Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[5105973]

I’ve been using the Xs for a little over 24 hours (coming from a 6s) and I am definitely noticing eye strain. Even right now I’m going back and forth between the phone and an iPad, and when I look at the iPad it’s taking my eyes a little while to adjust back, almost like being out in the bright sun for a while and walking back in the house. Even looking at the phone it’s almost like my eyes never fully focus on the phone, it almost seems less sharp as weird as that sounds. I’ll give it a few more days then return it and probably go with the XR. Sucks because I wanted to like this phone and I know going forward it’s going to be OLED screens

No it doesn’t sound weird. When the flicker is bad enough it’s like you’re looking at subtly vibrating text.

Looking at my husband’s Max display does that too me. I have the same exact model but my display for some reason does not do that to me. I can look at the text and focus on it. There is some extremely slight detectable flicker of my display too, but it’s within my ability to tolerate. My 8 Plus is better of course. But I can do well enough on my Max display to use it and keep it. Had I gotten my husband’s Max and thought they all are the same, I would have returned it and decided to get the Xr.

The problem is I don’t know why the text on his screen jumps around so much and mine barely does.

I can say when I first got my Max I could not look at the display of text on this forum while scrolling. It made me feel a bit ill to do so. Now I can’t even tell a difference from using my 8 Plus.

It’s all very strange.
[doublepost=1537675908][/doublepost]

So some displays are made by Samsung while others are made by LG. All we need to find out is which ones are better and how to tell which one is which. Easy!

I thought LG wasn’t going to be making the displays for Apple until next year...????

 

[TDDM]

I can say when I first got my Max I could not look at the display of text on this forum while scrolling. It made me feel a bit ill to do so. Now I can’t even tell a difference from using my 8 Plus

How long do you usually use your phone for in a single sitting?

Are you getting any eye strain at all?

 

[5105973]

How long do you usually use your phone for in a single sitting?

Are you getting any eye strain at all?

Since I got it I’ve been on it for as long as an hour at a time. My usual time is 5-20 minutes in bursts through the day depending on what I’m doing. I’m only getting the usual eye fatigue I get even on my 8 Plus from looking at a screen. I’m not feeling the pwm eye strain which feels like I’ve got sand stuck under my eyelids and knock wood, so far I’m not having that weird issue of my vision starting to shimmy like I’m looking through a heat shimmer when I’m not looking at any screens.


~~~off on a tangent...
I have a 7 year old LCD computer monitor that really bothers my eyes. I hadn’t looked at it in a long time, but recently set up my home office with a desktop pc and needed that monitor again. I can’t look at that monitor for longer than 10 minutes without my eyes getting watery and uncomfortable. I had tried adjusting brightness and contrast and other settings to no avail. At least now I know why my eyes could not adjust to it. Unfortunately I’ll have to endure it until I can clear space in the budget for a new monitor.

 

[TDDM]

I’m only getting the usual eye fatigue I get even on my 8 Plus from looking at a screen. I’m not feeling the pwm eye strain which feels like I’ve got sand stuck under my eyelids and knock wood

Huh, that's odd. Hope it continues to be a non-issue for you though

Mind sharing your brightness/true tone/ night shift settings? I'm trying to run mine at 50% with no true tone, and I'm still getting some strain.

 

[user1234]

I know the screen and camera are worse, and the lack of 3D touch isn't great either.

I’m disappointed about the lack of 3D Touch, but the camera should be the same except the XR doesn’t have the telephoto camera. The wide angle camera should be identical though from what I have been informed, which is a good thing.

 

[odvan]

Well, it could be that Xr also has PWR, because LG G7 has it using the same screen technology. But at a higher rate - >1,000 Hz.

https://ledstrain.org/d/21-usable-smartphones/641

 

[piecookie]

I found this guide to be very helpful and I'm using this.

https://blog.elcomsoft.com/2018/03/...to-stop-oled-flickering-in-just-three-clicks/

It's not optimal, but it does in fact reduce the flicker.

 

[5105973]

Huh, that's odd. Hope it continues to be a non-issue for you though

Mind sharing your brightness/true tone/ night shift settings? I'm trying to run mine at 50% with no true tone, and I'm still getting some strain.

Brightness is on auto so it depends on ambient light. True Tone seems to not have any settings and on Night Shift I have the slider dead center because the screen is already warm due to True Tone.

Every time I look at my husband’s Max display the whole thing looks “twitchy”. I realize it’s not just the text that at appears to vibrate it’s the white background, too.

My Max display simply doesn’t look like that. I hate to say this and perhaps incite people down a path of buying and returning iPhones hoping for luck of the draw to get one that doesn’t give them eye strain or a migraine, but there must be some sort of small variance in calibration tolerances or something to account for this.

It’s just plain luck that when we got home and I grabbed one of the two identical 256 Gold XS Maxes, I happened to get one with a “tolerable” display. My husband let me compare the two phones so I could pick the display I liked best since he’s not picky. I liked the bright look of his display. It was very attractive just like the one on my old X had been. But like my X, it messed with my eyes immediately.

The one I had pulled out of the bag for myself wasn’t as bright even at the same brightness level. It was a hair warmer in tone. It’s hard to describe but it looks more subdued. But mine doesn’t hurt my eyes nor trigger my migraines.

True Tone on or off makes no difference.

I don’t know if everyone who is pwm sensitive can see the vibration or jitter that some of us can. If you can, that’s going to be enough to quickly let you know you’re not going to tolerate the display.

I saw some Max displays at the Apple Store that were beautiful and jitter free. It’s a shame people can’t just ask to buy a display model that looks good.

 

[kerplunknet]

Well, it could be that Xr also has PWR, because LG G7 has it using the same screen technology. But at a higher rate - >1,000 Hz.

https://ledstrain.org/d/21-usable-smartphones/641

This is exactly what I’ve been worried about. I don’t know why people are so confident that the XR will be PWM free.

 

[scotsmandc]

Turning on ‘reducing white point’ instantly relieved my eyes. The good part is it only take a triple click to the power button to toggle on off.

 

[AdamA9]

Ho

Turning on ‘reducing white point’ instantly relieved my eyes. The good part is it only take a triple click to the power button to toggle on off.

how do you do this?

 

[scotsmandc]

Ho

how do you do this?

Just search reduce in settings. It’s the first suggestion that pops up.

 

[Wig321]

I really want to know if the XR will be flicker free ASAP, so I can get an iPhone 8+ ordered

 

[kerplunknet]

I really want to know if the XR will be flicker free ASAP, so I can get an iPhone 8+ ordered

I think it will use PWM.

People only think that it won't because of past LCD models, but this new LCD model (iPhone XR) is of a new generation of iPhone and uses MLCD+. As others have mentioned, this technology is already being used in the LG G7 ThinQ (which has MUCH better specs than the iPhone XR btw, such as 564 PPI), and PWM is used there.

With the iPhone X* models, Apple has proven they are not afraid to use PWM in an iPhone.

So disappointing.

 

[5105973]

Turning on ‘reducing white point’ instantly relieved my eyes. The good part is it only take a triple click to the power button to toggle on off.

That does help cut glare. My “reduce white point” switch wasn’t toggled “on” though.

For some people glare may be as much of a problem on these bright OLEDs as flicker in inducing eye strain.

 

[Wig321]

I think it will use PWM.

People only think that it won't because of past LCD models, but this new LCD model (iPhone XR) is of a new generation of iPhone and uses MLCD+. As others have mentioned, this technology is already being used in the LG G7 ThinQ (which has MUCH better specs than the iPhone XR btw, such as 564 PPI), and PWM is used there.

With the iPhone X* models, Apple has proven they are not afraid to use PWM in an iPhone.

So disappointing.

I don’t want to give up the dual cameras and 3D Touch, and I still miss Touch ID.

So I’ve just ordered an 8+

 

[TDDM]

I think it will use PWM.

People only think that it won't because of past LCD models, but this new LCD model (iPhone XR) is of a new generation of iPhone and uses MLCD+. As others have mentioned, this technology is already being used in the LG G7 ThinQ (which has MUCH better specs than the iPhone XR btw, such as 564 PPI), and PWM is used there.

With the iPhone X* models, Apple has proven they are not afraid to use PWM in an iPhone.

So disappointing.

Back when we were all still trying to figure out what PWM was and if Apple would be able to address it (Late 2017/Early 2018), I called Apple and was able to talk to someone fairly high up (I'm assuming) about PWM. Long story short, nothing could be done about the PWM.

I called last week and talked to them again, and I asked if the XS/Max were any different than the X PWM-wise, and was told that the screens were the same in that regard. Apparently, Apple IS aware of the issue though.

Then, I specifically asked if the XR used PWM, and was told that it would not.

I have no reason to doubt this person, so until proven otherwise, I'm going to assume the XR will be PWM-free.

 

[AJTC]

So I’ve been using my X for a year. I was always quite prone to migraines and I’ve went on medication before to prevent them. In the past few years my migraines weren’t as frequent until I got the X.

I was aware of this thread and didn’t read too much into it because I thought it was just about eye strain.

But having suffered with migraines far more frequently this year (a few times per week, sometimes daily) I started reading these types of threads and I was shocked to learn it could be caused by my X and PWM. I’m also back on medication to prevent the migraines but it’s not working as well as previous times - maybe because I’m insisting my eyes stare at a PWM screen all the time.

I’m a bit torn about what to do since I love this phone and was planning to keep it for another year. So I’m going to try avoid using my X when I’m at home and use my iPad Pro as much as possible to see if my migraines occur less frequently.

If this ends up proving that my migraines are caused by the X I may sell it and get an XR even though I’ll miss the OLED screen and 3D Touch. I don’t mind losing one of the camera lenses as I’ve only used the telephoto lens a handful of times this year. It’s just a bit disappointing that this wasn’t resolved by the XS.

 

[5105973]

So I’ve been using my X for a year. I was always quite prone to migraines and I’ve went on medication before to prevent them. In the past few years my migraines weren’t as frequent until I got the X.

I was aware of this thread and didn’t read too much into it because I thought it was just about eye strain.

But having suffered with migraines far more frequently this year (a few times per week, sometimes daily) I started reading these types of threads and I was shocked to learn it could be caused by my X and PWM. I’m also back on medication to prevent the migraines but it’s not working as well as previous times - maybe because I’m insisting my eyes stare at a PWM screen all the time.

I’m a bit torn about what to do since I love this phone and was planning to keep it for another year. So I’m going to try avoid using my X when I’m at home and use my iPad Pro as much as possible to see if my migraines occur less frequently.

If this ends up proving that my migraines are caused by the X I may sell it and get an XR even though I’ll miss the OLED screen and 3D Touch. I don’t mind losing one of the camera lenses as I’ve only used the telephoto lens a handful of times this year. It’s just a bit disappointing that this wasn’t resolved by the XS.

Check out your lightbulbs, too. My daughter gets migraines triggered by some of the new lightbulbs stores use now. They must use them at the Apple Store because she couldn’t bear to stay in there while we were picking up our phones and watches. She doesn’t get headaches very often but she does suffer from optical migraines and certain patterns and lights can make her very dizzy and nauseous.

We had a bulb in a lamp at my house that I noticed appeared to flicker whenever I happened to look at it while my head was in motion. When it comes time to put up some of my LED string lights for the holidays they appear to flicker while in motion and almost trigger my migraine seizures. I have to look away while working with them.

In other words these triggers are all around us so just be aware and make sure you rule out the correct ones. Good luck!

 

[AJTC]

In other words these triggers are all around us so just be aware and make sure you rule out the correct ones. Good luck!

Thanks, I’ll try look out for these triggers too. I’ve just started to notice how much strain is on my eyes when using my X lately. Maybe it’s progressively getting worse for my eyes but the migraines have been pretty much consistent all year.

 

[user1234]

Back when we were all still trying to figure out what PWM was and if Apple would be able to address it (Late 2017/Early 2018), I called Apple and was able to talk to someone fairly high up (I'm assuming) about PWM. Long story short, nothing could be done about the PWM.

I called last week and talked to them again, and I asked if the XS/Max were any different than the X PWM-wise, and was told that the screens were the same in that regard. Apparently, Apple IS aware of the issue though.

Then, I specifically asked if the XR used PWM, and was told that it would not.

I have no reason to doubt this person, so until proven otherwise, I'm going to assume the XR will be PWM-free.

I’m building a sensor that will measure PWM frequency. I will test the XR when it arrives unless notebookcheck beats me to it. I want to be sure before the return window closes

 

[tonybarnaby]

I’ve had a dozen + amoled android phones and never experienced this, but I have a very minor case of it on my max. Is this potentially damaging to eyesight, or just a minor inconvenience when using it?

 

[TDDM]

I’ve had a dozen + amoled android phones and never experienced this, but I have a very minor case of it on my max. Is this potentially damaging to eyesight, or just a minor inconvenience when using it?

That's the thing, we unfortunately just really don't know. There's barely any info on PWM sensitivity out there, and as far as I know, no formal studies or anything.

That's odd though, you really had no issues with your other amoled phones? I wonder what makes the XS implementation different.

 

[tonybarnaby]

That's the thing, we unfortunately just really don't know. There's barely any info on PWM sensitivity out there, and as far as I know, no formal studies or anything.

That's odd though, you really had no issues with your other amoled phones? I wonder what makes the XS implementation different.

Nope. I have had every galaxy s phone besides the s5. Also had a one plus 3 and a Moto z play with amoled screens. Never experienced this before. The issue is very minor, but I’m worried about long term issues and how this will affect my eyes.

 

[AJAAY]

That's the thing, we unfortunately just really don't know. There's barely any info on PWM sensitivity out there, and as far as I know, no formal studies or anything.

That's odd though, you really had no issues with your other amoled phones? I wonder what makes the XS implementation different.

I think because the iPhone X series uses a low frequency of PWM. Which causes issues. Apparently the higher the frequency the better.