200-plus will solve the problem for most people. Fluorescent lights run at 60 Hz and most people have no problem with that, although that not an apples:apples comparison.
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Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up
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200-plus will solve the problem for most people. Fluorescent lights run at 60 Hz and most people have no problem with that, although that not an apples:apples comparison.
The iPhone is already at 240 Hz frequency for PWM.
Please see: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Why-Pulse-Width-Modulation-PWM-is-such-a-headache.270240.0.html
I would also argue that people do have issues with fluorescent light bulbs... and you don't stare at a fluorescent light bulb and try to focus on small details of the bulb.
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https://www.macrumors.com/2019/07/19/lg-2019-boe-2020-iphone-oled-displays-barclays/
I wonder if this is going to come into play.
If LG (and/or BOE) are also being used to supply OLED panels, will some iPhone 11 Pro models have worse PWM than others? This is going to be interesting...
I wonder if this is going to come into play.
If LG (and/or BOE) are also being used to supply OLED panels, will some iPhone 11 Pro models have worse PWM than others? This is going to be interesting...
I went ahead and ordered the Pro. It’s smaller than I’d like but I want a crack at having all 3 lenses after all. If it gives me a headache I’ll send it back and get the regular 11 like I did last year. I am really curious now if I’ll be able to use it. Because I can use the Note 10+ without a problem. And the new iPhones are supposed to be using the same displays unaltered. If I end up with a migraine we will know they’re definitely messing with them somehow.
I ordered an 11, but in a perfect world would love an 11 Pro, but I suffered from PWM immensely the 2 days I had my XS.
Hoping against hope that a new year and screen may have fixed the issue, but I doubt it.
Will be checking back to this thread anxiously awaiting peoples feedback on the 11 Pro screens specific to whether or not PWM and headaches/blurred vision are still an issue!
Interesting article. On Apple’s site overview of the new Pro iPhones they indicate that they have new display drivers. I hope the results help those of us who haven’t been able to use the phones so far.
It’s been buried in this thread or a related one, but I came across a very brief mention that Apple had some sort of efficiency boosting patented process of cycling the flicker in each sub pixel in the pentile arrangement. I wonder if this special process contributed to the strange effect I had of not being able to focus on text. It was like my eye just couldn’t settle on any image comprising any letter of text.
That difficulty would come into play even beyond noticing usual display flicker.
PWM apparently can be found in LCD displays as well. That would explain why my LCD desktop monitor makes my eyes water but doesn’t bother my family. However, I don’t get migraines from it. Just watery eye strain.
There are honestly times I think I’m seeing a slight flicker on my Xr display. I don’t know if that’s from some sort of other kind of eye strain. I have not heard about pwm being applied in an observable way in Apple’s LCDs. I did have terrible eye strain years ago with an earlier full size iPad model. I had to switch to the original retina Mini.
My OLED on my Pixel 3XL is actually the most comfortable display for reading that I own. All OLED displays that I own are made by Samsung. So it’s not an issue caused by the manufacturer, but some combination of the state of tech Samsung is able to offer and how its customers apply other specs and components...if I understand everything I’m putting together correctly.
I am pretty sure I have fooled around with both of the different adjustment areas regarding the font/print size. The increase I found. Was just not that much of an increase to make it any better.
You claim that the size increase is considerable. Right? Well maybe there is something that I am missing here. However, what you are describing does sound somewhat familiar. However, I don’t really recall. It has been a while since I have toggled the switches in that/those areas.
Exactly where are you talking about?
I wish at least one of those people who attend the Apple events would attempt to perform the poor man's PWM identification method test (recording slo-mo video of the new iPhone display) to see if it still exists on the new phones.
I suppose the results would be not too reliable because of the overhead lights, but still, it is crazy that this has not been publicized more.
I suppose the results would be not too reliable because of the overhead lights, but still, it is crazy that this has not been publicized more.
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They wont do it, if they pointed on pwm flicker problem, that might be their last apple event
If you go to Settings - General - Accessibility - Larger Text you can increase font to the size of my screenshot above. However, it does not apply to everything. That’s the downfall. It’s selective in the content affected.
Which of you all who have preordered OLED iPhones will commit to test for PWM and report back here as soon as possible? ☺️
Last year I experienced headaches and eye strain while using the XS Max and subsequently returned it in favor of my 8 Plus. Was it PWM? Stress? I am not sure. But I will happily report my experience with the Max Pro as soon as I feel I have a clear-cut answer.
Great! Thanks.
I just didn’t toggle the switch previously. I only had adjusted the slide bar on the bottom of the screen. Now it works perfectly.
sorry I haven't kept up with this thread but are we thinking the new 11 pro and pro max will have PWM too?
we'll know soon enough but
we'll know soon enough but
My reluctant assumption is yes, they will. There is talk that the new phones use the same tech as the new Note series but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s other than the panels. The tech that drives pwm as I understand could remain unchanged.
"It’s the same PWM as ever."
Unless they changed something else with the implementation that we can't see, looks like the 11 Pros aren't gonna work for us either.
Unless they changed something else with the implementation that we can't see, looks like the 11 Pros aren't gonna work for us either.
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It's really easy (for me) to actually see the PWM strobing of the display on Apple's OLED panels with just my bare eyeballs. Don't need any special recording device. I noticed it instantly when a friend was using his XS Max at night.
Try this:
In a dark room open up a blank Notes app page so the display shows just white.
Place the phone about 10 feet away or so (doesn't have to be exact) so you can see the display in the dark.
While you're at a distance from the phone look above it a foot or so so you're not looking directly at the screen but it's clearly in your peripheral vision.
Then quickly move your eyes side to side as if scanning the dark room but don't look directly at the screen — but notice it in your peripheral vision.
As your eyes quickly move past the screen, you can clearly see the screen strobing on and off just like a strobe light. Your eyes have to be moving quickly though to see it because they need to be in a new position at each strobe flash for your retina to detect it.
If you do the same test above with one of Apple's LCD screens- there's no flickering and no strobing.
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What's happening while viewing stuff normally on an apple OLED screen is your eyes are constantly moving side to side quickly and all around as you're reading text, looking a pics or whatever, and that fast movement of the eye allows detection of the strobe effect — messing up the nervous system after some time.
Try this:
In a dark room open up a blank Notes app page so the display shows just white.
Place the phone about 10 feet away or so (doesn't have to be exact) so you can see the display in the dark.
While you're at a distance from the phone look above it a foot or so so you're not looking directly at the screen but it's clearly in your peripheral vision.
Then quickly move your eyes side to side as if scanning the dark room but don't look directly at the screen — but notice it in your peripheral vision.
As your eyes quickly move past the screen, you can clearly see the screen strobing on and off just like a strobe light. Your eyes have to be moving quickly though to see it because they need to be in a new position at each strobe flash for your retina to detect it.
If you do the same test above with one of Apple's LCD screens- there's no flickering and no strobing.
-----
What's happening while viewing stuff normally on an apple OLED screen is your eyes are constantly moving side to side quickly and all around as you're reading text, looking a pics or whatever, and that fast movement of the eye allows detection of the strobe effect — messing up the nervous system after some time.
I could be completely wrong here, but I really am curious if PWM is harmful to everyone, not just those of us who can detect it. It just doesn’t seem good for the eyes to be exposed to that repetitive flickering for prolonged amounts of time.
Such a bummer. Better grab your iPhone 11 (non-Pro) while you can. 2020 and beyond, it’s PWM or bust. If that is the case, I will seriously think about getting rid of my iPhone dependence altogether and switch to a Light Phone 2.
Apple *is* aware of the PWM issue on some level, I’d be really surprised if they don’t offer some kind of solution by the time their entire lineup is OLED. Whether it be a higher Hz rate, DC Dimming, or something we don’t even know about, there’s just gotta be some way to make this work.
If not, maybe we should all start a petition or something lol.
Oh darn.
I was generally unaware of the PWM issue, but I have previously had serious eye strain issues with some LCDs and not others. I never really knew why but I've cross checked the "ok" models that I'm currently using and they are confirmed to PWM free. Good chance that's it.
I guess my 11 Pro is going back when it gets here.
I was generally unaware of the PWM issue, but I have previously had serious eye strain issues with some LCDs and not others. I never really knew why but I've cross checked the "ok" models that I'm currently using and they are confirmed to PWM free. Good chance that's it.
I guess my 11 Pro is going back when it gets here.
I’m a former Candlepowerforums flashlight nerd and yes this the same method I use to spot PWM on flashlights.... works very well.
On the downside, it was sort of a mistake learning what PWM is, and how to easy see it.... because once you do know what it is and how to easily see it - you can not stop seeing it.
I used to use PWM lighting, and it never really bothered me... but now.....
Let’s just say, sometimes ignorance is bliss.
PS... I bought the XR for the battery life, happy to say I do not notice any PWM on it.