MP 7,1 Estimated age of 2019 Mac Pro is *12 years 4 months*?!

[guitarman777]

My workplace purchased an Apple refurbished 2019 Mac Pro back in 2021 or thereabouts for audio recording and post-production. Base model 3.5GHz Xeon 8-core; we upgraded the RAM to four 32GB sticks for 128 total and also installed two large-format SSDs (one for boot drive and the other for data), all from OWC's Mac Sales. The machine struggles even with a Logic Pro project that doesn't have any VSTs in it whatsoever. The Ableton Live projects I build on a weekly basis have to re-buffer all the audio if they've got a still-indeterminate amount of audio files to pull and I've switched my focus away from Live to another application, even if just for a split second. Tasks and process which, to my mind, this thing should handle with ease are tediously and frustratingly slow. I know the Xeon processor is a bit of an older beast and it's a server processor, but I really don't understand why its real-world performance is only meagerly better than the 2016 MacBook Pro I had previously.

I contacted the brother of a bandmate who has an Apple tech troubleshooting & repair consultation business to see if there's a reason this thing struggles so much, and upon reviewing the report from his hardware monitoring software, the apparent age of the machine (which was originally built in 2019) is 12 years 4 months. Either this thing has made like Tony Stark and cracked the space-time continuum, or something is really, really wrong.

The machine was not set up via Migration; I manually imported all my documents and data and installed every single non-preinstalled app myself over the course of 2-3 weeks to ensure I had salvaged everything from the old laptop. It's not even the first time I've gone that route vs. Migration Assistant, so in my mind there's no way it would have reason to think it's over 12 years old.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Ever seen anything like it?

 

[m1maverick]

The hardware monitoring software is not correctly identifying your system and is likely reporting something it thinks is 12 years old.

As for the performance issue there are a few things I can recommend:

• Investigate how to use "Performance Monitor" to check processor, memory, and other component utilization. Do so when you're performing the task(s) which exhibit the performance issue.
• Check with the software vendor to see what their recommendations are to ensure proper performance.
• Along with the above if you can find a forum specific for that software ask if they have any ideas. Users of the software in question can be the best source of troubleshooting information.

HTH

 

[guitarman777]

The hardware monitoring software is not correctly identifying your system and is likely reporting something it thinks is 12 years old.

As for the performance issue there are a few things I can recommend:

• Investigate how to use "Performance Monitor" to check processor, memory, and other component utilization. Do so when you're performing the task(s) which exhibit the performance issue.
• Check with the software vendor to see what their recommendations are to ensure proper performance.
• Along with the above if you can find a forum specific for that software ask if they have any ideas. Users of the software in question can be the best source of troubleshooting information.

HTH

Hmm. Everything else in the monitoring software is registering as fine and/or accurate to what's in the machine.

I'm familiar with Performance Monitor. Haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary. I've been on the horn with senior advisors from Apple Support multiple times. The main trouble spot is Logic Pro, which is Apple's own software.

 

[DeltaMac]

What version of macOS are you now running?

 

[guitarman777]

What version of macOS are you now running?

Ventura 13.2.1

 

[rm5]

Either this thing has made like Tony Stark and cracked the space-time continuum, or something is really, really wrong.

Something is really, REALLY, wong.

Have you tried reinstalling macOS? What about installing an older version like Big Sur?

 

[m1maverick]

Hmm. Everything else in the monitoring software is registering as fine and/or accurate to what's in the machine.

It's your opinion this software is correctly reporting the age of your system?

 

[guitarman777]

Something is really, REALLY, wong.

Have you tried reinstalling macOS? What about installing an older version like Big Sur?

I have not. It would potentially be worth doing though...

 

[guitarman777]

It's your opinion this software is correctly reporting the age of your system?

I said "everything else in the monitoring software is registering as fine." Based on the monitoring I've done with Activity Monitor, system reports that have been reviewed by senior advisors at Apple Support, and this report from the consultant, there doesn't appear to be anything else that's having an issue.

 

[Algr]

Perhaps some component that you have installed in your machine is used, and actually is 12 years old. Check ram, hard drive, and pci card for this.

Also, does this software actually try to measure wear and tear somehow? Or does it simply ask components to report their manufacture dates?

 

[guitarman777]

Perhaps some component that you have installed in your machine is used, and actually is 12 years old. Check ram, hard drive, and pci card for this.

RAM and SSDs were all brand new from OWC as were the PCI card modules for the SSDs. None of that tech could be anywhere near that old based on their specs.

 

[rm5]

I have not. It would potentially be worth doing though...

At least if you back up all your files, Ableton sessions, VST/AAX/AU plugin files, etc. you can just create a Big Sur (or Monterey) USB bootable installer and wipe the whole drive clean and start over. I'd highly recommend doing this, although I completely understand how this is a hassle for you and your work...

 

[prefuse07]

A few questions: Are you running the latest version of Logic? (10.7.8) ?

Also, what interface(s) are you using? How are they connected?

 

[guitarman777]

At least if you back up all your files, Ableton sessions, etc. you can just create a Big Sur (or Monterey) USB bootable installer and wipe the whole drive clean and start over. I'd highly recommend doing this, although I completely understand how this is a hassle for your work...

It wouldn't be my first time around this particular maypole unfortunately. It would be the first time with this machine. Annoying.

 

[guitarman777]

A few questions: Are you running the latest version of Logic? (10.7.8) ?

Also, what interface(s) are you using? How are they connected?

Yes, latest version. I've got a Presonus Quantum 2626 (main interface) and a Universal Audio Apollo Twin Duo (occasionally use for input only, don't use for output these days unless it's for an offsite gig/event). Both devices are up-to-date on their firmware/software. Heck, the UA device won't work at all if the software gets even a whiff that an update's been released. It's crazy.

I believe both are connected via my Caldigit TS3 hub, but I can't remember. The UA for sure would be connected to the hub since it's the older Thunderbolt plug whereas the Quantum has the newer USB-C style connector. I'll have to check. But I don't see either device being the issue based on how high the CPU is working, and I tend to work in 48k rather than 96k to keep the load down.

 

[prefuse07]

Yes, latest version. I've got a Presonus Quantum 2626 (main interface) and a Universal Audio Apollo Twin Duo (occasionally use for input only, don't use for output these days unless it's for an offsite gig/event). Both devices are up-to-date on their firmware/software. Heck, the UA device won't work at all if the software gets even a whiff that an update's been released. It's crazy.

I believe both are connected via my Caldigit TS3 hub, but I can't remember. The UA for sure would be connected to the hub since it's the older Thunderbolt plug whereas the Quantum has the newer USB-C style connector. I'll have to check. But I don't see either device being the issue based on how high the CPU is working, and I tend to work in 48k rather than 96k to keep the load down.

Yeah that was gonna be my next questions -- sample rate, since it can bog down Logic, but you've already got that down.

Hmmm...

If you would be open to it, I would recommend a fresh install of macOS 13.1, followed by resintalling everything else, one by one, but I know that this will cause slowdown to your current workflow...

Ventura is a mess, 13.4 started giving me constant kernel panics caused by the well known windowserver crashing.

Based on my experience, I would honestly recommend nothing beyond 13.1 for Ventura.

 

[rm5]

In short, follow @prefuse07's advice.

Also, @guitarman777, what do you mean by "running slow?" Like it crashes when you hit play? It loads VSTs slow? Do you mind explaining a little more—or did I miss something?

 

[0339327]

My workplace purchased an Apple refurbished 2019 Mac Pro back in 2021 or thereabouts for audio recording and post-production. Base model 3.5GHz Xeon 8-core; we upgraded the RAM to four 32GB sticks for 128 total and also installed two large-format SSDs (one for boot drive and the other for data), all from OWC's Mac Sales. The machine struggles even with a Logic Pro project that doesn't have any VSTs in it whatsoever. The Ableton Live projects I build on a weekly basis have to re-buffer all the audio if they've got a still-indeterminate amount of audio files to pull and I've switched my focus away from Live to another application, even if just for a split second. Tasks and process which, to my mind, this thing should handle with ease are tediously and frustratingly slow. I know the Xeon processor is a bit of an older beast and it's a server processor, but I really don't understand why its real-world performance is only meagerly better than the 2016 MacBook Pro I had previously.

I contacted the brother of a bandmate who has an Apple tech troubleshooting & repair consultation business to see if there's a reason this thing struggles so much, and upon reviewing the report from his hardware monitoring software, the apparent age of the machine (which was originally built in 2019) is 12 years 4 months. Either this thing has made like Tony Stark and cracked the space-time continuum, or something is really, really wrong.

The machine was not set up via Migration; I manually imported all my documents and data and installed every single non-preinstalled app myself over the course of 2-3 weeks to ensure I had salvaged everything from the old laptop. It's not even the first time I've gone that route vs. Migration Assistant, so in my mind there's no way it would have reason to think it's over 12 years old.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Ever seen anything like it?

I have a 2019 MacPro. My configuration is much better than yours but you shouldn’t have any of the issues you’re describing. I was able to run FCP quite well on my 2019 16” MBP.

Migration Assistant could sometimes cause problems or there could be some other issues. Also, bad RAM is possible.

Here is a link to my list of 10 Minute Mac Fixes. These are not updated for Apple Silicone but you have an Intel Mac.

If these don’t work, I recommend you get another HDD or SDD and install Big Sur on it and boot from that drive. That is far simpler and easier than performing an erase and reinstall on your primary boot drive. By the way, all these issues could be the result of a bad SDD. You may want to run a speed test on the R/W speeds of your SSD.

10 Minute Mac Fixes.pdf

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[prefuse07]

@guitarman777 Quick question -- have you ran the AHT to check if there are any issues with your hardware?

It's really easy to do:

Disconnect all peripherals, just leave your monitor (and if you're using a wired keyboard) connected.

1. Shut down
2. Power on
3. At the Chime hold cmd + D until the AHT loads up
4. Run the test and see if there are any faults

That should help you pinpoint if maybe your RAM or anything is causing the issue...

At least with this, you can be assured if it is indeed a hardware issue, or maybe it could be Ventura itself (again as I said, it's a total mess, and I would highly advise not going past 13.1).

 

[orionquest]

Just throwing this out there. I suspect it might be the OS as others have mentioned.
Kinda surprised you are on the latest OS release being in a production environment. I would normally stay one release behind then deal with constant update hiccups and bugs, but that is just me.

Also in my experience with later OS's Apple has done something to them to lock down and protect the system, which is great an all, but I've noticed lots of pausing and delays working on simple stuff. Clearly these safety measures are impacting performance and consistency. I've just moved from Mojave to Monterey, and my system before was just fine, needed to update so I could use more up to date software.

If I were to trouble shoot this I would prepare a external drive with multiple OS's installed. Install my main applications (or the main one) into each OS and create a test job with each one. This way I could narrow down where the problem lies. Next I would start removing hardware (if possible) to see if the new upgrades are causing some interference.
It sounds like a bit of work, but I believe is a solid technique. Who knows maybe during the first initial testing the problem will reveal itself.

Either way that setup should handle your workload without issues.

 

[guitarman777]

Yeah that was gonna be my next questions -- sample rate, since it can bog down Logic, but you've already got that down.

Hmmm...

If you would be open to it, I would recommend a fresh install of macOS 13.1, followed by resintalling everything else, one by one, but I know that this will cause slowdown to your current workflow...

Ventura is a mess, 13.4 started giving me constant kernel panics caused by the well known windowserver crashing.

Based on my experience, I would honestly recommend nothing beyond 13.1 for Ventura.

Thing is, I was experiencing the slowness pretty much straightaway when first setting up & using the computer, which means it was originally on Big Sur. I really can't chalk the issues up to the OS. No kernel panics or anything I haven't experienced on a previous version of macOS.

 

[guitarman777]

In short, follow @prefuse07's advice.

Also, @guitarman777, what do you mean by "running slow?" Like it crashes when you hit play? It loads VSTs slow? Do you mind explaining a little more—or did I miss something?

Whenever I switched to a new machine after getting around 3-5 years out of a computer, the new one always performed significantly & noticeably faster. This time around, going from a 2016 MacBook Pro to the 2019 Mac Pro felt like a performance bump of about 15-20% rather than 150-200%. I rarely get actual crashes, but Logic runs slow. Playing & pausing, timeline editing, plugin responses both to being adjusted and level displays, etc. Factor in any VSTs and eventually I have to start freezing tracks because it'll either give me an error where it can't read all the audio data in time or it'll play back at a fraction of the 48k I have the project set to.

 

[profdraper]

Nope, this box is clearly defective in some way.

First, I would zero the boot disk & clean install a Mac OS (the only way apple really gives to sort our such things). Perhaps go back a version and use (say) a final Montery for starters. Having said this, I have had no problems with Ventura 13.4 in relation to the kinds of problems you menttion, nor for any audio of video production.

Remove all third party harware. Blow it away, install fresh OS & on the way through - Zap the PRAM & reset the VMC.

How to reset the NVRAM, PRAM, and SMC on any Mac

If you're experiencing weird glitches with your Mac, doing a reset of your MacBook or desktop Mac could help. Here's how to reset the NVRAM, PRAM, and SMC on either an Intel or M-Series Mac.

www.macworld.com

Perhaps of note, I have noticed from time to time that the VMC reset can avoid a multitude of ills; in the case of the mac pro, this simply involves disconnecting the PSU for 20 secs or so. Given the large amount of hardware connected to my mac in this recording studio, I use a UPS to power the studio, and turn off the entire studio by powering down the UPS.

Then install (say) only a clean Logic Pro; no 3rd party plugs etc. Install drivers for the Quantum, but connect directly to the mac & leave out and hubs etc for now. If possible, perhaps remove the 2nd SSD - then what you have here is a 'virgin' machine or as close as possible.

So, if Logic is now performing more like it should, good. Then start to slowly install or connect other items as required; if it breaks at some point, then there's your problem. I also use Carbon Copy Cloner to make image copies of the boot disk, back it up from time to time at each change & then the last image can easily be rolled back if one of the further steps goes awry.

If the first step - clean install, Logic only, no extra hardware - still goees awry, then indeed you may need to track down a hardware problem. First places I'd look: 3rd party ram; 3rd party SSDs & I can only assume Apple's original boot disk may still be there given that these were not upgradable. In which case, mac os should be booting from that original disk.

Still, this does 'feel' like a software /OS thing.

 

[guitarman777]

I have a 2019 MacPro. My configuration is much better than yours but you shouldn’t have any of the issues you’re describing. I was able to run FCP quite well on my 2019 16” MBP.

Migration Assistant could sometimes cause problems or there could be some other issues. Also, bad RAM is possible.

Here is a link to my list of 10 Minute Mac Fixes. These are not updated for Apple Silicone but you have an Intel Mac.

If these don’t work, I recommend you get another HDD or SDD and install Big Sur on it and boot from that drive. That is far simpler and easier than performing an erase and reinstall on your primary boot drive. By the way, all these issues could be the result of a bad SDD. You may want to run a speed test on the R/W speeds of your SSD.

10 Minute Mac Fixes.pdf

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Thanks kindly. As mentioned in a previous response to another user, I did a fresh install on this machine, no Migration Assistant. I've also already done read/write tests on both SSDs and they're both getting a minimum of 2500MB/sec on both read & write processes with no errors.

Still, I will take a look at your checklist tomorrow when I'm in front of the computer.

 

[guitarman777]

@guitarman777 Quick question -- have you ran the AHT to check if there are any issues with your hardware?

It's really easy to do:

Disconnect all peripherals, just leave your monitor (and if you're using a wired keyboard) connected.

1. Shut down
2. Power on
3. At the Chime hold cmd + D until the AHT loads up
4. Run the test and see if there are any faults

That should help you pinpoint if maybe your RAM or anything is causing the issue...

At least with this, you can be assured if it is indeed a hardware issue, or maybe it could be Ventura itself (again as I said, it's a total mess, and I would highly advise not going past 13.1).

I'm pretty sure I've done this before and gotten a clean report, but I'm willing to try it again.

Also, it's performed at less-than-anticipated capacity since we got it. I'm regretting not making any noise about it then while we were still in a window to do something about it. Right now I feel like we're stuck with little more than a >$7k paperweight.