Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[5105973]

My day (evening) 3 of using iPhone 14:

My eyes do not like this screen at all. I can feel them twitching and stinging. I'm starting to feel waves/pulses across my brain at the front of my head. Sounds a bit sci-fi/horror film - but my eyes are clearly sending signals across my brain, this is leading to some tension headache feelings.

I'm feeling after 3 evenings of use I'm storing up a headache storm or my body will cave and I will just feel sick! Definitely forcing myself to plow on as I'm loving using a modern iphone and I'm all out of options.

This is worse than the first time I tried a 14 with a yellowish display as that only really gave me feelings of motion sickness and general unease. My eyes were a little irritated but not like this. I think the redder display definitely doesn't agree with me or its my settings with white point and brightness? Definitely can't switch off WP though as this makes text look shimmery and I feel queasy.

Taking a break but that's after less than an hours use. 😑

Oh Jimmy I know that weird sensation across your forehead you’re describing! That’s not good. That’s probably an atypical migraine. Please be careful because it could get really bad one day.

In me it used to take seizure form when I was going through menopause. And long ago I remember now I went through seizures when I was going through puberty, too. But we didn’t know what they were back then. I did not have ready access to medical care. I didn’t seem like I was going to die from whatever it was so we all just shrugged it off as me being a weird kid.

My dad: “what the hell was that? Was that a temper tantrum?”

Me: “I don’t know.”

My mom: “You’ve been studying too hard.”

And that was about it. None of us wanted a huge medical bill because our health insurance at the time was garbage.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Officially out for another season (year 5 into 6)
My eyes are sore and tired today + I am struggling with my 7 Plus now.
It's ain't worth it so the 14 mk2 is being returned.
See you all next year......

Thanks for all the replies and everyone's contribution to this mammoth thread. 🙏


Blessings and best wishes to: GrumpyMom, happy orchard, john g. now i see it, Siamese_Dream, Ac1d 8urn, MICHAELSD, DJTaurus, AJTC, Chrispy, WalterSobchak, kerplunknet, GlenK and everyone in the thread.

 

[5105973]

Officially out for another season (year 5 into 6)
My eyes are sore and tired today + I am struggling with my 7 Plus now.
It's ain't worth it so the 14 mk2 is being returned.
See you all next year......

Thanks for all the replies and everyone's contribution to this mammoth thread. 🙏


Blessings and best wishes to: GrumpyMom, happy orchard, john g. now i see it, Siamese_Dream, Ac1d 8urn, MICHAELSD, DJTaurus, AJTC, Chrispy, WalterSobchak, kerplunknet, GlenK

I’m sorry Jimmy. I’m kind of at a loss for words for you. Too many emotions about this. Sadness and frustration being the most prominent.

I can use my 14 Pro Max enough to justify keeping it but I’m now getting small headaches from it when I try to do too much on it. I can look at it about 40 minutes without problems and that’s not too bad. On rare occasions I can get almost 90 minutes! I can’t blame a concussion now because I’m not getting the same headaches on my iPhone 11. On my iPhone 11 I get eye strain. Sigh.

I’m on my iPad mini to type this. I put the iPad 10 on my Christmas wish list. We will see how that goes. I hope there is no jelly scroll on it. If it works out, I’ll set the 10 up in my kitchen on the keyboard folio they sell for it and that’s where I’ll be doing my emails and surfing. I hate typing on the iPad mini. It’s buggy.

I have a MacBook Air but I mostly play Sims on that and edit photos. I’ll eventually teach myself how to edit videos on it when I have more spare time. The display is hard for me to look at text on for very long. And I prefer ios and iPad OS to Mac OS these days, especially for something like consulting recipes, which is what I want the 10 set up in the kitchen for.

 

[5105973]

I am doing some little research into understanding the different kinds of displays because of my sudden interest in the iPad 10. I learned the iPad 10 display is sRGB. All the other iPads considered current including my mini 6 that I’m on at the moment are pci 3 which means more colors. I don’t know if the 10 being sRGB will be a good thing or a bad thing for me. Just because it’s a older standard doesn’t mean a good thing if the software enforces temporal dithering.

Anyway I came across this interesting discussion on temporal dithering and operating systems imposing it on the hardware.

I encourage everyone, especially @jimmy_uk to read that discussion for scary but important tidbits like this:

“
Thank you for the informative post!
I have been reading on other forums. It seems there are a growing number of people affected by this. One person said they had an MRI done on their eyes. The MRI showed "damage to the frontal cortex consistent with trauma caused by numerous sub-clinical seizures".
https://community.intel.com/t5/Graphics/eye-strain/m-p/535914
I am going to get my own MRI done.
I signed the change.org petition and will be posting it to other forums. Any chance you know who wrote that? Maybe we could amend it to include other vendors and devices, not just Apple, and it would be good to include phones too. Or maybe it would be good to petition to have this condition officially recognized as a disability.
There are some of us that are worried we won't be able to work in a few years because of this. “

 

[MICHAELSD]

I couldn’t resist the temptation.

iPhone 14 in an Apple Store felt the closest to DC dimming we’ve had on an OLED iPhone, and the same display quality I loved on iPhone 13 Mini. 🤞

 

[5105973]

It sounds like sensitivity to temporal dithering is even more rare than PWM sensitivity, it is next to impossible to find much about it online or even on discussion forums- but maybe that is a possibility for those few who have experienced some issues on the SE, 11, etc?

And that shimmering in your eye- you don't, by chance, have astigmatism, do you? Just curious if that might cause weird things like what you described.

I have mild astigmatism in one eye but I forgot which one! I was told about it years ago and the doctor said it was so minor it didn’t really need to be corrected. He’s never mentioned it since.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I have mild astigmatism in one eye but I forgot which one! I was told about it years ago and the doctor said it was so minor it didn’t really need to be corrected. He’s never mentioned it since.

Was the concerning MRI in reference to the temporal dithering?

 

[5105973]

Was the concerning MRI in reference to the temporal dithering?

I think so. The discussion was centered on temporal dithering.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I think so. The discussion was centered on temporal dithering.

Thankfully PWM doesn’t seem to cause measurable nerve issues at least.

 

[john g.]

I couldn’t resist the temptation.

iPhone 14 in an Apple Store felt the closest to DC dimming we’ve had on an OLED iPhone, and the same display quality I loved on iPhone 13 Mini. 🤞

Please keep us posted. I'm trying out the 14+ and there are good and bad things and I will post some stuff when I have more time with it. I prefer the smaller size I think, but wow does the screen look great on the plus

 

[5105973]

Thankfully PWM doesn’t seem to cause measurable nerve issues at least.

Several pages back someone popped in to say they were diagnosed with permanent inflammation in their brain due to pwm and now live with a constant headache that is permanent and untreatable. I think they made only one post. I think they posted in early October.

I found it. I just put a new post referencing the original post. We should periodically repost it.

 

[5105973]

I have messaged on this thread a few times in the past.

For all those stating you feel some pain or strain with the new Iphone 14 plus etc but you're gonna give it a few weeks to see how it goes, please reconsider this.

I am almost two years with a headache after an iphone 12pro gave me a headache, two weeks later I went back to my 11 and the pain started to subside, but the damage was done.

I have paid hundreds with a private neurologist who has diagnosed me with New Peristent Daily Headache(NPDH). The pain never goes, and never will. Usually brought on by viral infection but can be triggered but other means, repetative eye strain being one. It triggers pain within glands in the brain.

I have tried lost of drugs, some which have been effective but the pain breaks through them after time. Next month I am starting botox therapy, 37 injections in my scalp every 10 weeks.

Appreciate this PWM issue is only a very small percentage of iphone users, and the chance of someone new also getting my condition is even lower but if there is pain, please stop.

I would gladly use a Nokia 3310 for the rest of my life if it meant my condition went away.

I’m reviving this post because it’s pertinent again to remind us what’s at stake.

 

[jm31828]

Thankfully PWM doesn’t seem to cause measurable nerve issues at least.

Interesting-temporal dithering does? So temporal dithering in theory is more dangerous than pwm?

Next question then-?how can we find out if Apple’s latest lcd phones (SE models, 11) have temporal dithering? I’d read speculation that they do, but would love to find out for sure.

And we know Notebookcheck verified no temporal dithering on the 14 pro- so what about the regular 14?

Edit:
I found on Apple’s website that the SE has “wide color display -p3”.
I assume that means temporal dithering is involved?

Edit:
I looked up the tech specs on Apple’s website for the 7, 8, and 8 plus- they all say “wide color display- p3”. Older ones like the original SE say sRGB- so I’m not sure if that means all of the LCD displays all the way back to the 7 had temporal dithering?

 

[jm31828]

I couldn’t resist the temptation.

iPhone 14 in an Apple Store felt the closest to DC dimming we’ve had on an OLED iPhone, and the same display quality I loved on iPhone 13 Mini.

That’s fantastic! I assume that means it’s a keeper?

 

[esaelias187]

Sorry to hear that!
It's very possible it might be the dithering. I am not sure if the 8 had temporal dithering- but maybe not from what you are seeing in your different reactions to those two?

And I don't want to celebrate too soon- it's possible I just had a good day in regards to the phone.... if today goes well, then maybe I will be able to say I'm adjusting to it. My eyes admittedly are weird in that any screen seems to require some adjustment, and after a while I am fine- at least in the past with LCD screens on phones, laptops, even TV's.

But, if this continues at all I will still want to look into trying the 14... they are in stock in every color and capacity at my local Apple store, so I could stop in and pick one up to test. Still sort of itching to do that anyway, since there is no real loss in doing so with the holiday return period.

You are receiving your 14 today, correct?

I returned it as therre was an issue with shipment

Iv ordered the iphone 11

Also as weird as it sounds im going replace my iphone se screen with the iphone 8 screen

 

[esaelias187]

Interesting-temporal dithering does? So temporal dithering in theory is more dangerous than pwm?

Next question then-?how can we find out if Apple’s latest lcd phones (SE models, 11) have temporal dithering? I’d read speculation that they do, but would love to find out for sure.

And we know Notebookcheck verified no temporal dithering on the 14 pro- so what about the regular 14?

Edit:
I found on Apple’s website that the SE has “wide color display -p3”.
I assume that means temporal dithering is involved?

Edit:
I looked up the tech specs on Apple’s website for the 7, 8, and 8 plus- they all say “wide color display- p3”. Older ones like the original SE say sRGB- so I’m not sure if that means all of the LCD displays all the way back to the 7 had temporal dithering?

Maybe thats why the screen is hurting me? Iphone se srgb

Im gnnachange the iphone 8 screen and replace with iphone se

 

[esaelias187]

It sounds like sensitivity to temporal dithering is even more rare than PWM sensitivity, it is next to impossible to find much about it online or even on discussion forums- but maybe that is a possibility for those few who have experienced some issues on the SE, 11, etc?

And that shimmering in your eye- you don't, by chance, have astigmatism, do you? Just curious if that might cause weird things like what you described.

I have astamgism and also iphone 11 for me was fine

But that is simialr screen to iphoje 8

I think se screen different

 

[happy orchard]

I returned it as therre was an issue with shipment

Iv ordered the iphone 11

Also as weird as it sounds im going replace my iphone se screen with the iphone 8 screen

Oooo, let us know how you do that. I keep thinking about the SE, but I like the white bezels on my 8. And hearing people talk about some issues with the SE screen, I'm thinking switching screens might be cool.

 

[esaelias187]

Oooo, let us know how you do that. I keep thinking about the SE, but I like the white bezels on my 8. And hearing people talk about some issues with the SE screen, I'm thinking switching screens might be cool.

I read online its a direct swap
Jus scared i do it and its the same but the iphone 8 screen cause no issues for me

 

[jm31828]

I went to the Apple Store today to look at the 14 non pro.

I played with it for 10-15 minutes and didn’t necessarily have any issues, at least nothing really obvious. I already had a minor headache when I went so it’s hard to say, but looking at the phone didn’t make it any worse.

I didn’t buy one though because I just couldn’t decide… I don’t like the bigger size, really do like my SE- but I think I really should pick one up to test while I hold onto the SE until making a final decision.

What really turned me off was that I took slow mo video of the display and it flickered like crazy, no different than any other phone there from the 12 and 13 series. It may be ok, but just seeing that almost assured that I’ll be thinking of that when I use it, bothering me in s psychosomatic way.

Does anyone here know if oled phones like the 13 and 14 series have temporal dithering like the lcd phones do?
I know notebookcheck tested the 14 pro and found no dithering- so I assume that would mean the regular 14 is probably fine, too- but it’s anybody’s guess on the 13 series?

Honestly I really like the 13 mini- fantastic size similar to my SE, but who knows if it has dithering on top of the rather rough pwm.

 

[AJAAY]

Looks like I'll be going back to my 8 plus. From my last post, I was waiting to try the 14 pro max. I received it and started using it. Kept getting an on and off headache every few days. It was the type of headache that would just drain me. One thing I did notice was when setting up Face ID during the setup process, I didn't feel a thing. Usually I feel a tension during the Face ID scanning. So the Face ID sensors on the pro versions must be different somehow with the dynamic island.

I returned the 14 pro max to try another regular 13 (which I'm currently using). It's still nothing like the first one I tried back in August. With this one, I'm getting an on and off tension in the back of my head and now getting the lightening bolt flashes in the corner of my left eye (which I got all year and half when using the 11 pro max). I'm in the holiday return period with this one. So I'm tempted to see if I can keep it until January.

To be honest, I am really enjoying MagSafe. It has improved my phone experience tremendously! I drive sporadically for DD, UE and GH, and I bought a MagSafe vent holder. It is now much easier to remove and attach my phone to the car vent when getting in and out of the car all the time.

Anyway, I really do hope something comes of the SE plus.

 

[asus389]

I went to the Apple Store today to look at the 14 non pro.

I played with it for 10-15 minutes and didn’t necessarily have any issues, at least nothing really obvious. I already had a minor headache when I went so it’s hard to say, but looking at the phone didn’t make it any worse.

I didn’t buy one though because I just couldn’t decide… I don’t like the bigger size, really do like my SE- but I think I really should pick one up to test while I hold onto the SE until making a final decision.

What really turned me off was that I took slow mo video of the display and it flickered like crazy, no different than any other phone there from the 12 and 13 series. It may be ok, but just seeing that almost assured that I’ll be thinking of that when I use it, bothering me in s psychosomatic way.

Does anyone here know if oled phones like the 13 and 14 series have temporal dithering like the lcd phones do?
I know notebookcheck tested the 14 pro and found no dithering- so I assume that would mean the regular 14 is probably fine, too- but it’s anybody’s guess on the 13 series?

Honestly I really like the 13 mini- fantastic size similar to my SE, but who knows if it has dithering on top of the rather rough pwm.

You pretty much have to go based on if you get symptoms are not. I wouldn't rely on any testing by websites or how it looks in slow motion on a certain fps camera. If you have an SE and it works for you, then that's good - hold on to it. OLED phones seem to either generate symptoms consistently or not for people. The only way to know is to try it out.

 

[jm31828]

Here’s an interesting video- I’m not sure how this would really help with actual pwm sensitivity issues- any thoughts?

 

[Ac1d 8urn]

Closing out day 3 with the 14 plus, so far so good. I was worried cause I did feel some eyestrain yesterday and today, but it turned out it was from the screen protector I cheaped out on at the apple store. I refused to leave without a case & screen protector b/c I WILL immediately drop it on the concrete otherwise, but they didn't have my preferred Zagg Visionguard. I had them put on the $20 matte film protector and apparently my eyes are NOT fans of matte screens. lol. It caused a weird glare and was kind of distorting text so I was straining a bit to read. I put on a Visionguard tonight and it's muuuuch better now. I don't know if the Visionguard actually does anything legit or if it's just a placebo effect, but I do like them and I do think it's what helped me limp along with my 13 pro for 2 months without debilitating migraines. Anywho, I've been on my phone for 3+ hours today and NO HEADACHE!

Bear in mind, this is just the phone that works for me. I don't want to give anyone false hope, but I think it's worth giving the 14+ a try if you haven't already, especially since it can be returned through January.

Officially out for another season (year 5 into 6)
My eyes are sore and tired today + I am struggling with my 7 Plus now.
It's ain't worth it so the 14 mk2 is being returned.
See you all next year......

Thanks for all the replies and everyone's contribution to this mammoth thread. 🙏


Blessings and best wishes to: GrumpyMom, happy orchard, john g. now i see it, Siamese_Dream, Ac1d 8urn, MICHAELSD, DJTaurus, AJTC, Chrispy, WalterSobchak, kerplunknet, GlenK and everyone in the thread.

Nooooo! Really sorry to hear that, friend Keeping my fingers crossed for you and everyone else still searching that next year you'll have some luck.

 

[Ac1d 8urn]

Here’s an interesting video- I’m not sure how this would really help with actual pwm sensitivity issues- any thoughts?

I saw this earlier tonight on reddit. I tried the settings just for giggles and it did make the screen, I dunno, easier to look at? I set the intensity a bit lower than he did though, it was too bluish any higher.