Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[and 4096 others like this]

Hello,

Next week I'm gonna get my first OLED phone - XS. So basically, if I turn brightness to 70-100% I will not be affected to this PWM thing? Cause I found different stories, some say it is noticeable below 25%, some say it is not possible to be affected by it under 70% of brightness.

:-(

 

[Absrnd]

Hello,

Next week I'm gonna get my first OLED phone - XS. So basically, if I turn brightness to 70-100% I will not be affected to this PWM thing? Cause I found different stories, some say it is noticeable below 25%, some say it is not possible to be affected by it under 70% of brightness.

:-(

First please use it as you normally do, then if you think you have any problems, only then try other settings.
don't get too scared about this fear mongering here, it is only a very small percentage that have "problems"

Blowing up small problems is where MacRumors excels at

 

[and 4096 others like this]

First please use it as you normally do, then if you think you have any problems, only then try other settings.
don't get too scared about this fear mongering here, it is only a very small percentage that have "problems"

Blowing up small problems is where MacRumors excels at

Well according to poll results, half of fellowship have noticed it :/

I know myself. I'm very susceptible to suggestions. I "regret" I came to this topic

 

[Absrnd]

I'm very susceptible to suggestions.

That is usually the main problem of this forum

 

[TDDM]

First please use it as you normally do, then if you think you have any problems, only then try other settings.
don't get too scared about this fear mongering here, it is only a very small percentage that have "problems"

Blowing up small problems is where MacRumors excels at

You're free to leave the thread and stop replying if you think we're all making it up. No one is trying to make this a "-gate issue" or blow it out of proportion, we're trying to figure out why certain people have issues with PWM and how to get around it.

 

[1369281]

I went to the Apple Store yesterday and played around with the iPhone XS. It was perfect. Perfect size, awesome display.

IF ONLY IT DIDN’T USE PWM!!!!!!!!!

So frustrating.

 

[user1234]

Yeah like buying a 1500,- ring and asking the maker to change the metal composition, because you are allergic to it

Or asking Apple to change the screen on the iPhone-X because 0.00001% has problems with it

You need to move that decimal point at least 5 steps to the right. Some argue 6.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

That is usually the main problem of this forum

Seriously? A typical reaction in this forum would be for the Apple apologists to come out in droves defending the phone, preaching to the sky how they are not experiencing the issue(s), you're using it wrong, etc. The fact that almost 43% who responded are experiencing this issue is quite telling. Sure, the numbers as a whole will be a small percentage. But you are coming off quite smug to those who are affected. It is enough that they cannot use the phone they would love to use due to something out of their control, without you continually reminding them what a minority they are.

 

[stafil]

Hello,

Next week I'm gonna get my first OLED phone - XS. So basically, if I turn brightness to 70-100% I will not be affected to this PWM thing? Cause I found different stories, some say it is noticeable below 25%, some say it is not possible to be affected by it under 70% of brightness.

:-(

Don’t worry, it’s only a very small percentage of people who get affected. Definitely lower than what’s represented in the poll. Just use it normally and don’t change anything unless you get headaches. And if you do, you are better off trying XR rather than playing with the settings.
[doublepost=1540301781][/doublepost]

Yeah like buying a 1500,- ring and asking the maker to change the metal composition, because you are allergic to it

Or asking Apple to change the screen on the iPhone-X because 0.00001% has problems with it

More like being bummed that you cannot buy that ring although you would love to.

Nothing bad about asking.

 

[karinatwork]

I should get my XR on Friday in the early afternoon. I will do some quick tests right away (filming the screen with super slowmo), which could confirm if there is flickering or not. I will post my findings here. Just like I did last time.

 

[Tijdelijk]

I hope it's not true..worse LCD as the 8 and 8 plus....
Found this:

it seems this LCD screen is lesser quality than older iphones: That’s not to say it matches the quality of previous iPhone LCDs. The iPhone XR LCD definitely shifts a little pink and drops brightness quickly when you look at it off-axis, which often leads to a bit of a shimmery effect when you move the phone around. I noticed that shimmer right away, but I had to point it out to other people for them to see it. (It’s one of those things you might not notice at first, but you can’t un-see it.) Apple told me the XR display should match previous iPhone LCDs in terms of performance, but side by side with an iPhone 8 Plus, the off-axis shifts are definitely more pronounced.

 

[TDDM]

I hope it's not true..worse LCD as the 8 and 8 plus....
Found this:

it seems this LCD screen is lesser quality than older iphones: That’s not to say it matches the quality of previous iPhone LCDs. The iPhone XR LCD definitely shifts a little pink and drops brightness quickly when you look at it off-axis, which often leads to a bit of a shimmery effect when you move the phone around. I noticed that shimmer right away, but I had to point it out to other people for them to see it. (It’s one of those things you might not notice at first, but you can’t un-see it.) Apple told me the XR display should match previous iPhone LCDs in terms of performance, but side by side with an iPhone 8 Plus, the off-axis shifts are definitely more pronounced.

I wouldn't worry about that too much. I haven't seen anyone else mention it, and it honestly doesn't look that bad in the example gif he gave.



Also, I've been reaching out to the people who put out their XR reviews today and asked if they'd be willing to do the slo-mo test, not a single one replied at all. Pretty frustrating.

 

[rnbarg]

First please use it as you normally do, then if you think you have any problems, only then try other settings.
don't get too scared about this fear mongering here, it is only a very small percentage that have "problems"

Blowing up small problems is where MacRumors excels at

Your comment is very dismissive of the posts here, many well-reasoned and honestly felt. Fear mongering is not very respectful and demonstrates a lack of empathy. Fear mongering, which is a derogatory concept, is most assuredly not happening here. This is also a huge thread. And tinkering with the settings such as brightness and white levels has proved unsatisfactory to most people including myself. People should go in w/an open mind, but if they are sensitive to glare and lighting, forewarned is forearmed as the saying goes. It is very appropriate for a prospective user to Google threads like this so they make an informed decision.

Apple is pretty much acknowledging the issue by waiving its normal 14 day return period for many customers.

And we don't know how many people out there kept the X, XS and XS Max and are soldiering thru the glare, PWM and other visual strain of the OLED screen they are experiencing w/out speaking up - a "silent minority" of users. Maybe some of them were embarrassed about finding it difficult to adjust such a great phone. How many of these users are getting headaches w/out realizing the cause. How many migraine sufferers and seeing auras and having more headaches oblivious to the cause. I have never seen a review of the XS Max by leading bloggers and news organizations, Tech Crunch etc. that make mention of this issue. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist though.

 

[karinatwork]

I found this on the NY Times:
Apple developed a new kind of LCD to improve color accuracy and squeeze the XR’s screen into the corners of the phone. The result is what Apple calls a Liquid Retina display, which looks better — brighter and more vibrant — than past iPhone LCD screens.

 

[rnbarg]

I wouldn't worry about that too much. I haven't seen anyone else mention it, and it honestly doesn't look that bad in the example gif he gave.



Also, I've been reaching out to the people who put out their XR reviews today and asked if they'd be willing to do the slo-mo test, not a single one replied at all. Pretty frustrating.

Not surprising at all. The leading reviewers are by and large honest and do a good critique of the XR but surfacing this issue is a bridge to far and not provable. It's reasonable yet speculative about the cause and the slo mo test doesn't really prove anything.

 

[Tijdelijk]

Not surprising at all. The leading reviewers are by and large honest and do a good critique of the XR but surfacing this issue is a bridge to far and not provable. It's reasonable yet speculative about the cause and the slo mo test doesn't really prove anything.

Well if the PWM is 240HZ for sure a slo mo will show you the PWM

 

[rnbarg]

I found this on the NY Times:
Apple developed a new kind of LCD to improve color accuracy and squeeze the XR’s screen into the corners of the phone. The result is what Apple calls a Liquid Retina display, which looks better — brighter and more vibrant — than past iPhone LCD screens.

I have read all the reviews that came out today from the top the tier news organizations.
The best XR reviews are M. Panzarino (tech crunch) and Daring Fireball. Panzario has some inside info from Apple, apparently, that the XR screen has twice as many LEDs and prior LCDs, something I hadn’t heard before.
The consensus of reviewers seems to be that the quality of the XR LCD is much closer to the XS than the 8/8 Plus. I worry that squeezing so much information into a smaller form factor than the 8 plus will result in much smaller text.

iPhone SE: 1.96" wide with 320 screen points = 163 points per inch (which is half of 326 ppi)

iPhone 6s: 2.3" wide with 375 screen points = 163 points per inch (which is half of 326 ppi)

iPhone 8+: 2.7" wide with 414 screen points = 153 points per inch

iPhone XR: 2.54" wide with 414 screen points = 163 points per inch (which is half of 326 ppi)

iPhone XS: 2.45" wide with 375 screen points = 153 points per inch (which is one-third of 458 ppi)

iPhone Max: 2.71" wide with 414 screen points = 153 points per inch (which is one-third of 458 ppi)



The lower the points per inch, the larger the font size.



However, all of the above phones except the SE and XS can use Zoomed Display mode. If you use this:



iPhone SE: (Zoomed Display mode not supported)

iPhone 6s: 2.3" wide with 320 screen points = 139 points per inch <-- This turns it into a giant iPhone SE.

iPhone 8+: 2.7" wide with 375 screen points = 139 points per inch <-- This turns it into a giant iPhone 8.

iPhone XR: 2.54" wide with 375 screen points = 148 points per inch <-- This is the odd one out.

iPhone XS: (Zoomed Display mode not supported)

iPhone Max: 2.71" wide with 375 screen points = 139 points per inch <-- This turns it into a giant iPhone XS.



So, for people with bad eyesight, the best setup to use is Zoomed Display mode on the Plus or Max. The XR is an interesting compromise though, since it can use Zoomed Display mode, but with smaller fonts. However, XR in Zoomed Display mode still has bigger fonts than all other iPhones in Standard Display mode including the XS, while displaying the same amount of information as the XS.



IOW, XR with Zoomed Display mode turns it into a big XS, but not a giant XS. To get the giant XS as indicated above, you need a Max with Zoomed Display mode.
[doublepost=1540317098][/doublepost]

Well if the PWM is 240HZ for sure a slo mo will show you the PWM

Yes, but this doesn't prove that PWM is causing the eyestrain. It certainly good anecdotal evidence and may have been validated in other contexts, but you would need a scientific study with appropriate controls to prove that PWM is the definitive cause of eyestrain for users of the X/XS. Also the reviewers probably don't want to go out on a limb.

 

[sddabrow]

Has any one seen a review yet on the PWM on the XR? Held off on ordering one as I was waiting to see the Eye Strain issues... was hoping I wouldn't have to wait until Friday. Haven't seen any of the reviewers mention it.

Yes, I am impatient

 

[karinatwork]

Nothing yet. I promised my iPhone 8 to my son, and he will be more disappointed than me if the XR will not work out for me after all.

 

[and 4096 others like this]

Not surprising at all. The leading reviewers are by and large honest and do a good critique of the XR but surfacing this issue is a bridge to far and not provable. It's reasonable yet speculative about the cause and the slo mo test doesn't really prove anything.

Hi, do you know if brightness at level 70-100% cause less headaches/is less noticeable for human eye? Is there any connection in PWM + Brightness level?

 

[Squeak825]

IAlso, I've been reaching out to the people who put out their XR reviews today and asked if they'd be willing to do the slo-mo test, not a single one replied at all. Pretty frustrating.

They most likely are still on an embargo on what they can share, or respond to until after official launch.

 

[sddabrow]

Nothing yet. I promised my iPhone 8 to my son, and he will be more disappointed than me if the XR will not work out for me after all.

Have a note on Twitter to a reviewer who actually has an XR and responds to folks. He will test PWM this evening - His Twitter handler is @Reckful

 

[neil74]

If the Xr has pwm it’s a good bet that the frequency will be so high as to make it a non-issue.

As others have said we have no proof that pwm is causing the strain. Millions of OLED droids out there and apparently no issue with those.

 

[Tijdelijk]

If the Xr has pwm it’s a good bet that the frequency will be so high as to make it a non-issue.

As others have said we have no proof that pwm is causing the strain. Millions of OLED droids out there and apparently no issue with those.

Then maybe maybe it's Face ID...

 

[rnbarg]

They most likely are still on an embargo on what they can share, or respond to until after official launch.

The embargo is obviously over. That’s what it means to publish the article. Of course those who wrote the reviews can respond to comments in any which way they desire.
[doublepost=1540325242][/doublepost]This post was from another thread. I would place it in the category of “my lyin’ eyes” because my subjective experience has been the just the opposite. Click on the link below “this report”.


There was this report:
Researchers from Tsing-Hua University have found that Apple’s latest iPhone XS, XS Max’s OLED display this year are healthier for your eyes than the LCD-based displays found in previous iPhone models. The study compared two metrics between an iPhone 7 with an LCD display and the latest iPhone XS Max with 6.5-inch OLED display.
[doublepost=1540325365][/doublepost]

The embargo is obviously over. That’s what it means to publish the article. Of course those who wrote the reviews can respond to comments in any which way they desire.
[doublepost=1540325242][/doublepost]This post was from another thread. I would place it in the category of “my lyin’ eyes” because my subjective experience has been the just the opposite. Click on the link below “this report”.


There was this report:
Researchers from Tsing-Hua University have found that Apple’s latest iPhone XS, XS Max’s OLED display this year are healthier for your eyes than the LCD-based displays found in previous iPhone models. The study compared two metrics between an iPhone 7 with an LCD display and the latest iPhone XS Max with 6.5-inch OLED display.

Strange they used the iPhone 7 for comparison which does not have Truetone vs the 8 that does. Also many users enable “Night Shift” which may upend the above “findings” somewhat.