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Having had a scoot around eBay, the TB1/TB2 docks which were offloaded when TB3 came out seem to have been swept up already but you can still find something like this if you really need FW:

View attachment 2408584

I've got that very dock. Mine included the PSU and TB cable for £3 more. :)

As I'd mentioned elsewhere, I bought it to provide my i5 MBA with FW800 and it also offers a nice array of other ports but with the caveat as @Amethyst1 has detailed, that its USB 3.0 transfer rates are mediocre. Still, I have a USB 3.0 TB dongle that I can connect to its pass-through and enjoy the best of both worlds.
 
Thing is, those dongles are perfect for those that want to carry minimal equipment. I am assuming they work with the latest ipads? A firewire digital camera/video camera connected to the ipad via the dongle, quick, easy and minimal hardware required, which makes it easy to carry around.

Clearly ebay sellers are trying to rip people off with the prices but all they will come back with it 'supply and demand'. Still a rip off in my book.
Those dongles are TB1 - i.e. miniDP connector type rather than USB-C. Not sure they will work with an iPad but I have no idea whether the TB3/TB2 adapter coupled with that dongle will work via the charging port. The iPad still needs internal support in iOS for FW800 and I can't see why Apple would have that since FW has long been deprecated. I don't have a recent iPad so these are just my thoughts.
 
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Clearly ebay sellers are trying to rip people off with the prices but all they will come back with it 'supply and demand'. Still a rip off in my book.
yes, im learning my lesson that e-bay sellers will take a false promise risk for that dollar!
 
Firewire has been traditionally faster than USB until USB 3 came out but you look at every computer, they will all have USB 2 ports (black) on them.

True. Shame users had to wait until, uh, 2012 or 2013 for USB to pass FireWire 800 (FireWire 1600 — and soon after, FireWire 3200 — was already implemented as a standard, but Apple passed on it for Thunderbolt) — in data throughput rates.

And shame, to this day, how USB 3.x still can’t be daisy-chained or IP-networked the way FireWire could.

I’d be singing the praises of Thunderbolt here, but licensing costs for the privilege of either manufacturing the cables and/or including the port on a device far exceeds the licensing for use of IEEE1394/FireWire and, problematically, means even TB1-compliant cables are still absurdly expensive for still being a copper-based cable.

Many new computers will have USB 3 (blue) BUT the huge majority being USB 2 and yet Firewire is far superior to USB 2 but yet USB is the connector of choice for device makers.

The only thing in favour of USB (and its longevity) is it’s not a proprietary standard.


yes, im learning my lesson that e-bay sellers will take a false promise risk for that dollar!

When I think about the vague idea of “competition” as a valued championed by “the market”, scant reflection on the way online platforms for, say, auction-based portals have never been a place of competition as one might understand it, allows for a single go-to location to set and control the standards of quality-control and authenticity for what its millions of sellers are peddling.

What I’m getting at, I think, is were eBay in co-existence with at least one, or even a handful of auction-based competitors for people and businesses to sell/auction their stuff, standards for quality, authenticity, and anti-dumping/gouging would be the selling point/killer feature of that competing platform, pressing their auction platform competitors to meet the same higher quality or, barring that, to fold.

(Of course, this doesn’t factor the separate consideration how mergers yielding oligopolies, duopolies, and monopolies have come from decades of heavy under-regulation by trade ministries, commissions, and multi-partite agreements, post-1980.)
 
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Firewire has been traditionally faster than USB until USB 3 came out but you look at every computer, they will all have USB 2 ports (black) on them.

Not my 2012 MBPs - their USB ports are all (both) USB 3.0. :D

Many new computers will have USB 3 (blue) BUT the huge majority being USB 2 and yet Firewire is far superior to USB 2 but yet USB is the connector of choice for device makers.

A major contributor to that decision is outlined below:

The only thing in favour of USB (and its longevity) is it’s not a proprietary standard.
 
FireWire 800 is considerably faster than USB 2.0. For many years, well into the era of USB 3.0, whenever I bought an external HDD enclosure, I always ensured wherever possible that it featured FW800.
It is faster - and I did buy those FW800 enclosures in PPC times. ;)
USB2.0 was good enough and much more affordable for "ordinary people" though.

Also, FW80 wasn't faster anymore when the Thunderbolt to FireWire adapter was released in 2012 - cause Macs were updated to include USB3 at about the same time.
 
Noticed that the price of these dongles have soared. The corresponding TB-ethernet ones still go cheaply. Anyone have any idea why people are shelling out so much for the FW adapter? Surely, for that money they could get one of the earlier multi-port Caldigit etc docks with a lot more to offer?

View attachment 2408470
This is insane. I got mine a few years back for like, $15.

What Macs would people be using these with, that can't be done with one that has FireWire 800 built in?
 
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This is insane. I got mine a few years back for like, $15.

What Macs would people be using these with, that can't be done with one that has FireWire 800 built in?
I bought mine with my 2015 MBP. I think that was the last year Apple had that particular socket for Thunderbolt before switching to USB-C. I have seen lots of 2015 era MBP/MBAs being dumped in the usual second hand shops in the UK the past two years or so but I assume there are some music producers (maybe?) still hanging onto theirs. I can't think of any other setup, which makes any sort of sense. You can still buy FW PCIe cards today, so it won't be a desktop with any PCIe slots.
 
It is faster - and I did buy those FW800 enclosures in PPC times. ;)

:clears throat:

IEEE1394’s FireWire was still the fastest, effective, device-based, external serial bus found on all Macs cranked out between 2006 and early 2012. (I emphasize effective since data transfers with FW400’s 400Mbps typically outpaced USB 2.0’s greater packet overhead, thus undermining the negligible advantage of that standard’s 480Mbps specification.)

It’s noteworthy to mark these years because they cover virtually every model we discuss on this forum. [MacBook5,1 was the notable outlier for lacking FireWire altogether.]

Given the way Jobs declared FireWire to be “dead” in 2008 (as rebuttal to quick complaints how the aforementioned, unibody MacBook dropped FireWire was “intended” to be enough of a telegraphing of his sentiment before he had to do PR damage control), there was still a window of three years wherein FireWire was still the fastest external bus port shipped on all Macs, save the MB5,1.

When set in this light, the demise of FireWire, as with the demise of ZFS in 2007–08, was spearheaded by Jobs.

In both, heavy engineering might and financial resources then got involved to step up, to find technological workarounds to emphasize the D.O.A./deadness of Jobs’s capricious PR decrees: respectively, working with Intel to develop Light Peak (Thunderbolt); and snubbing Sun CEO’s faux pas of scooping Jobs’s announcement for ZFS by one day, to devote a nine-year development of APFS to replace HFS+ (something Jobs didn’t live to witness).

In short, it’s to say Jobs never did anything by half-measures: either things he championed, proactively, ended up successful (or laid groundwork for future success, like Lisa becoming Macintosh; the G4 Cube paving way for Mac mini; or iPod paving ground for iPhone); or, initiatives he pursued reactively and/or defensively ended up as remedial kludges which, eventually, were brought to force through compulsory inclusion on hardware and system software.

Sure, Thunderbolt is fast today. But consider the billions in R&D involved for a clean-sheet, proprietary serial bus standard-over-PCIe, when a related standard was already in place.

That existing standard, IEEE1394, already played nice with PCIe. It was still undergoing standards updates and conveyance improvements. Multiple revisions were already deployed and in the pipeline. (There’s no reason to discount an IEEE1394 revision to have been also been able technically to carry digital display signal alongside other data.) IEEE1394’s data-transfer-over-optical fibre and Ethernet were already in place before optical-fibre transfer arrived to Thunderbolt).

One would be remiss if they didn’t consider the white whale aspect of tossing IEEE1394 for Light Peak/TB, or eschewing ZFS for APFS, all because the show man got showed up.


Also, FW80 wasn't faster anymore when the Thunderbolt to FireWire adapter was released in 2012 - cause Macs were updated to include USB3 at about the same time.

Again, three years passed between Jobs’s faux pas in 2008 and the arrival of Thunderbolt (in 2011) and USB 3.0 (over a year after Thunderbolt). That’s when a lot of Mac models came through, were sold, and dominated the circulation of what end users were using, from consumer level Mac mini and MacBooks to server-level Mac Pros and Xserves. FireWire 800, throughout, was still de facto the fastest offering across all of them (or, with a cheap adapter, could be adapted to FW400 on the remote side).

During those three, long years of Jobs doing damage control and the arrival of Thunderbolt, FW1600 had been out there and was quite ready to step up. But for Apple to adopt FW1600 for their Macs at that point would have made Jobs look, uh, doubly worse for having prematurely delcaring its “death” in the first place. If anything, that death was anything but organic the way, say, SCSI was.



EDIT to add: After posting this, I found another post on the forums with a straightforward breakdown of Thunderbolt 1’s effective data transfer speeds. We depend upon GT/s — gigatransfers-per-second — ratings when discussing Thunderbolt and PCIe, but this is the physical signal speed of the wire/cable medium, not the data speed. With header/footer subtracted from a 5GT/s Thunderbolt 1 packet — 20 per cent of that data is header/footer overhead — the effective, total data transfer rate is only 4000Mbps; but duplexed, that’s 2000MB/s.

2Gbps is barely quicker than than 1.6GBps data speed/transfer rate of FW1600, which was two years old and in place before Intel’s very first Light Peak/TB demonstrations rolled out in 2009. Optical cable transfer for IEEE1394b-2002 was seven years ahead of that first Light Peak demonstration, which relied on modified USB plugs paired with an optical cable. FW1600 was also to be succeeded in 2012 by FW3200, making it, again, significantly faster than TB1 just one year later.

My hot take, given all this: Light Peak/Thunderbolt was an engineering make-work project. It was designed to improve revenue on licensing the use of a new serial standard at an order much steeper than either the licensing of IEEE1394 (which never gained ubiquitous traction on Windows-ready Intel boxes), or either of the unlicensed USB or direct-PCIe. It may have been simpler for a non-proprietary standard, not unlike adopting USB in 1996, to engineer a non-proprietary, direct PCIe-over-external-cable standard. But we got the Thunderbolt we deserve, and we also pay dearly for that embedded cost of its licensing. 🙃
 
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This is insane. I got mine a few years back for like, $15.

What Macs would people be using these with, that can't be done with one that has FireWire 800 built in?

Back in 2019, when I found an iSight FireWire locally, with original box, for $40, the seller (without bringing it up) included a Thunderbolt-to-FW800 dongle in said box. By then, it was the second, “free” TB1-to-FW800 dongle to end up with me.

I still have both. I use one only periodically. I’m beginning to wonder whether I should sell the second, or to hold onto it in case the first begins to get flaky.
 
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It is faster - and I did buy those FW800 enclosures in PPC times. ;)
USB2.0 was good enough and much more affordable for "ordinary people" though.

Up till only fairly recently I was buying enclosures with FW800/eSATA/USB 3.0. The FREECOM, Western Digital and LaCie units that I purchased wasn't that much more expensive than USB only ones and they provide a million times more functionality and performance.

Also, FW80 wasn't faster anymore when the Thunderbolt to FireWire adapter was released in 2012 - cause Macs were updated to include USB3 at about the same time.

Yes, but no-one is disputing that FW800 was surpassed by USB 3.0 in transfer rates... The point was that FireWire by its very design remains a superior standard in many ways with options that remain unavailable even now to USB.
 
What Macs would people be using these with, that can't be done with one that has FireWire 800 built in?
You can still buy FW PCIe cards today, so it won't be a desktop with any PCIe slots.
No MBA has ever had FW, but every 2011 or later has Thunderbolt. Same goes for all retina MBPs and the trash can.

Shame users had to wait until, uh, 2012 or 2013 for USB to pass FireWire 800 […]
USB 3.0 PCIe controllers appeared in 2009 but Intel didn’t integrate it into chipsets until 2012.

[MacBook5,1 was the notable outlier for lacking FireWire altogether.]
And for not introducing Target Disk Mode via USB. That had to wait until the MacBook8,1.
 
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No MBA has ever had FW, but every 2011 or later has Thunderbolt. Same goes for all retina MBPs.

Thanks for clarifying that. I overlooked that detail when considering only the MB5,2 as the 2008-era outlier.

USB 3.0 PCIe controllers appeared in 2009 but Intel didn’t integrate it into chipsets until 2012.

True, but PCIe controllers over USB 3.x still doesn’t provide a logical layer to permits IP address networking the way IEEE1394 always could. That’s still a shortcoming for beefing up USB 3.x with PCIe controllers, or later dovetailing its physical cabling with Thunderbolt 3 cabling.

And for not introducing Target Disk Mode via USB. That had to wait until the MacBook8,1.

Wow. That’s bananas — for both MB5,1 and the early revisions of the MBA.
 
IEEE1394’s FireWire was still the fastest, effective, device-based, external serial bus found on all Macs cranked out between 2006 and early 2012.
Minus the MBA, making the addition of TB to 2011 and later models all the more important.

My hot take, given all this: Light Peak/Thunderbolt was an engineering make-work project. It was designed to improve revenue on licensing the use of a new serial standard [...]
TB has been made royalty-free in the meantime.

Sure, Thunderbolt is fast today. But consider the billions in R&D involved for a clean-sheet, proprietary serial bus standard-over-PCIe, when a related standard was already in place.
Does FW also allow attaching native PCIe devices, like GPUs though? It's PCIe tunneling which makes TB so flexible. And it gained more traction than OCZ's one-off HSDL.

EDIT to add: After posting this, I found another post on the forums with a straightforward breakdown of Thunderbolt 1’s effective data transfer speeds. We depend upon GT/s — gigatransfers-per-second — ratings when discussing Thunderbolt and PCIe, but this is the physical signal speed of the wire/cable medium, not the data speed. With header/footer subtracted from a 5GT/s Thunderbolt 1 packet — 20 per cent of that data is header/footer overhead — the effective, total data transfer rate is only 4000Mbps; but duplexed, that’s 2000MB/s.
That’s not accurate. TB1 uses four PCIe 2.0 lanes (at 5 GT/s per direction each) and provides two 10 Gbps-per-direction channels. A single device can use all the bandwidth available on one channel.

2Gbps is barely quicker than than 1.6GBps data speed/transfer rate of FW1600, which was two years old and in place before Intel’s very first Light Peak/TB demonstrations rolled out in 2009.
Theoretically, FW1600 is 160 MB/s and FW3200 is 320 MB/s (due to 8b/10b encoding). As for TB1: I hit 900 MB/s reading from a single SSD. Anand hit 1000 MB/s.
 
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TB has been made royalty-free in the meantime.

Well, Thunderbolt 3 and later, sure. TB1 and 2, with mini-Display connector? Not so much.

Does FW also allow attaching native PCIe devices, like GPUs though?

It’s kind of moot, given all the roads not taken between an IEEE1394 committee better supported by industry (:cough: Apple :cough:) and considerations and needs for integrating PCIe support, such as tying it in a way to make PCIe tunnelling a thing. As it was, we did at least see PCIe ExpressCards making FireWire 800 available as an add-on element.

That’s, of course, the physical component. The committee never got to a place where integrating the logical component of PCIe with future IEEE1394 revisions might have come to pass, as Jobs Apple declared FireWire (probably IEEE1394’s most widespread use, followed by i.Link) dead in ’08. Undoubtedly, that stole tremendous wind from the committee’s sails.

It's PCIe tunneling which makes TB so flexible. And it gained more traction than OCZ's one-off HSDL.

A smaller company’s innovation here was no match for a towering juggernaut with industry-wide heft. The age of scrappy smaller companies coming up with new standards, adopted industry-wide, was mostly over by the aughts.

I think about this whenever I think about how amazing an idea for frame.work’s expansion card design is. I also know full well how, even if demand by others to licence it in their laptops were to increase; and even if the physical standard became industry-wide and non-proprietary, a behemoth like an Apple or Dell would find a way around it by coming up with their own, proprietary version of the principle, developing a prohibitively costly licensing model for third-party vendors to pass to consumers, and wiping out the non-proprietary standard by sheer force of might.

This is a case study on why more regulation is overdue; why anti-trust action should pay more visits with tech giants facilitating in anti-competitive measures; and more support for IEEE committees to make final standard determinations for hardware and logical standards development are all consumer-oriented measures to confine the cumbersome workarounds on what is now, in effect, commodity products.

That’s not accurate. TB1 uses four PCIe 2.0 lanes (at 5 GT/s per direction each) and provides two 10 Gbps-per-direction channels. A single device can use all the bandwidth available on one channel.

Fair point, and my bad about the 10GT/s in each direction being parsed as 5 + 5 == 10 duplexed.

Was the 20 per cent data packet header/footer overhead cited in the link, in what is transmitted over TB1, wholly incorrect?


Theoretically, FW1600 is 160 MB/s and FW3200 is 320 MB/s (due to 8b/10b encoding). As for TB1: I hit 900 MB/s reading from a single SSD. Anand hit 1000 MB/s.

I think there are two discussions to branch from this.

One is:
“How far can giants like Intel push new limits in a proprietary capacity, even if only to never leave the lab?”

I don’t dispute the capability of a mature Thunderbolt in 2024.

The other, however, is more a panned back question about how industry should work toward new standards:
“How does bypassing an industry-wide engineering committee or consortium help end users get the best value for what they’re spending and maintaining?” This one often has me pondering the possibility of what could be and where things could go, in absence of those impositions, for consumers and also the whole industry.

The reason I’m spilling tonnes of ink in this discussion is really more around the second question, as the first is always in fast motion and moving forward unbridled (with only those backed by the might of a concern like Intel these days seeing any likelihood of widespread consumer daylight). The trend of bypassing industry-wide consortia for unlicensed standards, in order to push out proprietary protocols is, I conjecture, a drag on (scrappy) innovation. Try to imagine USB 1.0 staying proprietary and licensed from 1995, and then imagine where USB might be now.

Despite their own large scale, this is a good time to watch whether Dell’s proprietary CAMM memory will have a lasting presence, or whether it’ll be binned within a few years.

Were Dell to release the standard to JEDEC, IEEE, and/or other industry-wide, standards-based bodies, I’d like to think CAMM might have a better-supported future ahead of it.
 
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As it was, we did at least see PCIe ExpressCards making FireWire 800 available as an add-on element.
ExpressCard exposes one PCIe lane that can be used for literally anything. :)

The 20 per cent data packet header/footer overhead cited in the link, in what is transmitted over TB1, wholly incorrect?
Thunderbolt 1 itself uses 64b/66b encoding, suggesting its overhead is 3.125% (10.3125 Gbps gross for 10 Gbps net per channel). But if using it to connect a PCIe 1.0/2.0 device which uses 8b/10b encoding, the total overhead is obviously larger. Let's ask @joevt to provide an authoritative answer on this. :)

There's probably a specific use case trending that none of us are hip enough to know about :)
It can be used backwards to connect TB devices to a FW host… not. :)


Wow. That’s bananas — for both MB5,1 and the early revisions of the MBA.
I wonder if USB TDM can be backported to these machines?
 
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I still have both. I use one only periodically. I’m beginning to wonder whether I should sell the second, or to hold onto it in case the first begins to get flaky.
Even though I recently bought 4 LaCie rugged drives I don't really need because they had FW800 ports, I am thinking of selling mine next year and buying a house with the proceeds.

No MBA has ever had FW, but every 2011 or later has Thunderbolt. Same goes for all retina MBPs and the trash can.

Yes but the dongle lends itself to portability so I would have assumed that Trashcan owners would have preferred the versatility of a dock and while Minis etc have TB ports, it would more likely be the MBP owners who were adding on FW rigs and DACs for music production.
 
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I wonder if USB TDM can be backported to these machines?

It’s probably possible, but the big trick will be getting the USB port into device-mode rather than host-mode.

On Skylake (2016ish) and later Intel chips, there’s a neat feature called DCI which allows them to be debugged using a custom USB cable, forcing that USB port into device mode.
xDCI is how this is enabled in software; there was a cool post earlier this year from a guy who managed to reverse-engineer and patch settings in his BIOS to enable it, in this case on a Skylake Thinkpad. He has an example of using Linux’s built-in gadget mode to make the Thinkpad present itself as a mass-storage system, which is exactly what you’d want for Target Disk Mode.

Of course, the problem here is how/whether you can coerce a Penryn-era USB port into device mode. I imagine that it would be quite difficult just to find whether this exists, let alone coerce the Mac EFI into supporting it at the same level as that Thinkpad.
 
Thunderbolt 1 itself uses 64b/66b encoding, suggesting its overhead is 3.125% (10.3125 Gbps gross for 10 Gbps net per channel). But if using it to connect a PCIe 1.0/2.0 device which uses 8b/10b encoding, the total overhead is obviously larger. Let's ask @joevt to provide an authoritative answer on this. :)
The PCIe or DisplayPort 8b/10b encoding isn't included while tunnelling over Thunderbolt because Thunderbolt has its own encoding.

CPU --> PCIe --> 8b10b --> Thunderbolt <-- 64b/66b --> Thunderbolt <-- 8b10b -- PCIe

Thunderbolt 1 is 10 Gbps (after 64b/66b encoding) but PCIe 2.0 x4 is 16 Gbps (after 8b/10b), so the bottleneck is definitely Thunderbolt. Maybe the USB4 spec can explain the maximum PCIe bandwidth for a Thunderbolt 10 Gbps x1 link.

16 Gbps is 2000 MB/s.
10 Gbps is 1250 MB/s. So maximum bandwidth is going to be < 1250 MB/s for sure.

USB 3.1 gen 2 is 9.7 Gbps (after 128b/132b encoding) which is 1212 MB/s. People can get ≈1060 MB/s from an SSD. Thunderbolt might have more overhead than USB?

I wonder if USB TDM can be backported to these machines?
Might be difficult for pre-Thunderbolt 3 Macs.

I am thinking it would be nice to port FireWire Target Disk Mode to pre-FireWire Macs like my Power Mac 8600. I could then access SCSI disks using FireWire. This would just require moving some Fire Wire Open Firmware code from newer Power Macs.

Thunderbolt probably could be added which could then enable Thunderbolt and USB Target Disk Modes. Neither ever existed for Power Macs, so they would have to be reverse engineered and new Open Firmware drivers would have to be created.

Below is a device tree of a Power Mac 8600 with some Thunderbolt AICs (one needs a patch to unhide) and an NVMe. I don't know if they can actually be made useful though (needs drivers).
Code:
0 > dev / ls 
FF828F80: /PowerPC,601@0
FF829878: /chosen@0
FF8299A8: /memory@0
FF829AF0: /openprom@0
FF829BB0: /AAPL,ROM@FFC00000
FF829DC8: /options@0
FF82A8E0: /aliases@0
FF82AB20: /packages@0
FF82ABA8:   /deblocker@0,0
FF82B3A8:   /disk-label@0,0
FF82B8E8:   /obp-tftp@0,0
FF82DD28:   /mac-files@0,0
FF82E520:   /mac-parts@0,0
FF82EC80:   /aix-boot@0,0
FF82F0F8:   /fat-files@0,0
FF8306C8:   /iso-9660-files@0,0
FF831010:   /xcoff-loader@0,0
FF8319D0:   /terminal-emulator@0,0
FF831A68: /bandit@F2000000
FF832C58:   /gc@10
FF833090:     /53c94@10000
FF834918:       /sd@0,0
FF835548:       /st@0,0
FF8361C0:     /mace@11000
FF837038:     /escc@13000
FF837190:       /ch-a@13020
FF837840:       /ch-b@13000
FF837EF0:     /awacs@14000
FF837FD8:     /swim3@15000
FF8390E0:     /via-cuda@16000
FF839C70:       /adb@0,0
FF839D60:         /keyboard@0,0
FF83A4B0:         /mouse@1,0
FF83A560:       /pram@0,0
FF83A610:       /rtc@0,0
FF83AAD8:       /power-mgt@0,0
FF83ABF8:     /mesh@18000
FF83C760:       /sd@0,0
FF83D390:       /st@0,0
FF83E098:     /sixty6@1C000
FF83E1C0:     /nvram@1D000
FF83FFD8:   /pci106b,1@B
FF8401B0:   /ATY,RV100Parent@D
FF8639E8:     /ATY,RV100ad_A@0
FF864160:     /ATY,RV100ad_B@1
FF8648A0:   /pci-bridge@E
FF865508:     /pci16b8,12@0
FF865778:     /pci16b8,12@0,1
FF8659E8:     /pci16b8,21@0,2
FF865C58:     /pci16b8,1@1
FF865EF0:     /Ultra-Tek133P@2
FF890078:       /sd@0,0
FF8A4930:   /pci-bridge@F
FF8A55C0:     /pci-bridge@0
FF8A6200:       /pci-bridge@8
FF8A6E40:         /pci-bridge@0
FF8A7A80:           /pci-bridge@0
FF8A86C0:             /pci2222,1111@0
FF8A89C8:           /pci-bridge@1
FF8A9630:           /pci-bridge@2
FF8AA270:             /pci2222,1111@0
FF8AA550:           /pci-bridge@4
FF8AB2D0:       /pci-bridge@9
FF8ABF10:         /pci-bridge@0
FF8ACB50:           /pci-bridge@0
FF8AD790:             /pci8086,0@0
FF8ADA90:           /pci-bridge@1
FF8AE6F8:           /pci-bridge@2
FF8AF338:             /pci8086,1138@0
FF8AF598:           /pci-bridge@3
FF8B0318:       /pci-bridge@10
FF8B0F58:         /pci1987,5016@0
FF8B1238:       /pci-bridge@11
FF83E2F8: /chaos@F0000000
FF8B2140:   /control@B
FF8B34F8:   /planb@D
FF83F288: /hammerhead@F8000000
 ok
 
On Skylake (2016ish) and later Intel chips, there’s a neat feature called DCI which allows them to be debugged using a custom USB cable, forcing that USB port into device mode.
Thanks for the pointer.

10 Gbps is 1250 MB/s. So maximum bandwidth is going to be < 1250 MB/s for sure.
With 8b/10b, I thought 10 Gbps was 1000 MB/s?

Thunderbolt probably could be added which could then enable Thunderbolt and USB Target Disk Modes.
It would also be cool to get a TB2 AIC working in a MacPro1,1/2,1 (since it can’t run Sierra for TB3 AICs).
 
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With 8b/10b, I thought 10 Gbps was 1000 MB/s?
16 Gbps = 2000 MB/s is the data rate for PCIe 2.0 x4 after 8b/10b encoding (but before PCI protocol overhead).
10 Gbps = 1250 MB/s is the data rate for Thunderbolt 1 after 64b/66b encoding (but before Thunderbolt protocol overhead).
9.7 Gbps = 1212 MB/s is the data rate for USB 3.1 gen 2 after 128b/132b encoding (but before USB protocol overhead).
 
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For $950 (about $1K with shipping), “for parts or not working”…

WHO NEEDS A CLUTCH COVER AMIRITE

1725426003141.png


Heck, who even needs connected hinges for that value?

1725426137958.png



What a deal.
 
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