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Yes, The Rocky and Baby Gaggia is what I have right now. My concerns with the Gaggia are the lack of a E61 group head and I'm not sure what is has for a heat exchanger or boiler and would like something proven, powerful and reliable. Plus, I like new toys as well. :D

Since I've been practicing on pulling just espresso, and no fancy milk-based drinks, my skills are getting better at timing and extraction as well as dialing in the grind setting. However, I really don't have anything to compare my work against, such as a nearby barista who knows what they're doing. So comparing myself with myself isn't really a comparison, other than if I find the taste to be good, I think I'm doing well. Of course if I pulled a shot that I thought was good and you or Shrink tasted it, I might find that I'm not in the ballpark. Of course, this is a different problem aside from upgrading my machine.

Still, reading your posts, I'm impressed.

Re our mutual friend @Shrink, while I don't doubt that his palate for exceedingly good espresso is as discerning as ever, the fact that, these days, he mainly uses a French Press might serve to allow for a greater degree of flexibility in what he is prepared to admit to the definition of what constitutes 'good coffee', or 'good espresso'.
 
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Cafelat Tamper: Royal 58.35 mm VST - Strada

VST Precision Insert Baskets

Yep, always use fresh coffee, otherwise, what's the point right? lol Water is filtered water with a Brita pitcher/filter.

Well, I can see the hand of Shrink...... :)

So, first, why upgrade your machine? You are focused on making just one espresso....no more than 30 seconds of flow. But you want that flow to be absolutely as consistent as possible, especially in terms of pressure and temperature. We all have written a lot in this thread about fanatical consistency being one key to making espresso. You want to be fanatically consistent about that water, again, especially pressure and temperature. You want the last drop of your pull to be the exact same pressure and temperature as your first drop. That is harder than it sounds.....and is really the key point of a home machine. I'll bet that if you take your thermocouple and test your water temp at the beginning and end of a shot, on your Baby, the first drop might (big might, actually) be, let's just pick a number, 202.5 degrees, but your last drop is probably 160 or the like. And the pressure drop is probably even worse. Nothing against the Baby, great machine, but the question before us is whether spending up to $2,000 will produce a better pull, and why. (This temperature instability almost always produces a sour shot...so with an upgrade you may have to unlearn some bad habits you learned to counteract that sourness....don't be surprised if the first 50 shots you pull on an upgraded machine taste like crap.)

Many features of machines as you climb up the price ladder don't matter to you. You don't need to pull 30 shots in a row....you don't need to make 10 lattes....you don't need to make a ristretto. So, I would suggest that you keep in mind, as you think "oh, the next machine is only $300 more," that those added features very well mean nothing to the one shot you are trying to pull.

Back to our "last drop same as first drop" issue. Lots of things go into this, the pump, boiler size and material, the brew group, cleanliness, etc. Many, many things. But, in general, here are the major "jumps" up:

1. E61 brew group.
2. PID or something similar.
3. Seriously upgraded machine guts....pump, boiler, etc.
4. Ludicrous stuff.

There is more to it than that, obviously, but, at a high level, I think those are the four "big jumps" in ensuring the last drop is the same as the first drop.

The Appartemento gives you #1 and #2. I think the E61 is overrated, frankly, and it won't change your life. But, it is far better than your current kit, especially in terms of temperature stability. It really is about as good as you can do, in respect of the brew group, until you get up into #4, where the freaks do things like make the brew group actually part of a big ass boiler....

The Premium Plus has some advantages, but, in my view, nothing that will change your pull of that one shot. Most importantly, it does not give you #3 or #4. It does have a PID, the Appartemento does not, but for one shot it doesn't matter. The Appartemento will take some time to heat up, but, when it does, just flush the group head and that heat exchanger will be more than enough for up to 30 seconds of nearly consistent temp water. I will bet you see less than 5 degrees of drop off, which for a sub $2000 machine is pretty damn good.

So, in my view, as between those two machines, buy the Appartemento, save your $500 and start saving for a grinder upgrade. Once you buy the Rocket, your grinder will become your weakest link. And I say that even though I love the Rocky and freely recommend it. After you use the Rocket for a year or so, you will want to look at something better, such as a Mazzer Mini (hiya Shrink!).

Steve
 
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@Kurwenal and @Shrink Thank you for the advice and detailed responses.

The fact of me making only one espresso, or maybe two at a time, does weigh on me given the price ranges of these great machines, and $2,000 is a lot to swallow for that. $1,300 to $1,500 is still a lot but doesn't feel like it will hurt nearly as bad. However, these aren't cheap machines and should last a lifetime at home and provide excellent performance and value.

But, I do want a better quality and consistent machine even for just one or two shots. The Baby Class is my second espresso machine since I started down this journey in 2013. The first was an $80 De Longhi... It was good for a newbie like me I suppose but as time goes on, I want to upgrade as my skills slowly improve.

Shrink also recommended that I consider the Expobar that he had previous to the Londinium. https://www.wholelattelove.com/products/expobar-office-lever-semi-automatic-espresso-machine
 
The Expobar is, in my mind, akin to the Rocky: very common, highly reviewed. You can't go wrong, with the Expobar or the Appartemento. Both will require time to heat up (30 minutes I would guess, Shrink would know better), and both are noisy, but so are all machines in this class. I would go with whichever I could find on sale.

I have just always been partial to Rockets. Why? No idea.
 
Still, reading your posts, I'm impressed.

Re our mutual friend @Shrink, while I don't doubt that his palate for exceedingly good espresso is as discerning as ever, the fact that, these days, he mainly uses a French Press might serve to allow for a greater degree of flexibility in what he is prepared to admit to the definition of what constitutes 'good coffee', or 'good espresso'.

Greater flexibility!? Moi?! Foolish young man.

I still consider (he said somewhat defensively) espresso to be this non plus ultra of coffee. Having said that, I don't think that I ever suggested that there weren't other ways of making excellent coffee... Be it drip, pour over, press, or any other variant. I have always maintained (he said somewhat defensively ) that all that is essential for really good coffee are high quality, fresh coffee beans and an excellent grinder. The production method comes a somewhat distant third to the above two.

So, I don't really think that I have changed my definition of what constitutes good coffee (he said somewhat defensively)

:rolleyes: o_O
 
Actually, @Kurwenal, have you seen the La Marzocco Linea Mini - and, if so, have you any thoughts on it? (Essentially, a baby sister or brother to your GS/3).

I have only seen the Mini in a store; I have never used it. And, I am still sort of scratching my head about the market for the Mini. Are there those out there who will pay $4000 but not $7000 for an espresso machine? Certainly. But, my guess is that anyone who is crazy enough to go past about $3000 in machine price is going to go all the way up to a GS/3. Why? The Mini lacks one of GS/3's best features: user selected brew temp. Not "hotter" or "colder" like most machines, but you dial in the exact temp you want and the GS/3 obeys. They dropped this from the Mini.

So, will there be those who can afford only the Mini and will buy it for that reason? Yep. But, I think the crazies will still go for the GS/3 and I wonder if there is enough of a market out there for a $4000 machine that is just a step or two up from a $3000 Rocket. I say that with great respect for LM, and, again, never having used one.

Of course, paying north of $3000 for a fancy water pump is pretty much absurd on its face, so I am drawing fine distinctions within a group of nutty people. As I believe I have said previously, if I had the choice between (a) a GS/3 and no money in my pocket or (b) a Rocket R59v2 and $4000 in my pocket, I would choose (b) every time. I love the GS/3, but making better espresso than my Rocket requires many, many hours of futzing and playing, which is fun. But, had it not been a gift, I would not own it.

Speaking of the GS/3, here is the beastie just now.....it is cleaning day.

FullSizeRender%202.jpg
 
I have only seen the Mini in a store; I have never used it. And, I am still sort of scratching my head about the market for the Mini. Are there those out there who will pay $4000 but not $7000 for an espresso machine? Certainly. But, my guess is that anyone who is crazy enough to go past about $3000 in machine price is going to go all the way up to a GS/3. Why? The Mini lacks one of GS/3's best features: user selected brew temp. Not "hotter" or "colder" like most machines, but you dial in the exact temp you want and the GS/3 obeys. They dropped this from the Mini.

So, will there be those who can afford only the Mini and will buy it for that reason? Yep. But, I think the crazies will still go for the GS/3 and I wonder if there is enough of a market out there for a $4000 machine that is just a step or two up from a $3000 Rocket. I say that with great respect for LM, and, again, never having used one.

Of course, paying north of $3000 for a fancy water pump is pretty much absurd on its face, so I am drawing fine distinctions within a group of nutty people. As I believe I have said previously, if I had the choice between (a) a GS/3 and no money in my pocket or (b) a Rocket R59v2 and $4000 in my pocket, I would choose (b) every time. I love the GS/3, but making better espresso than my Rocket requires many, many hours of futzing and playing, which is fun. But, had it not been a gift, I would not own it.

Speaking of the GS/3, here is the beastie just now.....it is cleaning day.

FullSizeRender%202.jpg

Hey... that's what my kitchen looks like when I'm cleaning my Bodum press!:eek:
 
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With all the great advice today I went ahead and ordered the Expobar Office Lever Semi-Automatic and a new knock box - a larger one than I have now.

I went with the Expobar over the Rocket for a couple of reasons. One the price was less expensive by a few hundred dollars and two the Rocket won't be available until July 29th. I don't like waiting for new toys! :p

When I tried to place the order online with Whole Latte Love it kept rejecting the card saying that the billing address didn't match what the bank had on file. WTH? I went back and verified it, several times, and tried ordering it and it never went through. Then I had the sinking suspicion that somehow my card was charged anyway, even though I had no confirmation from WLL. I logged into the Visa account and sure enough there were six $1,300 charges in the temporary authorizations!

I called WLL and the very nice lady was able to help out and cleared the temporary auths for me and the Visa should be free and clear tomorrow or the next day. That nearly wiped out my total available credit on that card. Yikes! But it didn't leave enough to re-place an order today. That's okay because she said it wouldn't ship today anyhow since it was later in the day and that it would go out tomorrow. So WLL will charge the card, once, tomorrow and ship the order.

She even gave me 10% off the order for my trouble which was very nice. I was using the JULY7 code for 7% off and she just added the extra 3% to make it 10%. WLL has a reputation for having great customer service and it showed again today.

They're in upstate New York and I'm in Michigan so shipping time should be only 2 or 3 days she said.

opt-office-lever.jpg Rattleware-Basic-Knock-Box_-Maple-Holder.jpg
 
With all the great advice today I went ahead and ordered the Expobar Office Lever Semi-Automatic and a new knock box - a larger one than I have now.

I went with the Expobar over the Rocket for a couple of reasons. One the price was less expensive by a few hundred dollars and two the Rocket won't be available until July 29th. I don't like waiting for new toys! :p

When I tried to place the order online with Whole Latte Love it kept rejecting the card saying that the billing address didn't match what the bank had on file. WTH? I went back and verified it, several times, and tried ordering it and it never went through. Then I had the sinking suspicion that somehow my card was charged anyway, even though I had no confirmation from WLL. I logged into the Visa account and sure enough there were six $1,300 charges in the temporary authorizations!

I called WLL and the very nice lady was able to help out and cleared the temporary auths for me and the Visa should be free and clear tomorrow or the next day. That nearly wiped out my total available credit on that card. Yikes! But it didn't leave enough to re-place an order today. That's okay because she said it wouldn't ship today anyhow since it was later in the day and that it would go out tomorrow. So WLL will charge the card, once, tomorrow and ship the order.

She even gave me 10% off the order for my trouble which was very nice. I was using the JULY7 code for 7% off and she just added the extra 3% to make it 10%. WLL has a reputation for having great customer service and it showed again today.

They're in upstate New York and I'm in Michigan so shipping time should be only 2 or 3 days she said.

View attachment 639043 View attachment 639044

Wow! Big day on the equipment front for @SandboxGeneral!

Congratulations, Mate. I wish you all the fun and great coffee that you can get from your new toy. :D

And another tip of the hat to @SandboxGeneral for recommending the Dessert Oasis Columbia Huila Bellavista - Limited Espresso beans. Just to prove the old adage saying "good beans is good beans"...they make a wonderful cup of press.
 
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Wow! Big day on the equipment front for @SandboxGeneral!

Congratulations, Mate. I wish you all the fun and great coffee that you can get from your new toy. :D

And another tip of the hat to @SandboxGeneral for recommending the Dessert Oasis Columbia Huila Bellavista - Limited Espresso beans. Just to prove the old adage saying "good beans is good beans"...they make a wonderful cup of press.
I'm super glad you like the Dessert Oasis beans. I think there is good reason why they placed second in a national competition with those beans.

Also had a pleasant surprise when I arrived home from work. The Le Creuset espresso cups, saucers and teaspoon were waiting for me. I didn't know when to expect them because the tracking information kept saying 'delivery date unknown.'

Now I have matching French Press, mug, espresso cups, saucers and teaspoon.
20160705_201925078_iOS.jpg
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Ahh yes, I forgot to comment on the ludicrous level... That's my favorite scene from Spaceballs too! It was just on TV last week and I took it in again for probably the hundredth time.
 
With all the great advice today I went ahead and ordered the Expobar Office Lever Semi-Automatic and a new knock box - a larger one than I have now.

I went with the Expobar over the Rocket for a couple of reasons. One the price was less expensive by a few hundred dollars and two the Rocket won't be available until July 29th. I don't like waiting for new toys! :p

When I tried to place the order online with Whole Latte Love it kept rejecting the card saying that the billing address didn't match what the bank had on file. WTH? I went back and verified it, several times, and tried ordering it and it never went through. Then I had the sinking suspicion that somehow my card was charged anyway, even though I had no confirmation from WLL. I logged into the Visa account and sure enough there were six $1,300 charges in the temporary authorizations!

I called WLL and the very nice lady was able to help out and cleared the temporary auths for me and the Visa should be free and clear tomorrow or the next day. That nearly wiped out my total available credit on that card. Yikes! But it didn't leave enough to re-place an order today. That's okay because she said it wouldn't ship today anyhow since it was later in the day and that it would go out tomorrow. So WLL will charge the card, once, tomorrow and ship the order.

She even gave me 10% off the order for my trouble which was very nice. I was using the JULY7 code for 7% off and she just added the extra 3% to make it 10%. WLL has a reputation for having great customer service and it showed again today.

They're in upstate New York and I'm in Michigan so shipping time should be only 2 or 3 days she said.

View attachment 639043 View attachment 639044

Congrats on ordering the Expobar Office Semi-Automatic - it looks and sounds brilliant. Terrific story,and thanks for sharing.

I am really interested in hearing what you have to say about it - and the coffee you make with it - once you take delivery of it.

I'm super glad you like the Dessert Oasis beans. I think there is good reason why they placed second in a national competition with those beans.

Also had a pleasant surprise when I arrived home from work. The Le Creuset espresso cups, saucers and teaspoon were waiting for me. I didn't know when to expect them because the tracking information kept saying 'delivery date unknown.'

Now I have matching French Press, mug, espresso cups, saucers and teaspoon.
View attachment 639065

That picture reminds me of my time in Georgia, (Caucasus Georgia).

Immediately after the conflict (Georgia and Russia) - in August 2008 - as a result of the Sarkozy Medvedev agreement, an EU mission was deployed to Georgia (in September 2008) to monitor the ceasefire agreement (among other things). I was asked to travel there with a little over a week's notice.

Anyway, most of the EU countries contributed personnel, and I discovered some fellow coffee aficionados. A police officer from the UK brought his very impressive espresso machine back from leave - and a number of us formed a coffee club. We named the coffee club after the field office where we were serving at the time - a few months later, I was transferred to mission HQ.

The price of admittance to this club - an expression of serious intent - was the purchase of an espresso cup (and matching saucer) from the Villeroy & Boch shop in Tbilisi (and they had an amazing range of fantastic, and quite beautifully exquisite espresso coffee cups) as Tbilisi was where we went on our leave days.

So, on certain days - by arrangement, and by invitation, issued by the UK police officer, as he played host in his room with his superb espresso machine - water, sugar, and biscuits were also laid out - a number of us would turn up with our espresso cups - and have a cup of what was quite exquisite espresso in a country where obtaining a decent cup of coffee - outside of a few restaurants which catered to ex-pats, and the up-market hotels (to which we repaired on leave days) - was - at the time - exceptionally difficult.
 
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I know quite a few folks are partial to Ethiopian sourced coffee (for good reason) - and this is slightly off topic - but there's a terrific show called Anthony Bourdain: Parts Unknown, one of my favorite food related shows (and personalities), and in Season 6, Episode 6, he travels to Ethiopia, and coffee (served salted), is part of the very local experience.

I found it incredibly fascinating to see coffee in the context of that culture.

(slight warning: there's a cultural element that involves goats, it's mildly graphic)
 
I know quite a few folks are partial to Ethiopian sourced coffee (for good reason) - and this is slightly off topic - but there's a terrific show called Anthony Bourdain: Parts Unknown, one of my favorite food related shows (and personalities), and in Season 6, Episode 6, he travels to Ethiopia, and coffee (served salted), is part of the very local experience.

I found it incredibly fascinating to see coffee in the context of that culture.

(slight warning: there's a cultural element that involves goats, it's mildly graphic)

Yes, I love watching Anthony Bourdain's show as well. I've seen them all and have the DVR set to record it when it comes on. I think there was an episode where he visited some coffee farms in Central or South America too; its been a while since I've seen that one.


Major thanks to you and @Shrink for your fanatical, most informative advice. :)
 
With all the great advice today I went ahead and ordered the Expobar Office Lever Semi-Automatic and a new knock box - a larger one than I have now.

I went with the Expobar over the Rocket for a couple of reasons. One the price was less expensive by a few hundred dollars and two the Rocket won't be available until July 29th. I don't like waiting for new toys! :p

When I tried to place the order online with Whole Latte Love it kept rejecting the card saying that the billing address didn't match what the bank had on file. WTH? I went back and verified it, several times, and tried ordering it and it never went through. Then I had the sinking suspicion that somehow my card was charged anyway, even though I had no confirmation from WLL. I logged into the Visa account and sure enough there were six $1,300 charges in the temporary authorizations!

I called WLL and the very nice lady was able to help out and cleared the temporary auths for me and the Visa should be free and clear tomorrow or the next day. That nearly wiped out my total available credit on that card. Yikes! But it didn't leave enough to re-place an order today. That's okay because she said it wouldn't ship today anyhow since it was later in the day and that it would go out tomorrow. So WLL will charge the card, once, tomorrow and ship the order.

She even gave me 10% off the order for my trouble which was very nice. I was using the JULY7 code for 7% off and she just added the extra 3% to make it 10%. WLL has a reputation for having great customer service and it showed again today.

They're in upstate New York and I'm in Michigan so shipping time should be only 2 or 3 days she said.

View attachment 639043 View attachment 639044

Enjoy this fabulous looking machine when it arrives, and I look forward to reading many tales of coffee and espresso making; please post step by step pictures, when you receive it and start making espresso.

Anyway, well done, and I hope you get to enjoy espresso from it for many years to come.
 
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Enjoy this fabulous looking machine when it arrives, and I look forward to reading many tales of coffee and espresso making; please post step by step pictures, when you receive it and start making espresso.

Anyway, well done, and I hope you get to enjoy espresso from it for many years to come.
Thank you, I most certainly will enjoy it, and the process of learning the new machine and how to operate it. No doubt I'll have many questions and comments about it, and I know I can ask Shrink since he had the same one previous to his Londinium manual. Of course, he's old now and his mind is turning to porridge so he may not remember everything, but he has promised me that he'll at least make something up instead of providing an answer. o_O

As you request, I'll take many photos and document the new machines arrival and beginnings; that will be fun too.
 
Thank you, I most certainly will enjoy it, and the process of learning the new machine and how to operate it. No doubt I'll have many questions and comments about it, and I know I can ask Shrink since he had the same one previous to his Londinium manual. Of course, he's old now and his mind is turning to porridge so he may not remember everything, but he has promised me that he'll at least make something up instead of providing an answer. o_O

As you request, I'll take many photos and document the new machines arrival and beginnings; that will be fun too.

I'm laughing reading your reply.

To be quite candid, I am not sure that our mutual friend's (namely, @Shrink) mind is turning to porridge quite just yet....

But, yes, coffee toys are always fun.

I look forward to the photos, when the wonderful machine is delivered - and thank you for bringing my mind back to the Bazaleti Coffee Club - we had some good fun drinking espresso - meticulously made with great expertise, and attention to detail - by the British police officer, and chatting and bonding over espresso. (Another rule in that club was that no two people were supposed to buy the same espresso cup - so we had a very eclectic selection of espresso cups, all by Villeroy & Boch, and many of them very beautiful.)
 
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Do any of you get acid reflux? I wish coffee was better for the stomach.

I do not. If I had acid reflux, I would probably just skip coffee. That said, there are lower acidic coffees out there. Sumatran coffee tends to be lower acidic, and the processing, roasting and prep methods matter a lot. Stay away from espresso. Your best bet would be French Press made with a cloth filter....easy to find. And, ask a local roaster what is their lowest acid coffee. I have seen blends that advertise themselves as "very low acid" and the like.
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Of course, he's old now and his mind is turning to porridge so he may not remember everything, but he has promised me that he'll at least make something up instead of providing an answer. o_O

And I can see Shrink the Mad Scientist cackling with glee....."more water...you need more water...pour some directly into your cup."
 
I must say that I am hugely enjoying @SandboxGeneral's purchase of an (upgraded) espresso machine vicariously. Great fun, and I almost wish I was waiting for such a thing myself.

Indeed, I spent a happy had hour torturing myself - that sort of exquisite torture that some twisted souls mistakenly confuse with joy - with reviews (and suchlike) of the La Marzocco GS/3 an the La Marzocco Linea Mini.
 
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I must say that I am hugely enjoying @SandboxGeneral's purchase of an (upgraded) espresso machine vicariously. Great fun, and I almost wish I was waiting for such a thing myself.

Indeed, I spent a happy had hour torturing myself - that sort of exquisite torture that some twisted souls mistakenly confuse with joy - with reviews (and suchlike) of the La Marzocco GS/3 an the La Marzocco Linea Mini.
Likewise, I'm enjoying the anticipation of receiving it too. Between bouts of actually having to work today, I've been looking at review and how-to videos about the Expobar to get ideas of what to expect from it.

I'm also considering buying some junky, dark roast beans for practicing with, not for consumption. I don't like the idea of practicing a lot with good, high quality beans and dumping the shots out as I get acclimated to the new machine.
 
I do not. If I had acid reflux, I would probably just skip coffee. That said, there are lower acidic coffees out there. Sumatran coffee tends to be lower acidic, and the processing, roasting and prep methods matter a lot. Stay away from espresso. Your best bet would be French Press made with a cloth filter....easy to find. And, ask a local roaster what is their lowest acid coffee. I have seen blends that advertise themselves as "very low acid" and the like.
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And I can see Shrink the Mad Scientist cackling with glee....."more water...you need more water...pour some directly into your cup."

Has anyone tried Puroast? It's low acid.

They have a French blend. Might try it.
 
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