Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[TDDM]

Has anyone else had any luck with the eyepatch to see if it mitigates the symptoms at all?

I’ve been using it daily for about a month now, definitely noticing relief from the flicker symtoms.

 

[now i see it]

An eye patch would make a winning iPhone advertising campaign. Maybe Apple can start selling them in different colors.

 

[MICHAELSD]

So 13 pro was more difficult to your eyes compared to mini ? Did you try 12 pro ?

So far, yes that’s accurate. This is my most comfortable experience with an iPhone OLED.

I tried iPhone 12 Pro Max and it was at least twice as problematic as far as PWM symptoms compared to the iPhone 13 lineup. iPhone 13 Pro Max has the lowest 238Hz rate so it is likely the same as iPhone 12 Pro Max, which I can attest to having watched a trailer for Free Guy on one.

 

[TDDM]

An eye patch would make a winning iPhone advertising campaign. Maybe Apple can start selling them in different colors.

Not really, it’s mostly just helpful for people with binocular vision issues & potentially finding a solution to this issue.

Is there a reason you keep mocking it?

 

[MICHAELSD]

Per Notebookcheck, PWM rates are as follows:

iPhone 13 Mini - 510Hz
iPhone 13 - 610Hz
iPhone 13 Pro - 510Hz
iPhone 13 Pro Max - 238Hz

All iPhone 13 models enter a 60Hz mode not unlike DC dimming at under 15% brightness, presumably including iPhone 13 Pro Max.

My experience with iPhone 13 Mini has been more encouraging, especially with the 60Hz mode indoors. My guess is that it may fall apart once I start using it out in the real-world, but the 60Hz mode has been surprisingly effective.

So wouldn’t the highest frequency of 610Hz make iPhone 13 the best choice if accurate? It also has a display with better color accuracy than iPhone 13 Pro oddly, and ProRes motion doesn’t make a difference to me — I don’t miss it on iPhone 13 Mini.

 

[Taz Mangus]

Probably a mistake: I ordered an iPhone 13 Mini.

All signs are pointing to iPhone 13 Pro being the best for PWM-sensitive users; however, that didn’t work for me. I have a better feeling about iPhone 13 Mini and the form factor is probably being discontinued next year so I’m curious to try it. Unlikely it’ll work out if I’m being honest but I don’t mind providing more experiences like others in this thread.

The PWM for the 13 Mini is 510.2 Hz, 13 is 609.8 Hz, 13 Pro is 510.2 Hz and 13 Pro Max is 238 Hz. Odd that the 13 Pro Max has such a different PWM then the others. Probably due to the size of the screen, the 120Hz and just squeezing as much battery as possible by using a lower backlight frequency.

 

[now i see it]

Is there a reason you keep mocking it?

I’ll put it in the context of food.
For those who can’t tolerate OLED iPhones, it’s like a patron at a restaurant being served a really skanky fish dinner. The smell of it and especially the taste of it makes their stomach turn and they get nauseous. It looks delicious sitting there all pretty on the plate next to some rice and a wedge of lemon, but other than that, it’s utterly disgusting.

So instead of ordering something different on the menu (that’s not fish) this person is on a mission to eat that gross fish no matter what. So they get out the Tabasco sauce and ketchup and order extra tartar sauce, then carefully cut off a very small piece of the fish and dip it in all those condiments, then take a big mouthful of rice, chew that up, then when it’s time to swallow the rice, they quickly drop that tiny piece of fish covered in all those sauces in their mouth - don’t chew it, and swallow the thing whole, along with the rice - then drink three big swallows of beer afterwards….

And then claim that the fish really isn’t so bad.

While I’m sure covering an eye can be helpful for some people when viewing nauseating OLED iPhones, no smartphone use should require dipping it in Tabasco, then tartar sauce, then quickly swallowing it whole - then washing it down with beer - to make it tolerable.

My advice would be - order something different on the menu.

So that is why I was poking fun at the eye patch. I’m glad you found a workaround, but it seems pretty extreme since there’s other perfectly good iPhones models currently available that are usable.

 

[TDDM]

So that is why I was poking fun at the eye patch. I’m glad you found a workaround, but it seems pretty extreme since there’s other perfectly good iPhones models currently available that are usable.

I explicitly said that the patch isn‘t necessarily a good long term solution for everyone due to issues caused by overuse of occlusion therapy. The entire point of the patch is that if you do experience some relief, that could potentially point to some kind of binocular vision issue, which *can* hopefully be treated on a long term basis. It won’t help everyone, obviously, but I assumed people would be happy to hear that there’s another promising health option to explore.

Not to mention that there are people like me who have these same flicker issues with Macs, iPads, all newer iPhones. The patch is extremely helpful for anyone in that position, regardless of what it leads to with BVD.

 

[MICHAELSD]

The PWM for the 13 Mini is 510.2 MHz, 13 is 609.8 MHz, 13 Pro is 510.2 MHz and 13 Pro Max is 238 MHz. Odd that the 13 Pro Max has such a different PWM then the others. Probably due to the size of the screen, the 120Hz and just squeezing as much battery as possible by using a lower backlight frequency.

I rounded them up/down for simplicity. It seems like on the Max models they prioritize color accuracy to design the best quality display overall so they weren’t able to adjust the PWM rate on that and maintain the same quality for whatever reason.

It does seem like they put the best PWM implementation on iPhone 13, likely because it will be used by the largest number of people.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I explicitly said that the patch isn‘t necessarily a good long term solution for everyone due to issues caused by overuse of occlusion therapy. The entire point of the patch is that if you do experience some relief, that could potentially point to some kind of binocular vision issue, which *can* hopefully be treated on a long term basis. It won’t help everyone, obviously, but I assumed people would be happy to hear that there’s another promising health option to explore.

Not to mention that there are people like me who have these same flicker issues with Macs, iPads, all newer iPhones. The patch is extremely helpful for anyone in that position, regardless of what it leads to with BVD.

It’s an idea, but it’s probably not worth going to these extremes.

Even if iPhone 13 Mini isn’t perfect, it’s my best experience with an OLED iPhone to date.

 

[TDDM]

It’s an idea, but it’s probably not worth going to these extremes.

Even if iPhone 13 Mini isn’t perfect, it’s my best experience with an OLED iPhone to date.

We’ve spent more than four years in this thread talking this issue to death with no real solutions to speak of aside from hoping the new iPhones are better each year. Trying a patch for a few days is nowhere near extreme, lol.

It may be nothing, or it may be a potential lead. That’s why I was curious if anyone else had a similar experience.

 

[MICHAELSD]

We’ve spent more than four years in this thread talking this issue to death with no real solutions to speak of aside from hoping the new iPhones are better each year. Trying a patch for a few days is nowhere near extreme, lol.

It may be nothing, or it may be a potential lead. That’s why I was curious if anyone else had a similar experience.

I applaud the ingenuity and willingness to find a solution.

The fact remains that if we keep pushing the issue hard enough one day these displays will be flicker-free again or Apple will continue raising the frequency until it’s no longer an issue.

There are ways to manage tension headaches and migraines, including coffee/caffeine and exercise. That being said, these solutions may not be enough to make it practical for long-term use.

I do have to say that typing this out on an iPhone 13 Mini with the auto-brightness at ~ 10% is a dramatic improvement from iPhone 12 Pro Max. I did workout and have quite a bit of coffee beforehand, but I can currently use it almost as if there was no flicker whatsoever.

I didn’t experiment enough with iPhone 13 Pro apparently if I’m doing relatively well with iPhone 13 Mini. The most drastic issues may become more apparent once I’m outside using the display at the typical flicker rate rather than the 60Hz rate that’s enabled at lower brightness levels.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I must say that even on slo-mo camera iPhone 13 Mini looks like a drastic improvement from iPhone 12.

I’ve been using it all-night with extremely minimal migraines. Watching videos isn’t ideal since I can still get mild migraines, but I also found that to be better than my experience with iPhone 13 Pro. I may feel it later, for now it’s been working surprisingly well.

 

[karinatwork]

Day 3 with the iPhone 13 Pro. Still no headaches. I am getting more confident, spending more time on it. Will update again.

 

[BigMcGuire]

May not be related to PWM but, after owning the Xs Max, 11 Pro Max, 12 Pro Max, and the 13 Pro Max - the 13 PM seems to have significantly lower end brightness than the previous two phones (meaning it’s a lot darker at lowest brightness setting) and … when I try to read white text on back backgrounds under 20% brightness my eyes lose the ability to focus on the text. Didn’t have this problem on my 12 PM like I do with my 13 PM. Doesn’t make it impossible to read, but definitely fuzzy.

My 13PM is just beautful to read in the day time or with brightness >25%. But in dark light and below 25% my eyes just go fuzzy on it despite it being inches from my face (I’m very nearsighted).

 

[now i see it]

May not be related to PWM

It is.
LCD displays don’t do that.

 

[BigMcGuire]

It is.
LCD displays don’t do that.

Guess I should be grateful I don’t get headaches - just blurry text at extremely low brightness lol. That said, I do find it a lot more pleasant to read text on my iPad Pro 11 and don’t have problems focusing on the text despite it being even 0% brightness in some cases (LCD). Interesting.

 

[now i see it]

@BigMcGuire
Out of curiosity —
Get a strong magnifying glass if you’ve got one and turn the iPhone display all the way down till it looks blurry to you, then examine some text (individual letters) with your magnifying glass to see if the letters actually are blurry or it’s your eyes going haywire when looking at the full dim screen in it’s flickering glory.

1. Either the drawing of the text by the display actually gets soft at low brightness

Or

2. The PWM is so nasty that your eyes can’t hold a focus.

 

[BigMcGuire]

@BigMcGuire
Out of curiosity —
Get a strong magnifying glass if you’ve got one and turn the iPhone display all the way down till it looks blurry to you, then examine some text (individual letters) with your magnifying glass to see if the letters actually are blurry or it’s your eyes going haywire when looking at the full dim screen in it’s flickering glory.

1. Either the drawing of the text by the display actually gets soft at low brightness

Or

2. The PWM is so nasty that your eyes can’t hold a focus.

Will give that a try tonight and report!

I am going to guess #2 because if I squint or pull the sides of my eyes with my hands the text gets sharp. Only seems to happen at near or full dim on pages with black backgrounds (truly black) and white text.

 

[now i see it]

Even on my LCD iPhone (8+) and my 6+ before it, when the room is dark and the display is turned way down so it’s dim, I’ve always noticed that I can’t focus my eyes as well on the display. Stuff is blurrier.
I think (in my case at least)it’s because the pupils in the eyes are fully dilated wide open which makes focusing more difficult compared to light hitting the retina through constricted smaller pupils.
That’s why squinting or peering through tiny peep holes is sharper. The light is coming from a smaller opening which is easier to focus on.
(Obviously I’m not an Opthamologist)

 

[BigMcGuire]

Even on my LCD iPhone (8+) and my 6+ before it, when the room is dark and the display is turned way down so it’s dim, I’ve always noticed that I can’t focus my eyes as well on the display. Stuff is blurrier.
I think (in my case at least)it’s because the pupils in the eyes are fully dilated wide open which makes focusing more difficult compared to light hitting the retina through constricted smaller pupils.
That’s why squinting or peering through tiny peep holes is sharper. The light is coming from a smaller opening which is easier to focus on.
(Obviously I’m not an Opthamologist)

Yeah, I did some reading on this and either I’m getting older so I’m noticing it more or because the iPhone 13 PM can go a lot dimmer than my 12PM could. I think that’s it. Yep.

 

[MICHAELSD]

My speculation was correct: using iPhone 13 Mini at a normal brightness level during the day leads to the usual PWM symptoms. Maybe slightly subdued, but still totally apparent.

 

[RD207]

I don’t get headaches from my 12, but I do get eye fatigue and eyes sometimes spasm when tired with apple OLED.

 

[RD207]

Has anyone noticed that they can tolerate looking at oled from an off angle? My significant other has an iPhone 13 and previously had an iPhone X and if I was looking at the screen at a 45° angle from the side it did not bother me but if I looked at it straight on it did bother me. I’m not sure what could account for this?

Yes, I have, I’m doing right now on my iPhone 12, except I tilt the top back 25-35 degrees. I also do it when my eyes are tired at night.

 

[RD207]

I’ve been happily using my 13 Pro for just over a week now. Even sent off my 11 last week, so I’m committed.

No eye strain issues at all. Completely expected, since I previously worked my way through every new model and found the 13 Pro to be the only one without issues for me.

For anyone who didn’t follow my journey through iPhone insanity, in summary:

• 13 and 13 mini: consistently gave me nausea after around 10 minutes. I even tried two 13s.
• 13 Pro Max: severe eye strain, itchiness, redness etc. I could feel it within minutes of use and my eyes were a wreck after trying to use the phone for a week.
• 13 Pro: bizarrely, no problems at all.

We’ve covered it a lot in the last couple of months since this year’s launch, but the 13/13 mini, 13 Pro and 13 Pro Max all flicker at different frequencies and the 13 Pro seems to have DC dimming integration, according to NotebookCheck. The 12 Pro also apparently has this.

It’s well established that all of our experiences are unique to some degree. I feel very lucky that I found a new model that works for me and will be very careful with my next upgrade, whenever it’ll be in the next few years. I definitely won’t be changing phone again for a while…

I’m really enjoying the 13 Pro and feel it’s the best balance between size and features. The mini is very cool, but too small for me. The Max is amazing for videos and games, and the battery life is bonkers, but it’s too big and heavy to be practical for me. It’s a relief to be back on the 13 Pro’s size after previously using the 12 Pro Max and 11. This is all ignoring the complexity added by PWM, of course.

I also got lucky and got one without any uniformity or tint issues, as that seems to be a particularly common issue this year.

Anyway, I thought I’d post what will likely be my final update for this iPhone season. I will continue to monitor this thread and will chip in with the discussion from time to time.

Good luck to anyone still searching for a new iPhone and thanks to everyone who’s shared their experiences and thoughts!

This is encouraging to hear! I plan to upgrade to the Pro as well. I have new transitions xtractive lenses on the way that are suppose to help with LED eye fatigue. I have yet to receive them.