iPhone X FaceID and eye safety

[gaanee]

The point is with those IR sources you are exposed to, you normally don't look directly at the source.. so it's much more diffused than staring st the FaceID.
I am not against FaceID but I would like to see some testing data on the effects of IR, PWM have on your eyes if at all after repeatedly using it tens of time a day. If it turns out to be no having significant effects then well and good for all of us. But right now, the argument it being safe is based on assumptions without any scientific data.
I don't see any drawback in doing such a study.

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If there was some scientific basis for this being potentially dangerous, then they would be expected to. FaceID bathes your face in IR light, but your face is always being bathed in IR light at much higher intensities, especially if you go outside, or have ever been in a room with an incandescent light globe. Same goes for PWM. CRT screens flash at comparatively low frequencies, and have been used around the world, every day for hours, by many people. They have recently been replaced, but not for safety reasons. Fluorescent lights flash at very high frequencies, and again are around us for hours and hours every day. If there was some legitimate reason as to why PWM screens and FaceID were different to these other technologies which have been proven safe through the test of time, then fine, investigate away. But they haven't.



The difference is that x-rays have a clear scientific basis for being damaging. They can damage DNA, and that damage will accumulate. There is no such link for low intensity IR or PWM.



By far the most logical answer is 'nocebo'. There is no harm in a covertly conducted, independent study into the health effects. However there is harm in conducting a public 'trial-by-opinion', like is happening now. It will set back safe, technological progress, and will colour any potential future independent studies, as people will have difficulty staying impartial.
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[SuzyG]

I have been made very ill by whatever the FaceID frequency is. I am now oddly sensitive to all electromagnetic waves. I can no longer look at screens for an extended period of time. After I returned my iPhone 11 Pro for an 8, as soon as it boot led up I could see/sense the IR radar-like floodlight. I believe it’s in all new Apple screens, hence the inability to have them repaired anywhere else.

People can SEE infrared light and the arguments of people claiming that you can’t as well as ‘if you can’t see it how can it hurt you’ are alarming and frustrating. I can see it and whatever frequency it is at has seriously messed up how my body interprets electromagnetic signals of all kinds: household appliances, cell phone radiation, electric wires, even signals from people.

Most people will claim I am somehow crazy. I was fine, though considered ‘sensitive’, before. The only tech I use is an iPhone (since 2008) and am iPad mini. I do not own a TV. Just a turntable and wired speakers and receiver. I am concerned- a medical doctor does not measure the effects of frequency on your body.

I am hoping someone else might be ab,e to help me find the frequency of the IR light. Apple vehemently denied it was always on and said it is a hardware issue. I don’t think so...

 

[537635]

Most people will claim I am somehow crazy.

TL;DR shouldn't be in the middle of the post.

As for the frequency of the IR light, it is:

IR illuminator 322 THz (terahertz)
IR dot projector 319 THz (terahertz)

They are not always on, see below:

FaceID analysis

OP here. It's been quite a while, so I hope it's OK to resurrect this thread. Some more data follows. I've identified three distinct modes of operation, while the phone is in normal operation mode (faceID, aware feature ON). 1. Unlock sequence. As soon as the phone wakes up, illuminator fires...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[5105973]

I have been made very ill by whatever the FaceID frequency is. I am now oddly sensitive to all electromagnetic waves. I can no longer look at screens for an extended period of time. After I returned my iPhone 11 Pro for an 8, as soon as it boot led up I could see/sense the IR radar-like floodlight. I believe it’s in all new Apple screens, hence the inability to have them repaired anywhere else.

People can SEE infrared light and the arguments of people claiming that you can’t as well as ‘if you can’t see it how can it hurt you’ are alarming and frustrating. I can see it and whatever frequency it is at has seriously messed up how my body interprets electromagnetic signals of all kinds: household appliances, cell phone radiation, electric wires, even signals from people.

Most people will claim I am somehow crazy. I was fine, though considered ‘sensitive’, before. The only tech I use is an iPhone (since 2008) and am iPad mini. I do not own a TV. Just a turntable and wired speakers and receiver. I am concerned- a medical doctor does not measure the effects of frequency on your body.

I am hoping someone else might be ab,e to help me find the frequency of the IR light. Apple vehemently denied it was always on and said it is a hardware issue. I don’t think so...

I was able to see the beam from my Samsung iris scanner. I am not sure if it was supposed to be visible or not. I used to get searing pain from it that got cumulatively worse after only a few uses. My husband who is usually not sensitive to such things also got pain from the iris scanner. Samsung has omitted it from current models. I wonder if they discovered something about it.

I definitely can feel my eyes aching and getting gritty if I use the iPhone scanner to make Animoji. So I don’t use it for that anymore. I use it for Face ID and seem okay with it.

I have read of people being extremely sensitive to EM radiation. I have suffered with many kinds of autoimmune disease and the science on that is sparse so I know what it’s like to try and get help for debilitating symptoms and be treated like you’re nuts. And then finally you find medical professionals who have cutting edge knowledge and they finally vindicate you by saying “yes, you really are sick and this is what’s going on.” That is just starting to happen slowly for people with autoimmune disease. It’s been something gradually taking place the last 25 years as new studies take place and finally we have data we didn’t have before.

Unfortunately that’s a cycle we will have to repeat with diseases caused by new technologies. Meanwhile you’re stuck in the “It’s all in your head, there’s nothing the matter with you” phase.

That’s not to say you’re right in every aspect of your suspicions about what may be causing your health problems. Nor is it to say you’re wrong. It’s the case that we need so much more data to know what really is affecting your health.

The IR emitters however aren’t in the screens, exactly. They are distinct modules at the top of the notched part of the display.

The display itself can cause problems in the way that the pixels are turned off and on to dim the screen. This pattern can cause havoc with people’s nervous systems. Resulting mainly in migraines.

 

[CoronaOnTap]

After I returned my iPhone 11 Pro for an 8, as soon as it boot led up I could see/sense the IR radar-like floodlight. I believe it’s in all new Apple screens, hence the inability to have them repaired anywhere else.

Unless I'm lagging in science your assumptions are wrong on so many levels. Displays don't emit IR. They light up the pixels and is in the visible spectrum of the EM waves while IR exist past the visible spectrum hence invisible to the human eye. The IR used for Face ID in the newer iPhones come from the emitters in the notch area which don't exist in the iPhones prior to the iPhone X.
If you're bothered by an iPhone 8 the same way you did with the iPhone 11 Pro then I'm willing to bet that your problem isn't the IR like you believe but something else.

 

[jm31828]

I was able to see the beam from my Samsung iris scanner. I am not sure if it was supposed to be visible or not. I used to get searing pain from it that got cumulatively worse after only a few uses. My husband who is usually not sensitive to such things also got pain from the iris scanner. Samsung has omitted it from current models. I wonder if they discovered something about it.

I definitely can feel my eyes aching and getting gritty if I use the iPhone scanner to make Animoji. So I don’t use it for that anymore. I use it for Face ID and seem okay with it.

I have read of people being extremely sensitive to EM radiation. I have suffered with many kinds of autoimmune disease and the science on that is sparse so I know what it’s like to try and get help for debilitating symptoms and be treated like you’re nuts. And then finally you find medical professionals who have cutting edge knowledge and they finally vindicate you by saying “yes, you really are sick and this is what’s going on.” That is just starting to happen slowly for people with autoimmune disease. It’s been something gradually taking place the last 25 years as new studies take place and finally we have data we didn’t have before.

Unfortunately that’s a cycle we will have to repeat with diseases caused by new technologies. Meanwhile you’re stuck in the “It’s all in your head, there’s nothing the matter with you” phase.

That’s not to say you’re right in every aspect of your suspicions about what may be causing your health problems. Nor is it to say you’re wrong. It’s the case that we need so much more data to know what really is affecting your health.

The IR emitters however aren’t in the screens, exactly. They are distinct modules at the top of the notched part of the display.

The display itself can cause problems in the way that the pixels are turned off and on to dim the screen. This pattern can cause havoc with people’s nervous systems. Resulting mainly in migraines.

The last portion you mention about dimming the display is pwm- and only the oled screen models have it. That doesn’t happen with iPhones with lcd displays, such as the non pro 11.

 

[revmacian]

The internet is flooding with research proving that IR is harmful to the eye.

Correct, IR rays can be harmful to humans.. if received in sufficient quantities. The problem is that many people see the "IR rays can be harmful to humans" bit and run with it. Humans need water, but water can be dangerous in sufficient quantities. Humans cannot survive without oxygen, but oxygen can be dangerous in sufficient quantities. Just about anything can be harmful in elevated quantities.

Does the iPhone emit IR in quantities sufficient enough to cause permanent damage? I highly doubt it. The US government loves to control people and they would have slapped Apple by now if the iPhone emitted harmful doses of infrared waves.

 

[I7guy]

The proximity sensors also emits IR, this could be a source of issues to those sensitive to certain combinations of light frequencies.

 

[jm31828]

The proximity sensors also emits IR, this could be a source of issues to those sensitive to certain combinations of light frequencies.

But that can mostly be turned off but turning off Face ID and awareness features.

 

[I7guy]

But that can mostly be turned off but turning off Face ID and awareness features.

Can’t turn off the proximity sensor.

 

[jm31828]

Can’t turn off the proximity sensor.

I read that doesn’t come on when those options are all turned off- is that not true?

 

[I7guy]

I read that doesn’t come on when those options are all turned off- is that not true?

Proximity sensor turns off the phone during a phone call when the phone is held close to the face. It can’t do that If it’s taped up or off.

 

[HEK]

Can’t turn off the proximity sensor.

Cover with black electrical tape. If problem still persists then it’s not due to IR. Not proposing to use the phone taped up for ever. But as a test to isolate the sensitivity problem.

 

[FlippyGonnaSnap]

Simply lying back and enjoying the sun by the pool will do a billion times the damage the damage of Face ID and still does nothing.

Enjoy life, for all you know you could trip on the sidewalk tomorrow, fall in to the road and get hit by a bus.

 

[cdcastillo]

The people that claim they have sensitivity to electromagnetic energy from home appliances and smartphones are in the same category with the people that hear voices that are not there: they are convinced the voices/EM sensitivity are real, and nothing you explain to them can change their minds, because they "feel it".

So, it is a waste of time trying to reason with them before they accept it is only in their head.

 

[bbrks]

And as soon as they figure it out, they need to visit their local shrink, otherwise it will be to late

 

[SuzyG]

Hello. I’m not incapacitated - I now have super senses to electromagnetic waves. A nice way to be crazy: I can see the energy around people, my friend now think I am a mind reader...as well as the amount of radioactivity the phones give off. You are right - it s not the IR light; which is super annoying and invasive and visible (Apple website now says as much) but you’re all ignorant enough to defend your precious ‘security’ feature. ALWAYS on is wrong, yes. ON ALMOST ALL THE TIME. Whatever. It is astonishing how many people believe the radiation reports from the tech companies to be reliable. We are the guinea pigs on untested technology.

I was affected by the radiation from my iPhone 7 (and mini and iPad and devious iPhones). Something with the new iPhone made me more sensitive. The radiation from these devices is pretty significant. The Chicago Tribune did an investigation and there are already states suing and class action lawsuits. I am not a sickly person, I do not have any symptoms unless I use a phone for too long. And life is significantly better with significantly less phone usage. I am living real life, you’re staring at radioactive screens.

I’m not crazy, but some of you might be. Hand your kid some radioactive candy?

Have a nice day. I’m outside enjoying life, no phone required.

 

[Cobalt50]

Sure light can hurt you. Haven't you guys ever seen a vampire movie?

 

[DeanL]

Setting the phone to max brightness would be more dangerous for your eyes, as you can actually perceive visible light...

Perceived light is not a factor. Don't believe me? Take the Verizon FiOS fiber cable and look at it for 10-25 minutes then go get an eye test done

 

[CoronaOnTap]

I am living real life, you’re staring at radioactive screens.

I’m not crazy, but some of you might be. Hand your kid some radioactive candy?

Have a nice day. I’m outside enjoying life, no phone required.

If you’re comparing a device that billions of people use for hours everyday to a nuclear reactor then I can safely say that everyone who believes otherwise is not crazy.

 

[Painter2002]

Hello. I’m not incapacitated - I now have super senses to electromagnetic waves. A nice way to be crazy: I can see the energy around people, my friend now think I am a mind reader...as well as the amount of radioactivity the phones give off. You are right - it s not the IR light; which is super annoying and invasive and visible (Apple website now says as much) but you’re all ignorant enough to defend your precious ‘security’ feature. ALWAYS on is wrong, yes. ON ALMOST ALL THE TIME. Whatever. It is astonishing how many people believe the radiation reports from the tech companies to be reliable. We are the guinea pigs on untested technology.

I was affected by the radiation from my iPhone 7 (and mini and iPad and devious iPhones). Something with the new iPhone made me more sensitive. The radiation from these devices is pretty significant. The Chicago Tribune did an investigation and there are already states suing and class action lawsuits. I am not a sickly person, I do not have any symptoms unless I use a phone for too long. And life is significantly better with significantly less phone usage. I am living real life, you’re staring at radioactive screens.

I’m not crazy, but some of you might be. Hand your kid some radioactive candy?

Have a nice day. I’m outside enjoying life, no phone required.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of a device are you typing your reply on? Most any computer or phone or tablet emits radiation to a lesser or greater degree.

Are we guinea pigs in a massive scientific experiment? Sure, but so we are with every single other aspect of our lives. Diet, lifestyle, activity level, technology, medicine, and dentristry are always ever evolving, with people saying one thing is safe or ideal, only for it to change and be said that they were wrong.

And I’m not saying you can’t be sensitive to radio frequencies orcertain wave lengths of light, that’s possible. But saying you can see energy flowing off people only makes your beliefs harder for others to take seriously, unless you have mythical abilities that have never existed (except in movies and video games). If you want people to take you seriously, stick to hard facts that are proven. Just a little friendly advice.

Finally, some people live life, and some people shelter themselves away from the rest of the world, saying they are protecting themselves from the dangers of the world. Be careful not to fall into that group, it’s isolating and not a good way to live. The key to life is to strike balance with everything, the good and bad in life. Everything in moderation.

 

[alFR]

Hello. I’m not incapacitated - I now have super senses to electromagnetic waves. A nice way to be crazy: I can see the energy around people, my friend now think I am a mind reader...as well as the amount of radioactivity the phones give off.

No, you can't. It's impossible: the proteins in the cells at the back of your eye that convert light into nerve impulses aren't sensitive to EM waves outside the visible spectrum (that is, oddly enough, why it's called the visible spectrum). Phones don't give off radioactivity (that is, they don't emit alpha or beta particles or gamma rays, at least not at a level any higher than the natural background radiation that's everywhere): even if they did, humans can't see any of those things (reason as above). They do emit radio waves (well, unless they're in airplane mode I guess), but human eyes can't see those either (reason as above).

re: the IR emitter - if you've ever looked at a fire for a couple of minutes your eyes have been exposed to more IR than they will ever be from the IR emitter on an iPhone, so given that there aren't many reports of people going blind after sitting round a campfire for the evening I'm pretty sure the IR emitter on the phone is safe.

If you're happier without using a phone, that's great: everyone should do what suits them. However, that doesn't make any of the things you're claiming about being able to see auras or radioactivity true.