Early Intel - Trash or treasure? MacBook Pro 2008

[B S Magnet]

I wouldn't fully rely on any fan-controlling stuff ... On one occasion my MBP4,1 's GPU died after I closed the lid, then system went to sleep and fan-controlling-software too without continuing cooling-down monitoring and prolonged fan activity. As a result GPU-temperature and fans probably were out of control/off.
(May I didn't set up things correctly, who knows ...)

Only now seeing this response:

Depending on which version of OS X/macOS you’re using, Macs Fan Control lets you configure different usage profiles (which are accessible from the menubar pull-down). If you want to, you can configure it with fans set to “default” (as set by Apple) as a profile and save the profile as your “clamshell mode” setting. On the version I use with my 2013 iMac running High Sierra, this would be the same as “Automatic”.

No, it doesn’t do it for you, but by setting it with a profile like that, it removes Macs Fan Control from the equation when putting it into closed-lid mode.

The version I use with Snow Leopard lacks this feature, but the fan(s) can be controlled by switching them to automatic sensory detection within the preferences (and not the manual settings you might be otherwise using).

 

[WindowsXPuser]

Correct.

Sometime around September/October of 2008 (around when the base configuration of HDD storage quietly went from 250GB to 320GB and standard RAM went from 2GB to 4GB for the MBP4,1), Apple had mostly sorted through the issue (which became known almost immediately after the first units went on sale in early ’08, but I’m guessing it takes some time for the supply/manufacturing chain to ramp up with the revised GPU supply) and ordered the revised GPU for the later models in the series. It was, of course, nothing Apple announced or publicized, because egg on the face, etc.

While I don’t have or even know around which production week that was, I would probably pin it around week 35 or 36 (late September) when subsequent MBP4,1 units shipped with the revised, G84-603-A2 GPU, and sold from October 14th through the end of run. Consequently, those would not have a green dot because they were never factory-repaired/replaced from an initial G84-602-A2 GPU.

In short, if you’re looking to buy a MBP4,1 and in the listing it appears the GPU is working, try to find out what the serial number is. Use that to look up the AppleSerialNumber service via Everymac.com. This ought to at least tell you when that particular system was made and whether it was bundled with the higher-capacity 320GB HDD and 4GB RAM as standard equipment and not as a BTO/CTO option.

I just bought myself an A1260 and the serial puts it at week 40 of 2008 but the specs have it with a 200GB HDD and 2GB of RAM, so that kinda places it somewhere between revised and not revised. Is there any way to know for sure if the machine has a revised GPU without removing the heatsink? I'm out of thermal paste so I want to avoid doing that.

 

[Amethyst1]

Is there any way to know for sure if the machine has a revised GPU without removing the heatsink?

Is there a green dot sticker on the RAM bridge? If so, that unambiguously means the GPU is the revised variant.

 

[WindowsXPuser]

Is there a green dot sticker on the RAM bridge? If so, that unambiguously means the GPU is the revised variant.

I thought the green sticker was only there if the GPU has been replaced. Is it there on machines that shipped with the revised GPU too?

 

[B S Magnet]

I thought the green sticker was only there if the GPU has been replaced. Is it there on machines that shipped with the revised GPU too?

The other way you can check definitively, if you don’t mind getting your hands dirty, so to speak, is to clean out the internals and the old thermal paste to add in a fresh batch (which is a good idea anyway for what it probably still 13-year-old OEM paste): when you do, you’ll be able to inspect the GPU code directly and confirm whether it’s the G84-602-A2 or G84-603-A2 version. You will want the latter.

But otherwise, no. The green dot only showed up on Apple-repaired boards, as I’m guessing they thought they could recoup some warranty replacement costs by putting the repaired boards back into the stream of parts availability (rather than produce a whole mess of new, complete boards for the purpose of having an inventory on hand to fix the defective GPUs coming in for AppleCare servicing). And because the model was on sale, specs unchanged, for twelve months — pretty much the longest stretch for Intel-base Mac laptops up to that point — they would have enough new boards (probably after mid-October 2008) and enough repaired boards to cover all the warrantied boards coming in for replacement.

 

[MBAir2010]

You got it. I hope people start to shift their mindless sheep-like consumerism and recognize just how much usable tech we already have in circulation. Sometimes all it needs is a little attention; There really is no need to dig up more natural resources for the sake of personal computing.

WOW how gospel this paragraph is!
I'm searching for a more powerful MacBook from 2008-2012 instead fo the new M1 or even retina
seems to me the economics and time might not be worth rebuilding or updating the RAM SSD etc
and that dreadful "power chord not included"
good luck with your macbook pro!

 

[rampancy]

The other way you can check definitively, if you don’t mind getting your hands dirty, so to speak, is to clean out the internals and the old thermal paste to add in a fresh batch (which is a good idea anyway for what it probably still 13-year-old OEM paste): when you do, you’ll be able to inspect the GPU code directly and confirm whether it’s the G84-602-A2 or G84-603-A2 version. You will want the latter.

But otherwise, no. The green dot only showed up on Apple-repaired boards, as I’m guessing they thought they could recoup some warranty replacement costs by putting the repaired boards back into the stream of parts availability (rather than produce a whole mess of new, complete boards for the purpose of having an inventory on hand to fix the defective GPUs coming in for AppleCare servicing). And because the model was on sale, specs unchanged, for twelve months — pretty much the longest stretch for Intel-base Mac laptops up to that point — they would have enough new boards (probably after mid-October 2008) and enough repaired boards to cover all the warrantied boards coming in for replacement.

Apart from that, there's no other way to check if a given machine has the revised GPU, eh? Is there a range of serial numbers people could search for?

 

[B S Magnet]

Apart from that, there's no other way to check if a given machine has the revised GPU, eh? Is there a range of serial numbers people could search for?

As far as I know, there is not, no.

For the A1261 only, not the A1260 (which was superseded by the A1296 in September 2008), one could try to extrapolate the chances a laptop might have the revised GPU shipped as OEM, based on when that laptop was manufactured. It’s likely that very few, if any, A1260 units shipped OEM with the revised GPU.

Specifically, the chances a MBP was shipped with the revised GPU is going to improve the later it was made after, say, the start of October 2008. But that isn’t an assurance or a given. The best, quickest assurances remain a visual inspection of the GPU or, if assembled before October 2008, the presence of a green dot on the RAM bridge.

Additionally (although I’ve no way to test this), the hexadecimal revision number for the revised GPU might vary from the problematic GPU revision number, when viewed by System Profiler. Below is what I see on my factory-revised GPU board, with the revision number highlighted:

It’s possible someone like @dosdude1 will know whether this revision number varies between the two GPUs. I lack that knowledge.

 

[dosdude1]

As far as I know, there is not, no.

For the A1261 only, not the A1260 (which was superseded by the A1296 in September 2008), one could try to extrapolate the chances a laptop might have the revised GPU shipped as OEM, based on when that laptop was manufactured. It’s likely that very few, if any, A1260 units shipped OEM with the revised GPU.

Specifically, the chances a MBP was shipped with the revised GPU is going to improve the later it was made after, say, the start of October 2008. But that isn’t an assurance or a given. The best, quickest assurances remain a visual inspection of the GPU or, if assembled before October 2008, the presence of a green dot on the RAM bridge.

Additionally (although I’ve no way to test this), the hexadecimal revision number for the revised GPU might vary from the problematic GPU revision number, when viewed by System Profiler. Below is what I see on my factory-revised GPU board, with the revision number highlighted:

View attachment 1995588

It’s possible someone like @dosdude1 will know whether this revision number varies between the two GPUs. I lack that knowledge.

The revision number, technically, is nothing to do with the GPU chipset; that is simply data present in the machine’s video BIOS/ROM, which of course is independent of the GPU chipset itself. It is possible that Apple changed this value on machines with the revised chipset installed, but it doesn’t seem likely to me. I have an A1260 with an Apple-installed revised 8600M GT chipset; I’ll have to compare it with another machine with non-revised chipset and see if there’s any difference.

 

[rampancy]

Well, so I decided to take the plunge and pay way too much for an A1226 that had the wonderous green dot...

All seemed well, until I booted the machine from my Snow Leopard DVD and saw that the PCI Lane Width was 8x. Huh, that's odd...

Anyway, pressed for time, I popped in a hard drive with a known good install of 10.6.8 -- the machine boots up just fine, but now System Profiler reports a PCI Lane Width of 1x...oh. That's a sign it's going to die soon, right?

I guess even the vaunted green dot isn't a guarantee of escape from the dreaded GPU failure of doom...

 

[dosdude1]

Well, so I decided to take the plunge and pay way too much for an A1226 that had the wonderous green dot...

All seemed well, until I booted the machine from my Snow Leopard DVD and saw that the PCI Lane Width was 8x. Huh, that's odd...

Anyway, pressed for time, I popped in a hard drive with a known good install of 10.6.8 -- the machine boots up just fine, but now System Profiler reports a PCI Lane Width of 1x...oh. That's a sign it's going to die soon, right?

I guess even the vaunted green dot isn't a guarantee of escape from the dreaded GPU failure of doom...

Very odd... I'm very curious to see what GPU chipset it has if you open it up.

 

[rampancy]

Very odd... I'm very curious to see what GPU chipset it has if you open it up.

I'm willing to bet that it was a case of a poorly soldered GPU, which you mentioned earlier in this thread. Of course, it's supposed to be a rare occurrence, but it's just my luck that I got bitten by this.

Wish I had the money to spare to send this board to you to repair it...

 

[dosdude1]

I'm willing to bet that it was a case of a poorly soldered GPU, which you mentioned earlier in this thread. Of course, it's supposed to be a rare occurrence, but it's just my luck that I got bitten by this.

Wish I had the money to spare to send this board to you to repair it...

Usually poor soldering will cause it to not boot at all (not even fan spin in some cases). The PCIe Lane Width degradation almost certainly points to a failing chipset. My guess is it somehow got repaired using a non-revised chipset by Apple.

 

[rampancy]

Usually poor soldering will cause it to not boot at all (not even fan spin in some cases). The PCIe Lane Width degradation almost certainly points to a failing chipset. My guess is it somehow got repaired using a non-revised chipset by Apple.

I'm just baffled at how that could be the case. Was someone asleep at the wheel at the facility where these boards were refurbished? Did someone just mess up and stick a green dot sticker on an unrepaired motherboard? Did I just get profoundly unlucky?

Anyway - once this thing dies I'll definitely open it up to see if it has a 602 or a 603 GPU. Either way I'm disappointed. Ah well, at least I have a new source of screws for one of my screw-less A1211s.

 

[dosdude1]

Well, this probably WAS a nice, working, Apple-installed 603 board, until someone destroyed it with a heatgun.

 

[rampancy]

Well, this probably WAS a nice, working, Apple-installed 603 board, until someone destroyed it with a heatgun.

Wow, what a waste. I feel like "Green Dot" GF6800m MacBook Pros are some of the rarest (perhaps the rarest?) early Intel Macs out there.

I can only imagine what compelled this unit's original owner to do this. Maybe the revised GPU died from overheating and they attempted to reflow the solder in what they thought was a fix.

Speaking of which, my oddities with my first Green Dot MacBook Pro have continued. I replaced the 2x 1 GB DDR2 that I originally received in the machine with a single 2 GB DDR2 -- and lo and behold, the PCIe Lane Width value reported in System Profiler changed again from x1 up to x8. This is one of the most strangest things I've ever seen in a Mac.

 

[SecretSquirrel]

Well, so I decided to take the plunge and pay way too much for an A1226 that had the wonderous green dot...

All seemed well, until I booted the machine from my Snow Leopard DVD and saw that the PCI Lane Width was 8x. Huh, that's odd...

Anyway, pressed for time, I popped in a hard drive with a known good install of 10.6.8 -- the machine boots up just fine, but now System Profiler reports a PCI Lane Width of 1x...oh. That's a sign it's going to die soon, right?

I guess even the vaunted green dot isn't a guarantee of escape from the dreaded GPU failure of doom...

That’s rotten luck. Did you manage to sort something out?

 

[bwillwall]

"The specs are not bad at all!"

*reads the specs*

...

 

[B S Magnet]

"The specs are not bad at all!"

*reads the specs*

...

Meanwhile, several Early Intel Macs regulars are, at this moment, running Penryn C2D aluminium MBPs, the MBP4,1, on macOS as recent as Big Sur and doing just fine with them. Other MR members have even managed to run Ventura on this series.

The Penryn 2008 MBPs are one of those rare, versatile switchblade/Swiss army knife Mac models which, unintentionally, do much more, both software- and hardware-wise, than what Apple ever marketed or intended them to do.

There have only ever been a few Mac models with the chops to do that, out-of-box.

With aftermarket amendments, some manage to run with similar breadth and capability across architectural eras (the Power Macintosh 9600, from OS 7.6.1 to OS X 10.5.8, and the 2007 iMac, from Tiger to Monterey, both come to mind, as do the Mac Pro 3,1 of 2008 and unibody Ivy Bridge MacBook Pros of 2012).

If you came here to necromance a thread with the sole purpose to mock fourteen-year-old specs, @bwillwall , you won’t get a lot traction from us. :bigshrug:

 

[rampancy]

That’s rotten luck. Did you manage to sort something out?

Thanks for asking (sorry for the delay)! I've known this guy for many years, and he's practically given me some of the Macs in my collection for almost nothing. And, well...this MacBook Pro is still working almost perfectly well. Apart from the PCIe Lane Width issue, I've encountered no GPU-related issues at all. It still works fine, even though it does run a little on the hot side when doing things like watching YouTube. It's grown into my new daily driver Mac, though I dare not use it for any kind of gaming beyond 2D games like Jets N' Guns, or Spiderweb Software's lo-fi retro RPGs.

I don't want to jinx it, but it was like I was just waiting for this Mac to eventually kick the bucket - and yet, it didn't!

 

[bwillwall]

Meanwhile, several Early Intel Macs regulars are, at this moment, running Penryn C2D aluminium MBPs, the MBP4,1, on macOS as recent as Big Sur and doing just fine with them. Other MR members have even managed to run Ventura on this series.

The Penryn 2008 MBPs are one of those rare, versatile switchblade/Swiss army knife Mac models which, unintentionally, do much more, both software- and hardware-wise, than what Apple ever marketed or intended them to do.

There have only ever been a few Mac models with the chops to do that, out-of-box.

With aftermarket amendments, some manage to run with similar breadth and capability across architectural eras (the Power Macintosh 9600, from OS 7.6.1 to OS X 10.5.8, and the 2007 iMac, from Tiger to Monterey, both come to mind, as do the Mac Pro 3,1 of 2008 and unibody Ivy Bridge MacBook Pros of 2012).

If you came here to necromance a thread with the sole purpose to mock fourteen-year-old specs, @bwillwall , you won’t get a lot traction from us. :bigshrug:

I'd love to see anyone use this with Big Sur as a daily machine tho. I understand an old laptop will have bad specs, I just laughed at the idea of the specs being good, like I was thinking by today/real standards rather than just for its era or whatever.

 

[B S Magnet]

I just laughed at the idea of the specs being good, like I was thinking by today/real standards rather than just for its era or whatever.

And that’s your folly.

 

[Amethyst1]

What was "good" in 2008 is laughable in 2022, what is good in 2022 will be laughable in 2036. And so on. It's always been like that.

 

[bwillwall]

What was "good" in 2008 is laughable in 2022, what is good in 2022 will be laughable in 2036. And so on. It's always been like that.

I agree my bad lol

 

[AphoticD]

"The specs are not bad at all!"

*reads the specs*

...

I know you are just having a bit of fun with this - and a lot has changed in the 4 years since this post went up - but performance is always going to be relative to our ever-shifting expectations.

As an example of this, my ‘08 Suzuki GS500E motorcycle still gets me to and from work every day - enjoyably twisting through country roads and into light urban traffic. It still easily takes off quicker from the traffic lights than most other vehicles.

This twin carburetor model is mostly unchanged in terms of engine and chasis design since 1989, but in sheer performance it is incredibly lightweight compared to a modern sport/v-twin or super-sport motorcycle.

I see so many 1000cc+ bikes on the road and also hear many stories of dead riders on performance bikes - just like computing, people buy into power/performance way beyond their needs and often even way beyond their skill level.

Getting back on topic, I still have this unit going (along with about a dozen more of these in varying conditons all purchased cheap and restored). It is not my daily driver, but fun to tinker with (and learn from).

Point being- Make the most of what you’ve got and don’t forget to enjoy the process!