting from phones... Wifi allows them to quickly access the file from a tablet/phone, do a quick edit, slap a caption and off it goes to web.

Products like CamRanger and Eyefi have been around for a while now and sell, if we could get those capabilities built into the cameras why not? Sadly, the current implementations are far from seamless but I'm sure it'll get there.

 

[Padaung]

And what is your obsession with wi-fi? Few people spend $5000+ on a high-end SLR and glass with the intention of instant sharing. It is just not a feature that matters in these cameras. I bought a Nikon waterproof P&S to use on vacations, it has wi-fi built in, and I don't see why anyone would care.

Pretty sure the Nikon wireless dongles offer that functionality for people who want it. I don't think they're that popular though because people don't really care for wifi in their cameras.

I have spent $5000+ on Nikon high end SLRs and glass, and I'd LOVE wifi in every camera body.

I have tried solutions with Eye-fi cards, tethering and Nikons own wi-fi dongles and none are ideal.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Are you deliberately being silly?

DSLRs are unequivocally the best quality photographic capture devices available. As of now anyway. Professionals and anyone serious about quality uses them. The reasons for smartphones, mirrorless, p&s, whatever, are tradeoffs. Smaller size for performance, lower cost for performance. If you're not willing to make tradeoffs, there is no choice besides DSLR.

Everything else on your list is inferior to what is available now and they are a niche market because they are obsolete junk.

So you're comparing DSLRs to single pane glass and smartphones to triple pane? DSLR is the open fire kettle while smartphones are a modern electric kettle. Modern DSLRs are clunky old typewriters? Seriously?

At some point an argument just gets so stupid I have to shake my head and wonder how you let yourself type that crap. Just reading your own post again doesn't convince you how backwards your point of view is?




If they do, it will because camera phones take a better picture than anything else.



Those people have always existed and never been a factor in the camera market.

I can use my iPad to compose music and play hundreds of instruments. I guess all those poor suckers buying guitars just just dinosaurs who don't even know any better. In fact, since I have zero musical talent and wouldn't know what to do with a real guitar if I had one, I can make music better on the iPad than with a real instrument. So clearly musical instruments are dead. Long live the iPad.

And my school must have really sucked for making us study chemistry with actual stinky chemicals. There's a chemical reaction simulator app for iPad which is so much cheaper and cleaner than real chemicals and still shows the same result.

You can make that argument about anything. And it's wrong every time.

I think the facts speak for themselves. The DSLR sales are down because of camera phones. It's a fact (see original post at the start of the thread). Now I'm aware that DSLR's (and mirroless) will give you a better picture, but most people who don't print their pictures ever are quite happy with a camera phone. Now I'm not one of them (see my signature), but that doesn't change how the market is moving.

 

[TheReef]

And what is your obsession with wi-fi? Few people spend $5000+ on a high-end SLR and glass with the intention of instant sharing. It is just not a feature that matters in these cameras.

Another case is, I can lower the camera on tripod down into a sea cave on rope, that would be too risky to enter in person, and then compose, change settings, and shoot, all from a phone display via WiFi.

 

[FieldingMellish]

For quality results, I've been shooting mirrorless exclusively for a while now. I periodically miss my old full frame DSLR for its tonal range, split second focus and zero shutter lag. And I also use the iPhone camera expressly when it's convenient, usually for a quick survey, or to send a choice of store products to the wife to select from. I don't upload IPhone photos to social media.

 

[glenthompson]

It looks like DSLRs have a more significant drop after Xmas and summer. Lots of gifts for Xmas and graduation or vacation. Mirrorless seems to be a little less cyclical.

 

[Apple fanboy]

For quality results, I've been shooting mirrorless exclusively for a while now. I periodically miss my old full frame DSLR for its tonal range, split second focus and zero shutter lag. And I also use the iPhone camera expressly when it's convenient, usually for a quick survey, or to send a choice of store products to the wife to select from. I don't upload IPhone photos to social media.

iPhone camera for shooting pictures of food stuff I'm to pick up at the supermarket is probably my bigest use of the iPhone camera!

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Another case is, I can lower the camera on tripod down into a sea cave on rope, that would be too risky to enter in person, and then compose, change settings, and shoot, all from a phone display via WiFi.

Having picked up the D750 with built in wifi, I thought setting it up in the garden to shoot birds would be a great idea, with me inside with my iPhone screen. The connection didn't work as well as I'd hoped tbh.

 

[JDDavis]

iPhone camera for shooting pictures of food stuff I'm to pick up at the supermarket is probably my bigest use of the iPhone camera!

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Having picked up the D750 with built in wifi, I thought setting it up in the garden to shoot birds would be a great idea, with me inside with my iPhone screen. The connection didn't work as well as I'd hoped tbh.

Agree on the D750 wifi AFB. I tried it out with Nikon app and using it to shoot remotely was to annoying to be useable. The ability to turn wifi on and pull an image off the camera and on to my phone has been useful though. I've used that several times to send someone an image off the D750 or do a quick edit on the phone and post something.

I think wifi enabled shooting/viewing is perfect for cameras like the GoPro Hero and has it's situational usefulness like when using a drone. For situations where the camera is in my hand...not so much. I've said in the past though and often wondered why DSLR companies have not tried to put more "computer" in their cameras. We should probably be grateful though since a useable full blown operating system is an extremely difficult thing to do and Nikon or Canon would undoubtedly botch it horribly. I can't imagine the mess a Nikon OS with apps on the back of my camera would be

 

[steveash]

I don't really see the different formats as being so heavily in conflict. They continue to merge into one blurred marketplace. A Sony A7 for example has as much in common with a D810 as it does a Nikon 1. I personally use four different camera formats on a daily basis and wouldn't really want to do without any of them.

In my experience most people used to buy an entry level DSLR (along with a camcorder) when their first child was born or they had a big holiday or life event. These days I think people are happy to settle for their phones. I don't think many serious enthusiasts are trading their 'proper cameras' for phones.

I imagine in a decade there will still be a few cameras with optical viewfinders to keep the purists happy while the rest of the market will still be divided by sensor sizes. I imagine removable storage will be a thing of the past made unnecessary by huge built in capacities and wifi/cloud backup. Sadly batteries may go the same route following Apple's lead to seal them inside to restrict product lifespans...

 

[jms969]

I would ditch my DSLR bodies in a heart beat for a full featured FF mirrorless such as this Nikon concept...

http://nikonrumors.com/2015/04/20/new-nikon-full-frame-mirrorless-camera-on-the-horizon.aspx/

 

[MCAsan]

Try the Sony Alpha series. They have the sense to put stabilization in the body, not in the lenses.

http://store.sony.com/-cms-page.content.mirrorless.cameras

 

[TheReef]

Having picked up the D750 with built in wifi, I thought setting it up in the garden to shoot birds would be a great idea, with me inside with my iPhone screen. The connection didn't work as well as I'd hoped tbh.

Ah thats a shame, I find the Sony app works pretty ok connecting the A7 to an iPad. Maybe there's a firmware/app update?

 

[simonsi]

I would ditch my DSLR bodies in a heart beat for a full featured FF mirrorless such as this Nikon concept...

Image

http://nikonrumors.com/2015/04/20/new-nikon-full-frame-mirrorless-camera-on-the-horizon.aspx/

Good luck shooting a hockey game with that. Frankly good luck holding the thing for even an hour continually...its got all the camera ergonomics of the 1950's built in!

(and I'm a Nikon fan)

 

[Attonine]

DSLRs are unequivocally the best quality photographic capture devices available.

Are they? A bit subjective this (quality? Image quality, build quality?). Leica M, Hasselblad H5D, Leaf backs, Petax 645z etc. Depends what you want doesn't it? Pure, no holds barred image quality (DSLR loses), versatile system (DSLR wins), weight/size (DSLR Loses), build quality(probably a draw with some other systems), I don't want to compromise on anything, price and size are not issues (DSLR loses)......?

 

[I7guy]

Are they? A bit subjective this (quality? Image quality, build quality?). Leica M, Hasselblad H5D, Leaf backs, Petax 645z etc. Depends what you want doesn't it? Pure, no holds barred image quality (DSLR loses), versatile system (DSLR wins), weight/size (DSLR Loses), build quality(probably a draw with some other systems), I don't want to compromise on anything, price and size are not issues (DSLR loses)......?

Within the range of what an average consumer or even pros will purchase. A $60000 hassleblad should back up its price with something more than mediocre picture quality.

 

[Attonine]

Within the range of what an average consumer or even pros will purchase. A $60000 hassleblad should back up its price with something more than mediocre picture quality.

I guess enough people are buying them to keep the company in business.

 

[I7guy]

I guess enough people are buying them to keep the company in business.

True. And Ferrari doesn't sell as many cars as Toyota and yet it is still in business.

 

[Attonine]

True. And Ferrari doesn't sell as many cars as Toyota and yet it is still in business.

And Ferrari's are better than Toyota.........?

I don't really know where you're going with this. The most expensive H5D is $45000 US. I have never used one and probably never will, all I have to go on is reviews, and apparently they wipe the floor with the D800 etc for IQ. My only point was that "DSLRs are unequivocally the best quality photographic capture devices available." is probably not true, and definitely not true dependant upon your criteria. I was just taking an easy shot because, as often happens, someone posted an absolute statement on the internet, and in this case it was done in a fairly passionate post.

 

[Mavimao]

Just my 2¢, but if I got back into photography, it was really because of mirrorless cameras. I had an SLR during the film days and enjoyed it, but then the initial investment for a nice DSLR became way out of my league and I had to settle for a Canon bridge camera, which was alright, but like many bridge cameras, was bigger than a point and shoot and the quality was not as good as a DSLR.

Fastforward to today, I have a Sony A6000 and it's really, for me, the best of both worlds. It's small and light and you can use an enormous variety of lenses.

I understand that people - especially professionals - have very specific needs and full-blown DSLRs fit certain of those needs. But for the amateur and prosumer wanting a step up from a phone camera or P&S, mirrorless in the way to go, bar none.

 

[jms969]

Try the Sony Alpha series. They have the sense to put stabilization in the body, not in the lenses.

http://store.sony.com/-cms-page.content.mirrorless.cameras

Thanks, but I have THOUSANDS invested in F-Mount Nikon and Nikon compatible glass...

And yes I can use an adapter with Sony but I will wait and see what Nikon comes out with...

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Good luck shooting a hockey game with that. Frankly good luck holding the thing for even an hour continually...its got all the camera ergonomics of the 1950's built in!

(and I'm a Nikon fan)

It is a mock-up...

and who would want to attend a hockey game

 

[simonsi]

It is a mock-up...

and who would want to attend a hockey game

Oh I know its a mock-up, I'm just countering that it doesn't look anything like it is made to be used by human hands.

Daughters play, enough said

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But for the amateur and prosumer wanting a step up from a phone camera or P&S, mirrorless in the way to go, bar none.

Nah, if you want to shoot anything that moves you need an optical viewfinder.

 

[I7guy]

And Ferrari's are better than Toyota.........?

I don't really know where you're going with this. The most expensive H5D is $45000 US. I have never used one and probably never will, all I have to go on is reviews, and apparently they wipe the floor with the D800 etc for IQ. My only point was that "DSLRs are unequivocally the best quality photographic capture devices available." is probably not true, and definitely not true dependant upon your criteria. I was just taking an easy shot because, as often happens, someone posted an absolute statement on the internet, and in this case it was done in a fairly passionate post.

basically just splitting hairs was my point. The big difference between camera phones and mirror less and dslrs is the ability to quickly focus and lock on to a fast moving object. If you want to include/exclude higher end mf cameras and Leica, your choice; things not necessarily labeled exactly dslrs.

 

[Mavimao]

Oh I know its a mock-up, I'm just countering that it doesn't look anything like it is made to be used by human hands.

Daughters play, enough said

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Nah, if you want to shoot anything that moves you need an optical viewfinder.

I think it's great that your cameras work for you. I just don't understand why you have to constantly trash what others might like - whose needs are totally different perhaps from yours. I exclusively use manual lenses, since I prefer focusing my shots with my own hands, and Sony's focus assist is a god-send, especially for prime lenses.

 

[simonsi]

I think it's great that your cameras work for you. I just don't understand why you have to constantly trash what others might like - whose needs are totally different perhaps from yours. I exclusively use manual lenses, since I prefer focusing my shots with my own hands, and Sony's focus assist is a god-send, especially for prime lenses.

No trashing, equally "bar none" comments are obviously untrue as all users needs differ - which was the point I was making and support. There is no single answer, you will note I didn't like that Nikon mock up (whic by definition no-one has), because of its ergonomics, not because of its technology or feature set.

DSLRs aren't perfect in every user case, nor are mirrorless, medium format, film or any technology yet dreamed up. Any technology yet to be dreamed up is highly likely to be perfect in all cases.

I think you have me confused with someone else..."constantly trash"? Really, based on two comments, one was a response to a humerous exchange that didn't involve you???

 

[MCAsan]

Thanks, but I have THOUSANDS invested in F-Mount Nikon and Nikon compatible glass...

The wife and I had similar in Canon L glass. Sold if all off last spring.