Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[Ph070]

Hi there i am currently using a s9 plus and dont have any isseus with with my eyes.
I didnt have any issues with the s8 either.
I do really like apple better i had 2 iPhone X one at release which gave me migraine and just gave me eye problems so i sold it.
I bought another like 6 months after the initial release, hoping it was just maybe improved after that but still had the same eye problems

I have heard its the same screens samsung uses for their Galaxys
but seeing as i dont have any problem with those phones i start to suspect the facial reconition system?

Ps sorry for my english

 

[bsmr]

Interested in, if the Xs also has the same PWM flicker like we've seen within the Xs Max post...

 

[ghsDUDE]

WOW! Thanks for posting this. There is our answer. This does not give me hope for future iPhones. Really hope the XR doesn't use PWM.

Is it even possible that the XR would use PWM?

 

[user1234]

Is it even possible that the XR would use PWM?

It’s technically possible but highly unlikely

 

[kerplunknet]

It’s technically possible but highly unlikely

It's more than just technically possible. PWM is used in LED displays all over. Many (or most) LED TVs use PWM. I'll be buying an iPhone 8 Plus if the iPhone XR uses PWM and hope that the 2019 iPhones go back to direct current.

 

[clef_]

Is this an issue that occurs within minutes or hours for people? Never heard about this

I wanted to preorder the Xs so I went to the Apple store to check out colors of the X last week. I left the store about 15 minutes later after playing around with the phone with eye pain so I googled the issue and found this forum post.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Hi there i am currently using a s9 plus and dont have any isseus with with my eyes.
I didnt have any issues with the s8 either.
I do really like apple better i had 2 iPhone X one at release which gave me migraine and just gave me eye problems so i sold it.
I bought another like 6 months after the initial release, hoping it was just maybe improved after that but still had the same eye problems

I have heard its the same screens samsung uses for their Galaxys
but seeing as i dont have any problem with those phones i start to suspect the facial reconition system?

Ps sorry for my english

It’s either the X’s specific PWM or FaceID, or a mixture of both. We’ll find out when iPhone XR is released, which has a LCD display which should have no PWM and FaceID.

 

[user1234]

It's more than just technically possible. PWM is used in LED displays all over. Many (or most) LED TVs use PWM. I'll be buying an iPhone 8 Plus if the iPhone XR uses PWM and hope that the 2019 iPhones go back to direct current.

Yes, a lot of LED backlights use PWM unfortunately. But it’s highly unlikely that Apple would go back to a PWM controlled LED backlight after ditching it years ago.

 

[matthijst]

Returning my XS Max and will get the XR in October.
Had eye strain last year with the X, figured I'd give it another go. And while the Max hasn't given me any eye issues so far, I also like the color/hue of my 8Plus LED better than the OLED screen on the XS (XR to yellow when using true tone).
So back it goes.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Returning my XS Max and will get the XR in October.
Had eye strain last year with the X, figured I'd give it another go. And while the Max hasn't given me any eye issues so far, I also like the color/hue of my 8Plus LED better than the OLED screen on the XS (XR to yellow when using true tone).
So back it goes.

But the downgrade in resolution will be noticeable on the XR compared with 8+

 

[now i see it]

The 8 Plus will be good for several years and is the best option for PWM sensitive people. Hopefully by then (several years from now) micro LED will be the new display tech.

 

[user1234]

The 8 Plus will be good for several years and is the best option for PWM sensitive people. Hopefully by then (several years from now) micro LED will be the new display tech.

You do realize that Micro-LED are constructed like OLED just that the LEDs aren’t made from organic materials? If nothing else changes they will have the same PWM issue as OLED displays do, unfortunately.

 

[now i see it]

Then I guess we're screwed

 

[kerplunknet]

PWM is not the only option for OLED.

 

[matthijst]

But the downgrade in resolution will be noticeable on the XR compared with 8+

Well, it's the same as iPhone 7, and higher than iPad Pro. So I think I'll be good. But if it is noticeable I may get a 8 Plus.

 

[kerplunknet]

Here is a summary of PWM and the Samsung (Apple) implementation of it for those who haven't read this:


What is PWM?

• Pulse Width modulation (PWM) is a way to control monitor brightness.
• When you lower the brightness, the light intensity of the backlight is not lowered, but instead turned off and on by the electronics with a fixed frequency.
• If this frequency is high enough (>2000hz), it is indistinguishable by the human eye.

Why is Samsung AMOLED using PWM?

• AMOLED can't be dimmed low enough (<40cd/m2) by just reducing voltage without noticeable image deterioration.
• This deterioration affects grayscale linearity, color temperature and shows another display issue called mura defects.
• Grayscale linearity and color temperature can be corrected to some extent by the display driver.
• But mura defects are basically small irregularities / deviations caused by the OLED production process and will become more visible with lesser voltage applied.
• PWM can prevent those issues by dimming the brightness with short on/off intervals instead of voltage dimming, thus the applied voltage can be high enough (~100cd/m2) to avoid optical deterioration and we still perceive a lower brightness.

What is the problem with PWM?

• PWM is not bad per se, it is the very low frequency of 240hz that Samsung chooses to implement.
• Some people that are very susceptible to flickering (often without knowing it), may notice eye strain, headache or even nausea (comparable with motion sickness).
• This is also the reason why almost all modern computer displays are assembled with a flickerfree backlight.

This is from https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-s8+/development/amoled-pwm-s8-t3716663

There are phones like the LG G Flex 2, for example, that use OLED displays without PWM.

 

[ooloo]

Is this an issue that occurs within minutes or hours for people? Never heard about this

the X gives me problems after 2-3 min of use. Friend of mine has it so i tried it again today and after 12 hrs i can still feel slight plain in my eyes. But soon after i try it i get hard pain in my eyes and in the forehead, i start to sweat cold and generaly feel veeery sick. Ive never had a phone with OLED so i cant tell if it's related only with iphones, doubt it is. i felt similar thing every time i would visit some stores that have bright LED as the main lights but those problems went away after 30-50 vizits. Maybe i could get used to OLEDs too but is it worth it? ...to feel as if im on a chemo-therapy? ...for how long?

XR it is. Not bad, but i wanted the XS

 

[user1234]

This is from https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-s8+/development/amoled-pwm-s8-t3716663

There are phones like the LG G Flex 2, for example, that use OLED displays without PWM.

I have heard of the G Flex 2 not using PWM, so I guess it’s possible, but LG hasen’t had the best quality OLED displays. I’m not sure how the G Flex 2 stacks up, but there must be a reason why almost all OLED displays use PWM, and you covered this already.

The thing is that LEDs aren’t properly dimmed by reducing the voltage, but rather by limiting the current. Thus the voltage stays high and these issues are mitigated. Doing this does not seem to be possible with OLED or any other LED array technology yet. Maybe it takes up too much space, or maybe it’s too slow. Or maybe it’s too expensive or difficult to manufacture to be practical yet. Before this happens, I don’t see high quality OLED or Micro LED being possible without PWM. It may be possible to significantly raise the frequency soon though.

I need to read up on how LG does it with the G Flex 2 though.

 

[TDDM]

Posted this in the other thread as well:

Just picked up my Max, I went to a nearby cafe and played with it for 10 mins, got some slight eye strain with 100% brightness. Gonna try messing with the settings and see if anything changed. It's really too bad, this phone is PERFECT. I have pretty big hands, so I love the 6.5 display. Perfect screen size, excellent resolution, everything I've wanted in an iPhone.

Except that stupid PWM

 

[piecookie]

If I experience this, can I return the phone even after the first 14 days of usage and get my money back?

 

[5105973]

If I experience this, can I return the phone even after the first 14 days of usage and get my money back?

I would not advice pushing your luck. I had difficulty returning my X even though I followed exactly what was posted on the official Apple web site regarding holiday returns. You should know within a few days.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Posted this in the other thread as well:

Just picked up my Max, I went to a nearby cafe and played with it for 10 mins, got some slight eye strain with 100% brightness. Gonna try messing with the settings and see if anything changed. It's really too bad, this phone is PERFECT. I have pretty big hands, so I love the 6.5 display. Perfect screen size, excellent resolution, everything I've wanted in an iPhone.

Except that stupid PWM

Have you tried disabling auto-brightness? Are there any new options in Accessibility under Display Accommodations?

 

[unobtainium]

If I experience this, can I return the phone even after the first 14 days of usage and get my money back?

To be safe I think you should test it extensive within the first two weeks and take it back (if necessary) before the return window has expired.

Crossing my fingers that I don’t have PWM sensitivity. Also concerned about long-term health effects of Face ID but I don’t think Apple will ever go back to Touch ID.

 

[AJAAY]

I don't want to be premature. Just picked up my XS Max, been using it for the past hour or so reinstalling apps, etc. Haven't really had any significant symptoms. So far so good. This is the first iPhone i've had were I cannot find any defect out of the box, literally no complaints about this phone.

 

[kerplunknet]

I’ve returned two iPhones and one MacBook Pro and the process was very quick and easy. Apple is great in that regard.