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As far as I know, most carriers don't differentiate between data types. A data plan is a data plan, and you will get whatever your phone supports in areas where it is available.
on cingular data is data... it costs $40 per month unlimited whether you use edge or 3g.... the only break is if the device is a 'smartphone' vs a 'pda'...

Cool--thanks for the info. I can tell I'm NOT going to like what cell phone plans cost :eek: But it's about time for me to enter the 21st century finally.

well... im pretty sure he did near the beginning... i havnt seen it in some time ... im looking now for a written transcript of the event

Right, he did--I have the video podcast, I'll check the quote. (That MacRumors summary isn't a full transcript.)
 
Found it, at about 50:15 in the iTunes video podcast.

Jobs says: "iPhone is a quad-band GSM + EDGE phone. We have decided--we have decided to go with the most popular international standard, which is GSM. We're on that bandwagon, headed on that roadmap, and plan to make 3G phones and all sorts of other amazing things in the future."

No timetable, but it's a plan rather than a mere possibility :)

(MacRumors' mention of 3G in their summary was simply commenting on a joke image of a "3G" 3rd-gen iPod with a rotary phone dial.)

PS, The one thing iPhone clearly needs from the demo is speed-dial right on the main telephony screen for a few common numbers, separate from the larger contacts directory. A strip of 4x2 icons at the bottom would be great--8 contacts, and more if you scroll sideways. (I don't care so much about voice dialing: it's slower than tapping what I want, and only works "most of the time." It's more needed on a traditional hard-to-navigate phone.) Anyone who thinks I can't criticize Apple (which my history belies) simply need wait and see what I say if the iPhone comes out without some kind of speed-dial :)

EDIT: I think a speed-dial widget added to the iPhone's home menu might be nice, in addition to speed-dial access from the phone screen.
 
More like "That gives you just enough time to figure out how much it's going to cost you to break your current contract." :D

Go :apple: !!

And enough time to figure out how to justify the cost to your nearest and dearest - luckily in the UK we have a bit longer to come up with reasons we can't live without this phone. Mine is largely centred on my inability to write text messages on a standard phone due to dumb ass intuitive text.
 
You are actually wrong on this. The Windows Mobile Treo does every single one of the things you mentioned. Windows Mobile is a multitasking OS that can run multiple processes at once. I have actually taken a picture while talking on the phone. You can browse the web, switch to an SMS, then switch right back to pocket IE, all while listening to music with Windows Media Player.

As does Symbian.

The majority of Symbian phones does everything the iPhone can AND MORE!! Plus my E70 very very rarely crashes.

The iPhone is nothing special, apart from the multi-touch touch screen UI.
 
As does Symbian.

The majority of Symbian phones does everything the iPhone can AND MORE!! Plus my E70 very very rarely crashes.

The iPhone is nothing special, apart from the multi-touch touch screen UI.

Do people really not appreciate the OS interface at all?

Honestly, it is kind of amazing to me that we are still having this discussion.

People look at the core featureset, and say "Oh, hey, these both do e-mail, web browsing, can play mp3's, etc." and conclude that the iPhone is therefore no different from anything else and not special.

But this really doesn't make sense to me.

My Treo 650 can certain browse the web, play mp3's, etc. but the question is, does it do a good job of these things?

Personally at least, I don't think so - even PocketTunes, which is a decent music playing app, is not really the same as what the iPod offers, or what the music playing capabilities of the iPhone represent. And the Palm OS Blazer browser is a piece of junk and is barely usable for anything.

I think there's a huge difference between whether something can accomplish the same functions, and how usable it is.

This is something I would think especially that Mac and iPod owners would recognize; in terms of basic capabilities, does the iPod do anything that another MP3 player doesn't? No, not really. But in terms of interface, usability, etc. it absolutely does.

Same with a Mac running OS X compared to a PC running Windows.

Now Symbian is a different matter, and I think Symbian is a nice OS too; but even then, there's a pretty big different in UI between a Symbian-based phone and the iPhone, and that is not a trivial difference.

-Zadillo
 

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Do people really not appreciate the OS interface at all?

Honestly, it is kind of amazing to me that we are still having this discussion.

People look at the core featureset, and say "Oh, hey, these both do e-mail, web browsing, can play mp3's, etc." and conclude that the iPhone is therefore no different from anything else and not special.

But this really doesn't make sense to me.

My Treo 650 can certain browse the web, play mp3's, etc. but the question is, does it do a good job of these things?

Personally at least, I don't think so - even PocketTunes, which is a decent music playing app, is not really the same as what the iPod offers, or what the music playing capabilities of the iPhone represent. And the Palm OS Blazer browser is a piece of junk and is barely usable for anything.

I think there's a huge difference between whether something can accomplish the same functions, and how usable it is.

This is something I would think especially that Mac and iPod owners would recognize; in terms of basic capabilities, does the iPod do anything that another MP3 player doesn't? No, not really. But in terms of interface, usability, etc. it absolutely does.

Same with a Mac running OS X compared to a PC running Windows.

Now Symbian is a different matter, and I think Symbian is a nice OS too; but even then, there's a pretty big different in UI between a Symbian-based phone and the iPhone, and that is not a trivial difference.

-Zadillo

Well said, I think people are just seeing the specs: email, web browsing, plays music. What people aren't remembering is that the iPhone is an iPod (with cover flow), browses the web (with safari, and shows the page as the designer intended a user to see it) and connects to POP and IMAP servers for email (using an email app which is way easier to use than the one on my Treo 650).

People are also forgetting about the new visual voice mail feature, how cool is it going to be to pick and choose which voice mail you want to listen to first.

Oh and I forgot it also plays movies on a large screen. Show me a phone that can do all of this intuitively.
 
Well said, I think people are just seeing the specs: email, web browsing, plays music. What people aren't remembering is that the iPhone is an iPod (with cover flow), browses the web (with safari, and shows the page as the designer intended a user to see it) and connects to POP and IMAP servers for email (using an email app which is way easier to use than the one on my Treo 650).

People are also forgetting about the new visual voice mail feature, how cool is it going to be to pick and choose which voice mail you want to listen to first.

Oh and I forgot it also plays movies on a large screen. Show me a phone that can do all of this intuitively.

Actually, nobody's forgetting those things. Nobody is seeing the hardware specs and forgetting that software features also exist. Nobody thinks ease-of-use is irrelevant. Nobody thinks all user-interfaces are created equal. Nobody thinks little things like scrolling lists and zooming web pages are obscure or rare needs. Nobody sees the iPhone in use and thinks that using it is the same as using anything else. And whether the iPhone is the match for THEM specifically or not, nobody fails to realize that these things are a huge draw for many other people. All of these points are obvious.

Now, whether they're willing to ADMIT the above is of course another matter :) Some people are trying VERY hard to ignore the iPhone's features so that they can say it's the same as something else. Well they can say those words, but if they're willfiully ignoring such obvious issues, do they think it's a convincing stance? :p

The iPhone's not for them--THEY want something else. That's great, and THAT is what they would be saying in all honesty. Or, they DO want an iPhone, badly, and feel they have to justify that they chose a different device. No need for that--the justification is simple: iPhone's great but it's not out yet, so you bought one of the best devices that IS out. No shame in that. Enjoy what you have.

But pretending that other phones "do everything the iPhone can" is not honest. It's a word game that intentionally avoids iPhone's biggest features. I expect to hear someone say: "It depends on what the definition of 'do' is." :p

How else can one say that iPhone's rapid list management (drag scroll, flick fast-scroll with momentum, quick tap-access to any letter) isn't something that it "does"? Or that browsing Web pages that are FULL Web pages, same as you see at home, with double-tap to auto-zoom (or un-zoom) any column or image, and auto-sensing landscape view on demand? Those aren't things iPhone "does" that others don't? What about finding a music album visually? Coverflow in iTunes--which is one step below iPhone's gesture-control--gets me to an album much faster than scrolling a list of artwork icons (or heaven forbid, just names).

Or maybe, nobody on a smartphone scrolls lists or views Web pages or browses music, so features that make those things easier and better doen't matter? That comes across as trying WAY too hard to put down the iPhone.

And even in hardware, when people say X has all the specs iPhone does, they are generally ignoring screen size, storage capacity, and controls/sensors! :eek: So... hardware specs are all the matters, not software features... but screen, storage, and controls don't matter. Let me guess--thickness and weight probably don't matter either :p

If people prefer some other product, they should say that and not feel ashamed. They should be able to do that openly without pretending the iPhone doesn't do things that it does.
 
If all the device offers is the UI, then I'd say no, its not appreciated.

The iPhone is like a pretty book with no substance, and a very high price.

There is the functionality v price, and the iPhone loses this, in my eyes.

Other phones - functionality v price is a good balance.

Can the iPhone do what other phones do? Nope. The iPhone, IMO, is missing critical functionality.


Do people really not appreciate the OS interface at all?

Honestly, it is kind of amazing to me that we are still having this discussion.

People look at the core featureset, and say "Oh, hey, these both do e-mail, web browsing, can play mp3's, etc." and conclude that the iPhone is therefore no different from anything else and not special.

But this really doesn't make sense to me.

My Treo 650 can certain browse the web, play mp3's, etc. but the question is, does it do a good job of these things?

Personally at least, I don't think so - even PocketTunes, which is a decent music playing app, is not really the same as what the iPod offers, or what the music playing capabilities of the iPhone represent. And the Palm OS Blazer browser is a piece of junk and is barely usable for anything.

I think there's a huge difference between whether something can accomplish the same functions, and how usable it is.

This is something I would think especially that Mac and iPod owners would recognize; in terms of basic capabilities, does the iPod do anything that another MP3 player doesn't? No, not really. But in terms of interface, usability, etc. it absolutely does.

Same with a Mac running OS X compared to a PC running Windows.

Now Symbian is a different matter, and I think Symbian is a nice OS too; but even then, there's a pretty big different in UI between a Symbian-based phone and the iPhone, and that is not a trivial difference.

-Zadillo
 
Can the iPhone do what other phones do? Nope. The iPhone, IMO, is missing critical functionality.

And vice versa, unless you deliberately ignore the things I listed above.

If you decide the things the iPhone has (usability, big screen, mass storage) simply don't matter, or don't matter enough to get you to pay the price, then you are quite correct :) But of course, you speak only about your OWN needs when you set those priorities. Many will share your needs, and not care much about usability etc.--a perfectly valid personal choice.

And many, many, WILL care about those things--care enough to buy iPhones in large numbers, I predict.

Whatever those "critical" functions are that the iPhone lacks, I hope Apple adds them for you later. I'm sure they will prove valuable to many. (If it's 3G you want, that's already coming. If it's software features you depend on that are missing, there's hope the iPhone will do them from the start, since we've never seen the final version. And if not from the start, Apple has already stated their intent to keep adding software features as updates for existing iPhone users--one more benefit of the multitouch interface.)
 
Yes, people have different requirements, that why I put 'IMO' - I don't want to seem I'm speaking for the rest, only myself.

I hope Apple improve the software and add more, for example: From what I've seen from the address book - it appears cumbersome - i.e., no search - only tap on the index on the edge of the screen, to name one example.

Oh, plus its a two handed phone - AND NO - putting the phone on the table isn't a solution!! ( I've used the P900 - thats a two handed phone and it gets tiresome ).

I hope Apple add more features, and open the phone up to a third party developers, unrestricted. The iPhone can only get better and become more useful. if you don't want to install 3rd party apps, you don't have to. if an App sucks, uninstall it - just like you would with OSX.

If Apple reduce the price, then it'll sell well, but until that happens, it will be hampered by its high price - SIM locked and exclusivity.

You say in your referenced post
"Some people are trying VERY hard to ignore the iPhone's features so that they can say it's the same as something else. Well they can say those words, but if they're willfiully ignoring such obvious issues, do they think it's a convincing stance? "

But people also do the opposite, people try very hard to forget what the iPhone doesn't do, and ignore the iPhone's shortcomings, and still think its a convincing stance:)

And vice versa, unless you deliberately ignore the things I listed above.

If you decide the things the iPhone has (usability, big screen, mass storage) simply don't matter, or don't matter enough to get you to pay the price, then you are quite correct :) But of course, you speak only about your OWN needs when you set those priorities. Many will share your needs, and not care much about usability etc.--a perfectly valid personal choice.

And many, many, WILL care about those things--care enough to buy iPhones in large numbers, I predict.

Whatever those "critical" functions are that the iPhone lacks, I hope Apple adds them for you later. I'm sure they will prove valuable to many. (If it's 3G you want, that's already coming. If it's software features you depend on that are missing, there's hope the iPhone will do them from the start, since we've never seen the final version. And if not from the start, Apple has already stated their intent to keep adding software features as updates for existing iPhone users--one more benefit of the multitouch interface.)
 
Yes, people have different requirements, that why I put 'IMO' - I don't want to seem I'm speaking for the rest, only myself.

I hope Apple improve the software and add more, for example: From what I've seen from the address book - it appears cumbersome - i.e., no search - only tap on the index on the edge of the screen, to name one example.

Agreed. And the need for one-touch speed dial is related too. Browsing address lists should not be a primary means of starting a call. It will be interesting to see how the final version works.

You say in your referenced post
"Some people are trying VERY hard to ignore the iPhone's features so that they can say it's the same as something else. Well they can say those words, but if they're willfiully ignoring such obvious issues, do they think it's a convincing stance? "

But people also do the opposite, people try very hard to forget what the iPhone doesn't do, and ignore the iPhone's shortcomings, and still think its a convincing stance:)

I'd say two wrongs don't make a right, but what stance are you referring to? I've seen two basic stances in this thread:

1. The iPhone is great for me, great for many people, but not for everyone. It does some things no other product does.

2. The iPhone is NOT great for many people at all, and doesn't have any advantages over other products.

Artie McStrawman might pop in and say the iPhone is for everyone and does everything under the sun--but I haven't seen him here :) As I've said already above, if you prefer another device, there's no shame in that. The logical flaw comes when you state that the iPhone has nothing other devices lack. (Other phones do "everything the iPhone can AND MORE!!" etc.) It DOES do things every other device lacks--and vice versa. Some have 3G already for instance. Some phones have no Internet at all but are super-slim. Many good options. Pick what's best for you :)

(PS, along with screen size, multitouch, mass storage space, and the streamlined user interface design, I'll add WiFi as something many "competitors" lack.)
 
Option 2 is just too extreme!

I'd go somewhere in between. Trouble is, people don't think broad enough, thinking that because its no good for them, its no good for everyone, or, because its great for them, its good for all.

WIFI is very useful and something I would find difficult to live without on a cell phone.

"It DOES do things every other device lacks--and vice versa"
Definitely - i.e., the UI.

We'll see how well the multi touch screen actually fares during real usage. So far people have only used it for a short time and thats vastly different from having to use it during daily life.

Re: mass storage. For me, 2gigs is currently enough, but at least I can use more memory if I wanted to... buy a higher capacity memory card or, having to swap out the memory card ( which is , yes, awkward )- i.e., one for music one for applications. You can't swap the existing memory for a larger capacity card in the iPhone - perhaps someone can correct me.


I'd say two wrongs don't make a right, but what stance are you referring to? I've seen two basic stances in this thread:

1. The iPhone is great for me, great for many people, but not for everyone. It does some things no other product does.

2. The iPhone is NOT great for many people at all, and doesn't have any advantages over other products.

Artie McStrawman might pop in and say the iPhone is for everyone and does everything under the sun--but I haven't seen him here :) As I've said already above, if you prefer another device, there's no shame in that. The logical flaw comes when you state that the iPhone has nothing other devices lack. (Other phones do "everything the iPhone can AND MORE!!" etc.) It DOES do things every other device lacks--and vice versa. Some have 3G already for instance. Some phones have no Internet at all but are super-slim. Many good options. Pick what's best for you :)

(PS, along with screen size, multitouch, mass storage space, and the streamlined user interface design, I'll add WiFi as something many "competitors" lack.)
 
Trouble is, people don't think broad enough, thinking that because its no good for them, its no good for everyone, or, because its great for them, its good for all.

Agreed--I haven't seen the latter in this thread, but those two extremes are almost never useful in ANY situation.

I also agree that we will know more about the iPhone's strengths and weaknesses once it is out there.

I'd bet a lot, though, that replacing the flash storage will be a warranty-voiding hack at best. In which case the 4Gb minimum is a good thing.
 
Well said, I think people are just seeing the specs: email, web browsing, plays music. What people aren't remembering is that the iPhone is an iPod (with cover flow), browses the web (with safari, and shows the page as the designer intended a user to see it) and connects to POP and IMAP servers for email (using an email app which is way easier to use than the one on my Treo 650).

People are also forgetting about the new visual voice mail feature, how cool is it going to be to pick and choose which voice mail you want to listen to first.

Oh and I forgot it also plays movies on a large screen. Show me a phone that can do all of this intuitively.

Yep. If people make crazy comparisons just because their phone's do the same functions, they might as well point out that Windows 3.1 did word processing, and so does OSX. It's bizarre. And to top it all off, go to cingular and look at the prices of the smart phones. $400, $500, $600. And you just get junk imho. I've tried to look at a website or my email on just about any smartphone I could get my hands on. After about 30 seconds I had no desire to have one anymore. They just feel like a walkman compared to an ipod. Hey, they both play music.

(Some people may not remember the actual first walkman. It played cassette tapes)
 
Option 2 is just too extreme!


Re: mass storage. For me, 2gigs is currently enough, but at least I can use more memory if I wanted to... buy a higher capacity memory card or, having to swap out the memory card ( which is , yes, awkward )- i.e., one for music one for applications. You can't swap the existing memory for a larger capacity card in the iPhone - perhaps someone can correct me.

I just don't see how 2 gigs can be enough for anyone that uses the ipod for it's strengths. Music and photos. Both will eat that memory for lunch.
Plus, the memory included in the iPod is the TOTAL memory. It holds the OS, the applications, and then the storage. If it's truly running a small version of OSX (might just be a full version like the :apple:tv) then the 4 gig may only hold 2 gigs. I think the 8 gig is a minimum. But my 3G ipod is 15gigs and it's full.
 
I just don't see how 2 gigs can be enough for anyone that uses the ipod for it's strengths. Music and photos. Both will eat that memory for lunch.
Plus, the memory included in the iPod is the TOTAL memory. It holds the OS, the applications, and then the storage. If it's truly running a small version of OSX (might just be a full version like the :apple:tv) then the 4 gig may only hold 2 gigs. I think the 8 gig is a minimum. But my 3G ipod is 15gigs and it's full.

You misunderstand my post :) :
2Gigs is *enough for me* - which I do point out. I'm not talking about having 2gigs in a iPhone, I'm talking about 2Gigs in my existing phone - which is less than 50% full, includes a load of third party applications, main memory backup, some music etc.
 
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