The EU is going to charge FaceBook/Meta and Microsoft too. The EU is simply broke and need $$$$.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
EU Reportedly Planning to Charge Apple for Violating Digital Markets Act
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
The Facebook one is absolutely ridiculous too. “The choice to be tracked or pay a nominal fee to go ad free isn’t fair because too many people are choosing to be tracked” - just ban targeted advertising if that’s your issue.
It is, it’s a right not to be tracked as a default.
So it’s illegal for a service to track you by default.
If you don’t like the fact we value privacy as a human right that should be respected then don’t do business with us.
You are completely free to sell your privacy in your country without any repercussions or consent. And you can keep it that way, while we don’t want that kind of behavior here.
The DMA analogy is akin to requiring Honda to allow installation out of the box of another engine under the guise of interoperability.
Terrible analogy. People will get hurt killed if electricity wasn’t regulated and there wasn’t a NEC. People won’t get hurt ir killed if they don’t get a reduction of commissions in the App Store.
This you can…. They aren’t allowed to prevent you from installing that.
Nowhere in my analogy do you need to mess with the electricity. Or do you need to mess with the electricity when you plug in any random appliances?
Android is 110v and iOS is 400v
They are forcing auto manufacturers to allow installations of each others engines.
Your analogy was electricity.
😂
No, they are forcing auto manufacturers to let the owners to do as they please with their cars. And keep their hands outside.
And my analogy wasn’t electricity, but the house you purchased.
Just like with electricity and apps in different OS, you need a converter that turns it into something that is compatible or it won’t work.
Just like the Rosetta Stone.
Again >
Current Situation:
1. Apple’s House:
• Exclusive House: Imagine the iPhone as a house built and managed by Apple. This house has its own set of appliances, furniture, and decor (apps) that are all carefully chosen and controlled by the homeowner (Apple).
• Exclusive Installations: If you live in this house (use an iPhone), you can only use the appliances, furniture, and decor provided by Apple’s approved vendors (App Store apps). You are not allowed to bring in or install items from outside vendors (third-party app stores).
Impact of the DMA:
1. New Regulation:
• Allowing Outside Vendors: The new regulation (DMA) requires that Apple’s house must allow homeowners to bring in and install appliances, furniture, and decor from other vendors. This means residents can now customize their house with a wider range of items without needing to move to a different house (switch devices).
But if you’re unable to understand it you could read the two other analogies such as the mall and hotel that I provided to you.
We can go around in circles about which analogies are good and bad. Regardless of the dma it’s my contention the App Store is being given away to all comers and that is bad. Witness epic a shady organization who baited apple, sued them lost on every point except one.
They lost in one country which is also known for having very business friendly laws. I don't think this is conclusive evidence that Epic's claim was not justified.
You say Epic is shady. But guess who has enabled that alleged shady behavior for years and profited handsomely ($$$) from that. Apple have issues with Epic as long as they were getting their 30% cut. So I don't think we have to pretend, that Apple is acting from a moral high ground here.
Pretty much conclusive evidence, imo.
Talk about spinning a tale. If you don't believe what Epic did is shady we have some vastly different opinions....which is obvious anyway as to the extent of the topic disagreement.
Considering with the analogy I have used, never is the AppStore given away at any point in time.
You can have misgivings for the law and what it does, but that’s not one of the things it does.
The app store is most certainly being made into a public utility. You can support your local government in giving them the thumbs up for what they did, but that's exactly what these regulations do. Any analogy forcing a manufacturer or vendor to do something with their IP that they would not have ordinarily done, is apt for these regulations.
And just like when you sell goods in your mall using your IP, when the user purchases that product they should be allowed to go to the neighboring store across the street. And the store in your mall should be allowed to sell to them outside the mall as well.
Your mall is left untouched and as private property.
Only if the IP is in the public domain, imo.
The stores can do what they want this is apples iOS App Store we are discussing.
Still the iOS App Store that is being made into a public utility.
But again we aren’t talking about the iOS AppStore in principle, But your phone.
side loading doesn’t make the AppStore a public utility, Just how you purchasing goods outside the Apple mall isn’t making the mall a public utility for anyone to sell their goods in.
No, but the EU is saying that the iPhone mall has to let freeloaders set up shop in the mall without paying rent, even though they’re using electricity and all the shoppers are coming to the mall Apple built.
You own the phone. You have a license to use the software.
Regulations specifically designed to allow any non iOS App Store app, alternative app stores from unscrupulous actors, does just that.
The mall is specifically set up for that.
Sigh, that’s exactly what it doesn’t
Let’s examine the mall analogy and clarify the misunderstanding in that counter-argument.
Counter-Analogy: Allowing Anyone to Sell Inside the Mall
Analogy: The DMA forces Apple to allow anyone to set up a shop inside their mall, which could lead to a drop in quality and safety standards.
Why It Doesn’t Hold Up:
1. Mall vs. Town: The DMA isn’t saying that Apple has to let anyone sell inside their mall. Instead, it’s saying that Apple should allow other malls (third-party app stores) to exist in the town (iOS ecosystem) and let people shop there if they choose. Apple’s mall (App Store) remains a curated, controlled environment with its own standards.
2. User Choice: The key point of the DMA is user choice. Users can still choose to shop in Apple’s mall if they prefer its curated selection and safety guarantees. However, they also have the freedom to explore other malls for different options, prices, and products that Apple’s mall might not offer.
3. Quality Control: Just as other malls in the town would have their own management and quality standards, third-party app stores can implement their own security and quality measures. They don’t necessarily have to be lax; in fact, competition might drive them to offer even better services.
Summary
The accurate analogy is that the DMA mandates Apple to allow other malls (third-party app stores) to operate in the town (iOS ecosystem). This promotes competition and choice without forcing Apple to dilute its standards within its own mall (App Store). Users still retain the freedom to choose where to shop, ensuring a balance between quality control and consumer freedom.
Read above.
Most comparisons they make fall flat on their face. They only know one thing, defending Apple.
Last edited:
Sigh. It’s probably the fifth time someone has used that retort on me. I disagree that iOS is the town, smartphones are. And there is a perfectly nice mall across the street that allows other stores. So just go shop at that one.
We could say the same to you. You’re the ones forcing your point of view on us pretending that there are zero downsides and that intellectual property rights don’t matter once you get “big enough” (which is apparently less than 30% market share).
You can pick any analogy you want, i have posted 3 different ones. The mall, the hotel and the house.
iOS isn’t the town. You should try and actually read the analogy.
And I used a retort for why your analogy didn’t make any sense and falls apart at every level.
But are you able to actually tackle the analogy? Or perhaps you need a better one?
The Hotel Analogy
Current Situation:
1. Apple’s Hotel:
• Exclusive Hotel: Imagine Apple runs a luxurious, exclusive hotel. This hotel has its own restaurants, shops, and entertainment options, all carefully curated and controlled by the hotel management (Apple).
• Exclusive Services: Guests (iPhone users) staying at this hotel can only access the facilities provided within the hotels curated catalog. They cannot bring in or use services (apps) from outside unless they leave the hotel (switch devices).
2.
Android’s Resort:
• Open Resort: In contrast, Google operates a large, open resort. While it has its own main hotel (Google Play Store), there are many smaller hotels and guesthouses (third-party app stores) within the resort, offering a wide variety of services and experiences.
• Flexible Access: Guests at this resort can freely move between different hotels and guesthouses, choosing services from any of them without restrictions.
Impact of the DMA:
1. New Regulation:
• Allowing New Vendors: The new regulation (DMA) requires Apple’s hotel to allow other vendors to provide services targeting the hotel guests. This means that guests can now access a wider range of services without needing to leave the hotel.
And that service providers can inform the customers with their own private number to get further services without going through the hotel(Apple).
• Open Resort: In contrast, Google operates a large, open resort. While it has its own main hotel (Google Play Store), there are many smaller hotels and guesthouses (third-party app stores) within the resort, offering a wide variety of services and experiences.
• Flexible Access: Guests at this resort can freely move between different hotels and guesthouses, choosing services from any of them without restrictions.
Impact of the DMA:
1. New Regulation:
• Allowing New Vendors: The new regulation (DMA) requires Apple’s hotel to allow other vendors to provide services targeting the hotel guests. This means that guests can now access a wider range of services without needing to leave the hotel.
And that service providers can inform the customers with their own private number to get further services without going through the hotel(Apple).
The Current Situation:
Imagine a large mall (Apple’s ecosystem) where all the shops (apps) are owned or approved by the mall owner (Apple). Developers are like small business owners who want to set up shop in the mall to sell their products (apps) to the mall’s many visitors (iPhone users).
Current Developer Experience:
1. High Rent and Strict Rules: To set up a shop in this mall, developers must pay high rent (App Store fees) and follow very strict rules about what they can and cannot sell and how they must operate (Apple’s app review guidelines and restrictions).
2. Limited Visibility: Even after setting up their shop, developers might find that their store is not easily visible to visitors unless they pay extra for advertising (App Store search ads) or get featured by the mall owner.
3. Revenue Cut: The mall owner takes a significant portion of the developers’ revenue (30% commission on app sales and in-app purchases), which can be a substantial burden, especially for small businesses.
4. Approval Delays: Developers often face delays and uncertainty during the approval process to get their shop set up or make changes to their existing shop (app updates). This can hinder their ability to respond quickly to market needs or fix issues.
With DMA Changes (Allowing Third-Party App Stores):
Now, imagine that the town (the regulatory authority, in this case, the EU) introduces a new law (DMA) that allows other malls (third-party app stores) to be built around the town, giving developers more options for setting up their shops.
Developer Experience with DMA:
1. More Malls to Choose From: Developers can choose to set up their shops in multiple malls (third-party app stores) that might offer better terms, lower rent, or more favorable conditions. This increases their opportunities to reach a broader audience.
2. Competitive Fees: With more malls competing for their business, developers can benefit from lower fees and more favorable revenue-sharing agreements, helping them retain more of their earnings.
3. Diverse Regulations: Different malls might have different rules and approval processes. Some might be more lenient or quicker in approving new shops or changes, allowing developers to innovate and respond to market demands more effectively.
4. Better Visibility: Alternative malls might offer better ways for developers to get noticed by visitors, such as more effective advertising options or algorithms that better match users with their preferences.
Benefits to Consumers and Developers:
1. Choice and Innovation: Consumers benefit from a wider variety of shops (apps) to choose from, potentially finding unique or niche products that might not be available in the original mall. Developers benefit from a more competitive environment that encourages innovation and diversity.
2. Increased Revenue: With lower fees and more favorable terms, developers can invest more in their businesses, improving their products and services, and potentially offering better prices or features to consumers.
3. Fairer Market: The new laws help create a fairer market where no single mall owner can dictate terms to all the small business owners, fostering a healthier economic environment for everyone involved.
1. High Rent and Strict Rules: To set up a shop in this mall, developers must pay high rent (App Store fees) and follow very strict rules about what they can and cannot sell and how they must operate (Apple’s app review guidelines and restrictions).
2. Limited Visibility: Even after setting up their shop, developers might find that their store is not easily visible to visitors unless they pay extra for advertising (App Store search ads) or get featured by the mall owner.
3. Revenue Cut: The mall owner takes a significant portion of the developers’ revenue (30% commission on app sales and in-app purchases), which can be a substantial burden, especially for small businesses.
4. Approval Delays: Developers often face delays and uncertainty during the approval process to get their shop set up or make changes to their existing shop (app updates). This can hinder their ability to respond quickly to market needs or fix issues.
With DMA Changes (Allowing Third-Party App Stores):
Now, imagine that the town (the regulatory authority, in this case, the EU) introduces a new law (DMA) that allows other malls (third-party app stores) to be built around the town, giving developers more options for setting up their shops.
Developer Experience with DMA:
1. More Malls to Choose From: Developers can choose to set up their shops in multiple malls (third-party app stores) that might offer better terms, lower rent, or more favorable conditions. This increases their opportunities to reach a broader audience.
2. Competitive Fees: With more malls competing for their business, developers can benefit from lower fees and more favorable revenue-sharing agreements, helping them retain more of their earnings.
3. Diverse Regulations: Different malls might have different rules and approval processes. Some might be more lenient or quicker in approving new shops or changes, allowing developers to innovate and respond to market demands more effectively.
4. Better Visibility: Alternative malls might offer better ways for developers to get noticed by visitors, such as more effective advertising options or algorithms that better match users with their preferences.
Benefits to Consumers and Developers:
1. Choice and Innovation: Consumers benefit from a wider variety of shops (apps) to choose from, potentially finding unique or niche products that might not be available in the original mall. Developers benefit from a more competitive environment that encourages innovation and diversity.
2. Increased Revenue: With lower fees and more favorable terms, developers can invest more in their businesses, improving their products and services, and potentially offering better prices or features to consumers.
3. Fairer Market: The new laws help create a fairer market where no single mall owner can dictate terms to all the small business owners, fostering a healthier economic environment for everyone involved.
Summary:
The DMA’s requirement for Apple to allow third-party app stores is akin to allowing new malls to be built around town. This change provides developers with more opportunities, better terms, and a fairer market, while consumers benefit from increased choice and innovation. The overall effect is a more dynamic and competitive ecosystem that supports both developers’ and consumers’ interests.
And without the need to move to a new town.
Again >
Current Situation:
1. Apple’s House:
• Exclusive House: Imagine the iPhone as a house built and managed by Apple. This house has its own set of appliances, furniture, and decor (apps) that are all carefully chosen and controlled by the homeowner (Apple).
• Exclusive Installations: If you live in this house (use an iPhone), you can only use the appliances, furniture, and decor provided by Apple’s approved vendors (App Store apps). You are not allowed to bring in or install items from outside vendors (third-party app s
• Exclusive House: Imagine the iPhone as a house built and managed by Apple. This house has its own set of appliances, furniture, and decor (apps) that are all carefully chosen and controlled by the homeowner (Apple).
• Exclusive Installations: If you live in this house (use an iPhone), you can only use the appliances, furniture, and decor provided by Apple’s approved vendors (App Store apps). You are not allowed to bring in or install items from outside vendors (third-party app s
Impact of the DMA:
1. New Regulation:
• Allowing Outside Vendors: The new regulation (DMA) requires that Apple’s house must allow homeowners to bring in and install appliances, furniture, and decor from other vendors. This means residents can now customize their house with a wider range of items without needing to move to a different house (switch devices).
Last edited:
Read my posts above. The mall is not proprietary digital intellectual property.