Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
MP 7,1 Estimated age of 2019 Mac Pro is *12 years 4 months*?!
- Thread starter guitarman777
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Why are you not running the computer off the built-in storage? That's almost certain to give you the best and most reliable performance.
I think because they can't fit all their programs on the internal SSD because it's only 256 GB. At least that's what I remember reading.
Interesting. I never knew that Apple is now enabling TRIM support for third-party SSDs by default. I clearly remember in 2016 when I bought my first third-party SSD to put in my 13-inch mid-2012 MacBook Pro, TRIM support for third-party SSDs was disabled by default. I wonder when the change occurred.
Because the built-in storage is 256GB. My Applications folder alone on that machine is nearly half that. We bought the computer as a refurb as upgrading the storage & RAM ourselves would be substantially cheaper.
Yeah, looks like it's a thing now since SSDs are much more common & standard these days.
I will. It'll probably be another week until I can get to this, and even then I'm not sure as I'm slated for an outside contract gig next Monday. It took us the entire workday to reach the point we did today, and that was just troubleshooting. Fully zeroing out the drive could easily take the entire day. (I should actually look into whether or not OWC has a utility to fully zero out their drives... EDIT: Update, OWC recommends Disk Utility. If we prefer, there are plenty of 3rd party options out there.)
Last edited:
ALL of the media that takes up so much drive space can easily be located somewhere else than the system boot disk - I do this as a matter of course (frees up boot disk size & back-up /restore times; I prefer to have direct control of all of my media, especaily original works, then have a more deliberate & trusthworthy backup scheme for that.
So: All iTunes music, all Photo files, all productivity docs, all video files etc & in your case, the Logic libraries can also be relocated. Works well & certainly make the boot disk easier to manage.
I also notice that the 'new' mac pro offers usable upgradable storage & which appears to be the same form factor as for the 2019 mac pro, but best to check with Apple. Nonetheless, will still be vastly overproced no doubt, and moving your media permanently as per above works well. 256GB is certainly no limitation for running a good, clean OS.
True, but where I get concerned are "support" files (application support, Library, etc.). I'm really unsure that the 256 can accommodate everything I'd need it to, and SSDs tend to get grumpy when they get close to capacity.
If I end up replacing this machine, it'll far more likely be with a Studio rather than the new Mac Pro.
True, these cannot be moved but you might be surprised.. Worth a try if youre going to zero the thing.
Here's my plan:
- Zero it out.
- Install Ventura.
- Install Logic.
- Open up the test project & observe performance.
- Make determinations from there whether or not to use as a boot drive or not. If it's good to go, then yay. Get cracking reinstalling everything. If not, I'll check with OWC as we're still within their 5-year warranty. If we're out of luck there, we'll see if we can make what you mentioned work. I don't want to outright say that I don't think it'll work, but I also want to be realistic about my chances here.
At least for a test, I’d put an OS and the apps you need on the internal disk, and make a test project on there as well. Also remove and/or disconnect all other storage for your test. You can still buy (expensive) internal storage upgrades from Apple for the 2019 Mac Pro if it turns out that’s the only thing that really works.
Yep, I also notice on one of your ealier posts about Logic's slow performance in reading from its data SSD, that 'could' be a clue. All of my media uses SSDs & so this seems very odd. BTW, I would certainly take it up with OWC if related - personally, I have had mixed results with their hardware from time to time, tho' in fairness, I have always found their tech support & warranty to be top notch.
FWIW, I went with 384GB of Nemix ram when I first bought the machine. Zero issues.
Already did! 🙌 It's how we determined the issue wasn't elsewhere in the hardware and is more likely due to an issue with the macOS install on the 2TB or potentially an issue with the 2TB drive itself.
And yeah, the Apple storage upgrades are 'spensive. Precisely why we went the 3rd party route in the first place.
Yep. Our lead IT guy saw the spike in the I/O usage when initiating playback on the Logic project and said, "Whoa. That's not supposed to do that." Also, the delay in stoppage of audio didn't occur at all when we ran the test project from the original 256 drive, so we've got some seriously strong indicators of something being wrong on the OWC SSD. Just have to determine whether it's software or hardware.
I reached out to OWC's support a little while back when I got fed up enough with losing time working with my projects to do something more substantial about it, and they went above and beyond to try to help. I'm pretty confident they'll give us the support we need. (Now that I think about it, they were pretty heavily focused on the drive read/write speeds, which were both performing as expected. Seems they may have been on the right track.)
The RAM performance hasn't appeared any different since we swapped the original 48GB back into the machine earlier today as compared to the 128. We're planning to pop the 128 back in after we get the rest of the machine sorted.
Yes, I do have a couple updates. Got delayed as I've spent a few days working through the reinstallation of everything on this machine following my vacation.
IT zero'd out the drive, reinstalled macOS, and installed Ableton Live and Logic Pro to check the test projects I left them. There are some improvements in performance. I think the overall issue here is trying to do audio on a machine that's got an outdated server CPU (more on the ultimate solutions I've come to related to that later). As for this troubleshooting comparison, my focus has primarily been on my audio production software...
- Ableton Live no longer sees the need to re-buffer audio files in larger projects when switching between it and other applications. This will be a big time saver. It's still really, really slow in doing things like starting up, opening projects, buffering the audio files, etc. as compared to Ableton running on M chipsets, but at this stage I think it's more of an annoyance due to an older machine vs. evidence of a serious problem somewhere (which I do feel like got fixed).
- Logic Pro performs about the same. Still having issues where "the system was unable to process all the audio in time", but the lead IT guy figured out that using all the CPU cores instead of just 2 or 4 was causing a lot of the slowdown (meters not reading in real time with the audio being played back). Maybe Logic either isn't now or wasn't ever truly optimized for multi-core Intel chips, but it definitely runs better when it's only pulling from two cores instead of all 8.
My wife & I have been talking about getting a Mac for ourselves anyway, so last week I went ahead and ordered a Mac Studio M2 Max w/ 96GB of RAM and a 2TB drive for a home studio production setup. I've got enough personal projects in the pipeline right now that it seemed like a good time to just bite that bullet. I look forward to comparing the performance between the Studio and this Pro, and it might be some solid ammunition to bring to my IT dept. in order to lobby for replacing this Pro, which we'd repurpose into an Ableton Live workstation on which I can train my colleagues so we don't feel like we've wasted thousands of dollars on it.
(Final note: reinstalling everything and getting settings put back the way you want after making little tweaks over time to a particular computer SUCKS. I'm still finding things that aren't configured to my previously streamlined workflow. Ugh. 🤣 )
Odd for sure, as a professor of music technology (now retired), I've been invloved with many hundreds of mac installs over the years in university recording studios, labs & staff desktops - and this business about 'outdated server CPU' related to relatively low loads from apps like Logic & Live does not at all ring true. Logic has always gone 'like the clappers' & on mac pros far older than this, using all its cores etc. On the 7.1 in particular, 8, 12 & 16 cores have been very common in the recording studios. Zero issues re. what you are saying.
Fortunatelly, your employers bought the box, not you eh? In our case over the years, we always had onsite support from Apple & in the case where hardware was defective this usually got replaced fairly quickly (seemed to be most common on the odd iMac in our labs & never with the pro towers). Even now, I have a 5.1 mac pro in service still running well under Mojave with Logic, ProTools, Cubase, Live, etc. The audio peeformance is still quite good but with film work it remains fairly hopeless. So yes, your IT department should be attending to this under warranty (even with a refurb) & what you describe here is certainly 'not normal' in my experience - CPU or not.
Good move then to update to a Mac Studio & only likely that Rosetta might get in the way with some plugins etc. And otherwise, yes, these long winded re-installs are dreadful, a sign of the true silliness that is MacOS (even more silly & intrusive these days, post-Mojave). Round & round & round & Apple never really gives us an obvious way in, its all just 'magical' BS & if something does go wrong, we always end up with this ***** (zero the hard disk, re-install everything, pat your head at the same time as rubbing your belly, & generally swear loudly at the computer and at smarmy-faced Apple - very unlike various Win installs and fixes where there actuallt is an answer & seemingly a comnand line for everything). Fortunately, a complex studio install rarely goes wrong on a MacPro ...
"If operating systems were like airlines" & the ones we've run (a blast from the past):
Fortunatelly, your employers bought the box, not you eh? In our case over the years, we always had onsite support from Apple & in the case where hardware was defective this usually got replaced fairly quickly (seemed to be most common on the odd iMac in our labs & never with the pro towers). Even now, I have a 5.1 mac pro in service still running well under Mojave with Logic, ProTools, Cubase, Live, etc. The audio peeformance is still quite good but with film work it remains fairly hopeless. So yes, your IT department should be attending to this under warranty (even with a refurb) & what you describe here is certainly 'not normal' in my experience - CPU or not.
Good move then to update to a Mac Studio & only likely that Rosetta might get in the way with some plugins etc. And otherwise, yes, these long winded re-installs are dreadful, a sign of the true silliness that is MacOS (even more silly & intrusive these days, post-Mojave). Round & round & round & Apple never really gives us an obvious way in, its all just 'magical' BS & if something does go wrong, we always end up with this ***** (zero the hard disk, re-install everything, pat your head at the same time as rubbing your belly, & generally swear loudly at the computer and at smarmy-faced Apple - very unlike various Win installs and fixes where there actuallt is an answer & seemingly a comnand line for everything). Fortunately, a complex studio install rarely goes wrong on a MacPro ...
"If operating systems were like airlines" & the ones we've run (a blast from the past):
Mac Air: All the stewards, captains, baggage handlers, and ticket agents look and act exactly the same. Every time you ask questions about details, you are gently but firmly told that you don’t need to know, don’t want to know, and everything will be done for you without your ever having to know, so just shut up & watch the movie.
Windows Air: The terminal is neat and clean, the attendants courteous, the pilots capable. The fleet of Lear jets the carrier operates is immense. Your jet takes off without a hitch, pushes above the clouds and, at 20,000 feet, explodes without warning.
Linux Air: Disgruntled employees of other OS airlines decide to start their own. They build the planes, ticket counters, and pave the runways themselves. They charge a small fee to cover the cost of printing the ticket, but you can also download and print the ticket yourself. When you board the plane, you are given a seat, four bolts, a wrench and a copy of the seat-HOWTO.html. Once settled, the fully adjustable seat is very comfortable, the plane leaves and arrives on time without a single problem, the in-flight meal is wonderful. You try to tell customers of the other airlines about the great trip, but all they can say is, “You had to do what with the seat?”
Last edited:
Agree with @profdraper. Yea, something was done to that box. It just does not add up.
Yep. These clappers ain't cutting through the mix, so to speak. To be fair, I'm the danged Murphy's Law of bizarre tech issues. I'm one of very few power users at my workplace, so my issues are frequently unique. I can't help but wonder if we screwed ourselves over by going with the different boot drive when we should've just gone extra with the storage right from the refurb store.
My workplace bought the Mac Pro, yes. Unfortunately we're already outside our warranty window on this machine as far as I know, so I don't believe we have any other recourse other than our own continued troubleshooting.
I'm really looking forward to the Studio. Fortunately there's only a couple plugins in my library that will have to take the Rosetta route, and their updates to full M-compatibility are imminent based on what their respective devs have already updated.
I remember that airlines bit. Very funny and very true. Overall my experience with Mac has been infinitely simpler & easier & more reliable than my years in Windows, although I confess I haven't taken much of a foray into Windows in more recent years. I've only interacted with a Linux machine once, and that was literal decades ago. 😁
I agree as well. Chances are it was something we did, and I'm just fed up with trying to figure out what specifically the problem is. Only thing I can attribute it to would be the SSD we installed as the boot drive, but the OEM one just isn't large enough at 256GB to accommodate what I need to install on it.
