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I'd use Joplin. The 2.4 version series was janky, but the 3 version series is much better. When I was using Joplin, Joplin Sync in 3.x was much more performant than I remembered before. One just has to remember to wait for the sync to finish on one device before using another synced device.

If using the app before it completes sync will cause issue, I do not get why they do not put a progress bar loading until sync is over so you can start using the app. Its better that starting to edit things then corrupt the notes database.

I didn't even take this as a promotion of Bear.

My biggest gripes with Joplin are on mobile, where it hardly improved at all (in things that matter to me, at least).

  • No Spotlight. It's not such a big issue on desktop, but running a separate search on the phone takes longer - and typically you need it more urgently.
  • Still can't use rich text editor on Mobile. In practical terms, it means that if I want to add notes to an inserted image, which I often do, I don't see the image while adding these notes. And use of tables is ... well, not for me.
  • Still can't add attachments from Files or Safari or any other app by sharing to Joplin. Have to switch to Joplin and add from there. A major workflow limitation for my use.
  • No OCR. They did add workable OCR on desktop app, but you have to sync the note to desktop and open the desktop app for some time before OCR is available on mobile.

I totally agree with you regarding all these salient dissatisfactions with Joplin Mobile. Joplin's developer is really desktop focused; I don't think that mobile is [EDIT: harder for his team to code and get the details right]. Same for Obsidian, as well. If I can't find search by looking, Obsidian's dead to me, as I need ease of use on mobile more often than desktop.

Understandable dissatisfactions, but for the price of free and FOSS, I can't complain on my side...

One thing I learned from searching for apps, there is no one app that rules them all, you have to make a choice and go with it.
 
Another vote for Joplin, but I almost never use any notes app on my phone. If mobile is important, I'd look elsewhere but there are 3 features I like - web clipper, sync with any of the major cloud storage services and notes are encrypted.
 
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Another vote for Joplin, but I almost never use any notes app on my phone. If mobile is important, I'd look elsewhere but there are 3 features I like - web clipper, sync with any of the major cloud storage services and notes are encrypted.
Notes are not encrypted on your local storage. Not unless your hard drive is encrypted, or you put the Joplin profile inside an encrypted volume. It's just an unencrypted SQLITE database.

The notes are only encrypted on the sync target and on the mobile device.

It used to be even worse - they used to store the encryption password as plain text in that database. Joplin developer's approach to security is rather narrow minded.
 
Notes are not encrypted on your local storage. Not unless your hard drive is encrypted, or you put the Joplin profile inside an encrypted volume. It's just an unencrypted SQLITE database.

The notes are only encrypted on the sync target and on the mobile device.

It used to be even worse - they used to store the encryption password as plain text in that database. Joplin developer's approach to security is rather narrow minded.

why would I want it encrypted on my device?
unless you mean some one stole my device and will look through it which is a bigger problem
 
Another vote for Joplin, but I almost never use any notes app on my phone. If mobile is important, I'd look elsewhere but there are 3 features I like - web clipper, sync with any of the major cloud storage services and notes are encrypted.
I was a long-time user and fan of Joplin. But...
  • There were bugs (mostly on the mobile side) that have gone unresolved for years and still unresolved.
  • Syncing was also problematic at times. (DropBox and OneDrive)
  • The native linking functionality is very cumbersome. The Note Link System plug-in brought link functionality on par with Obsidian, but the exporting notes out of Joplin results in broken/unusable links.
I still keep an eye on Joplin to see how it is progressing in the hopes that these items are addressed.
 
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I checked up, and I had an aged copy of Evernote, that I can use on 1 device without subscription.
The priority fell on my MacStudio.

But I get along just great with using:
DayOne, subscription, with plenty of different Journal's sorted to different areas of my use.

Things, probably my most used app together with Safari. No subscription.
I use it to: to-do's, all various lists I can think of, sorted into categories.

Apple Notes: for mostly storage of notes - not any daily use at all.
 
I checked up, and I had an aged copy of Evernote, that I can use on 1 device without subscription.
The priority fell on my MacStudio.

But I get along just great with using:
DayOne, subscription, with plenty of different Journal's sorted to different areas of my use.

Things, probably my most used app together with Safari. No subscription.
I use it to: to-do's, all various lists I can think of, sorted into categories.

Apple Notes: for mostly storage of notes - not any daily use at all.
Interesting. To me all advantages of Apple Notes are in daily use - they are fast to use, easy to find information in on fly. But they are not ideal for long term storage because they lock me into a paid iCloud account and migrating info out is difficult.
 
But they are not ideal for long term storage because they lock me into a paid iCloud account and migrating info out is difficult.
I doubt that I will ever leave the Apple ecosystem so unlikely I will have to export my data but this kind of behaviour is deliberate and it pains me. I should be able to leave as easy as it was to join.

Let's hope the EU regulator notices and takes steps to compel Apple to fix this. The regulators here are oblivious.
 
Interesting. To me all advantages of Apple Notes are in daily use - they are fast to use, easy to find information in on fly. But they are not ideal for long term storage because they lock me into a paid iCloud account and migrating info out is difficult.
Different users and different taste 😉

iCloud is one of the best service Apple offer imo, that syncs seamless between devices. I store a lot of stuff there that I want accessible to my devices, and at a cheap price. Sensitive info is never good to store online without encryption. I use 1Password for that.
 
Different users and different taste 😉

iCloud is one of the best service Apple offer imo, that syncs seamless between devices. I store a lot of stuff there that I want accessible to my devices, and at a cheap price. Sensitive info is never good to store online without encryption. I use 1Password for that.
I use OneDrive. I can get 1TB of storage (shared between family members) and MS Office on all devices for $50 per year. The regular price is a little more but if you’re in the US and your work or school is subscribed to MS services, you get a discount so a large number of people qualify.

OneDrive has several advantages over iCloud. It’s obviously cheaper. It has file version history for all file types. It is available on all OS’s including Linux (via 3rd party utilities) and Android. You have precise control over what files you keep locally on any device. And also getting Office on all devices is a cherry on top.

iCloud is ok if you’re only using Apple (although no version history is a problem, as well as the way it treats file links). But it sucks in a cross platform environment.
 
Interesting. To me all advantages of Apple Notes are in daily use - they are fast to use, easy to find information in on fly. But they are not ideal for long term storage because they lock me into a paid iCloud account and migrating info out is difficult.

For me there are many notes that just need writing or sketching to think at that moment rather than storage. The draft can become an article or document someday so I will need to copy and paste to other apps like Pages or Words and achieve them as PDF in file systems. Or export as plain text as backup.

If I want to write an article at first I will go to editors or other apps first. May copy and paste to Notes app if I think I need to revisit them someday.

But sadly under the trend of Notion, we want everything every use in one app only.
 
I use OneDrive. I can get 1TB of storage (shared between family members) and MS Office on all devices for $50 per year. The regular price is a little more but if you’re in the US and your work or school is subscribed to MS services, you get a discount so a large number of people qualify.

OneDrive has several advantages over iCloud. It’s obviously cheaper. It has file version history for all file types. It is available on all OS’s including Linux (via 3rd party utilities) and Android. You have precise control over what files you keep locally on any device. And also getting Office on all devices is a cherry on top.

iCloud is ok if you’re only using Apple (although no version history is a problem, as well as the way it treats file links). But it sucks in a cross platform environment.
OneDrive also isn’t end-to-end encrypted, and they scan your files for CSAM. As long as you are okay with that, it is definitely a good deal.
 
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I totally agree with you regarding all these salient dissatisfactions with Joplin Mobile. Joplin's developer is really desktop focused; I don't think that mobile is [EDIT: harder for his team to code and get the details right]. Same for Obsidian, as well. If I can't find search by looking, Obsidian's dead to me, as I need ease of use on mobile more often than desktop.
One other thing which equally applies to desktop is that while Markdown *in theory* should be a universal format, it really isn’t. It’s a niche format.

If I have a note in Word or PDF or HTML or Open Office with images, tables and links, I can preview it in Windows File Explorer or Mac Finder, and will see the content without having to open the actual note. Great for browsing and quick lookup. But this won’t work with markdown - all I see is the plaintext with code instead of images or tables.

There is a free MD viewer for Windows Explorer, but it treats MD files as web pages. So to see the images, I’d need to lower my security settings.

There’s also no easy way to work with markdown. Most free software that I tried is a two-pane editor and it’s just not conducive to productivity, especially if I have other windows opened that I work with.

And export… that’s a whole new can of worms. Exporting my Joplin database as markdown, all file links were broken. I was unable to import them into Onenote using Onemore markdown import function. And they didn’t work in Notepad++ markdown plugin.

Exporting as a web page worked (at least I was able to open the linked files) but all file names in the Resources directory were replaced with garbage ID strings, so essentially all my attachments were useless without that web page.

So exporting data out of Joplin in most common formats is not really straightforward or usable out of the box.

It’s just too clunky…
 
OneDrive also isn’t end-to-end encrypted, and they scan your files for CSAM. As long as you are okay with that, it is definitely a good deal.
All of my proprietary data is encrypted locally before being transferred to OneDrive. I use Cryptomator but there are other tools.

Also, MS is already scanning all data on any Windows device with their antivirus. And Linux is full of code accumulated over 30 years coming from thousands of anonymous sources. At some point, you just have to decide who you trust with your data and to which extend. Otherwise, it doesn't belong on any device which is connected to the internet.
 
All of my proprietary data is encrypted locally before being transferred to OneDrive. I use Cryptomator but there are other tools.

Also, MS is already scanning all data on any Windows device with their antivirus. And Linux is full of code accumulated over 30 years coming from thousands of anonymous sources. At some point, you just have to decide who you trust with your data and to which extend. Otherwise, it doesn't belong on any device which is connected to the internet.
Then it seems you are okay with that. My iCloud Drive is end-to-end encrypted, and due to what happened in the past, we know they don’t scan for CSAM. So I go with that.

The problem with cryptomator is making it work properly with third party apps as well as iOS and iPadOS. (Although, to be fair, when I had cryptomator problems, it was with Dropbox. You can’t use it and expect it to work with iPadOS Scrivener as a for instance. It has to be unencrypted.)
 
One other thing which equally applies to desktop is that while Markdown *in theory* should be a universal format, it really isn’t. It’s a niche format.

If I have a note in Word or PDF or HTML or Open Office with images, tables and links, I can preview it in Windows File Explorer or Mac Finder, and will see the content without having to open the actual note. Great for browsing and quick lookup. But this won’t work with markdown - all I see is the plaintext with code instead of images or tables.

There is a free MD viewer for Windows Explorer, but it treats MD files as web pages. So to see the images, I’d need to lower my security settings.

There’s also no easy way to work with markdown. Most free software that I tried is a two-pane editor and it’s just not conducive to productivity, especially if I have other windows opened that I work with.

And export… that’s a whole new can of worms. Exporting my Joplin database as markdown, all file links were broken. I was unable to import them into Onenote using Onemore markdown import function. And they didn’t work in Notepad++ markdown plugin.

Exporting as a web page worked (at least I was able to open the linked files) but all file names in the Resources directory were replaced with garbage ID strings, so essentially all my attachments were useless without that web page.

So exporting data out of Joplin in most common formats is not really straightforward or usable out of the box.

It’s just too clunky…
This is a great point about Markdown. There is so many different permutations of it that it sounds great in theory, but it is still kind of high maintenance. I use Obsidian these days for my notes for this reason, but it isn’t perfect.
 
Then it seems you are okay with that. My iCloud Drive is end-to-end encrypted, and due to what happened in the past, we know they don’t scan for CSAM. So I go with that.

The problem with cryptomator is making it work properly with third party apps as well as iOS and iPadOS. (Although, to be fair, when I had cryptomator problems, it was with Dropbox. You can’t use it and expect it to work with iPadOS Scrivener as a for instance. It has to be unencrypted.)
I’ve used Cryptomator since my Android days, around the time it came out. It’s been incredibly stable and reliable on multiple Android, iOS, Windows, Linux and Mac devices, for years. But I always used it with OneDrive.

It’s not searchable / indexed, but because I store very specific kinds of information in it, it’s very easy to structure and organize it to the point where I can find what I am looking for easily.
 
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So I assume you don’t have kids, other family members whom you may hand your device ? The world is not a binary place where everyone needs either 100% access or 100% block.

You are absolutely correct. If for whatever reason I give my device to someone else it will have a guest account, or in iphone case you can lock the app with touch/face ID. My password manager will always require authentication.

One other thing which equally applies to desktop is that while Markdown *in theory* should be a universal format, it really isn’t. It’s a niche format.

If I have a note in Word or PDF or HTML or Open Office with images, tables and links, I can preview it in Windows File Explorer or Mac Finder, and will see the content without having to open the actual note. Great for browsing and quick lookup. But this won’t work with markdown - all I see is the plaintext with code instead of images or tables.

There is a free MD viewer for Windows Explorer, but it treats MD files as web pages. So to see the images, I’d need to lower my security settings.

There’s also no easy way to work with markdown. Most free software that I tried is a two-pane editor and it’s just not conducive to productivity, especially if I have other windows opened that I work with.

And export… that’s a whole new can of worms. Exporting my Joplin database as markdown, all file links were broken. I was unable to import them into Onenote using Onemore markdown import function. And they didn’t work in Notepad++ markdown plugin.

Exporting as a web page worked (at least I was able to open the linked files) but all file names in the Resources directory were replaced with garbage ID strings, so essentially all my attachments were useless without that web page.

So exporting data out of Joplin in most common formats is not really straightforward or usable out of the box.

It’s just too clunky…

Is there any app that you can link to notes and keep the structure that use a standard format to export to other apps?

I’ve used Cryptomator since my Android days, around the time it came out. It’s been incredibly stable and reliable on multiple Android, iOS, Windows, Linux and Mac devices, for years. But I always used it with OneDrive.

It’s not searchable / indexed, but because I store very specific kinds of information in it, it’s very easy to structure and organize it to the point where I can find what I am looking for easily.

I am interested in this.

1) So you have a Cryptomator folder locally and you just use it as you wish and it just does its own thing in the background?

2) Are the files stored locally then encrypted and sent to the cloud as backup or are the files actually in the cloud and you have to wait for Cryptomator to encrypt and decrypt each time you need access?

3) Are there any sync problem issues? maybe I re-edit a file before it got to be encrypted and sent to the cloud causing some sort of error?

4) Does it stress the CPU in any way?
 
You are absolutely correct. If for whatever reason I give my device to someone else it will have a guest account, or in iphone case you can lock the app with touch/face ID. My password manager will always require authentication.
So if I have a note I want to let someone read on my phone, I have to give them access to the entire database? By the way FaceID lock is a relatively recent thing.

It’s obvious that we have very different understanding of that whole individual note security thing.
Is there any app that you can link to notes and keep the structure that use a standard format to export to other apps?
Not sure I understand the question. Are you talking about Apple Notes or Joplin ?

I am interested in this.

1) So you have a Cryptomator folder locally and you just use it as you wish and it just does its own thing in the background?

2) Are the files stored locally then encrypted and sent to the cloud as backup or are the files actually in the cloud and you have to wait for Cryptomator to encrypt and decrypt each time you need access?

3) Are there any sync problem issues? maybe I re-edit a file before it got to be encrypted and sent to the cloud causing some sort of error?

4) Does it stress the CPU in any way?
Cryptomator is essentially an encrypted vault - you mount it to access files.

The big difference between Cryptomator and some other similar software (e.g. VeraCrypt) is that it was designed from the ground up to be used with mobile devices. E.g. instead of keeping everything in one huge file, it breaks up the data into small encrypted chunks. This way it will only sync what changed, not relying on the cloud provider to have incremental synchronization feature.

On the desktop, you mount it as a localhost and it’s accessible as long as you keep it mounted.

On iOS, it’s accessible as a location in Files. You need to unlock it when you access it.

All files are encrypted locally and synced to the cloud. Encryption happens automatically the moment you save the file. It’s transparent and you can re-edit and re-save the file all you want.

All the cloud provider sees is the encrypted files. I keep my Cryptomator vault in OneDrive but it will work with other cloud services.

Because it’s basically a bunch of files in a OneDrive folder, you always have them both locally and in the cloud on your laptop. On mobile, you can also have them always kept locally if you want (obviously at the expense of available space). It’s controlled via your cloud provider’s Offline files settings.

I have never had any sync or data loss issues. No excessive CPU or memory usage. As a matter of fact Cryptomator has been one of the most stable and reliable apps I’ve used on all platforms. And I’ve been using it for over a decade, since it was in beta. On Android, iOS, Windows, Linux and MacOS. Often on all these platforms at the same time, syncing between multiple devices.
 
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The big difference between Cryptomator and some other similar software (e.g. VeraCrypt) is that it was designed from the ground up to be used with mobile devices. E.g. instead of keeping everything in one huge file, it breaks up the data into small encrypted chunks. This way it will only sync what changed, not relying on the cloud provider to have incremental synchronization feature.

---------
Well said. I use Cryptomator on multiple devices with different operating systems. I would not use cloud storage for most of my files without it.
 
Not sure I understand the question. Are you talking about Apple Notes or Joplin ?

I am talking about any app if it has the capability to maintain the linked file/notes structure "as is" when exported to another app.

Cryptomator is essentially an encrypted vault - you mount it to access files.

The big difference between Cryptomator and some other similar software (e.g. VeraCrypt) is that it was designed from the ground up to be used with mobile devices. E.g. instead of keeping everything in one huge file, it breaks up the data into small encrypted chunks. This way it will only sync what changed, not relying on the cloud provider to have incremental synchronization feature.

On the desktop, you mount it as a localhost and it’s accessible as long as you keep it mounted.

On iOS, it’s accessible as a location in Files. You need to unlock it when you access it.

All files are encrypted locally and synced to the cloud. Encryption happens automatically the moment you save the file. It’s transparent and you can re-edit and re-save the file all you want.

All the cloud provider sees is the encrypted files. I keep my Cryptomator vault in OneDrive but it will work with other cloud services.

Because it’s basically a bunch of files in a OneDrive folder, you always have them both locally and in the cloud on your laptop. On mobile, you can also have them always kept locally if you want (obviously at the expense of available space). It’s controlled via your cloud provider’s Offline files settings.

thanks. I shall test it out. Have you tried sending over 4GB files? I heard something about a WebDAV limit that it can't send larger files which is something causes me annoyance with USB's formated with FAT32.

Do you have to unlock it each time you restart the computer or can it stay unlocked just like any folder on the computer?
 
I am talking about any app if it has the capability to maintain the linked file/notes structure "as is" when exported to another app.
Nothing I can think of. Perhaps Obsidian but I really couldn’t like it.

thanks. I shall test it out. Have you tried sending over 4GB files? I heard something about a WebDAV limit that it can't send larger files which is something causes me annoyance with USB's formated with FAT32.
I don’t have any single files of that size that I want encrypted. My overall vault size is about 8gb, but the largest files are probably about 30-40 mb. You may want to check with other users on Cryptomator forum.
Do you have to unlock it each time you restart the computer or can it stay unlocked just like any folder on the computer?
On computer you unlock it once and keep it open until you restart the system or it times out per your settings. I don’t think automatically mounting a protected vault on restart is good security practice, so I don’t even know if that’s possible.

On iOS, you can use FaceID and set it to stay unlocked indefinitely although I, again, don’t think it’s a good idea.
 
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