Espresso Enthusiasts

[Shrink]

The Rocky is a great grinder and you will not regret going without food for a few weeks if necessary to afford it.

As the regulars around here know (and are probably sick of me saying), I am a huge Mazzer fan, and I currently use two Mazzer Mini's at home, one for espresso and the other for everything else. Built like tanks, and commonly found in many coffee shops around the world, for a reason.

I have a secret crush on this little beauty, and there is no good reason I haven't purchased one yet. In fact, just finding that link may be what sets me off.....

Manual grinders are great, and I use one in my portable kit. I just purchased the Lido 2; I have not had a chance to really use it yet, but I put in some beans the other night and it grinds like butter. My general concern with manual grinders is that I truly believe that getting the freshly ground coffee into the machine absolutely as quickly as possible is hugely important. Seconds count. For me, I cannot grind quickly enough with a manual. The coffee ground in the first few seconds will be much "older" than the coffee ground at the end, and I believe that (for me) that impacts taste. I imagine Shrink has these Popeye-ish forearms and so it does not matter for him. For a weakling like me, it does. Of course, there are other considerations in which manuals excel, such as heat, etc.

Buy the Rocky. That's my advice.

PS: the ultimate judge is taste. But, if you want to check out a grinder, grind up something fresh and then spread out the grounds on a white cloth and haul out your trusty magnifying glass that you use to sort your just-roasted beans. Look for perfect consistency in grain size. It's really easy to see missing consistency.

I just looked at "the little beauty"...that is one sweet little item.

I understand your point about the time necessary to do the grinding as an issue. I certainly can't taste the difference between a 15 second grind and a 25 second grind...but I don't doubt that you can.

My grinder, turning the handle at a comfortable pace, takes about 20-25 seconds to grind 16 grams. I do wonder if the speed of your grinder suggests a faster burr speed (mine is about 125 rpm)...do you feel that you are paying any price in bean grind quality because of the increased heat produced in a faster burr speed?

 

[S.B.G]

Now I'm torn between the Rocky and the Baratza.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMR_ffmtHKQ

I do 90% drip and <10% espresso. That's not to say the grinder won't play a part in modifying that ratio.

I agree with the others, if you can manage the Rocky, do it. It will be an investment over the long run. Don't waste money on a cheaper grinder, because it will be cheaper. Plus, if you start doing more espresso, the more grind adjustments you have the better you'll be able to dial in the appropriate grind for your bean and roast, which constantly changes for many reasons. The cheaper grinders offer less adjustments and could prove to never give that perfect grind for espresso.

You know, you could start selling Mod actions out the back door over in PRSI or PSRI or whatever it is called. You could have a full suite of grinders very quickly.

I like the way you think. I'm sure Arn won't mind a bit!

 

[Kurwenal]

I understand your point about the time necessary to do the grinding as an issue. I certainly can't taste the difference between a 15 second grind and a 25 second grind...but I don't doubt that you can.

No...you should doubt that I can grind a doppio in 25 seconds....

 

[Shrink]

No...you should doubt that I can grind a doppio in 25 seconds....

I had a question in my post that you quoted. I'm really interested in your opinion on the "heat" issue.

BTW: It's great to have you back "full time"!

 

[powerslave12r]

I agree with the others, if you can manage the Rocky, do it. It will be an investment over the long run. Don't waste money on a cheaper grinder, because it will be cheaper. Plus, if you start doing more espresso, the more grind adjustments you have the better you'll be able to dial in the appropriate grind for your bean and roast, which constantly changes for many reasons. The cheaper grinders offer less adjustments and could prove to never give that perfect grind for espresso.



I like the way you think. I'm sure Arn won't mind a bit!

I am tempted to plonk down the asking price for the Rocky on one hand, but the Baratza Encore has upto 40 different settings and the reviews seem promising. It is sitting on too sweet a spot on the price/performance curve for me.

 

[S.B.G]

I am tempted to plonk down the asking price for the Rocky on one hand, but the Baratza Encore has upto 40 different settings and the reviews seem promising. It is sitting on too sweet a spot on the price/performance curve for me.

I believe the Rocky has over 50 settings. Mine goes up to 50 on the label and then goes further after that.

Do you have an Amazon Prime account? That will save you about $175 I think.

 

[Shrink]

I am tempted to plonk down the asking price for the Rocky on one hand, but the Baratza Encore has upto 40 different settings and the reviews seem promising. It is sitting on too sweet a spot on the price/performance curve for me.

In addition to the number of settings as a deciding factor, the consistency of the particle size is an important issue with pour over method...and crucial with espresso. The better burrs, better engineering, and better motor of the Rocky will give you that particle size consistency.

The link in my earlier post is to the Amazon Rocky display.

 

[powerslave12r]

I believe the Rocky has over 50 settings. Mine goes up to 50 on the label and then goes further after that.

Do you have an Amazon Prime account? That will save you about $175 I think.

Yes I do, what do you mean by the last line?

In addition to the number of settings as a deciding factor, the consistency of the particle size is an important issue with pour over method...and crucial with espresso. The better burrs, better engineering, and better motor of the Rocky will give you that particle size consistency.

The link in my earlier post is to the Amazon Rocky display.

Still thinking..

 

[Kurwenal]

do you feel that you are paying any price in bean grind quality because of the increased heat produced in a faster burr speed?

Sorry, I blew right past your question. My apologies.

With some grinders, certainly. But not with the Mazzer (or the Compak), based on their design and the quality of the materials. I think that heat build up for home use is generally a non-issue (although frequently remarked on). A few years ago, I took measurements using a termocouple pushed down into the grinder chute (with care that it was centered and not resting on the chute itself) and another in the hopper. The temp difference was less than 7 degrees, and actually *decreased* during the grind, which I assumed was from the grind process pulling cooler air into the grinder (as you know, I live in the desert southwest and my air conditioner is almost always on). Of course, I grind with no top on the hopper, and with an empty hopper into which I put whatever I want to grind at that moment, so air circulation is pretty good.

I tested this another way by putting a full pound into the hopper and grinding continuously while I kept pulling shots. If the heat were causing degradation, I should have noticed that over the course of the shots. I did not.

Another plus of the Mazzer is its deserved reputation for not having problems with static or a buildup of grinds in the chute, which obviously could impact the heat issue.

So, do I think heat can be a problem. Absolutely. Is it for me? I do not believe so.

----------

BTW: It's great to have you back "full time"!

Thank you. Still doped up to some degree, but I am done with the rounds of chemo and radiation, and now just will work on gaining my strength back. I will do another scan in about 6 weeks to see if it all worked.

I appreciate your kind words.

*****

This thread is rocking today. I can't keep up.

 

[powerslave12r]

Thank you. Still doped up to some degree, but I am done with the rounds of chemo and radiation, and now just will work on gaining my strength back. I will do another scan in about 6 weeks to see if it all worked.

I appreciate your kind words.

*****

This thread is rocking today. I can't keep up.

Hey, I only know you from a few posts on here now, but way to go! That's awesome!!

 

[Shrink]

Sorry, I blew right past your question. My apologies.

With some grinders, certainly. But not with the Mazzer (or the Compak), based on their design and the quality of the materials. I think that heat build up for home use is generally a non-issue (although frequently remarked on). A few years ago, I took measurements using a termocouple pushed down into the grinder chute (with care that it was centered and not resting on the chute itself) and another in the hopper. The temp difference was less than 7 degrees, and actually *decreased* during the grind, which I assumed was from the grind process pulling cooler air into the grinder (as you know, I live in the desert southwest and my air conditioner is almost always on). Of course, I grind with no top on the hopper, and with an empty hopper into which I put whatever I want to grind at that moment, so air circulation is pretty good.

I tested this another way by putting a full pound into the hopper and grinding continuously while I kept pulling shots. If the heat were causing degradation, I should have noticed that over the course of the shots. I did not.

Another plus of the Mazzer is its deserved reputation for not having problems with static or a buildup of grinds in the chute, which obviously could impact the heat issue.

So, do I think heat can be a problem. Absolutely. Is it for me? I do not believe so.

----------



Thank you. Still doped up to some degree, but I am done with the rounds of chemo and radiation, and now just will work on gaining my strength back. I will do another scan in about 6 weeks to see if it all worked.

I appreciate your kind words.

First, and most important...wonderful news that chemo and radiation (so sorry...must have been horrible) are over. I will keep you in my thoughts regarding the results of the upcoming scan.

Now to the silly stuff..as always, your post was wonderful. I learn much reading your posts...and I appreciate your answering my question.

As far as missing the question...just a mark of your sanity that you don't read the whole of my posts!

 

[S.B.G]

Yes I do, what do you mean by the last line?

Without a Prime account, the grinder is $530. With a Prime account it's $355, a savings of $175.

 

[powerslave12r]

Without a Prime account, the grinder is $530. With a Prime account it's $355, a savings of $175.

Wow, I did not realize Amazon did that!

 

[S.B.G]

Thank you. Still doped up to some degree, but I am done with the rounds of chemo and radiation, and now just will work on gaining my strength back. I will do another scan in about 6 weeks to see if it all worked.

I appreciate your kind words.

*****

This thread is rocking today. I can't keep up.

I figured you were feeling much better the last few days with your increased participation again. It's great to have you back and better.

 

[Shrink]

Without a Prime account, the grinder is $530. With a Prime account it's $355, a savings of $175.

Are you sure about that? I thought that the price was not an issue with the Prime account...only the shipping costs and speed. Anyone can buy a Prime item at the Prime price, but will pay shipping, unlike Prime members.

I'm sure I could be wrong about this...but I thought that I remembered buying Prime priced items before my membership..but paid shipping.

Again...I could very easily be wrong!

 

[S.B.G]

Are you sure about that? I thought that the price was not an issue with the Prime account...only the shipping costs and speed. Anyone can buy a Prime item at the Prime price, but will pay shipping, unlike Prime members.

I'm sure I could be wrong about this...but I thought that I remembered buying Prime priced items before my membership..but paid shipping.

Again...I could very easily be wrong!

Hmmm.... Maybe you're right. I can't find on their About page any mention of savings on products, but I thought, quite surely, that it included the price savings too. I wonder why they list products like this if it isn't true.

 

[Shrink]

Hmmm.... Maybe you're right. I can't find on their About page any mention of savings on products, but I thought, quite surely, that it included the price savings too. I wonder why they list products like this if it isn't true.

I believe they list it that way to alert the buyer that the item is in the Prime program, and the shipping is free and 2 day. The "Savings" thingy appears in non-Prime items, too. It's also not something very meaningful, since I've seen items on Amazon showing huge savings, and are listed on other sites for pretty much the same price, and showing less of a savings.

I think it's an MSRP thing...and almost nobody sells many of the items at MSRP.

 

[mobilehaathi]

SM's currently has roasted beans including Liquid Amber available.

 

[powerslave12r]

SM's currently has roasted beans including Liquid Amber available.

Crap! I just placed my order today, don't feel like paying shipping again.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

It's worth it if it can be managed. But I'm sure others will have some suggestions, too.

Of course, you could go manual...this is what I'm using now.

Yes. I had wondered when a discreet reference to this priceless objet d'art would be made...

Notice the sneaky, if obvious, strategy to make the Rocky seem like a bargain?

Everything is relative. Not least the entirely objective concept of what constitutes a 'bargain'...

The Rocky is a great grinder and you will not regret going without food for a few weeks if necessary to afford it.

As the regulars around here know (and are probably sick of me saying), I am a huge Mazzer fan, and I currently use two Mazzer Mini's at home, one for espresso and the other for everything else. Built like tanks, and commonly found in many coffee shops around the world, for a reason.

I have a secret crush on this little beauty, and there is no good reason I haven't purchased one yet. In fact, just finding that link may be what sets me off.....

Manual grinders are great, and I use one in my portable kit. I just purchased the Lido 2; I have not had a chance to really use it yet, but I put in some beans the other night and it grinds like butter. My general concern with manual grinders is that I truly believe that getting the freshly ground coffee into the machine absolutely as quickly as possible is hugely important. Seconds count. For me, I cannot grind quickly enough with a manual. The coffee ground in the first few seconds will be much "older" than the coffee ground at the end, and I believe that (for me) that impacts taste. I imagine Shrink has these Popeye-ish forearms and so it does not matter for him. For a weakling like me, it does. Of course, there are other considerations in which manuals excel, such as heat, etc.

Buy the Rocky. That's my advice.

PS: the ultimate judge is taste. But, if you want to check out a grinder, grind up something fresh and then spread out the grounds on a white cloth and haul out your trusty magnifying glass that you use to sort your just-roasted beans. Look for perfect consistency in grain size. It's really easy to see missing consistency.

"Seconds count"? In the world where I currently live and work, time is so elastic and flexible that whole months vanish into the ether without anybody noticing. Seconds? In such a society, seconds are an unaffordable luxury, hours desirable but unattainable, while days and weeks are notches on a calendar is in a constant state of flux…….

Now, granted, I do understand the notion behind forgoing food for a week, in order to buy something splendidly extravagant, and have no quarrel with the concept…….

Moreover, - having checked out the link supplied, that little number you have a 'secret crush' on, seems well deserving of your affections.

Good to see you back and engaged, and hope you are feeling a lot better after your trials, tribulations and health struggles….

I'm not so sure he's willing to part with that wonderful HG-1. Besides, it's not a good grinder for using in coarse settings for making French Press, which is what I make more than espresso.

But I appreciate the offer nonetheless!

So I gather; a beautiful, if rather demanding device, from what I have read…..

It's not only no good for anything but espresso...it's useless for anything except espresso. Not a good choice for anyone using more than one coffee production method...unless you are able to go for more than one grinder.

I read you, loud and clear….

Fat chance!

----------



Ok, you know you have a coffee problem when your grinder has its settings password protected!

Brilliant. Just brilliant….

I just looked at "the little beauty"...that is one sweet little item.

I understand your point about the time necessary to do the grinding as an issue. I certainly can't taste the difference between a 15 second grind and a 25 second grind...but I don't doubt that you can.

My grinder, turning the handle at a comfortable pace, takes about 20-25 seconds to grind 16 grams. I do wonder if the speed of your grinder suggests a faster burr speed (mine is about 125 rpm)...do you feel that you are paying any price in bean grind quality because of the increased heat produced in a faster burr speed?

Wow. This conversation is getting a little…….technical……but remains highly informative….

 

[Kurwenal]

I just reached the landmark of having completed my 200th roast.

A beautiful Vienna roast of 240 Grams of Liquid Amber Blend.

Now about 4 days rest for this special batch....

Outstanding. Congratulations, and kudos.

"Seconds count"? In the world where I currently live and work, time is so elastic and flexible that whole months vanish into the ether without anybody noticing. Seconds? In such a society, seconds are an unaffordable luxury, hours desirable but unattainable, while days and weeks are notches on a calendar is in a constant state of flux…….

True, true. But, when making a coffee, everything is different, right? There is The Ritual, and there is everything else, the world.

 

[powerslave12r]

Going back to the Rancilio Rocky, can someone comment if it's the best grinder (for that money) if I'm planning to maintain my 90 : 10 ratio of drip to espresso?

thanks

 

[Shrink]

Going back to the Rancilio Rocky, can someone comment if it's the best grinder (for that money) if I'm planning to maintain my 90 : 10 ratio of drip to espresso?

thanks

Even if you only use it for a small amount of espresso...you will have a FAR superior grinder for all your grinding. Pour over also requires a top notch grinder. And you are future proofing yourself for any changes that might occur over a long time period in your production methods.

At the end of the day...getting the best grinder that you can afford is the best idea, irrespective of current production patterns.

Stuff changes...and it has been said that there is no such thing as "overkill" when it comes to grinders.

 

[powerslave12r]

Even if you only use it for a small amount of espresso...you will have a FAR superior grinder for all your grinding. Pour over also requires a top notch grinder. And you are future proofing yourself for any changes that might occur over a long time period in your production methods.

At the end of the day...getting the best grinder that you can afford is the best idea, irrespective of current production patterns.

Stuff changes...and it has been said that there is no such thing as "overkill" when it comes to grinders.

Agreed, but I'm just trying to weigh in the options that currently stand at:

1. Baratza Encore
2. Baratza Virtuo Preciso
3. Breville Smart Grinder
4. Rancilio Rocky

Considering that I'm looking for something to give me two solid mugs of coffee each morning.

 

[Shrink]

Agreed, but I'm just trying to weigh in the options that currently stand at:

1. Baratza Encore
2. Baratza Virtuo Preciso
3. Breville Smart Grinder
4. Rancilio Rocky

Considering that I'm looking for something to give me two solid mugs of coffee each morning.

First, my personal experience is with the Rocky...so other comments are just based on reading the Amazon provided information.

You know that I think the Encore is not the greatest choice....so we won't go over that again.

The Precisio looks nice, and maybe others have experience with it and can give you a more useful review. All I can say is that since it is really not that much less expensive than the Rocky...well, you see where I'm going. If others think it is as good, or better, than the Rocky, save the money. Otherwise...

The Breville would be ruled out by two issues...first, I don't like automatic anything (OK, that's just my idiosyncrasy...so not important), and of MUCH more significance is that I strongly recommend a doserless grinder that dispenses directly into the PF...not into a bin. Whatever remains in the bin after dosing will be wasted, as you won't want to use grinds that have been sitting in a bin, and will be tossed. The Rule of 15s says ground coffee goes stale after 15 minutes (and Kurmenal feels it starts going stale after 3 seconds!).

So, unless there are some very high praise for the Precisio...I'm still with the Rocky.