EU Provisionally Agrees on Law That Would Force Apple to Allow Alternative App Stores, Sideloading, and iMessage Interoperability

[The Phazer]

Utter, utter nonsense. We have lost none of our consumer protections and much consumer law in the UK is based on principles that pre-date anything the EU has introduced in recent years. Please, please don't spout more anti-UK rhetoric based on "feeling" rather than fact.

UK citizens have factually lost -

• Their EU legal protection against paying roaming data charges while abroad in the EU.
• Their ability to access subscription audio visual services abroad for a period and get the same content selection as their native country.
• The Online Safety Bill currently on it's second reading through Parliament in the UK removes the EU prohibition on ISPs and other general internet providers to do general monitoring of their users, with significant reductions in privacy protections going in the bin as a result.

 

[The Phazer]

Do you think any Apple users were consulted about this? I like Apple kit precisely because it is locked in.

I'm an Apple user. I wrote to lawmakers and specifically asked for many of these things.

 

[Solomani]

Some of it I get, but I can't wrap my head around the problem with a device having default apps. Just have a page upon the first opening of the App Store saying "you have the defaults but here are some others".

If the problem is Safari getting an unfair advantage over Chrome then how to you get Chrome without a default App Store app?
Do you present a list of options upon the initial setup of Safari/Chrome/Firefox etc? But then that's an unfair advantage to those browsers when there are other ones out there.

I don't see the problem with default apps, so long as the user has the option to delete them. Safari is preloaded on iPhone? Don't like it? No problem. Delete Safari if you'd rather use the DuckDuckGoose browser instead LOL. And if you like the BadgerBadgerMushroomMushroom browser instead, go for it.

Apple's Maps is preloaded? No problem. One click and you delete it in favor of Google Maps.

 

[JM]

Rewrite the entire iOS code, or pull out of the EU? 🤔

LETS GO APPLEXIT!!

 

[LeeW]

I’m glad the uk left the EU

Oh, you think the UK doesn't still adopt many EU policies after Brexit? Cute.

 

[huge_apple_fangirl]

How in the world are you you supposed to make iMessage, WhatsApp, and everything else compatible when they all use different protocols? A lot of the stuff in this bill is stupid, but this makes no sense.

 

[Futurix]

Did you see what I quoted, or did you half read the post as you were disagreeing with every poster quoted. Zing was the sound of the post going over your head in an effort to discuss what the legislation means.

Yeah, I saw what you quoted - the service here is “sell a vehicle” so it won’t hinder Ford’s ability to use this data to try to sell you another gas guzzler.

Moreover, given that Ford isn’t a ‘gatekeeper’ under the terms of this legislation - this won’t even apply to them. So clearly things went over your head.

 

[Futurix]

How in the world are you you supposed to make iMessage, WhatsApp, and everything else compatible when they all use different protocols? A lot of the stuff in this bill is stupid, but this makes no sense.

Do you know what in the early 2000s most messaging systems were compatible? And you could even have an app that allowed to messages between multiple of those.

There’s nothing impossible here - just big businesses wanting a customer lock-in.

 

[Danfango]

I'm an Apple user. I wrote to lawmakers and specifically asked for many of these things.

I suspect they probably filed it in the shredder with the folks objecting too.

The reality is these decisions are not driven by citizens as a whole but by corporate controlled media and corporate lobbyists, even in the EU. The high profile lawsuits leave ideas and people with responsibilities when given ideas tend to execute them to extremes to justify their existence. An analogy is the policeman, who is constantly switched on looking for crimes. The regulator is constantly switched on looking for opportunities to regulate. When your entire mindshare is controlled by corporations it's corp versus corp with the regulator subject to assuming opinion and correctness is the loudest noise.

I did a spell working in analytics in this space. It's quite shocking how much manipulation is going on. On topic, Brexit was a fine example of this manipulation.

 

[JM]

I don't see the problem with default apps, so long as the user has the option to delete them. Safari is preloaded on iPhone? Don't like it? No problem. Delete Safari if you'd rather use the DuckDuckGoose browser instead LOL. And if you like the BadgerBadgerSnakeSnake browser instead, go for it.

Apple's Maps is preloaded? No problem. One click and you delete it in favor of Google Maps.

BadgerBadgerSnakeSnake browser? 😱

A snaaaake!! It’s a snaaaake. It’s a

Badger, badger, badger
Badger, badger, badger
Badger, badger, badger
Badger, badger, badger

Mushroom, mushroom

 

[Wildkraut]

I want to see god-tier Apple execs fume in rage. Not that they will do whatever they can to try to be "clever" for circumventing rules that are not their own, for a change. Apple has been arrogant and dismissive with everybody since forever. It's about time they get what they deserve. Although never underestimate their power of nuisance and acting in bad faith, exploiting every loophole they can.

I would even pay to sit by at the meeting to this, with Popcorn, Coke and have a good laugh.

 

[Agit21]

This is GOOD NEWS 😝

 

[Danfango]

Do you know what in the early 2000s most messaging systems were compatible? And you could even have an app that allowed to messages between multiple of those.

There’s nothing impossible here - just big businesses wanting a customer lock-in.

That's a bit of a disingenuous argument. That was a crude hack job and none of those messaging systems had end to end encryption. And it sucked. Terribly.

 

[TheOldChevy]

Seeing as how no one actually IN the European Union makes smartphones, Apple ought to tell the EU to get bent.

You remember that the European market is larger than the US market, right ?

 

[KanosWRX]

I think what they are saying is very reasonable. Allow people to install whatever they want, Allow people to remove whatever they want, allow interoperability.. That all sounds great to me!!! People worried about interoperability have never heard of an api before apparently. The fact is, this will allow people choice on the Apple platform finally. If you want to stay 100% in the apple ecosystem and buy into their whole security/privacy story, great do it. If you dont, great don't, do what you want, apple shouldn't get to decide that. At least you will have an option.

 

[The Phazer]

I suspect they probably filed it in the shredder with the folks objecting too.

Quite possibly, though I've also met in person with about seventy lawmakers to discuss it.

 

[JM]

Do you know what in the early 2000s most messaging systems were compatible? And you could even have an app that allowed to messages between multiple of those.

There’s nothing impossible here - just big businesses wanting a customer lock-in.

And there’s nothing wrong with businesses wanting lock-in to be more successful and make more money.

This is a good example of the fundamental disagreement of “rights” and governmental control. It’s fascinating and disheartening to see the direction the world is going in. ☹️ This whole mess of “pick a side” and “don’t mingle” with “those other people: they’re the worst.” (That applies to both “sides” 😉 don’t get all defensive on me.)

 

[wanha]

Very dubious definition of markets and competition, reads more like a punitive regulation drafted by spiteful bureaucrats without understanding how tech & security work.

I wonder how much regulation would be too much for Apple to swallow before saying “thx, but we will no longer be doing business in EU”?

The answer: no amount of regulation.

Just look at what Apple is putting up with in China.

In the end, the almighty dollar is what determines what Apple does. They'll complain, but they'll keep selling their devices as their shareholders want them to do.

 

[contacos]

Do you know what in the early 2000s most messaging systems were compatible? And you could even have an app that allowed to messages between multiple of those.

There’s nothing impossible here - just big businesses wanting a customer lock-in.

I miss that Mac app with the bird. What was it called? It allowed me to have iChat, AIM, MSN and ICQ in one program!

 

[Wildkraut]

How in the world are you you supposed to make iMessage, WhatsApp, and everything else compatible when they all use different protocols? A lot of the stuff in this bill is stupid, but this makes no sense.

E2E RCS

 

[wanha]

Seeing as how no one actually IN the European Union makes smartphones, Apple ought to tell the EU to get bent.

That's like not regulating cars in your country just because they are produced elsewhere.

 

[svish]

Apple will have to implement some major changes if this becomes law.

 

[Biro]

It's interesting that with all of these efforts to take down Big Tech on both sides of the Atlantic, we're still not seeing comprehensive privacy legislation to protect consumers - at least not here in the U.S. If government was really concerned about consumer rights, privacy legislation would come first. I'm not sure what the deal is with this in the EU.

 

[amartinez1660]

Pretty simple to comply on paper: on first boot allow users to pick full iOS or a custom, stripped-down Darwin kernel with no security provisions. Third parties can feel free to build their own window manager, file system, App Store, browsers, services for it. Philosophically something akin to AOSP - with great freedom comes great responsibility to build your own everything (to install apps users clone a git repo, modify the source themselves if they wish and make the binaries using gcc or clang on device for the ultimate In customizability)

I like this take a lot, since it’s the ultimate customization freedom “here, you can install any OS you want” (provided a hefty combination of actions and hardware switches potentially non reversible to lift iOS from it).

That way any AppStore can be made and installed on it, any messaging or browser default apps, any sort of sideloading, faceid/bluetooth/GPU/etc custom drivers… so on and so forth.

Heck, I think I would vote for it to go this way, would that pass legislations? If it is about freedom it can’t get better than that: “pick our closed ecosystem or have a it with all the freedom in the world to do as you see fit”.

 

[TheOldChevy]

I will continue using the App Store (the same way I use it on macOS). I trust it.

The worst thing that could happen is that all "on-device" apps disappear in favor of Cloud Apps, where the application on the phone/computer is just a GUI and all data storage and processing is done on a remote server in an unknown location. But that's a different story.