Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[jm31828]

I saw this earlier tonight on reddit. I tried the settings just for giggles and it did make the screen, I dunno, easier to look at? I set the intensity a bit lower than he did though, it was too bluish any higher.

Interesting! Any thoughts on this truly being the magic bullet for you?
And are you pretty sensitive to the pwm on your phone, or is yours more mild?

 

[jm31828]

In regards to temporal dithering that some iPhone models do to achieve the higher p3 color palette, does anyone know how that works? Does it really only occur when watching hdr videos?
Just curious as I am reading more about temporal dithering possibly being a culprit for at least some who have sensitivity to iPhone displays.

 

[Ac1d 8urn]

Interesting! Any thoughts on this truly being the magic bullet for you?
And are you pretty sensitive to the pwm on your phone, or is yours more mild?

I'll have to test it for a few days, but it does seem to help a bit! Very odd solution but if it works...

I don't really know how sensitive I am honestly. I want to say I'm on the lesser side since I can use some phones that bother others, but I also can't use some phones that everyone else seems to do fine with. There are a lot of PWM people who did fine with the 13 pro & mini for example, but both gave me pretty bad & frequent headaches. So far I've had the best luck by avoiding ProMotion/variable refresh rates and going with bigger screens. I do best with LCD(7+ and 8+ gave me zero issues), but the bigger OLED on my 14+ is probably the least irritating OLED I've ever used. We're still waiting for an official accurate PWM frequency on it and the smaller 14, hopefully it comes out soon cause it will be really interesting to compare it to past phones.

 

[OnawaAfrica]

Hello all,

I thought I'd post here about an issue I've been having and see if anyone else is experiencing the same thing.

When I'm using the phone my eyes feel strained, like, they're trying to focus on the screen. Also, I've noticed that when I look away from my phone at something else, my eyes feel a little blurry and I have to blink.

Not sure why this is happening. I've tweaked with all the various displays settings (TrueTone/Night Shift/White balance), but nothing seems to make a real difference. Not using a screen protector.

Anyone else?

its more likely to get a eyestrain from reading threads like that.

 

[esaelias187]

I went to the Apple Store today to look at the 14 non pro.

I played with it for 10-15 minutes and didn’t necessarily have any issues, at least nothing really obvious. I already had a minor headache when I went so it’s hard to say, but looking at the phone didn’t make it any worse.

I didn’t buy one though because I just couldn’t decide… I don’t like the bigger size, really do like my SE- but I think I really should pick one up to test while I hold onto the SE until making a final decision.

What really turned me off was that I took slow mo video of the display and it flickered like crazy, no different than any other phone there from the 12 and 13 series. It may be ok, but just seeing that almost assured that I’ll be thinking of that when I use it, bothering me in s psychosomatic way.

Does anyone here know if oled phones like the 13 and 14 series have temporal dithering like the lcd phones do?
I know notebookcheck tested the 14 pro and found no dithering- so I assume that would mean the regular 14 is probably fine, too- but it’s anybody’s guess on the 13 series?

Honestly I really like the 13 mini- fantastic size similar to my SE, but who knows if it has dithering on top of the rather rough pwm.

Im actually going to replace the iphone se screen with my old iphone 8

Online reports say if can or cantb done and i may lost touch id so ill confirm

But ill confirm if true wont go ahead
I like the se andthe speed

 

[jm31828]

Im actually going to replace the iphone se screen with my old iphone 8

Online reports say if can or cantb done and i may lost touch id so ill confirm

But ill confirm if true wont go ahead
I like the se andthe speed

It’s so interesting that the SE is doing this to you but the 8 does not. Everything I have read says they are the same exact screens. I wonder if it’s actually in the chip, and how it chooses to optimize colors on that display?

I still have occasional dry eyes using my SE, kind of a biting feeling around the edges if my eyeballs… but it’s not all the time now- sometimes I can sit down for an hour session and have no trouble, and others I notice something just when using it for a few moments.

I think dark mode is more gentle on my eyes, so I’ll try turning that on 100% of the time.

I also couldn’t tell if the 14 was a problem for my eyes when I played with it in the store yesterday. I may have to just buy one snd try it for a week to really see how it goes. I’d really miss the SE if the 14 was truly better on my eyes, but at this point I’ll be happy with whatever is the least bothersome on my eyes.

 

[john g.]

So far I've had the best luck by avoiding ProMotion/variable refresh rates and going with bigger screens. I do best with LCD(7+ and 8+ gave me zero issues), but the bigger OLED on my 14+ is probably the least irritating OLED I've ever used.

I’m starting to think that this might be a thing with me as well. It feels like the promotion could be another thing that contributes to overall eyestrain for me. Variable refresh rates could possibly be the future on all iPhones but i’m not sure I’ll be happy about it.

 

[now i see it]

iPhone Land is such a mess.
No other product that I can think of causes such difficulties.
This thread must be the vocal minority of the minority minority because no company could last putting out garbage like this

 

[MICHAELSD]

Several pages back someone popped in to say they were diagnosed with permanent inflammation in their brain due to pwm and now live with a constant headache that is permanent and untreatable. I think they made only one post. I think they posted in early October.

I found it. I just put a new post referencing the original post. We should periodically repost it.

That’s one of my concerns, as I do get headaches that remain quite persistent after using these iPhones.

I initially liked this iPhone 14 during the setup as the white backgrounds appeared bright and uniform, but I’m getting tension headaches typing this now. I really thought that maybe the last notched OLED iPhone would work without causing PWM sensitivity.

 

[MICHAELSD]

That’s fantastic! I assume that means it’s a keeper?

I thought maybe at first this would be a unicorn DC dimming iPhone that would cause no headaches and I’d be able to keep it for the next year, but unfortunately I’m finding quite quickly that’s not the case.

I had the slo-mo in my head, but then playing with one in an Apple Store yielded a crisp, clear, colorful display with no apparent PWM—sometimes we forget that the flicker isn’t supposed to be visible in use. Maybe they’re just easier on the eyes, but I prefer these OLED panels to the LTPO on the Pro models. Still that varied as some iPhone 14’s looked better than the iPhone 14 Pro next to it and vice versa.

My optimism with these 60Hz iPhones was that since the high-frequency PWM on the Mini LED displays, including the newest 12.9” iPad Pro with a 20,000Hz rate, bother me was that this would be similar to an Apple Watch where the amplitudes are low enough where I don’t pick up on the flicker. But that hasn’t been the case. iPhone 14 Plus also seemed to immediately bother me in an Apple Store, but I preferred the 6.1” size after seeing how it isn’t too much larger than iPhone SE.

I thought that if Apple moved away from 610Hz on iPhone 13, which still caused measurable issues for me, that the 60Hz on iPhone 14 would be drastically better. The display looks nice, but there’s still a slight PWM sensitivity in the background.

A bit of a shame since I was excited originally thinking that this would be the first OLED iPhone I could keep long-term, but I’m quickly finding that isn’t the case. Upon first impression I had a better experience with iPhone 14 Pro Max, but I do like the smaller size now.

I woke up with a headache from my MacBook Pro, which I figured could bias results, but it’s still apparent that I’m sensitive to the PWM on this iPhone.

I’ll continue to leave auto-brightness on, as no combination of settings seems to reduce sensitivity.

So that probably leaves us another iPhone generation without truly viable options for PWM-sensitive users, but users seem to have varying levels of success.

 

[john g.]

I thought maybe at first this would be a unicorn DC dimming iPhone that would cause no headaches and I’d be able to keep it for the next year, but unfortunately I’m finding quite quickly that’s not the case.

I had the slo-mo in my head, but then playing with one in an Apple Store yielded a crisp, clear, colorful display with no apparent PWM—sometimes we forget that the flicker isn’t supposed to be visible in use. Maybe they’re just easier on the eyes, but I prefer these OLED panels to the LTPO on the Pro models. Still that varied as some iPhone 14’s looked better than the iPhone 14 Pro next to it and vice versa.

My optimism with these 60Hz iPhones was that since the high-frequency PWM on the Mini LED displays, including the newest 12.9” iPad Pro with a 20,000Hz rate, bother me was that this would be similar to an Apple Watch where the amplitudes are low enough where I don’t pick up on the flicker. But that hasn’t been the case. iPhone 14 Plus also seemed to immediately bother me in an Apple Store, but I preferred the 6.1” size after seeing how it isn’t too much larger than iPhone SE.

I thought that if Apple moved away from 610Hz on iPhone 13, which still caused measurable issues for me, that the 60Hz on iPhone 14 would be drastically better. The display looks nice, but there’s still a slight PWM sensitivity in the background.

A bit of a shame since I was excited originally thinking that this would be the first OLED iPhone I could keep long-term, but I’m quickly finding that isn’t the case. Upon first impression I had a better experience with iPhone 14 Pro Max, but I do like the smaller size now.

I woke up with a headache from my MacBook Pro, which I figured could bias results, but it’s still apparent that I’m sensitive to the PWM on this iPhone.

I’ll continue to leave auto-brightness on, as no combination of settings seems to reduce sensitivity.

So that probably leaves us another iPhone generation without truly viable options for PWM-sensitive users, but users seem to have varying levels of success.

I wouldn’t blame you if you were exhausted and didn’t want to try one more single thing. I will tell you though that I am experiencing a difference between the regular 14 that I tried a month ago and the 14+. Both had good screens but because I have aging eyes and I use the zoomed display setting and have a bit larger text, it is better on the plus than the regular size. It is far too cramped on the smaller size and my eyes experience strain from that as well. I can have everything pumped up on the plus and there’s room around everything and it just feels more relaxing to my eyes.

It’s too soon to say if I am going to keep the 14+. But I think I can say it’s the best screen between both pros that I’ve tried and the regular 14. For me.

Then again I don’t get headaches like you. My symptoms are some motion sickness and occasional dizziness. For sure I can see where that might lead to tension and a mild headache but nothing like what you experience. If you don’t mind me saying, that MacBook Pro needs to go. 🙂

 

[MICHAELSD]

I wouldn’t blame you if you were exhausted and didn’t want to try one more single thing. I will tell you though that I am experiencing a difference between the regular 14 that I tried a month ago and the 14+. Both had good screens but because I have aging eyes and I use the zoomed display setting and have a bit larger text, it is better on the plus than the regular size. It is far too cramped on the smaller size and my eyes experience strain from that as well. I can have everything pumped up on the plus and there’s room around everything and it just feels more relaxing to my eyes.

It’s too soon to say if I am going to keep the 14+. But I think I can say it’s the best screen between both pros that I’ve tried and the regular 14. For me.

Then again I don’t get headaches like you. My symptoms are some motion sickness and occasional dizziness. For sure I can see where that might lead to tension and a mild headache but nothing like what you experience. If you don’t mind me saying, that MacBook Pro needs to go. 🙂

I suppose if Apple doesn’t mind, but iPhone 14 seemed to bother me less in an Apple Store. I didn’t spend more than a few seconds with iPhone 14 Plus, and I did notice some PWM sensitivity.

There’s environmental bias being in a store with bright lighting. I’m just skeptical that iPhone 14 Plus will be significantly better. I was skeptical about iPhone 14 as well, but optimistically so like I would enjoy it like iPhone 13 Mini and experience little-to-no PWM sensitivity.

As noted I’ll wait for @pwm away to share his findings before considering testing another iPhone. After just under an hour of use I can say that I had a better experience with iPhone 14 Pro Max, so maybe iPhone 14 Pro is the ideal current-generation iPhone for me—but I should probably just wait until next generation at this point.

I should list the 14” MBP for sale; however, I’m anticipating it to be a hassle and a half.

 

[john g.]

I suppose if Apple doesn’t mind, but iPhone 14 seemed to bother me less in an Apple Store. I didn’t spend more than a few seconds with iPhone 14 Plus, and I did notice some PWM sensitivity.

There’s environmental bias being in a store with bright lighting. I’m just skeptical that iPhone 14 Plus will be significantly better. I was skeptical about iPhone 14 as well, but optimistically so like I would enjoy it like iPhone 13 Mini and experience little-to-no PWM sensitivity.

As noted I’ll wait for @pwm away to share his findings before considering testing another iPhone. After just under an hour of use I can say that I had a better experience with iPhone 14 Pro Max, so maybe iPhone 14 Pro is the ideal current-generation iPhone for me—but I should probably just wait until next generation at this point.

I should list the 14” MBP for sale; however, I’m anticipating it to be a hassle and a half.

I know. That’s the thing about any kind of recommendation. My symptoms are much different than yours and what might work for me might make your situation worse of course. Good luck!

I would try and get rid of that MacBook Pro before the new models come out

Edit: Besides, grain of salt required here. I’m not even sure I’m keeping my 14 Plus

 

[MICHAELSD]

I know. That’s the thing about any kind of recommendation. My symptoms are much different than yours and what might work for me might make your situation worse of course. Good luck!

I would try and get rid of that MacBook Pro before the new models come out

That’s why I don’t feel too badly about trying multiple iPhones after avoiding OLED for two generations: they all have different rates that could affect us differently. Notebookcheck says that iPhone 14 Plus has 59Hz DC dimming that shouldn’t bother even sensitive users, but iPhone 14 looked similar and maybe even slightly better.

But I guess I’m just sensitive to PWM on Apple products at this point and it doesn’t matter whether it’s 60Hz or 20,000Hz: we need true DC dimming.

It also made me curious since no users were reporting the similar tension headache and migraine symptoms. I could probably deal with slight dizziness or motion sickness. It’s just like my nervous system picks up on the flicker, and I feel a throbbing at the back of my eye in response—even five years after iPhone X.

I suppose I should at least make an effort to sell the MacBook Pro, as I do keep it in mint condition. Slightly disappointing I can’t even enjoy that if I still can’t use a modern iPhone. But iPhone 14 Pro Max was almost close enough that it could have been just about usable without the MacBook Pro.

 

[john g.]

That’s why I don’t feel too badly about trying multiple iPhones after avoiding OLED for two generations: they all have different rates that could affect us differently. Notebookcheck says that iPhone 14 Plus has 59Hz DC dimming that shouldn’t bother even sensitive users, but iPhone 14 looked similar and maybe even slightly better.

But I guess I’m just sensitive to PWM on Apple products at this point and it doesn’t matter whether it’s 60Hz or 20,000Hz: we need true DC dimming.

It also made me curious since no users were reporting the similar tension headache and migraine symptoms. I could probably deal with slight dizziness or motion sickness. It’s just like my nervous system picks up on the flicker, and I feel a throbbing at the back of my eye in response—even five years after iPhone X.

I suppose I should at least make an effort to sell the MacBook Pro, as I do keep it in mint condition. Slightly disappointing I can’t even enjoy that if I still can’t use a modern iPhone. But iPhone 14 Pro Max was almost close enough that it could have been just about usable without the MacBook Pro.

We all support each other here, but we also enable each other

part of me wants to suggest you give the plus a try in the hopes that you will finally get satisfaction. But I think we both know that these OLED screens are poison for some. Better than the X though!

 

[MICHAELSD]

We all support each other here, but we also enable each other

part of me wants to suggest you give the plus a try in the hopes that you will finally get satisfaction. But I think we both know that these OLED screens are poison for some. Better than the X though!

I can already say iPhone 14 Pro Max was a better experience, just not perfect. I truly expected this iPhone 14 to be the first usable OLED iPhone.

I’m just not sure how much longer we’ll have to wait at this point. No longer using PWM would probably eliminate >99% of issues.

 

[esaelias187]

It’s so interesting that the SE is doing this to you but the 8 does not. Everything I have read says they are the same exact screens. I wonder if it’s actually in the chip, and how it chooses to optimize colors on that display?

I still have occasional dry eyes using my SE, kind of a biting feeling around the edges if my eyeballs… but it’s not all the time now- sometimes I can sit down for an hour session and have no trouble, and others I notice something just when using it for a few moments.

I think dark mode is more gentle on my eyes, so I’ll try turning that on 100% of the time.

I also couldn’t tell if the 14 was a problem for my eyes when I played with it in the store yesterday. I may have to just buy one snd try it for a week to really see how it goes. I’d really miss the SE if the 14 was truly better on my eyes, but at this point I’ll be happy with whatever is the least bothersome on my eyes.

In confused myself anyway my iohone 11 is here so hopefully i can use that

 

[MICHAELSD]

More or less exactly what I expected would happen realistically, but I had higher hopes that there would be less sensitivity than iPhone 14 Pro Max:

I love the display quality and feel of iPhone 14, it’s really just a wonderful content consumption device and smartphone for the average user. Even Pro users might be surprised at how delightful the standard iPhones are in use. The lighter feel and aluminum are surprisingly premium. I might even like it more than iPhone 14 Pro Max. But the 60Hz rate, while less visibly pronounced, causes about as many PWM headaches and migraines as the low PWM rate implies. We need an Accessibility setting, or DC dimming… iPhone 14 is causing even more PWM sensitivity than I expected.

 

[DJTaurus]

More or less exactly what I expected would happen realistically, but I had higher hopes that there would be less sensitivity than iPhone 14 Pro Max:

I love the display quality and feel of iPhone 14, it’s really just a wonderful content consumption device and smartphone for the average user. Even Pro users might be surprised at how delightful the standard iPhones are in use. The lighter feel and aluminum are surprisingly premium. I might even like it more than iPhone 14 Pro Max. But the 60Hz rate, while less visibly pronounced, causes about as many PWM headaches and migraines as the low PWM rate implies. We need an Accessibility setting, or DC dimming… iPhone 14 is causing even more PWM sensitivity than I expected.

So are you going back at pro max ?

 

[DJTaurus]

Btw the color tint tip causes me dizziness on iPhone 11

 

[boswald]

Not with an iPhone, but when I had my Mac mini hooked up the monitor I used use to give me headaches. Not technically Apple's fault, I guess, but it didn't happen when I booted into Windows. Perhaps it's the font rendering combined with blue light?

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

Well, 14 PM take two. I might set it up tonight but not sure yet. The chiropractor has most of my head/neck pain solved so I am hoping if I experience issues that I can, if nothing else, determine it to be PWM and not just placebo.

 

[john g.]

View attachment 2112220
Well, 14 PM take two. I might set it up tonight but not sure yet. The chiropractor has most of my head/neck pain solved so I am hoping if I experience issues that I can, if nothing else, determine it to be PWM and not just placebo.

Good luck!

Out of curiosity, have you tried the regular 14 or 14+ yet? The pros have great cameras though!

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

Good luck!

Out of curiosity, have you tried the regular 14 or 14+ yet? The pros have great cameras though!

Thanks!! Not yet. I tried the 14 PM at launch and it wasn't terrible, but I was definitely experiencing some discomfort that likely was due to the phone but I am not 100% sure. I almost tried the regular 14 Pro instead because I am used to the 6.1" screen but caved at the last second. If this does not work, I will try the Pro next because camera is definitely most important to me in a phone. Third up would be the regular 14 Plus and last would be the 14 before I bow out for good this year. Two months to figure this out...

 

[MICHAELSD]

I feel satisfied with my iPhone SE, then I grab iPhone 14 and it’s like a whole other world.

I wanted to just initiate a return and not grow attached since I’m fairly certain I’ll just get headaches consistently for the next two months that won’t go away, but then I grabbed it and it’s a more enjoyable experience for using iOS. But yes I’m getting headaches even quicker than iPhone 14 Pro Max, before I’m even done typing this in fact, so I’d like to know more data about iPhone 14 Plus and iPhone 14 Pro before making another decision. But damn, I am surprised that I like iPhone 14 this much and also not—the base devices are usually the underdogs, and the candy bar form factor lends itself well to the aluminum build.